Are damage shields still too much?

Galalin

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Maulkin

Galalin wrote: »

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 2am cst

Are you blind? He's on PTS wearing standard PTS issue gear, the ophidian set.

If you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. Go ahead and make that Sorc video, bolt escaping in combat for >5mins. Let's see how that works for you.

Galalin

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 2am cst

Are you blind? He's on PTS wearing standard PTS issue gear, the ophidian set.

If you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. Go ahead and make that Sorc video, bolt escaping in combat for >5mins. Let's see how that works for you.

Actually i don't have to watch Ezareth's video of PvP

Maulkin

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 2am cst

Are you blind? He's on PTS wearing standard PTS issue gear, the ophidian set.

If you talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. Go ahead and make that Sorc video, bolt escaping in combat for >5mins. Let's see how that works for you.

Actually i don't have to watch Ezareth's video of PvP

Ah cool, even easier then. Point me to the time in any of his videos where he bolt escapes for 5 minutes straight then. It shouldn't be a problem, right?

Galalin

Bolt escape and fighting... sheliza vs Ezareth.

Joy_Division

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I've seem some pretty damn skillful melee players, some of them I consider more skilled than myself .

That said, I don't see any of those people in here complaining about damage shields.

That should tell you something.

Because most people who use something which is effective for them won't come here to complain about it, unlike me and few exceptions. I do stack shields and I think that it is ridiculously overpowered just like dodge rolling is for stamina users. It is way too hard to kill someone who stack shield or is spec to roll dodge 20times in a row and the thing is, they can still deal high dps. This is a problem and it will get even worse as people accumulate champion points.

This is correct and it would be in the best interest of the game if we stop trying to cling onto the specific aspects of the game that make our builds strong that are the result of an unhealthy general trend.

Galalin

Btw mike its kinda funny how some guy calls me a noob and i call him out then you jump in to defend him to stroke your epeen as your one of the better duelers in legends if im thinking of the right person...its funny he can't fight his own battles but atleast i do.. i will definately oblige i don't claim to be the best as my title as DK SCRUB states but i hold my own and if you doubt it ask Ezareth... win or lose lets do this.

DK SCRUB OUT

frozywozy

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

I don't think the problem is ressources management. The problem is that people who focus on ressources management are still very tanky regardless of the points invested into it.

In my opinion, the shield abilities should have their damage shield largely reduced. Then you should have to spend several champion points or gear bonus to increase the size of those shields. Points and gear that would not be spent in ressources management otherwise.

If you wanna last forever into a fight, you should be ready to die from people who haven't invested that much in ressources management but in damage so they can go through your weak shields. If you find the way to resist their burst by kiting and such, you get the advantage of the battle because you have more ressources.

But right now, someone spending everything in ressources management using a combination of two shields can just tank the damage forever with pots. The only way you will kill that person in a duel is to get him when he will do a mistake and forget to re-cast those shields. But if that person stands in place doing nothing but casting shields and kitting, you will never kill him. On the other hand, he will still deal considerable damage.

Maulkin

I'm not defending anyone, nor am I epeening, I'm simply exposing the flaw in your logic. You talk of unbelievable Sorc sustain using anecdotal evidence when there's evidence right in front of you of not only similar but better sustain on damage mitigation by stamina NBs.

You've got me confused with someone else. As my sig suggests I'm in EU not NA. I consider myself a decent duellist but certainly not top-end, there are many better than me. I'll happily give you a fight on PTS over the weekend if you want though, I never back away from a challenge win or lose

Maulkin

Galalin wrote: »

Bolt escape and fighting... sheliza vs Ezareth.

I don't think there's much more to talk to you about. You're either extremely biased to the point of blindness or you are trolling.

The only straight Bolt Escape part in that video starts at 1:27 and ends at 1:47 (20" later) when Ez runs out of magicka from Bolt Escaping.

He made a video with PTS gear where he is dodge-rolling for 5 freaking minutes, in combat, and his stamina never drops below 50%.

Vis

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I've seem some pretty damn skillful melee players, some of them I consider more skilled than myself .

That said, I don't see any of those people in here complaining about damage shields.

That should tell you something.

