[Screenshot] 50% "Experience Booster" - ZOS, can we get a confirmation or further details?
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c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Oh no! Digital inventory! Give me a break. They are not "sitting" anywhere. It's a completely intangible item.
Its a figure of speech for NOT SELLING...c'mon man...
Force weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nimander99 wrote: »EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.
The game has a Champion System... your convenience items, in ESO, will have the effect of a faster endgame progression.
Now you tell us what that means, if you can buy a faster ENDGAME progression in the shop. Its pure Pay to Win. They may try to sell it as something else, but it is what it is.
Nobody is saying they can`t have normal XP potions, IF they don`t affect the Champion System.
We will see how hungry they are for money when they add it... a lot will leave if they make the move to Pay to Win and many potential new players will learn of the game`s direction and won`t come to play. Same as with most Pay to Win games.
'Nuff said.
A fabulous fairytale for people who think large endgame progression boosts are good to have on the cash shop...
Two people who are about the same skill level spend 4 hours a day trying to earn champion points. Player CoolGuyJoe has ESO+ and cash-shop XP pots from the crowns. Player TrulyTalented just uses ESO+ to keep up with new zone releases and support the game. CoolGuyJoe always has a 50% faster gain for champion points.
After two months of playing, TrulyTalented proudly achieves 300 champion points. Unfortunately, CoolGuyJoe has paid to win (p2w) and has 450 solely due to the faster xp gain at endgame, and now has three 120-point champion passives plus a lot of small extras from investing points in various areas.
Another few months go by, and the gap continues to widen. CoolGuyJoe is able to gain points even more quickly as his character gains power faster, while TrulyTalented is slowing down in comparison speed-wise between having less character power and not having the 50% gain up at all times. TrulyTalented is always behind, and continues to fall further with time, always being weaker than anyone else around his skill and activity level when fighting in raids or Cyrodiil AvA (pvp).
Edited by Attorneyatlawl on March 20, 2015 7:35PM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A lot of people in this thread are math defunct. If one person was going to normally earn 1 CP in a 2 hour time, a 50% XP pot earns him 1.5 CP in that hour (not 2 or 4 or w/e number people are spouting out). Big frikin deal, grow up people. Boosters are not p2w, and the only people who think they are have never played a real p2w game.
And LOL at these folks who want the XP pots to be 10%...you guys need to wake up and realize that zos needs to actually SELL these pots, not have them sit in the store forever (which is what will happen if they are 10%) 50% booster is fine, and will bring income to zos. More income is more shiny things for you. Everyone wins, and without the need to sell armor and weapons. Be happy.
It was also mentioned, that these pots will most likely be offered IN GAME for gold too...
Okay so based on your numbers:
Time - Normal - Potion
2hr - 1cp - 1.5cp
4hr - 2cp - 3cp
6hr - 3cp - 4.5cp
8hr - 4cp - 6cp
10hr - 5cp - 7.5cp
And of course the gap continues to widen from there...
They need to be readily available in game for gold, affordable prices like health or magicka pots. No super secret ingredient that jacks the price up to 500g a pot. Although even then this is a very slippery slope and we've reached it much faster than I'd anticipated.
Yeah, but whatever everyone fails to realize is that a true "Whale" doesn't have 10 hours to grind a video game 7 days a week. While powergamers who are not typically spending money in cash shops are playing 60-80+ hours a week.
I have a full time job, I don't have 10 hours a day to play ESO, I play on the weekends, I play after work, I sometimes do crafting and other stuff on my lunch so I don't have to do it later. I still think paying for XP is lazy and completely trivializes the game. Why bother questing and playing the content when I can use a shortcut. It's the same idea as using steroids. It's just a cheap shortcut because you can't be bothered to put the time and effort into developing your character. You want to throw some cash at it and be handed the levels and CP. It's disgusting.:trollin:3 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭What is a self-respecting gamer? Someone that sits at the computer 8 hours a day eating pizza and drinking a case of Pepsi?
LOL... I'm really struggling to understand this concept.
-snip-
Clearly, as you have that kind of stereotypes.
How is devoting your life to being good at video games any different than devoting your life to football in order to play at the high leagues?
Can you imagine the outrage, if some baddie team won by tipping off the referee every match?
