rfennell_ESO wrote: »ps pppontus likely doesn't play his sorc much and I'd bet certainly doesn't and hasn't raided on a sorc. He just keeps claiming otherwise to offset his obvious dk bias. I guess he could post all his "on my sorc" leaderboard screenies but I'm betting they are all on his dk.
If only you could see my build in action. Maybe once I ding VR14 and get my gear and stat allocation finalized I'll share. Sorc tank has the potential to be the best tank in a group setting if you allow yourself to think slightly outside of the box.Imo, from PVE perspective YES we can say sorc got some nerfs.. Especially they killed sorc tank build possibilty with using clann as healing source.
As *luck would have it, my negate never worked that way in the first place. Stun and silence worked fine, but NPC's never had any issue dropping effects from the outside in when I'd put it down. (Was very odd.)Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Sorcs were nerfed. But there is a vocal minority that wants to keep sorcs nerfed. So they keep spreading this mis-information that "sorcs are fine" and obfuscating the entire conversations about the holistic sorc toolkit and the problems with it.
It's not actually a vocal minority, any decent player that knows how to play will tell you sorcs are not worse than they where before. Some will even say they where buffed.
well if you lose the last reason to be picked for pve (negate) without any ground winning in other pve resorts you stay the most unused class for pve.
no matter if you call the loss a nerf or not - sorcs are garbage in pve if you are not joining the wrecking blow train.
In 1.5, you didn't need negate, you could use Nova after Nova and overheal every and any content with a good templar. With the new ultimate limitations, the fights lasting longer and the nerf to healing + removal of softcaps, sorcs are more needed than before. Negate Might be nerfed but it still removes *** from the ground.
sure it still removes *** from the ground but only once, the rest of the time you are "plagued" with a supbar DD or heal or an not even mentionable tank while the negate can be easily substituted by e.g. your allready mentioned Nova and gain a fully worthwhile healer, more DPS or a tough tank.
Nova won't help you in 2nd boss of AA, it needs to be under the add and not under the party. Putting it down will negate the damage from the boss but won't negate the damage from the nullifier if he is outside of the Nova. A well placed negate will remove the AOE from nullfier though, that way the party doesn't have to move, and you don't waste DPS.
Just because something didn't work in 1.5 you can't just dismiss it in 1.6 and just because something worked in 1.5 doesn't mean it will in 1.6, especially not at the beginning.
Exactly. Again, part of the problem is failure to adapt. Honestly, there's a reason why people in the "top" guilds say Sorcs weren't nerfed.
Because it's people like us who know the ins and outs of every strategy, build and class in this game..
And I'm not trying to be a jackass and say l2p, I'm really not.
But most people who have spent months negating the 2nd boss don't even know that it's the nullifiers AOE they are negating. They do it because people who figured out the strategies told them to do it.
Now it's a new playing field and time to relearn stuff. Not the time to ask for buffs before we even know the potential of what we have right now.
rfennell_ESO wrote: »ps pppontus likely doesn't play his sorc much and I'd bet certainly doesn't and hasn't raided on a sorc. He just keeps claiming otherwise to offset his obvious dk bias. I guess he could post all his "on my sorc" leaderboard screenies but I'm betting they are all on his dk.
The only raid I've done in 1.6.
P.S: L2STFU when you have no clue.
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »As *luck would have it, my negate never worked that way in the first place. Stun and silence worked fine, but NPC's never had any issue dropping effects from the outside in when I'd put it down. (Was very odd.)Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Sorcs were nerfed. But there is a vocal minority that wants to keep sorcs nerfed. So they keep spreading this mis-information that "sorcs are fine" and obfuscating the entire conversations about the holistic sorc toolkit and the problems with it.
It's not actually a vocal minority, any decent player that knows how to play will tell you sorcs are not worse than they where before. Some will even say they where buffed.
well if you lose the last reason to be picked for pve (negate) without any ground winning in other pve resorts you stay the most unused class for pve.
no matter if you call the loss a nerf or not - sorcs are garbage in pve if you are not joining the wrecking blow train.
In 1.5, you didn't need negate, you could use Nova after Nova and overheal every and any content with a good templar. With the new ultimate limitations, the fights lasting longer and the nerf to healing + removal of softcaps, sorcs are more needed than before. Negate Might be nerfed but it still removes *** from the ground.
sure it still removes *** from the ground but only once, the rest of the time you are "plagued" with a supbar DD or heal or an not even mentionable tank while the negate can be easily substituted by e.g. your allready mentioned Nova and gain a fully worthwhile healer, more DPS or a tough tank.
Nova won't help you in 2nd boss of AA, it needs to be under the add and not under the party. Putting it down will negate the damage from the boss but won't negate the damage from the nullifier if he is outside of the Nova. A well placed negate will remove the AOE from nullfier though, that way the party doesn't have to move, and you don't waste DPS.