Because most people who use something which is effective for them won't come here to complain about it, unlike me and few exceptions. I do stack shields and I think that it is ridiculously overpowered just like dodge rolling is for stamina users. It is way too hard to kill someone who stack shield or is spec to roll dodge 20times in a row and the thing is, they can still deal high dps. This is a problem and it will get even worse as people accumulate champion points.

Stacking shields for me is absolutely necessary because damage is off the charts right now. Until they nerf damage across the board further, any additional reduction to damage shields in any way shape or form would absolutely wreck sorcs. They'd have to double the armor provided by Light armor right now.

Your under the impression that damage shields are OP probably because you're wearing medium or heavy armor and already have an extremely tank class. Bolt escape doesn't really give us much survivability when you have people that can run about as fast as us while shooting arrows from 50 freaking yards away

I used to be damn near unkillable by 3 people in 1.5 with shield stacking, in 1.6 even though I'm fully specialized into maxing my damage shields I die literally 10 times more than I ever have.

People saying I need to put more points into health or better armor are wrong. I'm wearing 2 reinforced heavy pieces and a reinforced shield with 12,000 armor. It doesn't matter, under the right circumstances I get instagibbed regardless of having shields active or not.

I'm not defending damage shields because I want to be "OP", I'm defending them because if they become any less powerful my deaths are going to skyrocket even further.

And on the champion point scaling, damage scales far higher and faster than the growth of damage shields so the more champion points people get, the less power damage shields become.

There is so much BS in this post i don't know where to start... you completely contradict yourself in another thread. Im not even commenting in these threads anymore... i will just wait for them to nerf it as its going to happen and we all know why... it needs it. Not massively but ffs really? Recastable shields that stack over 40k lets do the math here say even 20k HP thats now a 60k Hp pool recastable in light armor (your 2whole pieces of heavy mean ***) thats more than any tank in the game and deal stupid amounts of damage. this is getting to be a joke. I get your defending against a nerf but cmon already clearly you can see it needs even a minor adjustment here.

DK SCRUB OUT

You don't know where to start because you'd be wrong.

I'm working on the video. You'll see it from my side soon. Recastable 40K shields? lol. I get a recastable 14K shields you mean. If they're hitting my health I'm already dead. I have 16K HPs. The big difference is I'm a skilled player. The nerfs you're crying for are going to completely wreck the other 95%+ sorcs out there who don't know how to squeeze every drop of utility and survivability out of their class and build.

Do you know who my easiest kills are right now? Templars, and then Sorcs, Nightblades, and DKs. I 2 shot most sorcs I go up against and the only thing that ever saves them are those who are running ball of lightning and know how to use it properly (which is pretty rare still).

So your saying your shields don't stack almost 40k? Or did you need me to copy paste it from the other thread where you stated that?
Your also saying they should leave it as is because 95% of sorcs dont know how to play? Thats not a reason.
Having a larger hp pool than any tank and restackable shields to 40k leaving a hp pool of say conservatively 50-60k is ok while hitting overload light attack for 14k?

As far as if they are hitting your health you are dead... thats your choice to play with no hp and welcome to the rest of the ppl who dont play a shield stacking build.

I don't even know what to say to this

It is possible to have far more than 40K in shields you could probably get up to a 65K stack using ever shield ability in the game at their maximum potential. The key word that you're using is "recastable". Recastable shields I have 14K (against physical) which as I said is 80% of the game right now. We've already went over that most of the good sorcs aren't running with harness/dampen anyways. Yes if you're knocked below 30% health and not outright killed you can cast a single healing ward for 16K. You can also cast a hardened was for 10K. In practice it is never like that and it is rare that you drop that low in health and survive.

It seems you're being intentionally dense or obtuse in order to further your argument.

Yes you must be right... i am the only one that sees an issue with this... we are all stupid and Ezareth is enlightening us... give me a break. You think 15 threads on the same topic and something might not need a small adjustment? Im not saying take shields away im saying HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT SEE SOME ADJUSTMENTS ARE NEEDED?