It's no different here. A competitive environment, and you are begging for cheats because you can't win otherwise. You should feel ashamed.
Your analogy is completely off. Sports often are pay to win, case in point the Yankees. The only thing that is shameful here is the sense of entitlement some people have just because they possibly put more hours/effort into a video game. I bet half or more also took advantage of exploitative grinding spots in Craglorn or elsewhere that are no longer available to players, yet still aren't content.
I don't watch American football, so can't comment on that. But usually paying to win a game is not considered ethical, or even legal in most cases.
I've had this argument before, so before you say "oh, but they have to pay to get the best players, so it's P2W derp derp".
1) On an individual level, you don't pay to be in a good team, it's the other way around. You don't pay to be good at what you do either.
2) You can actually expect a return on your investment if you purchase the right players. Most sports aren't non-profit.
Also, there is no entitlement in what I say. I'm not saying those who play the most should win, I'm saying those who are the most skilled should win (if this comes through a lot of practice, then so be it, if it is natural talent, then so be it).
The fact that the Champion System is as it is, an infinite grind, is an unfortunate byproduct of them wanting to extort players with XP Boosters.
Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......0 -
AshySamurai✭✭✭✭✭
✭When's the next ESO live? I can see this coming up a lot in the questions
In the unanswered questions.I'd like to buy a potion for instant VR14, all achievements and 3600 CPs. After all, this would just be convenience.
@ZOS_GinaBruno, can we agree on 200$ ?
200? I think this bundle should also contain rainbow unicorn with x2 sll you riding skills.Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm sure that wasn't the intent of the Champion System.
I don't watch American football, so can't comment on that. But usually paying to win a game is not considered ethical, or even legal in most cases.
I've had this argument before, so before you say "oh, but they have to pay to get the best players, so it's P2W derp derp".
1) On an individual level, you don't pay to be in a good team, it's the other way around. You don't pay to be good at what you do either.
2) You can actually expect a return on your investment if you purchase the right players. Most sports aren't non-profit.
Also, there is no entitlement in what I say. I'm not saying those who play the most should win, I'm saying those who are the most skilled should win (if this comes through a lot of practice, then so be it, if it is natural talent, then so be it).
The fact that the Champion System is as it is, an infinite grind, is an unfortunate byproduct of them wanting to extort players with XP Boosters.:trollin:0 -
Khaldar✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »A lot of people in this thread are math defunct. If one person was going to normally earn 1 CP in a 2 hour time, a 50% XP pot earns him 1.5 CP in that hour (not 2 or 4 or w/e number people are spouting out). Big frikin deal, grow up people. Boosters are not p2w, and the only people who think they are have never played a real p2w game.
And LOL at these folks who want the XP pots to be 10%...you guys need to wake up and realize that zos needs to actually SELL these pots, not have them sit in the store forever (which is what will happen if they are 10%) 50% booster is fine, and will bring income to zos. More income is more shiny things for you. Everyone wins, and without the need to sell armor and weapons. Be happy.
It was also mentioned, that these pots will most likely be offered IN GAME for gold too...
Okay so based on your numbers:
Time - Normal - Potion
2hr - 1cp - 1.5cp
4hr - 2cp - 3cp
6hr - 3cp - 4.5cp
8hr - 4cp - 6cp
10hr - 5cp - 7.5cp
And of course the gap continues to widen from there...
They need to be readily available in game for gold, affordable prices like health or magicka pots. No super secret ingredient that jacks the price up to 500g a pot. Although even then this is a very slippery slope and we've reached it much faster than I'd anticipated.
Yeah, but whatever everyone fails to realize is that a true "Whale" doesn't have 10 hours to grind a video game 7 days a week. While powergamers who are not typically spending money in cash shops are playing 60-80+ hours a week.
I have a full time job, I don't have 10 hours a day to play ESO, I play on the weekends, I play after work, I sometimes do crafting and other stuff on my lunch so I don't have to do it later. I still think paying for XP is lazy and completely trivializes the game. Why bother questing and playing the content when I can use a shortcut. It's the same idea as using steroids. It's just a cheap shortcut because you can't be bothered to put the time and effort into developing your character. You want to throw some cash at it and be handed the levels and CP. It's disgusting.
if you followed my posts, you would read that I don't think 50% or even 200% bonus in XP is enough of an incentive for me to blow wads of cash on this game. It just doesn't incentivize me to spend. ESO needs whales with this new B2P market or there will be limited content updates for everyone. So they need to find a way to capture the whales.
