Community Vision and Increased Moderation

Ysne58

I have had experience as a moderator on other forums, with various methods of handling uncivil behavior. The least successful one was 3 counts and you are out that did not also let older offenses expire.

The most successful system did make sure older offense were not included. This system also included consideration of the severity of the conduct and there were things that warranted an immediate ban (threatening the life of another player for example). In a situation where a person was being sarcastic on a low level, there was counseling without a mark against the person.

In short, I think your current system as described is too inflexible. There needs to be an opportunity for conduct to expire or not count in a ban if it is something happened weeks or even months ago.

I hope current warnings also allow for educating the person violating the rules. I also hope you have something in place for people to appeal if they feel the action has been taken against them in error.

Aeeeek

Jitterbug wrote: »

and that the jester costume is p2w!

I did think that an entire PvP group in jester costume would be awesome.

As a Dunmer I celebrate freeing the Argonians as having 7 races as valid slaves 1 -> 7 = win..
Some seem to have a problem with that.

Armitas

Will there be any increased moderation against class trolling? You can't even have a discussion on PTS without it being derailed from class trolls. I feel like that is needed more than anything...especially on pts. (They don't need an infraction, they just need the troll comments removed from the thread with a message that says why.)

For example.
"QQ you're all just a bunch of easy moders that want an I win button." "The only people who play that class are cheese players who have to cause they sux".

Grao

Jeremy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello everyone,

One of the goals of the official ESO forums is to provide a safe, welcoming place for our players and developers to read and talk about the game. We want to foster healthy and constructive discussions, debates and feedback, and with The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited quickly approaching, welcome new and returning players.

Effective immediately, we will be enforcing stricter moderation of the existing rules on our forums, and will be much less tolerant of any type of behavior that hurts everyone’s experience. We will not tolerate trolling, demands, abusive or insulting language toward our community members, developers, company, or ESO itself. Once you receive a warning for any moderation action, you will be suspended for 72 hours on your next offense. Any violation after your suspension will result in a permanent ban from our forums (note that this will not affect your in-game status).

We’d love for everyone to take another look at How to be an ESO Community Hero to really embrace the type of behavior we’d like to see. We also want to encourage you to continue using the Report button for any posts or threads that may require a moderator’s attention. We recognize this may require some adjustments in the way you communicate and interact with each other, but with your help, it will make for a healthier and more constructive community. If there’s any doubt about what you’re about to post, please double check the rules.

Thanks for your continued support and understanding!

This is a mistake. Issuing permanent bans so quickly will not foster a healthy community. Temporary bans for gross misconduct I can understand - but to ban someone forever for their third offense is tyrannical and you are more likely to discourage people from playing your game that way.

Also a lot of times posts can be misunderstood and abuses or insults perceived where none were intended.

What is really sad is that the moderators are using this temporary bans to silence those showing serious concern for the game. Just because we choose to express our selves through sarcasm (mainly because we are tired of being constructive and ignored), it doesn't mean our concerns are less valid.

Also, being sarcastic doesn't constitute baiting, specially when sarcasm is directed to a company or devs or moderators who should be well trained to deal with this level of frustration from a gaming community without needing to use a muzzle.

Aidantwab16_ESO

This is good news to me, I have lately developed some strong opinions of the type of people who have been loudly representing the TES community on the forums. I expect the whining will be legendary, but I for one am glad things are going to be mopped up a bit, to keep the forum field fair for people who are actually playing and enjoying the game, rather than just sitting in their E-browsers complaining about it.

Grao

Aidantwab16_ESO wrote: »

This is good news to me, I have lately developed some strong opinions of the type of people who have been loudly representing the TES community on the forums. I expect the whining will be legendary, but I for one am glad things are going to be mopped up a bit, to keep the forum field fair for people who are actually playing and enjoying the game, rather than just sitting in their E-browsers complaining about it.

Do you really think people that don't care about the game spend their sweet time in the Forums? Those of us frustrated by how Zenimax operates and ignores player feed back, I think, have earned the right to let their opinions be known...

Ysne58

As long as we express that in a civil and constructive manner we should be fine.

nerevarine1138

Grao wrote: »

Aidantwab16_ESO wrote: »

This is good news to me, I have lately developed some strong opinions of the type of people who have been loudly representing the TES community on the forums. I expect the whining will be legendary, but I for one am glad things are going to be mopped up a bit, to keep the forum field fair for people who are actually playing and enjoying the game, rather than just sitting in their E-browsers complaining about it.