Just because something didn't work in 1.5 you can't just dismiss it in 1.6 and just because something worked in 1.5 doesn't mean it will in 1.6, especially not at the beginning.
Exactly. Again, part of the problem is failure to adapt. Honestly, there's a reason why people in the "top" guilds say Sorcs weren't nerfed.
Because it's people like us who know the ins and outs of every strategy, build and class in this game..
And I'm not trying to be a jackass and say l2p, I'm really not.
But most people who have spent months negating the 2nd boss don't even know that it's the nullifiers AOE they are negating. They do it because people who figured out the strategies told them to do it.
Now it's a new playing field and time to relearn stuff. Not the time to ask for buffs before we even know the potential of what we have right now.
So, the good news is, now that that utility is gone, I haven't even noticed...
In regard to the subject at hand, even if it was as broken as some think, I personally refuse to be made obsolete.
There is always a way.
The class is not utterly broken. Utterly different, definitely.
If only you could see my build in action. Maybe once I ding VR14 and get my gear and stat allocation finalized I'll share. Sorc tank has the potential to be the best tank in a group setting if you allow yourself to think slightly outside of the box.Imo, from PVE perspective YES we can say sorc got some nerfs.. Especially they killed sorc tank build possibilty with using clann as healing source.
rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »ps pppontus likely doesn't play his sorc much and I'd bet certainly doesn't and hasn't raided on a sorc. He just keeps claiming otherwise to offset his obvious dk bias. I guess he could post all his "on my sorc" leaderboard screenies but I'm betting they are all on his dk.
The only raid I've done in 1.6.
P.S: L2STFU when you have no clue.
gee I have all those and I don't and haven't raided on sorc for months.
But hey, grats on clearing AA. That proves so very much to everyone.
The only thing I would actually consider a "Nerf" to Sorcerer's was the cool down added to Critical Surge. If they would have also updated it to NOT include DoT's then the cool down would be fine. Since a lot of Sorcs use DoT's it renders Crit Surge useless for healing. They need to remove DoT crits from the spell and then it would be more useful.
rfennell_ESO wrote: »The only thing I would actually consider a "Nerf" to Sorcerer's was the cool down added to Critical Surge. If they would have also updated it to NOT include DoT's then the cool down would be fine. Since a lot of Sorcs use DoT's it renders Crit Surge useless for healing. They need to remove DoT crits from the spell and then it would be more useful.
This is the main nerf to sorcs, and non sorcs aren't capable of understanding it.
I get about the same hps from power surge that I got with crit surge in 1.5.
I guess the twisters of logic would say that's the same then!!! not a nerf!!!. Well I get the same hps abouts as 1.5 but I have 18k health versus 2.7k health. It's that bad... to the point of nearly being useless.
If only you could see my build in action. Maybe once I ding VR14 and get my gear and stat allocation finalized I'll share. Sorc tank has the potential to be the best tank in a group setting if you allow yourself to think slightly outside of the box.Imo, from PVE perspective YES we can say sorc got some nerfs.. Especially they killed sorc tank build possibilty with using clann as healing source.
I tried hard to make Sorc Tank work pre-1.6 and while of course it works, it really had no advantages over other tanks. Could you maybe drop some hints about what synergy you are seeing with Sorc and Tank in 1.6? Would be much appreciated, @Brandalf .
In 1.5, you didn't need negate, you could use Nova after Nova and overheal every and any content with a good templar. With the new ultimate limitations, the fights lasting longer and the nerf to healing + removal of softcaps, sorcs are more needed than before. Negate Might be nerfed but it still removes *** from the ground.
In 1.5, you didn't need negate, you could use Nova after Nova and overheal every and any content with a good templar. With the new ultimate limitations, the fights lasting longer and the nerf to healing + removal of softcaps, sorcs are more needed than before. Negate Might be nerfed but it still removes *** from the ground.
Imo what will happen is exactly what happened to pre-1.6: guilds and players will improve until negate is not needed any more again.
Yesterday we have done 1 run at 2nd AA boss without a negate and succeeded. Killing adds works and now time is not harshly penalized in trials as it used to be.
On last boss we had 1 dead sorc and missed 1 nova. Still brought her to 2% with 1 negate.
Pretty sure that in due time we'll get back to "zero negate needed" situation.
Agree. That's what makes me so confused some days, people were so upset about the state of Sorcs in 1.5 (which I can kinda understand) but then the same people are often seen here complaining that too much changed. So backwards imo. The Sorc class needed big changes
Rook_Master wrote: »People cried and cried and cried about the Crit Surge changes. But now that Impen is gone, people are getting 7k+ heals with Wrecking Blow, etc. in AvA.
Sorcs were not nerfed, they were just changed. 1.6 is a new game, you will have to adapt, or go the way of the dinosaur.
I agree 100% with Magnus.
scy22b14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are overpowered. And they are the loudest group of whiners on the forums. Their whole strategy is to complain loud and long, "pretending" they're broken, so as to keep their ridiculously powerful status.