Edited by Khaldar on March 20, 2015 7:40PM1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭Experience boost consumables are PAY TO WIN.
This here credit card cowboy is gonna have more CP then ya'll.End the tedious inventory management game.4 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭phreatophile wrote: »Honestly, I just think 50% is too much.
I don't mind if someone grinding at the same speed makes it to the end 10% faster than I do. I do care if they make it there twice as fast.
50% not 100%
There for 1.5X as fast not 2X as fast.
I'm wondering is half the rage in this thread comes from failure to understand how percentages work.
It was actually more of an exaggeration for emphasis, but you made your point.0 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.
The game has a Champion System... your convenience items, in ESO, will have the effect of a faster endgame progression.
Now you tell us what that means, if you can buy a faster ENDGAME progression in the shop. Its pure Pay to Win. They may try to sell it as something else, but it is what it is.
Nobody is saying they can`t have normal XP potions, IF they don`t affect the Champion System.
We will see how hungry they are for money when they add it... a lot will leave if they make the move to Pay to Win and many potential new players will learn of the game`s direction and won`t come to play. Same as with most Pay to Win games.
'Nuff said.
A fabulous fairytale for people who think large endgame progression boosts are good to have on the cash shop...
Two people who are about the same skill level spend 4 hours a day trying to earn champion points. Player CoolGuyJoe has ESO+ and cash-shop XP pots from the crowns. Player TrulyTalented just uses ESO+ to keep up with new zone releases and support the game. CoolGuyJoe always has a 50% faster gain for champion points.
After two months of playing, TrulyTalented proudly achieves 300 champion points. Unfortunately, CoolGuyJoe has paid to win (p2w) and has 450 solely due to the faster xp gain at endgame, and now has three 120-point champion passives plus a lot of small extras from investing points in various areas.
Another few months go by, and the gap continues to widen. CoolGuyJoe is able to gain points even more quickly as his character gains power faster, while TrulyTalented is slowing down in comparison speed-wise between having less character power and not having the 50% gain up at all times. TrulyTalented is always behind, and continues to fall further with time, always being weaker than anyone else around his skill and activity level when fighting in raids or Cyrodiil AvA (pvp).
You forgot the end to that story:
TrulyTalented stops caring about progression and drops his ESO+ sub. CoolGuyJoe is disappointed his buddy isn't around for the new content and since he only really enjoys it with TrulyTalented, he also drops his ESO+ sub. They both use the sub money for games they can play together on Steam, reducing their play time with ESO to only a couple hours a day. They both eventually get so far behind those who have dedicated all of their play time to ESO, they simply stop playing since they're both eternally behind the power curve.
Player attrition cascades. Notoriety of the TES IP is damaged. Bethesda starts marketing TES VI, and neither TrulyTalented nor CoolGuyJoe buy it, based on a bad experience with ESO.5 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What is a self-respecting gamer? Someone that sits at the computer 8 hours a day eating pizza and drinking a case of Pepsi?
LOL... I'm really struggling to understand this concept.
-snip-
Clearly, as you have that kind of stereotypes.
How is devoting your life to being good at video games any different than devoting your life to football in order to play at the high leagues?
Can you imagine the outrage, if some baddie team won by tipping off the referee every match?
It's no different here. A competitive environment, and you are begging for cheats because you can't win otherwise. You should feel ashamed.
Your analogy is completely off. Sports often are pay to win, case in point the Yankees. The only thing that is shameful here is the sense of entitlement some people have just because they possibly put more hours/effort into a video game. I bet half or more also took advantage of exploitative grinding spots in Craglorn or elsewhere that are no longer available to players, yet still aren't content.
I don't watch American football, so can't comment on that. But usually paying to win a game is not considered ethical, or even legal in most cases.
I've had this argument before, so before you say "oh, but they have to pay to get the best players, so it's P2W derp derp".
1) On an individual level, you don't pay to be in a good team, it's the other way around. You don't pay to be good at what you do either.
2) You can actually expect a return on your investment if you purchase the right players. Most sports aren't non-profit.
