Community Vision and Increased Moderation

TehMagnus · February 2015

xMovingTarget wrote: »

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Gyudan wrote: »

What is the proper amount of emotes required to mark the difference between irony/sarcasm and bannable offense?

Is lore-based hate still allowed? Can we still joke about orcs (pig-children), khajiits (thieves), argonians (slaves), nords (barbarians), altmers (daedra-worshippers), bretons (greedy) and bosmers (cannibals) ?

I literally cant stop to Call argonians slaves.

Think this is going to be the hardest part

Elsonso · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think this is in anticipation of the B2P launch in March. Less about the people currently here.

Yes.

I am sure they are not looking forward to the flood of people coming in next month. They are probably also preparing themselves for clashes between the old players and the new ones.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Once you receive a warning for any moderation action, you will be suspended for 72 hours on your next offense. Any violation after your suspension will result in a permanent ban from our forums (note that this will not affect your in-game status).

@ZOS_GinaBruno, I do have questions on permanent bans, and I don't want to have to test it out to find out what happens. Maybe these can be answered, maybe not.

Can permanent bans by bypassed by simply creating a new account? (Additional purchase may be required)

Is this a three-strikes zero tolerance forum? Are all ToS infractions the same weight? If someone has 2 strikes for excessive profanity in the forum (ie abusive) but then says that they saw @player using an exploit in the game and runs afoul of "naming and shaming", are they out?

Last, do infractions expire? If @player runs her mouth off and gets a 72 hr timeout, then has a moderation action 2 years later for something else, is that strike three?

Navaya · February 2015

I once Started a Discussion, the first 4 comments where from 4 raging people. I did not feel Welcomed at all. Good thing that Zenimax notice these annoying people and maybe we can make posts in the future without having people harassing other people for their suggestions and such.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the mods will soon be here. And I for one welcome our new overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted forum personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground skooma caves.

Darlgon · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I was on the player council of LOTRO. Me and one of the other main voices on the forum disliked a change. I wrote up an entire book (kidding like 4 pages) of why I didnt like the change and how it would badly affect the game. Without as much as a warning I was perm banned and so was another player council member. Then they revoked our seats on the player council.

6 months later the guy who did it was fired. I was offered my seat back on the council. I declined. It was obvious the player council was only supposed to be "yes" men. So 1 year later I dont even play LOTRO anymore and now am a fan os ESO.

So yes sometimes a person with power can go a little crazy. Lets hope that doesnt happen here.

Yes.. those of us who are Lotro survivors are here in force, and VERY leary of these changes, even if needed to pre-emp problems from F2P.. err B2P. Just out of curiosity, who were you there? Obviously, I was Darlgon there and here.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

Darlgon wrote: »

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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I was on the player council of LOTRO. Me and one of the other main voices on the forum disliked a change. I wrote up an entire book (kidding like 4 pages) of why I didnt like the change and how it would badly affect the game. Without as much as a warning I was perm banned and so was another player council member. Then they revoked our seats on the player council.

6 months later the guy who did it was fired. I was offered my seat back on the council. I declined. It was obvious the player council was only supposed to be "yes" men. So 1 year later I dont even play LOTRO anymore and now am a fan os ESO.

So yes sometimes a person with power can go a little crazy. Lets hope that doesnt happen here.

Yes.. those of us who are Lotro survivors are here in force, and VERY leary of these changes, even if needed to pre-emp problems from F2P.. err B2P. Just out of curiosity, who were you there? Obviously, I was Darlgon there and here.

My name was Gareth420 there.

Sacadon · February 2015

What I use to help me know what is and is not acceptable, which I'm not always successful at accomplishing... As long as what you're about to post you'd say to someone interviewing you for a professional job, then it's almost always appropriate for forums. Yeah, as with most things there are gray areas. But you can accomplish communication without having to walk such lines.