Do you really think people that don't care about the game spend their sweet time in the Forums? Those of us frustrated by how Zenimax operates and ignores player feed back, I think, have earned the right to let their opinions be known...

ZO "ignores player feedback"?

That's news to the starter islands, old Doshia, old VR difficulty and incoming system revamps. I guess it wasn't players who requested those changes.

Elsonso

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Aidantwab16_ESO wrote: »

This is good news to me, I have lately developed some strong opinions of the type of people who have been loudly representing the TES community on the forums. I expect the whining will be legendary, but I for one am glad things are going to be mopped up a bit, to keep the forum field fair for people who are actually playing and enjoying the game, rather than just sitting in their E-browsers complaining about it.

Do you really think people that don't care about the game spend their sweet time in the Forums? Those of us frustrated by how Zenimax operates and ignores player feed back, I think, have earned the right to let their opinions be known...

ZO "ignores player feedback"?

That's news to the starter islands, old Doshia, old VR difficulty and incoming system revamps. I guess it wasn't players who requested those changes.

I think that most people know that ZOS hears the feedback, and that feedback comes from multiple sources. The phrase "ignores player feedback" is a way of saying "they don't do what a few like-minded people on the forum suggest." Even if a couple hundred people on the forum agree on something, that is still a very small slice of the player population. This does not even begin to touch the subject of whether the suggestion is something they can, or want, to do.

If ZOS does listen to a suggestion, and it is not the "right" suggestion, then people question who ZOS is listening to. This usually involves pointing the finger at a particular demographic of player. It also frequently involves going after the Dev who made the decision.

It is not far removed from the "ZOS lies to us" statements that float around any time ZOS changes a decision. They could say that ZOS broke a promise, and that would be more accurate, but that is not as much of a negative statement. I have not seen any indication that ZOS has outright lied to anyone, which would require them to make a statement that they knew, unequivocally, was false at the time the statement was made. I have seen plenty of indication that they have changed their minds subsequent to making a very firm statement, which is a tacit promise.

If ZOS makes a statement, and they later decide they need to do something else, for whatever reason, they are branded as "liars" and if they don't make a statement, or say why they are not following some suggestion, then they don't listen.

I don't think that either is helpful. If ZOS is not free to make speculative statements that could change without being called a "liar" then they have less reason to make statements and we are left in the dark until the last possible second. If ZOS is branded as not listening, or listening to the wrong people, all this does is encourage divisions and finger pointing by the people who disagree with the changes. If the commentary takes a turn that chases after a Dev, then that Dev is in a hostile environment and no one should blame them for not wanting to be a target.

I would be completely OK with both of these being tempered, either willingly by the writer or through moderation.

Titansteele

If you suffer from the common cold a lot and consult a Doctor widely speaking you could have one of two experiences.

Your average Doctor will tell you to wrap up warm, feed a cold let the thing take its course.

The proactive Doctor will provide the same advice but will also look to see if there is a reason behind why you are suffering more than normal. They attempt to find a root cause.

What does that have to do with ESO or ZOS? Well increased moderation falls in the former category above.Where I am not saying it is a bad job it is not a great job either.

I do not post a great deal but I read quite a bit. I feel I have too as the overwhelming majority of my guild do not want to read these forums as they want to spend their time playing, not testing changes or arguing with trolls or in some cases people who have simply reached the end of their patience.

In my opinion if ZOS wanted to be more proactive then they need to contribute to these forums. They need to answer questions as best they can.
With this notification I had hoped that ZOS contributions here would improve but alas that has not happened thus far.
I am not going to employ over used scare tactics like "My whole guild will leave your game if you do not comply", instead I am going to clearly say that you are missing so many good opportunities and you are frustrating not only your customers but also the very best advertisers of your product.

Play an active part in your own forums, please.

nerevarine1138

Titansteele wrote: »

If you suffer from the common cold a lot and consult a Doctor widely speaking you could have one of two experiences.

Your average Doctor will tell you to wrap up warm, feed a cold let the thing take its course.

The proactive Doctor will provide the same advice but will also look to see if there is a reason behind why you are suffering more than normal. They attempt to find a root cause.