Also, there is no entitlement in what I say. I'm not saying those who play the most should win, I'm saying those who are the most skilled should win (if this comes through a lot of practice, then so be it, if it is natural talent, then so be it).
The fact that the Champion System is as it is, an infinite grind, is an unfortunate byproduct of them wanting to extort players with XP Boosters.
Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Such a weak response shouldn't even warrant a reply. Out of real arguments?
Yeah, my apologies for not recognizing the American team names, I happen to be from Europe
All I can say is that soccer, hockey, ice hockey, basketball, tennis, squash, skiing, ping pong, eSports... pretty much every hobby/sport I can think of does not involve players paying to win, they involve players playing to win under the rules of fair competition. I haven't watched baseball, but if it's a sport where players throw money around to gain points, then it's probably not one I want to watch.
I propose you read up on them, there's much you could learn: http://www.fairplayinternational.org/fairplay/the-essence-of-fair-play#.VQx4xI6sXIc
Some of my picks:
Fair competition
To enjoy the fruits of success it is not enough to win. Triumph must be scored by absolutely fair means and by honest and just play.
Sport without doping
Someone who takes drugs cheats. Someone who cheats ruins the game. Someone who ruins the game cannot be played with.
Equality
Competing on equal terms is essential in sport. Otherwise performance cannot be measured properly.
Edited by DDuke on March 20, 2015 7:49PM3 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.
The game has a Champion System... your convenience items, in ESO, will have the effect of a faster endgame progression.
Now you tell us what that means, if you can buy a faster ENDGAME progression in the shop. Its pure Pay to Win. They may try to sell it as something else, but it is what it is.
Nobody is saying they can`t have normal XP potions, IF they don`t affect the Champion System.
We will see how hungry they are for money when they add it... a lot will leave if they make the move to Pay to Win and many potential new players will learn of the game`s direction and won`t come to play. Same as with most Pay to Win games.
'Nuff said.
A fabulous fairytale for people who think large endgame progression boosts are good to have on the cash shop...
Two people who are about the same skill level spend 4 hours a day trying to earn champion points. Player CoolGuyJoe has ESO+ and cash-shop XP pots from the crowns. Player TrulyTalented just uses ESO+ to keep up with new zone releases and support the game. CoolGuyJoe always has a 50% faster gain for champion points.
After two months of playing, TrulyTalented proudly achieves 300 champion points. Unfortunately, CoolGuyJoe has paid to win (p2w) and has 450 solely due to the faster xp gain at endgame, and now has three 120-point champion passives plus a lot of small extras from investing points in various areas.
Another few months go by, and the gap continues to widen. CoolGuyJoe is able to gain points even more quickly as his character gains power faster, while TrulyTalented is slowing down in comparison speed-wise between having less character power and not having the 50% gain up at all times. TrulyTalented is always behind, and continues to fall further with time, always being weaker than anyone else around his skill and activity level when fighting in raids or Cyrodiil AvA (pvp).
You forgot the end to that story:
TrulyTalented stops caring about progression and drops his ESO+ sub. CoolGuyJoe is disappointed his buddy isn't around for the new content and since he only really enjoys it with TrulyTalented, he also drops his ESO+ sub. They both use the sub money for games they can play together on Steam, reducing their play time with ESO to only a couple hours a day. They both eventually get so far behind those who have dedicated all of their play time to ESO, they simply stop playing since they're both eternally behind the power curve.
Player attrition cascades. Notoriety of the TES IP is damaged. Bethesda starts marketing TES VI, and neither TrulyTalented nor CoolGuyJoe buy it, based on a bad experience with ESO.
The conclusion was left as an exercise for the reader. And you passed it with flying colors 
. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.2 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.
The game has a Champion System... your convenience items, in ESO, will have the effect of a faster endgame progression.
Now you tell us what that means, if you can buy a faster ENDGAME progression in the shop. Its pure Pay to Win. They may try to sell it as something else, but it is what it is.
Nobody is saying they can`t have normal XP potions, IF they don`t affect the Champion System.
We will see how hungry they are for money when they add it... a lot will leave if they make the move to Pay to Win and many potential new players will learn of the game`s direction and won`t come to play. Same as with most Pay to Win games.
'Nuff said.
A fabulous fairytale for people who think large endgame progression boosts are good to have on the cash shop...
