Hey there folks,
We understand that sorcerers are a heated point of discussion right now, but we ask that the discussion stays related to the topic's original intention. Personal jabs don't add anything constructive to the thread and only serve to derail the discussion. We'd love to be sure everyone's opinion is heard, but please be respectful of other points of view when adding your own. Thanks for your understanding!
Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »crystal shard still sucks and now is worse off since its closest compairison was solar flare whcih was buffed to the *** moon.
Really? What do you base it on that crystal shard still sucks? My crystal frags can hit for 24k+ on crits.
pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
The evidence has been posted in forums by people like @pppontus and there are plenty of good builds in Tamriel Foundry pulling 8-11k DPS (which is much more than the guys i've seen pull 3-6k Dps in AA and HRC), in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPsWtB6spvI you can see templar stamina pulling 13K DPs which is more than most magicka sets from other classes will be pulled on that boss.
As for "the stats" in page 4, it concerns PVP sorcs and if there is still debate about PVE sorcs bein nerfed or not, they are extremely good in PVP at the moment. I commented tonight in teamspeak in a Hardcore PVP guild that people where complaining about sorcs on forums and everybody was just plain laughing out loud because of how ridiculously good they are in PVP.
I didn't back off my thread. Sorcs aren't nerfed it's a fact, and in worst case scenario which won't be proven for months, they will end up as useless as they used to be and in that case people should complain that changes are not enough, not that the class was nerfed since if you compare PVE or PVP, it's not true. You just can't play it as you used to, and if you refuse to conform that's your problem and not related to the class being nerfed.
As for 'this thread deserves bla bla bla" you're plain and simply refusing to acknowledge that it's not all about numbers and the leaderboard points aren't just about pulling top DPS which means skill and decent DPS will be more important than uber top DPS. I've been saying this over and over again, all you keep talking about is numbers. Makes me wonder if you're trying to argue or just complain a bit more that you don't like how sorcs are.
"Even if sorcs stayed the same and others classes where buffed": Only templar DPS seems stronger, all other classes are nerfed and Light armor is nerfed. Moreover, the fact you even think you can easily compare 1.5 to 1.6 means you understand nothing of the changes introduced into the game.
The title is designed simply to stop the endless, tiresome and unfounded constant whining from people who prefer to complain instead of Learning how to Play because others are obviously succeeding at it, and I don't see the difference between this OP title and the one from the post" Sorcs where nerfed... again". I don't see you either posting over there on your holly white horse defending the honor of ZOS developers that are being provoked by a couple of angry people.
pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
The evidence has been posted in forums by people like @pppontus and there are plenty of good builds in Tamriel Foundry pulling 8-11k DPS (which is much more than the guys i've seen pull 3-6k Dps in AA and HRC), in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPsWtB6spvI you can see templar stamina pulling 13K DPs which is more than most magicka sets from other classes will be pulled on that boss.
As for "the stats" in page 4, it's ridiculous you consider them as evidence since it concerns PVP sorcs and if there is one place where there is no contest that sorcs are OP, it's PVP. I commented tonight in teamspeak in a Hardcore PVP guild that people where complaining about sorcs on forums and everybody was just plain laughing out loud because of how ridiculously good they are in PVP.
I didn't back off my thread. Sorcs aren't nerfed it's a fact, and in worst case scenario which won't be proven for months, they will end up as useless as they used to be and in that case people should complain that changes are not enough, not that the class was nerfed since if you compare PVE or PVP, it's not true. You just can't play it as you used to, and if you refuse to conform that's your problem and not related to the class being nerfed.
As for 'this thread deserves bla bla bla" you're plain and simply refusing to acknowledge that it's not all about numbers and the leaderboard points aren't just about pulling top DPS which means skill and decent DPS will be more important than uber top DPS. I've been saying this over and over again, all you keep talking about is numbers. Makes me wonder if you're trying to argue or just complain a bit more that you don't like how sorcs are.
"Even if sorcs stayed the same and others classes where buffed": Only templar DPS seems stronger, all other classes are nerfed and Light armor is nerfed. Moreover, the fact you even think you can easily compare 1.5 to 1.6 means you understand nothing of the changes introduced into the game.
In then end, you've got people complaining about their old playstyle not working when others have prooven that the class is viable and capable of good DPS and utility in PVE as in PVP, and you raid leaders of top raiding guilds who have always said sorcs sucked and needed buff who are stating that sorcs aren't nerfed.