What does that have to do with ESO or ZOS? Well increased moderation falls in the former category above.Where I am not saying it is a bad job it is not a great job either.

I do not post a great deal but I read quite a bit. I feel I have too as the overwhelming majority of my guild do not want to read these forums as they want to spend their time playing, not testing changes or arguing with trolls or in some cases people who have simply reached the end of their patience.

In my opinion if ZOS wanted to be more proactive then they need to contribute to these forums. They need to answer questions as best they can.
With this notification I had hoped that ZOS contributions here would improve but alas that has not happened thus far.
I am not going to employ over used scare tactics like "My whole guild will leave your game if you do not comply", instead I am going to clearly say that you are missing so many good opportunities and you are frustrating not only your customers but also the very best advertisers of your product.

Play an active part in your own forums, please.

If my doctor started looking into causes for the common cold beyond, "You got exposed to rhinovirus," I'd get a new doctor.

Aidantwab16_ESO

Tighter moderation, come down on the people who get more enjoyment out of reading their own words than playing the game (they will just move on to the next place they can sit back and read how clever they are) and once the atmosphere has cleared out, the des will be taking more of an active role in the forums anyways.

Grao

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Aidantwab16_ESO wrote: »

This is good news to me, I have lately developed some strong opinions of the type of people who have been loudly representing the TES community on the forums. I expect the whining will be legendary, but I for one am glad things are going to be mopped up a bit, to keep the forum field fair for people who are actually playing and enjoying the game, rather than just sitting in their E-browsers complaining about it.

Do you really think people that don't care about the game spend their sweet time in the Forums? Those of us frustrated by how Zenimax operates and ignores player feed back, I think, have earned the right to let their opinions be known...

ZO "ignores player feedback"?

That's news to the starter islands, old Doshia, old VR difficulty and incoming system revamps. I guess it wasn't players who requested those changes.

Have the veteran system actually been removed? So far as I know, we don't even know when or if it will ever happen. I mean, Zenimax is relaunching the game under a new brand still with the Vet system. It is going to Consoles still with the vet system...

So far what they've done is create a new progression to layer upon the old one, so basically, they just added more levels to the game. Wow, that is impressive.

As for other feed back they've completely ignored - Well, they are releasing 1.6 to Live despite over 70% of the testers shouting and begging against it as we don't believe the patch is even close to being ready for deployment.

Grao

Ysne58 wrote: »

As long as we express that in a civil and constructive manner we should be fine.

Yes, Zenimax hasn't closed a single thread in the Forums so far because they didn't like the content of the conversation but couldn't find excuses to remove the individual posts.

#Sarcasm.

wraith808

Grao wrote: »

As for other feed back they've completely ignored - Well, they are releasing 1.6 to Live despite over 70% of the testers shouting and begging against it as we don't believe the patch is even close to being ready for deployment.

70%? That's an interesting number. And where does that number come from?

Aidantwab16_ESO

Grao, when the statement is "Zenimax ignores/doesn't do X" and someone presents evidence and occasions where Zenimax does in fact do X, saying "but they didn't do X those other times" does not cancel out the fact that they do still do X. It's like saying a duck can't fly because you saw it waddle.

Grao

Aidantwab16_ESO wrote: »

Grao, when the statement is "Zenimax ignores/doesn't do X" and someone presents evidence and occasions where Zenimax does in fact do X, saying "but they didn't do X those other times" does not cancel out the fact that they do still do X. It's like saying a duck can't fly because you saw it waddle.

Do you realize you are defending a company that is about to release the same game again and that once more they are pushing it forward without a finished product right?

I mean, several of us that beta tested the game last year warned Zenimax, "Your game is not ready for release, there are too many bugs", and yet the game came out with so many bugs one of the classes was very close to impossible to play. One would assume Zenimax would learn from that mistake, but no... Once more several of their beta testers are warning them, "Tamriel Unlimited is not ready for release" and "Releasing the game to consoles with the Veteran System is baffling" yet the company will push the game to Live and likely ruin its name once more with the large gaming community. And ESO's name was actually recovering from its horrible first release!

To top this little issue Zenimax has now decided their Mature forums are PG-13. You can't curse without a moderator coming to [Snip] it away, which is ridiculous considering this is a gaming forum, but heh... Worse, you can't express your opinion without some lingering fear you will get banned, any negative vision of Zenimax, their devs and their moderators may result precisely on that. In time this forum will wither and those of us that don't appreciate a silly muzzle will just move to Reddit.