Your one of the best sorcs in the game i know that and have seen it... but cmon now

DK SCRUB OUT

Just because there are more whining baddies in game does not really change any legitimacy. Remember the definition of democracy? Two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Just because these same baddies like to spam open new threads even though their idiocy has been disproven in past threads, does not make the nerf criers any more right. But luckily for us, ZOS has metrics the l2p crowd cannot hyperbole over.

So now im a baddie? Do you remember the definition of free speech? I have my opinion you have yours... nice double standard though.

What has been disproven? Any bets shields will get a nerf? I have played games long enough to see it coming... just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. Should we maybe look at some of your past nerf crier posts? Does that make you a baddie too?

And im not crying about it because ZoS will adjust it... you guys act like im asking for them to take them out of the game... a small adjust would be adequate they are a little OP atm no matter if its because of gear, CP, resource pools or the shields themselves.

DK SCRUB OUT

Yes. Go back and look at how many nerfs I have asked for over the past year. (mind you bug fixes are not nerf requests).

I really don't have to worry about ZOS does. I always adapt and win. Sadly that philosophy does not apply to everyone.

Vis

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Accidental double post.

Vis

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

Vis

Galalin wrote: »

ts funny he can't fight his own battles but atleast i do.. i will definately oblige i don't claim to be the best as my title as DK SCRUB states but i hold my own and if you doubt it ask Ezareth... win or lose lets do this.

DK SCRUB OUT

Seems like epeen to me.

Galalin

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

Im not arguing that dodge roll may or may not need looked at but that for another thread.

So you think damage being mitigated before its applied to the shield is ok? See let me put it in your logic... i call that a bug uet you call it crying for a nerf... you see what im getting at here.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

Magus

Dodge roll and stamina build is still stronger than shield stacking sorc, main difference is that sorc can usually get away when they overwhelmed by numbers where the stam roller will usually die after 10 people jump on him. The sorc has a chance to survive being focused down and get away from the numbers, but this usually isn't the case. If you have 3 NBs time their ambush while someone else times their soul assault you will die, regardless of any current shield stacking. With the roll dodge, it's a little trickier to focus down but still a numbers game, and if the sorc is smart and isn't surprised then he should run away if he wants to live. There is no sorc that will stand there spamming shields to troll you so you can't kill him. Also, any magicka spent on the shields and surviving is time that the sorc is not attacking.

I play both sorc and DK at VR14, there are counters to each that make them easy to kill. I would suggest if you are having trouble killing one, play the class to get a better understanding of the mechanics so you can build in the counters.

Vis

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

Im not arguing that dodge roll may or may not need looked at but that for another thread.

So you think damage being mitigated before its applied to the shield is ok? See let me put it in your logic... i call that a bug uet you call it crying for a nerf... you see what im getting at here.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

If that is true, it means damage modifiers are being applied too. Would you prefer no guild or racial damage increasers work?

Magus

I will also add that balancing should not be based around 1v1 dueling. You can make builds to counter other builds, but that means there will be other builds out there that will counter yours. Each build has a pro and con associated with it. If you don't care for all that theorycrafting, just roll with a group and overwhelm them.... or just hit them with siege, the new 1vX meta lol. I don't care about 1vX or 1v1, or how big my epeen is. If I'm having fun, that is all that matters.

Vis

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

See, now you're losing me. I don't get what you are trying to say. But hey, don't take it personally. We don't need to 1v1 every time you think your "mmo-honor" has been insulted. We've fought in the past. Much love.

Look at my comment history. Look for how many nerfs I have asked for. The most toxic thing in a community is people screaming nerf while not taking the time to understand and adapt first.

Galalin

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

See, now you're losing me. I don't get what you are trying to say. But hey, don't take it personally. We don't need to 1v1 every time you think your "mmo-honor" has been insulted. We've fought in the past. Much love.

Look at my comment history. Look for how many nerfs I have asked for. The most toxic thing in a community is people screaming nerf while not taking the time to understand and adapt first.