Keep believing what you want, I'm done talking to you. I doubt ZOS will buff sorcs and in any case with your set of mind, any buff they introduce will never be enough. At least meanwhile others will be enjoying themselves and partaking in raids.
pugyourself wrote: »
The problem for the vast majority of players though, is that it IS just about numbers. While you are may be at the top of the leaderboards (probably not with your sorc), the average player has a very tough time getting daily groups because everyone DOES focus solely on the numbers. Or on the class. So for those who run their main as a Sorc DPS, it's not easy to get a group. Because the numbers generally stink when compared to other classes.
For someone with a microphone as large as yours, it would have been more constructive to say "Sorcs still stink but they weren't nerfed." The title has the potential to simply confirm to ZOS and others that nothing needs to change with the class. The point of the Sorc complaint threads has been to compare the class to other classes that are much more powerful, have better and cheaper self heals, and were buffed at the same time that the most useful sorc skills were nerfed. If Sorcs received some buffs and self heals in the last update, I don't think you'd be seeing those threads.
pugyourself wrote: »Maybe that would work for the top groups but it's not going to fix the situation for the guy in Wayrest looking to do a daily.
Other classes received numerous buffs over the last few updates. Sorcs did not.
I question the purpose of this thread. Truly. It seems to serve no purpose other than to agitate and pour salt in the wounds of thousands of players who feel like their class has been decimated relative to other classes.
kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
The evidence has been posted in forums by people like @pppontus and there are plenty of good builds in Tamriel Foundry pulling 8-11k DPS (which is much more than the guys i've seen pull 3-6k Dps in AA and HRC), in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPsWtB6spvI you can see templar stamina pulling 13K DPs which is more than most magicka sets from other classes will be pulled on that boss.
As for "the stats" in page 4, it's ridiculous you consider them as evidence since it concerns PVP sorcs and if there is one place where there is no contest that sorcs are OP, it's PVP. I commented tonight in teamspeak in a Hardcore PVP guild that people where complaining about sorcs on forums and everybody was just plain laughing out loud because of how ridiculously good they are in PVP.
I didn't back off my thread. Sorcs aren't nerfed it's a fact, and in worst case scenario which won't be proven for months, they will end up as useless as they used to be and in that case people should complain that changes are not enough, not that the class was nerfed since if you compare PVE or PVP, it's not true. You just can't play it as you used to, and if you refuse to conform that's your problem and not related to the class being nerfed.
As for 'this thread deserves bla bla bla" you're plain and simply refusing to acknowledge that it's not all about numbers and the leaderboard points aren't just about pulling top DPS which means skill and decent DPS will be more important than uber top DPS. I've been saying this over and over again, all you keep talking about is numbers. Makes me wonder if you're trying to argue or just complain a bit more that you don't like how sorcs are.
"Even if sorcs stayed the same and others classes where buffed": Only templar DPS seems stronger, all other classes are nerfed and Light armor is nerfed. Moreover, the fact you even think you can easily compare 1.5 to 1.6 means you understand nothing of the changes introduced into the game.
In then end, you've got people complaining about their old playstyle not working when others have prooven that the class is viable and capable of good DPS and utility in PVE as in PVP, and you raid leaders of top raiding guilds who have always said sorcs sucked and needed buff who are stating that sorcs aren't nerfed.
Keep believing what you want, I'm done talking to you. I doubt ZOS will buff sorcs and in any case with your set of mind, any buff they introduce will never be enough. At least meanwhile others will be enjoying themselves and partaking in raids.
The biggest concern is see here with this video is that the dps here isn't related to a Stam sorc.
The dps here is a representation of any class that specs into 2h weapon.
So perhaps what sorcs need is no stam based morphs, but instead have weapon skills based off their magika.
In fact in the era of togglemancy, how about we change one of the surge morphs into a 20sec buff that does just that.... makes sorcs who use melee weapons now scale their damage based off of magika rather that stamina?
kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
The evidence has been posted in forums by people like @pppontus and there are plenty of good builds in Tamriel Foundry pulling 8-11k DPS (which is much more than the guys i've seen pull 3-6k Dps in AA and HRC), in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPsWtB6spvI you can see templar stamina pulling 13K DPs which is more than most magicka sets from other classes will be pulled on that boss.