Aidantwab16_ESO

Eso will never be a finished product. All across the board games are being released with steadily more and more bugs and issues in them, I heard assasin's creed unity was a disaster in that regard. I think when something like that happens we need to step back and not just assume that every studio is getting steadily more lazy and possibly conclude that as the demand for more technologically advanced/complex games gets higher, there begins to be way, way too many things to cover for an average sized development studio in a reasonable amount of time.

So yes, I AM defending them on this particular point. It doesn't mean I'm happy with everything that has happened this past year, but lately, there has been a lot of complaining and hate over things that I don't believe the people who work at Zenimax deserve. Sometimes it's easier to imagine Zenimax as an overweight, mustached cigar smoking demigod with all of the power to fix or ruin eso instantly, rather than a collection of people who's actual livelyhood is based on the success of this game.

Grao

Aidantwab16_ESO wrote: »

Eso will never be a finished product. All across the board games are being released with steadily more and more bugs and issues in them, I heard assasin's creed unity was a disaster in that regard. I think when something like that happens we need to step back and not just assume that every studio is getting steadily more lazy and possibly conclude that as the demand for more technologically advanced/complex games gets higher, there begins to be way, way too many things to cover for an average sized development studio in a reasonable amount of time.

So yes, I AM defending them on this particular point. It doesn't mean I'm happy with everything that has happened this past year, but lately, there has been a lot of complaining and hate over things that I don't believe the people who work at Zenimax deserve. Sometimes it's easier to imagine Zenimax as an overweight, mustached cigar smoking demigod with all of the power to fix or ruin eso instantly, rather than a collection of people who's actual livelyhood is based on the success of this game.

I am not criticizing those working at Zenimax, only an idiot would think I am. I am criticizing the management, those making poor decisions over and over, giving precedence to releasing a product within a self imposed time limit instead of delivering a good product. The release of 1.6 is a clear example of that, they are putting out a 1.6.x patch that wasn't even tested on the PTS, what will happen if the Sound bug is still around? Or the two handed weapon bug? What will happen if the new animations they are implementing untested fail horribly?

There is a reason PTS exist, ignoring it and ignoring feed back is just unwise to say the least. I like Gina and Jessica, even the mods that [Snip] at silly remarks, they are just obeying orders, my grievances are with the poor leadership pulling the strings or knotting them together. Those we really never hear about because they like hiding behind meat shields called customer support >.>

EDIT: Also, using the excuse that games are released bugged because the technology is more complex is pure bs. The technology is not the problem. the quality control is; if the problem related to technology, then fixing the bugs would require further advances in tech, not patching. The fact is, if we gamers stopped coming up with excuses for what is clearly corporatist greed companies like Zenimax would stop releasing semi flushed products.

ESO is great, but because it was released with so many problems many gamers turned their back on the game. Some of them may come back to check out the relaunch and what will they find? Yet again, bugs, unbalance between classes, lack of content, incomplete content and the cherry on top? Two progressions implemented together when they are clearly incompatible.

Razour

Some time ago now I got my wrists slapped for the tone of what I was posting.

My thoughts at that time on what and why I was posting were:
1/ I was posting because the topics were ones that I cared about and felt were important issues that needed pushing ZOS to resolve.
2/ The tone and nature of my posts were direct with the intent of getting some ZOS attention but I felt were the right side of the line when compared to what most of us might know as normal on other MMO forums.

I took the slap and stopped posting on the forum 'cos it was pretty clear where the balance of power was and who cared most about what.

Where am I going with this...?

The end result of this was that I pretty much stopped caring myself for ESO and now I hardly log in; in fact the only reason that I have been logging in is to keep things ticking over in readiness for 1.6 coming out which I had hoped will be the game that I wanted ESO to be from the start.

So I came back to the forums today to learn a little more how that is shaping up and lo and behold I learn that the moderation policy on the forums is being strengthened. That to my mind doesn't bode well for the future of ESO as that kind of policy will drive away people who care and games like this really need people to care as they're the people who keep games alive.