See this is where you are getting me wrong im not crying nerf... it could however use an adjustment.... its not game breaking it just a little OP not a ton but a little. Now whatever the cause.... mitigated dame prior to application etc... i think it neess to be slightly adjusted

DK SCRUB OUT

Erock25

Magus wrote: »

Dodge roll and stamina build is still stronger than shield stacking sorc, main difference is that sorc can usually get away when they overwhelmed by numbers where the stam roller will usually die after 10 people jump on him. The sorc has a chance to survive being focused down and get away from the numbers, but this usually isn't the case. If you have 3 NBs time their ambush while someone else times their soul assault you will die, regardless of any current shield stacking. With the roll dodge, it's a little trickier to focus down but still a numbers game, and if the sorc is smart and isn't surprised then he should run away if he wants to live. There is no sorc that will stand there spamming shields to troll you so you can't kill him. Also, any magicka spent on the shields and surviving is time that the sorc is not attacking.

I play both sorc and DK at VR14, there are counters to each that make them easy to kill. I would suggest if you are having trouble killing one, play the class to get a better understanding of the mechanics so you can build in the counters.

This is a great post and I really wish all the Sorc haters out there would make their own and see how it really is.

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

See, now you're losing me. I don't get what you are trying to say. But hey, don't take it personally. We don't need to 1v1 every time you think your "mmo-honor" has been insulted. We've fought in the past. Much love.

Look at my comment history. Look for how many nerfs I have asked for. The most toxic thing in a community is people screaming nerf while not taking the time to understand and adapt first.

See this is where you are getting me wrong im not crying nerf... it could however use an adjustment.... its not game breaking it just a little OP not a ton but a little. Now whatever the cause.... mitigated dame prior to application etc... i think it neess to be slightly adjusted

DK SCRUB OUT

You aren't crying nerf but you want an adjustment that makes it less powerful. Do you know what the definition of nerf is?

Ezareth

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I've seem some pretty damn skillful melee players, some of them I consider more skilled than myself .

That said, I don't see any of those people in here complaining about damage shields.

That should tell you something.

Because most people who use something which is effective for them won't come here to complain about it, unlike me and few exceptions. I do stack shields and I think that it is ridiculously overpowered just like dodge rolling is for stamina users. It is way too hard to kill someone who stack shield or is spec to roll dodge 20times in a row and the thing is, they can still deal high dps. This is a problem and it will get even worse as people accumulate champion points.

Stacking shields for me is absolutely necessary because damage is off the charts right now. Until they nerf damage across the board further, any additional reduction to damage shields in any way shape or form would absolutely wreck sorcs. They'd have to double the armor provided by Light armor right now.

Your under the impression that damage shields are OP probably because you're wearing medium or heavy armor and already have an extremely tank class. Bolt escape doesn't really give us much survivability when you have people that can run about as fast as us while shooting arrows from 50 freaking yards away

I used to be damn near unkillable by 3 people in 1.5 with shield stacking, in 1.6 even though I'm fully specialized into maxing my damage shields I die literally 10 times more than I ever have.

People saying I need to put more points into health or better armor are wrong. I'm wearing 2 reinforced heavy pieces and a reinforced shield with 12,000 armor. It doesn't matter, under the right circumstances I get instagibbed regardless of having shields active or not.

I'm not defending damage shields because I want to be "OP", I'm defending them because if they become any less powerful my deaths are going to skyrocket even further.

And on the champion point scaling, damage scales far higher and faster than the growth of damage shields so the more champion points people get, the less power damage shields become.

Correction : Stacking shields for you is absolutely necessary because you spend everything in ressources management. You cannot have everything man. You gotta find the just middle. The game wasn't designed so you could have unlimited magicka, be able to deal high damage and be tanky all at the same time.

I know for a fact that you focus alot on magicka recovery and max magicka. The point of doing that should penalize you somewhere. The fact that your shields are essential to your survivability is because you don't wear any piece of heavy armor and because you haven't spent any points in health and/or spell resistance and/or % of armor increased while wearing light armor and other useful perks in the champion point system, I presume. Can't have it all

In other words, I don't think that shields should be the only defensive part of a build you need to focus on to keep you alive forever. You should have to invest on other things to assure your survivability against all builds in the game and someone who spec to be a high burst dps build should be able to crush someone who focus on ressources management unless you play it wise and kite the guy until he runs out of ressources. Gotta play your cards right But I'm sure you got my point.