As for "the stats" in page 4, it's ridiculous you consider them as evidence since it concerns PVP sorcs and if there is one place where there is no contest that sorcs are OP, it's PVP. I commented tonight in teamspeak in a Hardcore PVP guild that people where complaining about sorcs on forums and everybody was just plain laughing out loud because of how ridiculously good they are in PVP.
I didn't back off my thread. Sorcs aren't nerfed it's a fact, and in worst case scenario which won't be proven for months, they will end up as useless as they used to be and in that case people should complain that changes are not enough, not that the class was nerfed since if you compare PVE or PVP, it's not true. You just can't play it as you used to, and if you refuse to conform that's your problem and not related to the class being nerfed.
As for 'this thread deserves bla bla bla" you're plain and simply refusing to acknowledge that it's not all about numbers and the leaderboard points aren't just about pulling top DPS which means skill and decent DPS will be more important than uber top DPS. I've been saying this over and over again, all you keep talking about is numbers. Makes me wonder if you're trying to argue or just complain a bit more that you don't like how sorcs are.
"Even if sorcs stayed the same and others classes where buffed": Only templar DPS seems stronger, all other classes are nerfed and Light armor is nerfed. Moreover, the fact you even think you can easily compare 1.5 to 1.6 means you understand nothing of the changes introduced into the game.
In then end, you've got people complaining about their old playstyle not working when others have prooven that the class is viable and capable of good DPS and utility in PVE as in PVP, and you raid leaders of top raiding guilds who have always said sorcs sucked and needed buff who are stating that sorcs aren't nerfed.
Keep believing what you want, I'm done talking to you. I doubt ZOS will buff sorcs and in any case with your set of mind, any buff they introduce will never be enough. At least meanwhile others will be enjoying themselves and partaking in raids.
The biggest concern is see here with this video is that the dps here isn't related to a Stam sorc.
The dps here is a representation of any class that specs into 2h weapon.
So perhaps what sorcs need is no stam based morphs, but instead have weapon skills based off their magika.
In fact in the era of togglemancy, how about we change one of the surge morphs into a 20sec buff that does just that.... makes sorcs who use melee weapons now scale their damage based off of magika rather that stamina?
Exactly right, you nailed it as it has nothing to do with sorc class skills. The OP throws up numbers that have no bearing on his assertions and then bashes another poster for their "fixation" with numbers. On paper, a stamina sorc is capable of putting up similar DPS in PvP through use of non-class skills, yet it is so lacking in terms of survivability and sustainability that the potential DPS doesn't matter.
By the rate of nonsensical responses, I think the OP is quickly working towards his 2,500 comments badge
If the new leaderboard isn't working as I think it is and as I think Zenimax designed it, and sorcs end up being not needed to achieve good scores, then I'll be the on the train to change the leaderboards point calculations to force groups to take sorcs because it actually can be done that way.
If the new leaderboard isn't working as I think it is and as I think Zenimax designed it, and sorcs end up being not needed to achieve good scores, then I'll be the on the train to change the leaderboards point calculations to force groups to take sorcs because it actually can be done that way.
I have not done a sorc-less HR run yet, but in AA as I posted earlier it's plenty possible even now to do what's needed with 1 sorc. The process of slowly removing sorcs from raids needed many months pre-1.6, yet now just a couple of days past patch 1.6 it's already possible to do with just one.
Once people will get appropriate CPs and the new "raiding docrine" will have settled in, then bye bye need to negate. You'll always want templars, they bring in nova etc, so the next step at min maxing is to remove the inefficiencies.
Also, today I have played for 6 hours. The "anti-sorc stigma" has already settled in. I have seen all the tricks being used, like: "magic DPS LFG...", "mage LFG...", "Light armor DPS LFG..."... everything to avoid saying the class name, hoping they get you in the group first, and then feel embarassed enough at kicking you that they give you a chance.
Also, as many say, very few even care about the forums. People won't get affected by some threads ZoS quickly buries in some obscure sub-forum anyway. But takes very little to understand, to the MANY that PUG every day to consistently experience a class with low health, that dies in 2 hits to any VR mob, that used to at least be versatile and sturdy to make up for the low DPS and now can't even do that.