IMHO robust forums are part of MMO's - they help provide the color and spice that keep online communities coming back - some will come back to participate in the cut and thrust, others will come back just to watch the train crash unfold, but they come back. If the forums are moderated to blandness and the people who color them are banned then people will stop coming here.

(FTAOD that was a serious attempt at being constructive - I hope it is taken that way - back to lurking)

lichmeister

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

BillyMailman wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We also want to encourage you to continue using the Report button for any posts or threads that may require a moderator’s attention.

In that case, I'd like to re-raise a point I brought up months ago. Can we please get some sort of feedback after reporting things? I tried helping out by reporting things early on, but there's absolutely no way to know if I was reporting the sort of things that needed removal or not. It's more than a little bit discouraging, not having any idea whether or not you're helping.

Definitely understand where you're coming from, but keep in mind we never discuss any action taken against another player's account. We can assure you that every reported post is reviewed entirely within the context, and acted on appropriately.

i definitely understand how/why you would never share information regarding action taken against a fellow players account. What about something regarding action not taken? It would be nice to know if we are 'barking up the wrong tree', so to speak, and would slowly cut down on the false flags your moderators have to wade through.

edit: while i think this is a great idea, even an otherwise helpful and friendly player should be allowed to go off the rails every once in a while with words like 'banned for life' being used! if a player needs to be warned 2 or 3 times a year but is otherwise posting helpfullly and on-topic there should be no reason for anything worse than a temporary ban to cool their jets.

Tandor

Titansteele wrote: »

If you suffer from the common cold a lot and consult a Doctor widely speaking you could have one of two experiences.

Your average Doctor will tell you to wrap up warm, feed a cold let the thing take its course.

The proactive Doctor will provide the same advice but will also look to see if there is a reason behind why you are suffering more than normal. They attempt to find a root cause.

What does that have to do with ESO or ZOS? Well increased moderation falls in the former category above.Where I am not saying it is a bad job it is not a great job either.

I do not post a great deal but I read quite a bit. I feel I have too as the overwhelming majority of my guild do not want to read these forums as they want to spend their time playing, not testing changes or arguing with trolls or in some cases people who have simply reached the end of their patience.

In my opinion if ZOS wanted to be more proactive then they need to contribute to these forums. They need to answer questions as best they can.
With this notification I had hoped that ZOS contributions here would improve but alas that has not happened thus far.
I am not going to employ over used scare tactics like "My whole guild will leave your game if you do not comply", instead I am going to clearly say that you are missing so many good opportunities and you are frustrating not only your customers but also the very best advertisers of your product.

Play an active part in your own forums, please.

The proactive Doctor you describe wouldn't be too proactive if you had already accused him of lying to you, cheating you, and whilst in the waiting room you had been insulting other patients. Instead, he'd show you the door and suggest you register elsewhere. I'm all in favour of ZOS doing the same thing here. If posters want to be negative and critical in a non-constructive way, often insulting the developers and other players, then let them find an independent forum on which to do that, there's no reason why they should expect to be allowed to do so on the official forums. I welcome the improved moderation, and if it leads to a better atmosphere in which the developers then feel able to make more contributions I consider it a win-win situation. Critics of the game can still be as vocal as they want, they just need to make their criticisms in a constructive way.

Nazon_Katts

Tandor wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

If you suffer from the common cold a lot and consult a Doctor widely speaking you could have one of two experiences.

Your average Doctor will tell you to wrap up warm, feed a cold let the thing take its course.

The proactive Doctor will provide the same advice but will also look to see if there is a reason behind why you are suffering more than normal. They attempt to find a root cause.

What does that have to do with ESO or ZOS? Well increased moderation falls in the former category above.Where I am not saying it is a bad job it is not a great job either.

I do not post a great deal but I read quite a bit. I feel I have too as the overwhelming majority of my guild do not want to read these forums as they want to spend their time playing, not testing changes or arguing with trolls or in some cases people who have simply reached the end of their patience.

In my opinion if ZOS wanted to be more proactive then they need to contribute to these forums. They need to answer questions as best they can.
With this notification I had hoped that ZOS contributions here would improve but alas that has not happened thus far.
I am not going to employ over used scare tactics like "My whole guild will leave your game if you do not comply", instead I am going to clearly say that you are missing so many good opportunities and you are frustrating not only your customers but also the very best advertisers of your product.

Play an active part in your own forums, please.