Two people who are about the same skill level spend 4 hours a day trying to earn champion points. Player CoolGuyJoe has ESO+ and cash-shop XP pots from the crowns. Player TrulyTalented just uses ESO+ to keep up with new zone releases and support the game. CoolGuyJoe always has a 50% faster gain for champion points.
After two months of playing, TrulyTalented proudly achieves 300 champion points. Unfortunately, CoolGuyJoe has paid to win (p2w) and has 450 solely due to the faster xp gain at endgame, and now has three 120-point champion passives plus a lot of small extras from investing points in various areas.
Another few months go by, and the gap continues to widen. CoolGuyJoe is able to gain points even more quickly as his character gains power faster, while TrulyTalented is slowing down in comparison speed-wise between having less character power and not having the 50% gain up at all times. TrulyTalented is always behind, and continues to fall further with time, always being weaker than anyone else around his skill and activity level when fighting in raids or Cyrodiil AvA (pvp).
How about a story of two people that have the same skill level that both want to be competitive in PvP. Player CoolGuyJoe has been playing ESO for a year, is VR 14, and has over 100 CP's. Player TrulyTalented just started a month ago and has just reached VR1.
After two months of playing, Player CoolGuyJoe has continued to earn points and the gap never closes. Despite the time that TrulyTalented has invested in ESO, he will never be on a level playing field as Player CoolGuyJoe despite being equal in skill. TrulyTalented is always behind and will always be weaker than anyone else around his skill and activity level.
What exactly in this scenario encourages the new player to ever buy ESO or attempt to participate in competitive content? Maybe XP/AP boosters are not the answer, but ZOS must do something to level the playing field and give new players a chance or the player population in competitive areas like PvP will never go up and will eventually turn into a ghost town.2 -
1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
They can do so by making items that don't effect progression. I will gladly buy mounts, pets and costumes that I find interesting in the store. I will buy DLC and even repair kits so I don't have to travel back to a city when I'm in the middle of a dungeon. But I will not buy my character advancement.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »A lot of people in this thread are math defunct. If one person was going to normally earn 1 CP in a 2 hour time, a 50% XP pot earns him 1.5 CP in that hour (not 2 or 4 or w/e number people are spouting out). Big frikin deal, grow up people. Boosters are not p2w, and the only people who think they are have never played a real p2w game.
And LOL at these folks who want the XP pots to be 10%...you guys need to wake up and realize that zos needs to actually SELL these pots, not have them sit in the store forever (which is what will happen if they are 10%) 50% booster is fine, and will bring income to zos. More income is more shiny things for you. Everyone wins, and without the need to sell armor and weapons. Be happy.
It was also mentioned, that these pots will most likely be offered IN GAME for gold too...
Okay so based on your numbers:
Time - Normal - Potion
2hr - 1cp - 1.5cp
4hr - 2cp - 3cp
6hr - 3cp - 4.5cp
8hr - 4cp - 6cp
10hr - 5cp - 7.5cp
And of course the gap continues to widen from there...
They need to be readily available in game for gold, affordable prices like health or magicka pots. No super secret ingredient that jacks the price up to 500g a pot. Although even then this is a very slippery slope and we've reached it much faster than I'd anticipated.
Yeah, but whatever everyone fails to realize is that a true "Whale" doesn't have 10 hours to grind a video game 7 days a week. While powergamers who are not typically spending money in cash shops are playing 60-80+ hours a week.
I have a full time job, I don't have 10 hours a day to play ESO, I play on the weekends, I play after work, I sometimes do crafting and other stuff on my lunch so I don't have to do it later. I still think paying for XP is lazy and completely trivializes the game. Why bother questing and playing the content when I can use a shortcut. It's the same idea as using steroids. It's just a cheap shortcut because you can't be bothered to put the time and effort into developing your character. You want to throw some cash at it and be handed the levels and CP. It's disgusting.
if you followed my posts, you would read that I don't think 50% or even 200% bonus in XP is enough of an incentive for me to blow wads of cash on this game. It just doesn't incentivize me to spend. ESO needs whales with this new B2P market or there will be limited content updates for everyone. So they need to find a way to capture the whales.
:trollin:1 -
Dazin93✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).