I REALLY hope to be wrong here. Because ZoS has indeed your approach: "let's make months and months pass doing nothing, then if they REALLY are screwed, we'll buff some marginal skill. Maybe".
kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
The evidence has been posted in forums by people like @pppontus and there are plenty of good builds in Tamriel Foundry pulling 8-11k DPS (which is much more than the guys i've seen pull 3-6k Dps in AA and HRC), in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPsWtB6spvI you can see templar stamina pulling 13K DPs which is more than most magicka sets from other classes will be pulled on that boss.
As for "the stats" in page 4, it's ridiculous you consider them as evidence since it concerns PVP sorcs and if there is one place where there is no contest that sorcs are OP, it's PVP. I commented tonight in teamspeak in a Hardcore PVP guild that people where complaining about sorcs on forums and everybody was just plain laughing out loud because of how ridiculously good they are in PVP.
I didn't back off my thread. Sorcs aren't nerfed it's a fact, and in worst case scenario which won't be proven for months, they will end up as useless as they used to be and in that case people should complain that changes are not enough, not that the class was nerfed since if you compare PVE or PVP, it's not true. You just can't play it as you used to, and if you refuse to conform that's your problem and not related to the class being nerfed.
As for 'this thread deserves bla bla bla" you're plain and simply refusing to acknowledge that it's not all about numbers and the leaderboard points aren't just about pulling top DPS which means skill and decent DPS will be more important than uber top DPS. I've been saying this over and over again, all you keep talking about is numbers. Makes me wonder if you're trying to argue or just complain a bit more that you don't like how sorcs are.
"Even if sorcs stayed the same and others classes where buffed": Only templar DPS seems stronger, all other classes are nerfed and Light armor is nerfed. Moreover, the fact you even think you can easily compare 1.5 to 1.6 means you understand nothing of the changes introduced into the game.
In then end, you've got people complaining about their old playstyle not working when others have prooven that the class is viable and capable of good DPS and utility in PVE as in PVP, and you raid leaders of top raiding guilds who have always said sorcs sucked and needed buff who are stating that sorcs aren't nerfed.
Keep believing what you want, I'm done talking to you. I doubt ZOS will buff sorcs and in any case with your set of mind, any buff they introduce will never be enough. At least meanwhile others will be enjoying themselves and partaking in raids.
The biggest concern is see here with this video is that the dps here isn't related to a Stam sorc.
The dps here is a representation of any class that specs into 2h weapon.
So perhaps what sorcs need is no stam based morphs, but instead have weapon skills based off their magika.
In fact in the era of togglemancy, how about we change one of the surge morphs into a 20sec buff that does just that.... makes sorcs who use melee weapons now scale their damage based off of magika rather that stamina?
Exactly right, you nailed it as it has nothing to do with sorc class skills. The OP throws up numbers that have no bearing on his assertions and then bashes another poster for their "fixation" with numbers. On paper, a stamina sorc is capable of putting up similar DPS in PvP through use of non-class skills, yet it is so lacking in terms of survivability and sustainability that the potential DPS doesn't matter.
By the rate of nonsensical responses, I think the OP is quickly working towards his 2,500 comments badge
I already have the badge.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ <= 12K DPs
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-6-the-unholy-herdsman-thelons-pet-build/ <= 11k DPS
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/ <=12K DPS with 70 CP (so a couple K more I suppose with 90 & crit bonus)
These values are on par with most current magicka builds and are probably not fully optimized, there is also a strong chance people with even better builds are not sharing them, after all it took us months to release our exact FOO build for DKs.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/forum/classes/sorcerer-class/ <= A place to discuss builds & learn instead of complaining about imaginary nerfs.
If the new leaderboard isn't working as I think it is and as I think Zenimax designed it, and sorcs end up being not needed to achieve good scores, then I'll be the on the train to change the leaderboards point calculations to force groups to take sorcs because it actually can be done that way.
I have not done a sorc-less HR run yet, but in AA as I posted earlier it's plenty possible even now to do what's needed with 1 sorc. The process of slowly removing sorcs from raids needed many months pre-1.6, yet now just a couple of days past patch 1.6 it's already possible to do with just one.
Once people will get appropriate CPs and the new "raiding docrine" will have settled in, then bye bye need to negate. You'll always want templars, they bring in nova etc, so the next step at min maxing is to remove the inefficiencies.
Also, today I have played for 6 hours. The "anti-sorc stigma" has already settled in. I have seen all the tricks being used, like: "magic DPS LFG...", "mage LFG...", "Light armor DPS LFG..."... everything to avoid saying the class name, hoping they get you in the group first, and then feel embarassed enough at kicking you that they give you a chance.