The proactive Doctor you describe wouldn't be too proactive if you had already accused him of lying to you, cheating you, and whilst in the waiting room you had been insulting other patients. Instead, he'd show you the door and suggest you register elsewhere. I'm all in favour of ZOS doing the same thing here. If posters want to be negative and critical in a non-constructive way, often insulting the developers and other players, then let them find an independent forum on which to do that, there's no reason why they should expect to be allowed to do so on the official forums. I welcome the improved moderation, and if it leads to a better atmosphere in which the developers then feel able to make more contributions I consider it a win-win situation. Critics of the game can still be as vocal as they want, they just need to make their criticisms in a constructive way.

All of the above mayhem in the doctor's waiting room only came about however, because people been waiting there for days and only a nurse showed up hours ago to give the kid with the snotty nose a tissue, while everyone else with their hurts and illnesses weren't even looked at.

It's been like that right from the start, back when we had a many of constructive posts. ZOS did not participate and people realized more or less quickly that their participation on these boards had no weight and only the biggest and loudest threads had even a chance at getting any attention.

They've created this mess by themselves with near to none developer participation, understaffed forum personnel and no noticeable community building efforts from their end. How nice things could be show the very, very few threads were there was actual developer interaction and the few days tales of the dead is up.

Titansteele

Tandor wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

If you suffer from the common cold a lot and consult a Doctor widely speaking you could have one of two experiences.

Your average Doctor will tell you to wrap up warm, feed a cold let the thing take its course.

The proactive Doctor will provide the same advice but will also look to see if there is a reason behind why you are suffering more than normal. They attempt to find a root cause.

What does that have to do with ESO or ZOS? Well increased moderation falls in the former category above.Where I am not saying it is a bad job it is not a great job either.

I do not post a great deal but I read quite a bit. I feel I have too as the overwhelming majority of my guild do not want to read these forums as they want to spend their time playing, not testing changes or arguing with trolls or in some cases people who have simply reached the end of their patience.

In my opinion if ZOS wanted to be more proactive then they need to contribute to these forums. They need to answer questions as best they can.
With this notification I had hoped that ZOS contributions here would improve but alas that has not happened thus far.
I am not going to employ over used scare tactics like "My whole guild will leave your game if you do not comply", instead I am going to clearly say that you are missing so many good opportunities and you are frustrating not only your customers but also the very best advertisers of your product.

Play an active part in your own forums, please.

The proactive Doctor you describe wouldn't be too proactive if you had already accused him of lying to you, cheating you, and whilst in the waiting room you had been insulting other patients. Instead, he'd show you the door and suggest you register elsewhere. I'm all in favour of ZOS doing the same thing here. If posters want to be negative and critical in a non-constructive way, often insulting the developers and other players, then let them find an independent forum on which to do that, there's no reason why they should expect to be allowed to do so on the official forums. I welcome the improved moderation, and if it leads to a better atmosphere in which the developers then feel able to make more contributions I consider it a win-win situation. Critics of the game can still be as vocal as they want, they just need to make their criticisms in a constructive way.

Where I agree with the specifics while picking apart the analogy I have carried out none of the infringements and I am not here to defend anyone else. We could spend forever adding scenario`s to the analogy in an attempt to justify our point but it would insult your intelligence and mine.

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

wraith808

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

Just because someone has ZOS in front of their name doesn't mean they make decisions on what information can and can't be released, and what questions they can and can't answer. They answer what they can- I've seen it done. They also post that we'll give it to the appropriate people. But other stuff? They aren't ignoring for the sake of ignoring.

Nazon_Katts

wraith808 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

Just because someone has ZOS in front of their name doesn't mean they make decisions on what information can and can't be released, and what questions they can and can't answer. They answer what they can- I've seen it done. They also post that we'll give it to the appropriate people. But other stuff? They aren't ignoring for the sake of ignoring.

Yeah, but when corporate policies make it so, that a question takes half an year to be answered, their reasons just don't matter that much anymore.

wraith808

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

Just because someone has ZOS in front of their name doesn't mean they make decisions on what information can and can't be released, and what questions they can and can't answer. They answer what they can- I've seen it done. They also post that we'll give it to the appropriate people. But other stuff? They aren't ignoring for the sake of ignoring.

Yeah, but when corporate policies make it so, that a question takes half an year to be answered, their reasons just don't matter that much anymore.