HeroOfNone · February 2015

Regarding cross post linking, is it always the case that you shouldn't link other posts to another? As someone that puts up multiple hame play suggestions I try to post up links of not just mine, but other suggestions that might be related to a new post topic. Or when a topic is trending, leading folks to a topic that has a majority of answers and discussion. I don't think it's been a nuisance do far, but if you'd clarify I'll try not to cross a line if it is.

prototypefb · February 2015

what a shame, now i'll have to spend more time actually playing the game...
i'm guessing forums will die out soon after first 100 of Ginas swings.
this is just too harsh, i get it trolls are powerfull in ESO but nerfing them is no fun

anyhow i hope game will be spot on on update 6 and no mor ecomplaints/suggestions will be necessary xD

may i complain we don't have monthly suggestion thread?

Cogo · February 2015

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

The particular corporations we are dealing with here are of course people. People working and living in a rather totalitarian environment. Which seems to be driven by fear.

Fear of giving away secrets, fear of being misunderstood, fear of letting their agendas show, fear of competition, fear of bad press, fear of recession, fear of regress and fear of failure.

And just like an individual would behave under such an enormous stress, instead of taking themselves back and relaxing, they go all defensive and deal preemptive strikes to protect what they fear to lose.

When dealing with an individual, you'd say it's a pathological state of mind. When dealing with corporations or even nations, it's just business as usual and they're just getting things done, that need to be done.

What the kittah said....

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2015

Bleakraven wrote: »

Could we get a suggestions category, maybe? Or perhaps even add some sort of agree/disagree for those suggestions? That way you could quickly see if what someone suggested is highly agreed with or not.

Yep, we are exploring the option of adding a Disagree option (you know, so you can either Agree or Disagree), among a few other changes to the Reaction flags. These will likely come after the forum visual overhaul.

lordrichter wrote: »

On a related topic, I would like to bring up a comment from another thread. When the moderators drop into a topic to moderate it, can this not show up with a green marker on the list of topics? It would be cool if that identified threads with on topic dev response.

That's a good idea. We'll look into making it so!

Audigy wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

In general I think, that the forum got less toxic over the past few months, bar the attacks on ZO officials of course.
I had to report one or two people every week after release and the mods always stepped in. Those reports however have now become rare, I don't know why - but I don't get the rude and toxic replies anymore or I just don't see them

Therefore I am a bit surprised that this is actually a topic in the ZOS office now

Personally I have never been banned in any forums and see myself as a friendly person, but its always a tough job to distinguish between irony, sarcasm or an insult in someone's post.

I remember I posted a funny "Vampire" story under one of @MornaBaine post - it was a joke for me, but I never found out how she saw it.

The danger in general that I see now is, how some members could start reporting such posts to get rid of people they don't like, so I wonder how this will be handled in future and how strict also the "reporters" will be monitored?

I am all for punishing people that are rude and post nonsense, but its going to be a tough job and highly dependent on the mods mood as well, so I wish you guys luck with catching the right ones

When we get a reported post, we always review it within the context of the thread before taking any action. We won't action against someone if we feel the report isn't justified.

lordrichter wrote: »

Can permanent bans by bypassed by simply creating a new account? (Additional purchase may be required)

Is this a three-strikes zero tolerance forum? Are all ToS infractions the same weight? If someone has 2 strikes for excessive profanity in the forum (ie abusive) but then says that they saw @player using an exploit in the game and runs afoul of "naming and shaming", are they out?

Last, do infractions expire? If @player runs her mouth off and gets a 72 hr timeout, then has a moderation action 2 years later for something else, is that strike three?

Bans cannot be bypassed by simply creating a new account. Currently, you must be invited to the forums in order to post, and this will continue after we release Tamriel Unlimited.

The three-strikes rule encompasses all violations. As far as infractions expiring, that's something we definitely want to explore as the forums continue to grow over time. We don't think it's fair for something to carry over from years ago.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

Hypothetically if someone who got an infraction was to send cookies to ZOS HQ with attn Gina on them could that get the infraction removed?

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2015

Also everyone, as we mentioned in the original post, please review the Community Rules if you're ever unsure about something you're about to post. They're long, but they do answer a lot of your specific questions and examples.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/60843/community-code-of-conduct/

Islyn · February 2015

Reddit will be an ESO hub for serious and sometimes heated ESO discussion even moreso than now - I bet.