Did you even read the text you quoted where I stated I'm wearing 2 pieces of reinforced heavy armor piece (Shield and boots for max armor) and reinforced shield and have 12,000 armor before you posted this? I don't even have any magicka cost reduction enchants when I'm PvPing.

The real issue at hand is I'm near the top of the Sorc skill level and I'm having survivability issues. What about the other 90%+ sorcs with less skill who don't know *exactly* when to dodge roll or bolt escape or exactly when to hold block, or animation cancel a shield etc. Those guys are dying a hell of a lot more than I am right now and if you nerf damage shields further without any other changes to offset them those sorcs are just going to be free AP for everyone. Is that what you're really aiming for?

Galalin

Erock25 wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Dodge roll and stamina build is still stronger than shield stacking sorc, main difference is that sorc can usually get away when they overwhelmed by numbers where the stam roller will usually die after 10 people jump on him. The sorc has a chance to survive being focused down and get away from the numbers, but this usually isn't the case. If you have 3 NBs time their ambush while someone else times their soul assault you will die, regardless of any current shield stacking. With the roll dodge, it's a little trickier to focus down but still a numbers game, and if the sorc is smart and isn't surprised then he should run away if he wants to live. There is no sorc that will stand there spamming shields to troll you so you can't kill him. Also, any magicka spent on the shields and surviving is time that the sorc is not attacking.

I play both sorc and DK at VR14, there are counters to each that make them easy to kill. I would suggest if you are having trouble killing one, play the class to get a better understanding of the mechanics so you can build in the counters.

This is a great post and I really wish all the Sorc haters out there would make their own and see how it really is.

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

See, now you're losing me. I don't get what you are trying to say. But hey, don't take it personally. We don't need to 1v1 every time you think your "mmo-honor" has been insulted. We've fought in the past. Much love.

Look at my comment history. Look for how many nerfs I have asked for. The most toxic thing in a community is people screaming nerf while not taking the time to understand and adapt first.

See this is where you are getting me wrong im not crying nerf... it could however use an adjustment.... its not game breaking it just a little OP not a ton but a little. Now whatever the cause.... mitigated dame prior to application etc... i think it neess to be slightly adjusted

DK SCRUB OUT

You aren't crying nerf but you want an adjustment that makes it less powerful. Do you know what the definition of nerf is?

I guess not can you please enlighten me? I guess nobody should have an opinion or its crying nerf... atleast it is when its your class right?

DK SCRUB OUT

Xsorus

Here is my dodge roll video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYLz0dY60g

I have more tumbling in it then Ezareth does..I'm actually spamming it with a button though and not double tapping so that's why i probably do it faster then him.

Ezareth

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

vaagventje17eb17_ESO wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

rdbrown1987 wrote: »

See I'd say yes they are too much if every class had a self heal like GDB or BoL etc but since they don't I think shields are just fine atm as they are.

Its the damage shields on sorcs that ppl are complaining about... not the shields in general

then yes I think the dmg shield in the sorc tree can create unfair advantage as now shields are recastable even before the previous shield has ended, do I think the shield on sorcs is needed due to lack of a heal in the sorc trees the answer is yes, do I think the shield is too large the answer is yes.

things zos could to make things better,
1, Cap the sorc shield to a certain percentage around the sames as the heals from GDB and BoL,
2, Make the shield so you can't cast until the previous one has fully ran out and if you do you waste magicka on the cast,

any other ideas put them in the post to make this a more constructive thread and they may actually do something.

okey lets recap, a avarage dk tank pvp has about? 30k hp? i think so, oke GDB heals you for 30% of lost, so that is around 10k with passive and ingnieus shield on. the sorc ward= 10k if they are good. usualy 8k, so done! that is already in the game enjoy!