So now you have empirical evidence that athletes that use steroids are superior to those that don't and categorically outperform those that do not use drugs. Please provide a source because I am not buying this argument.
1 -
Khaldar✭✭✭Grinders are going to grind... No matter if they have XP pots, or exploit spawns they are going to be ahead of 95% of the rest of the community. Why? Because they have more time to dedicate to the game. Unless you are a hardcore powergamer, you really have no argument against XP pots. Because you are going to fall behind with or without XP pots to powergamers whether they use pots or not. The only people you should be concerned with are friends and guildmates. Can you keep up with them? Or is everyone really that concerned with the idea that they may one day become emperor?
The only way to slow this from happening is a daily or weekly cap on CP. But most everyone is against that. Pick your poison, because ZOS wants to make money. And the people with the kind of money they want don't play 80 hours a week.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What exactly in this scenario encourages the new player to ever buy ESO or attempt to participate in competitive content? Maybe XP/AP boosters are not the answer, but ZOS must do something to level the playing field and give new players a chance or the player population in competitive areas like PvP will never go up and will eventually turn into a ghost town.
Finally, something we can agree on.
This is why the Champion System being an infinite time based vertical climb is a bad thing.
Other games solve this issue by making leveling easier (not the end game progression), until you hit the end game, at which point you have gear to grind.
Some games use the seasonal gear system, where Tier 1 gear becomes more accessible once Tier 2/Tier 3 is released.
These other games of course lack the infinite progression of Champion System.
Perhaps changing Champion System to a horizontal one could be the answer, and then implementing another kind of progression.
One option would be having a limit of how many Champion Points you can have allocated at a time, and then having earned ones unlock new passives (more options, instead of more power). That way, you can still keep 3600 CPs that take ages to grind, without giving people more raw power based on how much they play and how much they pay.Edited by DDuke on March 20, 2015 8:01PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).
So now you have empirical evidence that athletes that use steroids are superior to those that don't and categorically outperform those that do not use drugs. Please provide a source because I am not buying this argument.
There's a reason they're illegal: they give you an unfair advantage over others.
But in truth, the only reason they're illegal is because they're dangerous to your health.
Otherwise everyone would use them, and there would be no unfair advantages.
This is not the case with XP boosters however. Not everyone has thousands of $$$ to throw at the game, thus making it an unfair advantage (available only to a small portion of playerbase).0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭phreatophile wrote: »
The two hour cooldown means w/100% possible uptime, which would be foolish, it's a 25% XP boost.those for the boosts, such as myself, would rather invest more money and less time into the game as we find our time more valuable.There always is, and it's about my game experience not somebody else's.
The sheer arrogance of these statements... so basically you want to tell us how much better you are, because $$$.
Newsflash: your time isn't any more valuable than mine, or the time of the person next to me.
Learn to live with it.
It's my assumption that the cool down is initiated upon consuming the potion and expires right when the buff fades away 2 hours later. My guess is it's only there so that people don't mistakenly drink another one before the previous expires. I imagine that could cause support some stress.
So it would be 100% uptime at a cash paid 50%xp boost or more.0 -
Khaldar✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
They can do so by making items that don't effect progression. I will gladly buy mounts, pets and costumes that I find interesting in the store. I will buy DLC and even repair kits so I don't have to travel back to a city when I'm in the middle of a dungeon. But I will not buy my character advancement.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »A lot of people in this thread are math defunct. If one person was going to normally earn 1 CP in a 2 hour time, a 50% XP pot earns him 1.5 CP in that hour (not 2 or 4 or w/e number people are spouting out). Big frikin deal, grow up people. Boosters are not p2w, and the only people who think they are have never played a real p2w game.
And LOL at these folks who want the XP pots to be 10%...you guys need to wake up and realize that zos needs to actually SELL these pots, not have them sit in the store forever (which is what will happen if they are 10%) 50% booster is fine, and will bring income to zos. More income is more shiny things for you. Everyone wins, and without the need to sell armor and weapons. Be happy.
It was also mentioned, that these pots will most likely be offered IN GAME for gold too...
Okay so based on your numbers:
Time - Normal - Potion
2hr - 1cp - 1.5cp
4hr - 2cp - 3cp
6hr - 3cp - 4.5cp
8hr - 4cp - 6cp
10hr - 5cp - 7.5cp
And of course the gap continues to widen from there...