MorHawk · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yep, we are exploring the option of readding a Disagree option

Just had to fix that. I'm surprised, after all the heat that got it removed in the first place.

DeLindsay · February 2015

The problem isn't that ZoS wants to increase Moderation and enforce the rules more stringently it's that the Mods are not universally acting on said rules. One post gets removed while another post in a different thread with very similar comments remains. If the Mods are going to wield the almighty ban hammer they need to do so universally and with complete impartiality and stop using the term "Spam" for 90% of what they remove. They need to be more honest in their message to the Player in regards to why exactly they removed the post.

The other side of this coin is Players who decide they don't like a certain forums poster and start repeatedly reporting them to the point that the Mods feel compelled to do something, even if the reporting Player is in the wrong. Don't say that doesn't happen because we're all Human and Humans can be very petty creatures.

Transparency is the key to ZoS's future.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

I assume by the silence cookies are not accepted to remove infractions.

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I assume by the silence cookies are not accepted to remove infractions.

Cookies are always accepted, but not as a means of bribing us ;D

HeroOfNone · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Also everyone, as we mentioned in the original post, please review the Community Rules if you're ever unsure about something you're about to post. They're long, but they do answer a lot of your specific questions and examples.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/60843/community-code-of-conduct/

Alright, an example on my previous question

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1553556/#Comment_1553556

The post's topic was in regards to adding in ladders and grappling hooks. I replied with a prior topic regarding that to show there was some history on the forums already. Is this considered spamming/self promoting?

MorHawk · February 2015

DeLindsay wrote: »

The problem isn't that ZoS wants to increase Moderation and enforce the rules more stringently it's that the Mods are not universally acting on said rules. One post gets removed while another post in a different thread with very similar comments remains. If the Mods are going to wield the almighty ban hammer they need to do so universally and with complete impartiality and stop using the term "Spam" for 90% of what they remove. They need to be more honest in their message to the Player in regards to why exactly they removed the post.

The other side of this coin is Players who decide they don't like a certain forums poster and start repeatedly reporting them to the point that the Mods feel compelled to do something, even if the reporting Player is in the wrong. Don't say that doesn't happen because we're all Human and Humans can be very petty creatures.

Transparency is the key to ZoS's future.

Serious +1 here. An example just today is that an image got removed from my sig (why the heck is that functionality there if we're not allowed to use it anyway?), yet others fly under the radar because they don't post much. If you're going to toughen up, you absolutely have to be consistent about it.

ZOS_GinaBruno · February 2015

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

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ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Also everyone, as we mentioned in the original post, please review the Community Rules if you're ever unsure about something you're about to post. They're long, but they do answer a lot of your specific questions and examples.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/60843/community-code-of-conduct/

Alright, an example on my previous question

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1553556/#Comment_1553556

The post's topic was in regards to adding in ladders and grappling hooks. I replied with a prior topic regarding that to show there was some history on the forums already. Is this considered spamming/self promoting?

No, that's totally fine. What would not be fine is if there was a discussion about Nightblades in Update 6, and you posted a link to videos of dogs with limes.

Kalman · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The post's topic was in regards to adding in ladders and grappling hooks. I replied with a prior topic regarding that to show there was some history on the forums already. Is this considered spamming/self promoting?
No, that's totally fine. What would not be fine is if there was a discussion about Nightblades in Update 6, and you posted a link to videos of dogs with limes.

Audigy · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I assume by the silence cookies are not accepted to remove infractions.

Cookies are always accepted, but not as a means of bribing us ;D

I have some bad memories of Cookies from my childhood. Its only a cookie they said and that's all I remember from that night...

So be careful with what you wish for Gina *laughs*

When we get a reported post, we always review it within the context of the thread before taking any action. We won't action against someone if we feel the report isn't justified.

Also everyone, as we mentioned in the original post, please review the Community Rules if you're ever unsure about something you're about to post. They're long, but they do answer a lot of your specific questions and examples.

I just checked the rules, that's a huge list you have there

Maverick827 · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Bans cannot be bypassed by simply creating a new account. Currently, you must be invited to the forums in order to post, and this will continue after we release Tamriel Unlimited.