Also, as many say, very few even care about the forums. People won't get affected by some threads ZoS quickly buries in some obscure sub-forum anyway. But takes very little to understand, to the MANY that PUG every day to consistently experience a class with low health, that dies in 2 hits to any VR mob, that used to at least be versatile and sturdy to make up for the low DPS and now can't even do that. The "random guys consensus" will greatly affect the ability of sorc players to enjoy the game, expecially since Craplorn has been made with that dumb "MUST GROUP" mentality.
I REALLY hope to be wrong here. Because ZoS has indeed your approach: "let's make months and months pass doing nothing, then if they REALLY are screwed, we'll buff some marginal skill. Maybe".
If you expect to use the same build from 1.5 and have it still work in 1.6, you can be damn sure it won't work
kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »pugyourself wrote: »OP, do you have anything besides hot air to back up your assertions? Many posters have cast doubt on your assertions by providing combat numbers. Can you please screenshot some stats that back up your assertions?
Please provide and numbers provided by posters since I've seen none. All I see is people saying "my old build doesn't work" which, once again, is true for the other classes as well and doesn't mean the class was nerfed, just look at templar DPS, their old builds dun work, yet they are pulling insane DPS.
And I actually provided some numbers as well as an explanation you seem to have fixed that states that DPS is no longer the most important thing in trials which is why small differences don't actually matter.
I've tested the system and the raids since 1.6 came on PTS and I've been testing the leaderboard system to see exactly what makes it tick, what do you or any other sorc that hasn't been raiding in 1.5 because they struggled to get a group have to back up your/their assertions about the viability of Sorcs in raids?
I saw some combat stats on page four of this thread. While not verbose, it's a lot more "evidence" than you have provided to back up your controversial assertions.
I noticed you backed off your thread title a bit and responded to another poster that because "Sorcs were useless then and are useless now" that somehow your thread title is accurate. Even if sorcs stayed the same and other classes were buffed, that's a de facto nerf for sorcs.
This thread deserves to be nerfed as it is an opinion piece masquerading as fact with absolutely no evidence to back up what you are saying. The title is designed simply to provoke the thousands of sorcs who are not happy about their class being nerfed.
The evidence has been posted in forums by people like @pppontus and there are plenty of good builds in Tamriel Foundry pulling 8-11k DPS (which is much more than the guys i've seen pull 3-6k Dps in AA and HRC), in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPsWtB6spvI you can see templar stamina pulling 13K DPs which is more than most magicka sets from other classes will be pulled on that boss.
As for "the stats" in page 4, it's ridiculous you consider them as evidence since it concerns PVP sorcs and if there is one place where there is no contest that sorcs are OP, it's PVP. I commented tonight in teamspeak in a Hardcore PVP guild that people where complaining about sorcs on forums and everybody was just plain laughing out loud because of how ridiculously good they are in PVP.
I didn't back off my thread. Sorcs aren't nerfed it's a fact, and in worst case scenario which won't be proven for months, they will end up as useless as they used to be and in that case people should complain that changes are not enough, not that the class was nerfed since if you compare PVE or PVP, it's not true. You just can't play it as you used to, and if you refuse to conform that's your problem and not related to the class being nerfed.
As for 'this thread deserves bla bla bla" you're plain and simply refusing to acknowledge that it's not all about numbers and the leaderboard points aren't just about pulling top DPS which means skill and decent DPS will be more important than uber top DPS. I've been saying this over and over again, all you keep talking about is numbers. Makes me wonder if you're trying to argue or just complain a bit more that you don't like how sorcs are.
"Even if sorcs stayed the same and others classes where buffed": Only templar DPS seems stronger, all other classes are nerfed and Light armor is nerfed. Moreover, the fact you even think you can easily compare 1.5 to 1.6 means you understand nothing of the changes introduced into the game.
In then end, you've got people complaining about their old playstyle not working when others have prooven that the class is viable and capable of good DPS and utility in PVE as in PVP, and you raid leaders of top raiding guilds who have always said sorcs sucked and needed buff who are stating that sorcs aren't nerfed.
Keep believing what you want, I'm done talking to you. I doubt ZOS will buff sorcs and in any case with your set of mind, any buff they introduce will never be enough. At least meanwhile others will be enjoying themselves and partaking in raids.
The biggest concern is see here with this video is that the dps here isn't related to a Stam sorc.