They need to be readily available in game for gold, affordable prices like health or magicka pots. No super secret ingredient that jacks the price up to 500g a pot. Although even then this is a very slippery slope and we've reached it much faster than I'd anticipated.
Yeah, but whatever everyone fails to realize is that a true "Whale" doesn't have 10 hours to grind a video game 7 days a week. While powergamers who are not typically spending money in cash shops are playing 60-80+ hours a week.
I have a full time job, I don't have 10 hours a day to play ESO, I play on the weekends, I play after work, I sometimes do crafting and other stuff on my lunch so I don't have to do it later. I still think paying for XP is lazy and completely trivializes the game. Why bother questing and playing the content when I can use a shortcut. It's the same idea as using steroids. It's just a cheap shortcut because you can't be bothered to put the time and effort into developing your character. You want to throw some cash at it and be handed the levels and CP. It's disgusting.
if you followed my posts, you would read that I don't think 50% or even 200% bonus in XP is enough of an incentive for me to blow wads of cash on this game. It just doesn't incentivize me to spend. ESO needs whales with this new B2P market or there will be limited content updates for everyone. So they need to find a way to capture the whales.
You also might want to add a portable merchant to that list so you don't have to empty your bags.0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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^ Seriously??Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).
So now you have empirical evidence that athletes that use steroids are superior to those that don't and categorically outperform those that do not use drugs. Please provide a source because I am not buying this argument.
:trollin:2 -
Folkb✭✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).
So now you have empirical evidence that athletes that use steroids are superior to those that don't and categorically outperform those that do not use drugs. Please provide a source because I am not buying this argument.
There's a reason they're illegal: they give you an unfair advantage over others.
But in truth, the only reason they're illegal is because they're dangerous to your health.
Otherwise everyone would use them, and there would be no unfair advantages.
This is not the case with XP boosters however. Not everyone has thousands of $$$ to throw at the game, thus making it an unfair advantage (available only to a small portion of playerbase).
Not that I want to take sides but is that any worse than saying not everyone has thousands of hours to play games?
just asking, don't hurt me.1 -
werghon✭✭would be awesome and great if the crown-store some fine day could sell me a whine-less forum, a boy can dream right 0
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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There is a difference. A person shouldn't feel proud because they have more money to burn and thus can make their character more powerful faster. They should be able to be proud of the time they invested in their character. I have a V14 and I have another character I am working on who is V7. I also have a V1 I might some day go back to. I am somehow managing just fine without XP boosts and working a full time job.Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Don't talk about sports then if you know nothing about how it works. The Yankees are a baseball team by the way.......
Two great teams are coming up on a playoff game. One team decides they deserve to win and boosts up their batters with 'roids. Who has the statistical edge now? Just like XP pots over time where a guy ends up with 1500cp vs. someone else's 1000, even though they play similar amounts of time and are about the same skill level, simply because one paid up the toll to buy some 'roids (50% xp boost pots for endgame progression).
So now you have empirical evidence that athletes that use steroids are superior to those that don't and categorically outperform those that do not use drugs. Please provide a source because I am not buying this argument.
There's a reason they're illegal: they give you an unfair advantage over others.
But in truth, the only reason they're illegal is because they're dangerous to your health.
Otherwise everyone would use them, and there would be no unfair advantages.
This is not the case with XP boosters however. Not everyone has thousands of $$$ to throw at the game, thus making it an unfair advantage (available only to a small portion of playerbase).
Not that I want to take sides but is that any worse than saying not everyone has thousands of hours to play games?
just asking, don't hurt me.
:trollin:3 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭A lot of people in this thread are math defunct. If one person was going to normally earn 1 CP in a 2 hour time, a 50% XP pot earns him 1.5 CP in that time frame (not 2 or 4 or w/e number people are spouting out). Big frikin deal, grow up people. Boosters are not p2w, and the only people who think they are have never played a real p2w game.
And LOL at these folks who want the XP pots to be 10%...you guys need to wake up and realize that zos needs to actually SELL these pots, not have them sit in the store forever (which is what will happen if they are 10%) 50% booster is fine, and will bring income to zos. More income is more shiny things for you. Everyone wins, and without the need to sell armor and weapons. Be happy.