Maybe not, but common decency does, in terms of the way that you speak to people whose arms are tied. If it means that much to you, and you want it to be heard at different levels (because you think you're being ignored at this level), writing a letter is cathartic, and can be directed to the correct parties from looking up zenimax and finding addresses and/or phone numbers if the addresses for whom you want aren't there.

Treating the people that answer the questions badly? Doesn't do anyone any good.

Nazon_Katts

wraith808 wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

Just because someone has ZOS in front of their name doesn't mean they make decisions on what information can and can't be released, and what questions they can and can't answer. They answer what they can- I've seen it done. They also post that we'll give it to the appropriate people. But other stuff? They aren't ignoring for the sake of ignoring.

Yeah, but when corporate policies make it so, that a question takes half an year to be answered, their reasons just don't matter that much anymore.

Maybe not, but common decency does, in terms of the way that you speak to people whose arms are tied. If it means that much to you, and you want it to be heard at different levels (because you think you're being ignored at this level), writing a letter is cathartic, and can be directed to the correct parties from looking up zenimax and finding addresses and/or phone numbers if the addresses for whom you want aren't there.

Treating the people that answer the questions badly? Doesn't do anyone any good.

Of course it doesn't. However, common decency should demand faster answers, acknowledgement and better communication as well. Leaving people feeling ignored is one of several ways to push them beyond their boiling points and turn good man bad.

wraith808

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

Just because someone has ZOS in front of their name doesn't mean they make decisions on what information can and can't be released, and what questions they can and can't answer. They answer what they can- I've seen it done. They also post that we'll give it to the appropriate people. But other stuff? They aren't ignoring for the sake of ignoring.

Yeah, but when corporate policies make it so, that a question takes half an year to be answered, their reasons just don't matter that much anymore.

Maybe not, but common decency does, in terms of the way that you speak to people whose arms are tied. If it means that much to you, and you want it to be heard at different levels (because you think you're being ignored at this level), writing a letter is cathartic, and can be directed to the correct parties from looking up zenimax and finding addresses and/or phone numbers if the addresses for whom you want aren't there.

Treating the people that answer the questions badly? Doesn't do anyone any good.

Of course it doesn't. However, common decency should demand faster answers, acknowledgement and better communication as well. Leaving people feeling ignored is one of several ways to push them beyond their boiling points and turn good man bad.

Have they ever said that every piece of feedback will be responded to? Look at it as putting a survey or letter into a suggestions box. Some, they will get back to. Others, they won't. But it's apparent they are read.

Nazon_Katts

wraith808 wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Titansteele wrote: »

I am not asking for the trolls to be treated with respect, ban them from the forums for all I care and like you suggested they will find somewhere else to poison out of sight and out of mind.
What I am saying is where people are asking reasonable, polite and constructive questions then ZOS should answer them. I have seen very little evidence of contribution to date, posting decree`s and not responding to questions or points is not contribution.

Just because someone has ZOS in front of their name doesn't mean they make decisions on what information can and can't be released, and what questions they can and can't answer. They answer what they can- I've seen it done. They also post that we'll give it to the appropriate people. But other stuff? They aren't ignoring for the sake of ignoring.

Yeah, but when corporate policies make it so, that a question takes half an year to be answered, their reasons just don't matter that much anymore.

Maybe not, but common decency does, in terms of the way that you speak to people whose arms are tied. If it means that much to you, and you want it to be heard at different levels (because you think you're being ignored at this level), writing a letter is cathartic, and can be directed to the correct parties from looking up zenimax and finding addresses and/or phone numbers if the addresses for whom you want aren't there.

Treating the people that answer the questions badly? Doesn't do anyone any good.

Of course it doesn't. However, common decency should demand faster answers, acknowledgement and better communication as well. Leaving people feeling ignored is one of several ways to push them beyond their boiling points and turn good man bad.

Have they ever said that every piece of feedback will be responded to? Look at it as putting a survey or letter into a suggestions box. Some, they will get back to. Others, they won't. But it's apparent they are read.

This is a discussion board and not a survey letter nor suggestion box. Look, there's boards with higher dev participation, a lot more traffic and they are all in all much better places to stay. I'm not saying it's ok to bash devs, I'm saying if they want to see less of it and truly want to improve the overall experience, they have to participate and work on their reaction times.