The dps here is a representation of any class that specs into 2h weapon.
So perhaps what sorcs need is no stam based morphs, but instead have weapon skills based off their magika.
In fact in the era of togglemancy, how about we change one of the surge morphs into a 20sec buff that does just that.... makes sorcs who use melee weapons now scale their damage based off of magika rather that stamina?
Exactly right, you nailed it as it has nothing to do with sorc class skills. The OP throws up numbers that have no bearing on his assertions and then bashes another poster for their "fixation" with numbers. On paper, a stamina sorc is capable of putting up similar DPS in PvP through use of non-class skills, yet it is so lacking in terms of survivability and sustainability that the potential DPS doesn't matter.
By the rate of nonsensical responses, I think the OP is quickly working towards his 2,500 comments badge
I already have the badge.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-x-nyblings-magicka-based-sorc-dps-champion-rank-71/ <= 12K DPs
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-6-the-unholy-herdsman-thelons-pet-build/ <= 11k DPS
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/1-6-sorceress-petless-by-pppontus-70-cp/ <=12K DPS with 70 CP (so a couple K more I suppose with 90 & crit bonus)
These values are on par with most current magicka builds and are probably not fully optimized, there is also a strong chance people with even better builds are not sharing them, after all it took us months to release our exact FOO build for DKs.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/forum/classes/sorcerer-class/ <= A place to discuss builds & learn instead of complaining about imaginary nerfs.
Yep, and not a single one of those is a stamina sorc build which happens to be what I have been discussing. Go play a stamina sorc in PvP for 6+ months as I have, then you can come back and have an intelligent discussion on what sorcs need or don't need. Enjoy your DK and congrats on your post achievement?
joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »Nerfed my ass. I'm beginning to see sorcs taking unlimited damage with perm shields and unlimited magicka bolting all over the place. Just watch any of king Richards videos and that's the norm on thornblade!
They are actually more useful than before.
"But I die faster": Everybody in LA dies faster. Not a sorc nerf, global nerf.
"But Negate was nerfed": It wasn't really needed anywhere anyways in PVE and was overpowered in PVP (wher sorcs feel stronger than b4, those that know how to play anyways).
"But x Skill was nerfed": It wasn't nerfed it was changed as where many others. If you expect to use the same build from 1.5 and have it still work in 1.6, you can be damn sure it won't work, then again, it's the same for other classes, not Sorc nerf, just a new game.
" But I'm pullin less DPS than other classes:" What's the difference with 1.5?
" But the DPS difference is wider than before": It actually isn't when you're using a good build and it's a very subjective statement since all the values have changed and many people are still testing things.
Conclusion:
Sorc wasn't nerfed. At best you can say it still sucks as much as before, and IMO it's too soon to tell.
Now please stop spamming the forum with your QQ posts and biased polls. Ask for buffs I can understand, but crying and complaining about "nerfs" just because you're frustrated that you're still not OP is annoying and counter-productive. Remember that the game just basically relaunched and people are still testing stuff. Instead of complaining over here, your time would be better spent trying to create a good build or figuring out and giving feedback on some aspects that could help buffing the class a little bit.
Edit:
A class viability isn't determined by comparing Healing/damage/CC capacities between 1.5 and 1.6 it's determined by the overall usefulness of the class in 1.6 compared to the overall usefulness of the class in 1.5 and after less than 2 weeks of 1.6 it's too soon to say that Sorcs where nerfed in PVE since we are barely scratching the surface of the new leaderboard system.
Well just because people are stu*** it doesn't justify asking for buffs on a class that doesn't need them nor implies that the class has been nerfed.
Edit: moreover I highly doubt that most of the players in pug runs are pulling 11-12k dps on bosses from what I've been told people link DPS from 4 to 7k most of the time, so anyone pulling that kind of DPS is likely better than half of the other people in the raid.
kokoandshinb14a_ESO wrote: »Ok-- again if people have to wait to gain a measurable amount of CP to make a class viable, then that wait may be too long for many people.
Its my understanding that CPs take a long, long time to grind, therefore most of the newer sorcerer player base may be turned off by this and move to classes that have their power spikes much earlier.
Exactly as TehMagnus says, by posting all these NERF threads and crying you are all just making this problem worse for everyone as you make people think Sorcs are bad when they are not anymore. So if you get excluded, maybe look at how you caused that yourselves.