It was also mentioned, that these pots will most likely be offered IN GAME for gold too...
Except that your argument assumes that gear is the big separator of power in-game and this is not true. Gear is EASILY obtainable via crafting and is accessible to all by crafting it themselves or buying it for relatively cheap from a crafter. If they put something similar to crafted gear on the crown store it would be far less harmful than this.
CP on the other hand is not easy to come by and there is no other way to get it outside of leveling/grinding for it so these pots represent a huge P2W element in this game. It's especially egregious when you consider how much XP was nerfed recently (even though they promised they wouldn't do this) and now are offering XP gain at a faster rate for cash.2 -
Khaldar✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Other than destroying the game's integrity as a hobbyist match of skill, that is patently false. Two people of equal skill collide, one guy has 1500 champ points and the other has 1000 because he didn't pay up. The 1500 guy factually and objectively has the statistical edge.
So I don't feel sorry for the other guy who can't afford or refuses to buy pots, but can spend a ridiculous amount of time farming CP to get to a thousand. Why am I supposed to feel bad for him? Because the other guy had an unfair advantage in a non-competitive MMO. Nope. Sorry.
If someone who had been on a waiting list for 2 years for a heart transplant got bumped by someone who had been waiting a month but had more money, then I would feel sorry for the person who got bumped. Why? Because one is reality and one is a completely fictional hobby.
Edited by Khaldar on March 20, 2015 8:19PM1 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »nimander99 wrote: »EXP boost pots are not p2w they are convenience items for people who don't have 6 hours a day to play ESO. Time can have price on it.
The game has a Champion System... your convenience items, in ESO, will have the effect of a faster endgame progression.
Now you tell us what that means, if you can buy a faster ENDGAME progression in the shop. Its pure Pay to Win. They may try to sell it as something else, but it is what it is.
Nobody is saying they can`t have normal XP potions, IF they don`t affect the Champion System.
We will see how hungry they are for money when they add it... a lot will leave if they make the move to Pay to Win and many potential new players will learn of the game`s direction and won`t come to play. Same as with most Pay to Win games.
'Nuff said.
A fabulous fairytale for people who think large endgame progression boosts are good to have on the cash shop...
Two people who are about the same skill level spend 4 hours a day trying to earn champion points. Player CoolGuyJoe has ESO+ and cash-shop XP pots from the crowns. Player TrulyTalented just uses ESO+ to keep up with new zone releases and support the game. CoolGuyJoe always has a 50% faster gain for champion points.
After two months of playing, TrulyTalented proudly achieves 300 champion points. Unfortunately, CoolGuyJoe has paid to win (p2w) and has 450 solely due to the faster xp gain at endgame, and now has three 120-point champion passives plus a lot of small extras from investing points in various areas.
Another few months go by, and the gap continues to widen. CoolGuyJoe is able to gain points even more quickly as his character gains power faster, while TrulyTalented is slowing down in comparison speed-wise between having less character power and not having the 50% gain up at all times. TrulyTalented is always behind, and continues to fall further with time, always being weaker than anyone else around his skill and activity level when fighting in raids or Cyrodiil AvA (pvp).
Is it wrong that in my head the Prophet narrated this to me?
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deanrunsSoul ShrivenStatements like " it should only be about skill" are always bandied about and the fact is it is always about skill, especially in PvP. Grinding PvE mobs for hours on end isn't a reflection of skill and neither is your gear or amount of CP's. True skill will always win out when the rubber meets the road.
Other than destroying the game's integrity as a hobbyist match of skill, that is patently false. Two people of equal skill collide, one guy has 1500 champ points and the other has 1000 because he didn't pay up. The 1500 guy factually and objectively has the statistical edge.So I don't feel sorry for the other guy who can't afford or refuses to buy pots, but can spend a ridiculous amount of time farming CP to get to a thousand. Why am I supposed to feel bad for him? Because the other guy had an unfair advantage in a non-competitive MMO. Nope. Sorry.
If someone who had been on a waiting list for 2 years for a heart transplant got bumped by someone who had been waiting a month but had more money, then I would feel sorry for the person who got bumped. Why? Because one is reality and one is a completely fictional hobby.
LOL! NICE!
Edited by deanruns on March 20, 2015 8:19PMYes: It's mostly better than no.0