The only ones fooled by this garbage is ZOS. Problem is, it's working.
Anyone who has played the game for any reasonable amount of time (so ZOS is out right away) knows that a good sorcerer is basically unbeatable, unless completely outnumbered. And in a lot of those cases, they can just bolt escape away to safety. Unless of course another sorc is chasing them.
They're a smart bunch though, i'll give them that. Their ploy works like a charm with the idiots over at ZOS.
I don't think a single PvP sorc has posted on the forums since patch 1.6. It's all about PvE issues.
scy22b14_ESO wrote: »That definitely isn't the case. The point however remains. Sorcs need to be gutted in PVP.
So just yesterday you tell us that Sorcerers suck in PvE and they weren't OVERnerfed.Sorcs weren't overnerfed. They are still very strong in PVP when played by SKILLED players and they still suck in PVE, nothing new here
No difference. It wasn't acceptable then and it isn't now." But I'm pullin less DPS than other classes:" What's the difference with 1.5?
Awesome, so if that is not a problem for other people then there is no reason for Sorcerers shouldn't be 2-3K ahead of classes that are already the best at Tanking and Healing.I don't really see why care if the DPS of the sorc is 2-3k below others
Speaking only for myself I have absolutely no problem accepting changes. I can honestly say I enjoy playing the class more now than I did in 1.5People who can't stand the fact they need to change their way to play have no empathy from me since we're all in the same boat.
Conclusion:
At best you can say it still sucks as much as before
Nightreaver wrote: »So just yesterday you tell us that Sorcerers suck in PvE and they weren't OVERnerfed.Sorcs weren't overnerfed. They are still very strong in PVP when played by SKILLED players and they still suck in PVE, nothing new here
Ok, did I miss an update today? What changed between yesterday and today?No difference. It wasn't acceptable then and it isn't now." But I'm pullin less DPS than other classes:" What's the difference with 1.5?
Well ok, that's not completely true. It is acceptable to the classes that do more DPS than Sorcerers.Awesome, so if that is not a problem for other people then there is no reason for Sorcerers shouldn't be 2-3K ahead of classes that are already the best at Tanking and Healing.I don't really see why care if the DPS of the sorc is 2-3k below othersSpeaking only for myself I have absolutely no problem accepting changes. I can honestly say I enjoy playing the class more now than I did in 1.5People who can't stand the fact they need to change their way to play have no empathy from me since we're all in the same boat.
I can accept nerfs (yes there were some, all classes got them to some degree while getting buffed in other areas) as long as they resulted in better game balance. But at least in the case of Sorcerers that didn't happen, they still remain behind.
But to say we're all in the same boat? Maybe in the sense that Sorcerers are down below sweating in the engine room while you're up sunning yourself sipping umbrella drinks from the poolside then sure. But to imply Sorcerers are in the same state as DK's and Temps? No, not buying that.
Conclusion:
At best you can say it still sucks as much as before
Well I guess that pretty much sums it up doesn't it?
Agree. That's what makes me so confused some days, people were so upset about the state of Sorcs in 1.5 (which I can kinda understand) but then the same people are often seen here complaining that too much changed. So backwards imo. The Sorc class needed big changes
The confusion comes from one misunderstanding. 1.5 sorcs were as happy as angels about their class gameplay. Sure, subpar DPS made them worthless for TehMagnus pro-guilds but 99.9% are not pro nor play in pro guilds.
Sure, you could spec in a 2 button boring thing. But the "I can DPS and heal and... and... and... and...." possibilities were fun and made the class a joy to play.
All what PvE sorcs asked was: keep the class the same, just spice up DPS a little.
What changed is that ZoS totally changed the class. Sure, now we have plenty of diverse spells to play with... but in the end it's "DoT 1 DoT 2 DoT 3 / Instant 1 Instant 2 Instant 3", but the awesome ability to do SO MANY THINGS in any given fight is gone.
Now, we could still use some PvE DPS spicing up (as in pre-1.6) but we completely lost the versatile gameplay.
I could basically play all roles-in-one in an arena run, could be called-at-a-snap to off-heal during a trial fight. Now it's all gone.
scy22b14_ESO wrote: »Sorcs are overpowered. And they are the loudest group of whiners on the forums. Their whole strategy is to complain loud and long, "pretending" they're broken, so as to keep their ridiculously powerful status.
The only ones fooled by this garbage is ZOS. Problem is, it's working.
Anyone who has played the game for any reasonable amount of time (so ZOS is out right away) knows that a good sorcerer is basically unbeatable, unless completely outnumbered. And in a lot of those cases, they can just bolt escape away to safety. Unless of course another sorc is chasing them.
They're a smart bunch though, i'll give them that. Their ploy works like a charm with the idiots over at ZOS.
I don't think a single PvP sorc has posted on the forums since patch 1.6. It's all about PvE issues.