Perfect. Now add about 700 magicka cost to hardened ward then at least DKs and Sorcs can feel even there.

wel fair enough, i dont mind at all if they up the costs, if that makes the skill more balanced, but messing with the shield amounts is just gonna unbalance all shields again, and then all classes wil be qq again. the problem here is not the size of the shield, its just that so many people who tank are used to having magicka en stacking shields, but now want ot use heavy armor and stamina, and wel yeah... you have to pick a option, and find a defence in it. and if your build lacks defencive options, then you are making a mistake, i as a sorc has been killed quick and slow by any class. and i kill quick and slow any class also, i never know what happens, 1 mistake 1 die, 1 mistake they die. its not about class or shields, its about skill of the player. and his enemy. dodge roll, shieldstack, wings, BoL, GDB, etc etc, pick your posion. and all people winning about overcharge, yeah its called a ultimate, it is supose to hurt... its not like your Standard of might, or nova dont do damage? drop it on any sorc, and let a friend press the synergy, and i bet his shields are down. its all about outsmarting your enemy, but ofc ones every while you wil run in to that 1 persone whos build you cant beet, thats the game. we all die. we all kill. but you ofc cant faceroll any enemy the same way. and anybody can lose if there is that 1 archer behind hte tree that is spamming arrows at you, as the dk is whipping you. the reason most magicka classes stack shield, is becasue after blocking 2 attacks, there out of stamina, and using inmovible is quite expensive if you are not a stamina build, so its pick and choose, dont like the way you toon handles? cant kill that pesky shield stacking sorc? think, theory craft, and find a way. these people are dying trust me. everybody is... ( fire treb, fire treb, fire treb) and iam sure everybody has players he walk over, and other players that walk over them. and if you dont have good deference's, get a good heal? look at templars, they can just out heal most stuff without having to cast shield? are we now calling that heal op? any class can do anykind of gameplay, its a elderscroll game, get used to it. any class has stamina and magicka options, so look it true, read the patch notes, and do some research. and iam sure you will find a way.. "life.... always... finds a way" oooh... and for those peopel chassing sorcs, that is what they want, to remove 1 player from the battle to lure him away, kill him, and go pick up another one. you are obviously running in to a ambush most of the time... and even then, i see people get out of that ambush triumphant, and killing the sorc plus his friends. its all about skill and knowing your limits, and most of the time, for all my dk friends, if you see a sorc overloading you, put up you wings, and it wil stop, or he wil destroy his own shields.. just a piece of advice^^ now go think and have fun guys, and stop bashing sorcs because you cant faceroll over 30 enemies anymore before you die. if you get 1 kill before you die, that, means balance. eye for a eye. tooth for a tooth, kill for a kill.

^^

I've never seen a giant run-on sentence that I've agreed with more. Bravo!

frozywozy wrote: »

It's like scissors asking for nerfs to papers XD

Rollin
[/quote]

I was going to start my video with that song but didn't have the time before I went to bed last night ) =

Germtrocity

frozywozy wrote: »

But if that person stands in place doing nothing but casting shields and kitting, you will never kill him. On the other hand, he will still deal considerable damage.

Right here, I cannot believe the amount of facepalm I just had, as it is pretty much a view of every QQer, completely ignoring the fact that playing actually requires skill.

If a sorcerer is only spamming shields and kiting, then how is he supposed to do "considerable damage" as you put it?

It is because they balance the class and are able to stay defensive while timing their offensive capabilities in order to get the kill - a thing known as skill.

If you die to a sorcerer, it is because he outplayed you. If you put considerable pressure on any class in a fight, you will make them unable to react and go on the offensive. If you constantly die to them, you need to figure out how to put more defense into your class instead of QQing about the fact that your mediocre offensive build cannot beat another class that is specced for smart and skillful play.

Everyone who constantly cries for nerfs needs to take a step back and evaluate their build before rushing to cry for a nerf. This is why we have the whole bolt escape nerf in the first place - people were unskilled and did not know how to counter it, whereas now there are a plethora of counters to bolt escape if you look for them.

Back off, L2P, then come back. The majority of people crying to get damage shields nerfed are either
A ) Bad players
or
B ) Still playing 1.5 when 1.6 is bashing them over the head

Ezareth

Galalin wrote: »

Btw mike its kinda funny how some guy calls me a noob and i call him out then you jump in to defend him to stroke your epeen as your one of the better duelers in legends if im thinking of the right person...its funny he can't fight his own battles but atleast i do.. i will definately oblige i don't claim to be the best as my title as DK SCRUB states but i hold my own and if you doubt it ask Ezareth... win or lose lets do this.