But that still doesn't prevent someone from buying a new copy of the game to get re-invited. Right now this would be pretty expensive, but in the future boxes/keys could go for as little as $5 from some resellers.

What happens if the game ever goes free to play and there are zero monetary restrictions on creating accounts? IP bans are easy to get around. You'll just have created an environment where trolls can troll people until they evoke even a minor reaction, report the person they just trolled, and get that person banned under these new draconian (please don't ban me for using this term) policies. If the troll is ever caught, they can just create a new account. The otherwise nice person who just got banned will likely not. The troll wins.

In my experiences, you're going to find that this will backfire on you. You're going to lose more accounts to people who are unfairly banned than you would have from people leaving due to harassment that doesn't even really exist on these forums anymore.

Sacadon · February 2015

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

Regarding cross post linking, is it always the case that you shouldn't link other posts to another? As someone that puts up multiple hame play suggestions I try to post up links of not just mine, but other suggestions that might be related to a new post topic. Or when a topic is trending, leading folks to a topic that has a majority of answers and discussion. I don't think it's been a nuisance do far, but if you'd clarify I'll try not to cross a line if it is.

Good ? I didn't see mention of this in the code of conduct summary... And just now I linked the following two forum topics together to ensure people knew about them because while they're titled differently, the discussions were pretty much the same.

Maybe the lawyer version of the code-of-conduct has detail on this... If anyone already knows this please advise.

Cogo · February 2015

I wonder if most of us are aware that our forum moderators and especially our Com managers Jessica and Gina, are communication with us. They are not the reason why "X class is not good". They give us info.

We seam to attack them. That's not right....

My personal issue was with the whole Crownstore, Consoles and business model idea. Gina gives me the info and I REALLY did not like what I heard. But the source of the info is Matt Firor. Not the com managers.....

I found myself quite annoyed with whoever ZoS staff posted about what I really did not want to hear. That has settled for me though.

Hope more isn't doing the same mistake I did. Why did I get upset at the wrong people?

I am not happy with Mr Firor one bit. But that's life. I like ESO anyway.
(I can explain if its needed for the rules, but I decided to see where this new thing goes).

Don't do a Cogo and shoot the messenger.

Darklord_Tiberius · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

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Nazon_Katts wrote: »

If I may advise to not only increase moderation, but developer and CSR participation as well. I am certain this would help much more in fostering a healthy community than any crack down on trolls.

We completely agree. Once the dust settles a bit from this change of direction, you should expect to see increased participation from the developers. They would love to chime into constructive threads and provide some feedback!

So does that mean the community is not going to be ignored on the forums anymore? I know hundreds of players, including myself and many in my guild that have posted threads and topics that have never, ever, received a response. Hardly any of it was trolling and more of solid feedback from people that play your game 5-6 hours a day. We understand that you operate a business and that other legal issues may come into play, but simple acknowledgement or discussion goes a long way. I could bring up many instances from Cyrodiil PvP from May 2014 to December 2014, but no point in opening old wounds.

If what you say is actually true, than I am OK with the strict change in regards to the forum rules. If not.......

Sacadon · February 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

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jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I assume by the silence cookies are not accepted to remove infractions.

Cookies are always accepted, but not as a means of bribing us ;D

Definitely not a bribe, just fostering a healthy mindset, especially when reading our posts, cough, I mean working

Ourorboros · February 2015

MorHawk wrote: »

Serious +1 here. An example just today is that an image got removed from my sig (why the heck is that functionality there if we're not allowed to use it anyway?), yet others fly under the radar because they don't post much. If you're going to toughen up, you absolutely have to be consistent about it.

It seems mods are being consistent, at least about removing graphics from signatures. My signature was also 'conformed'. I didn't even know images in signatures was a problem, as I have seen many on the forum. But it's fine since it looks like everyone gets the same treatment. And I have to say, the whole thing was handled in a very civil manner.

Grao · February 2015

Nice threat @ZOS_GinaBruno!

Ops... I mean, thread (or not - LOL)

It is the age of censorship hitting the shores of Tamriel! No liberty to express your self, a constitutional right in many countries, but not on ESO.