DK SCRUB OUT

You've gone off the deep end Galalin. What are you even talking about? In my fight with Sheliza I run out of magicka after bolt escaping probably 12 times in the very begining. How does that even remotely equate to dodge rolling for 6 minutes straight with room for plenty more?

I can't be in every thread at all times but you're spreading some serious misinformation. If you really don't understand that's fine, but if it is intentional it is pretty much BS.

Ifthir_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Here is my dodge roll video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYLz0dY60g

I have more tumbling in it then Ezareth does..I'm actually spamming it with a button though and not double tapping so that's why i probably do it faster then him.

do you really have 1200 champion points or am I not seeing your video correctly?

Ezareth

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

The fact there are 15 threads is relevant in any game... are you saying the 15 threads about reflective scale are wrong because ppl QQ in other games?

Actually, yes. Coming from a Sorc the complains about Scales was a perfect example of people QQing when they are terribly wrong. The problems with DKs in 1.5 were:
a) the ability to mitigate as much as heavy armor just by keeping Razor Armor up
b) the ability to perma-block in light armor thanks to a couple of cost reduction glyphs, along with
c) generally insane resource sustain thanks to Battle Roar and they way ult was generated in 1.5. And in conjunction with the way bats cost 150 but returned Battle Roar for 250.

Scales had nothing to do with it, except killing terribad players that couldn't help shooting themselves.

Galalin wrote: »

Resource management on a sorc is stupid atm btw

Care to try again?

Dead wrong. Resource management is stupid for any class/build that is set up for for sustain. I've posted Ez's video here of him dodge rolling in combat for 6 minutes with a stamina build. Care to explain to me how that sustain is ok, while Sorc sustain is stupid?

I'll try any day. Come at me!

A video spec'ed to dodge roll would love to see the gear and enchants... i could make a video of a sorc bolt ecaping around all of cyrodill with the right gear stats etc...sure thing i get home at 3am cst.... even though your just jumping on the opportunity to duel i have no prob win or lose

Added: this thresd is about shields as is the other... i understand ppl want to derail it but if dodge roll is so OP why not make a thread about it?

Do it. It would be an education for you to see we can't bolt every two seconds for 5 minutes straight (especially in combat). I dare you to try.

No skill or mechanic can be balanced in vacuum. If you attack magicka shields you have to consider their strength against stamina rolls. The worst thing you can do for balance is to consider one skill by itself. But that seems to be hard concept for many.

ADDED: replied to the wrong post but at the same time... if i call you a *** player and you say come fight me... how is that epeen? Cause thats exactly what i did... then some other peraon comes along and says i will fight you out of nowhere who is not even involved. .. now thats an epeen... but then again we have different views on a lot of things i guess

DK SCRUB OUT

See, now you're losing me. I don't get what you are trying to say. But hey, don't take it personally. We don't need to 1v1 every time you think your "mmo-honor" has been insulted. We've fought in the past. Much love.

Look at my comment history. Look for how many nerfs I have asked for. The most toxic thing in a community is people screaming nerf while not taking the time to understand and adapt first.

See this is where you are getting me wrong im not crying nerf... it could however use an adjustment.... its not game breaking it just a little OP not a ton but a little. Now whatever the cause.... mitigated dame prior to application etc... i think it neess to be slightly adjusted

DK SCRUB OUT

There is *No* mitigation applied to damage shields. Just because Sypher said he though it was doesn't make it true. I test this in PTS and it isn't true unless I see evidence otherwise. Quit spreading misinformation!

Magus

Ezareth wrote: »

[

You've gone off the deep end Galalin. What are you even talking about? In my fight with Sheliza I run out of magicka after bolt escaping probably 12 times in the very begining. How does that even remotely equate to dodge rolling for 6 minutes straight with room for plenty more?

I really enjoyed your video but I saw a couple times where you were vulnerable and Sheliza didn't capitalize, or do the things needed to do to kill a sorc (which I won't mention because I don't want it done to me ). It proves that it really is a resource battle and if you are on the defensive you will lose unless the attacker uses up too many of their resources in their burst. Kinda how like Rocky Balboa lets his opponent punch him in the face until they get tired out.