Community Vision and Increased Moderation
Maintenance for the week of March 31:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – March 31, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• Playstation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – March 31, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• Playstation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
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Winnower✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »
Please define "constructive." I've asked about this AND given examples in my question on page 2. If you would simply respond to that post a lot of the questions people have here would be answered.
simply put, neither you nor anyone else are going to pin them down on this. while i understand and am somewhat sympathetic with your perspective, i believe that the best recourse is probably to move even constructive criticism to some place like reddit and stop metaphorically beating your head against the concrete. of course i'm speaking as a survivor from days of yore with SOE, Turbine, and EA and occasionally will indulge in a little head-pounding still to this day.
best of luck in your future endeavors . .VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone1 -
stumpy999✭✭✭See how it goes, it can be cultural sometimes. I have seen stuff "moderated" that was not worth the effort in my opinion. However perception of offense is the key, I might think something is not offensive but it could be highly inflammatory to another group.
Zos have to balance that, so there isn't a right answer as it changes etc.1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭newtinmpls wrote: »What the heck happened to 'participated'??
It went into hiding in the options menu, the small cog symbol next to your forum name and avatar on the far right."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sad to see things get stricter. That usually does not foster a community feel. As someone who liked to post a pic response that could likely be seen as trolling, I will miss the LOL button.4 -
Titansteele✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »
Please define "constructive." I've asked about this AND given examples in my question on page 2. If you would simply respond to that post a lot of the questions people have here would be answered.
I was full of hope around community involvement and where I currently remain hopeful this is not a good sign. Perhaps they simply do not have enough time to do everything that is expected of them and they need more staff or their model needs reviewed.
Guild Leader of The Twelve Knights, AD PVE, PVP and Trading Guild on the EU Mega Server
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger"2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
simply put, neither you nor anyone else are going to pin them down on this. while i understand and am somewhat sympathetic with your perspective, i believe that the best recourse is probably to move even constructive criticism to some place like reddit and stop metaphorically beating your head against the concrete. of course i'm speaking as a survivor from days of yore with SOE, Turbine, and EA and occasionally will indulge in a little head-pounding still to this day.
best of luck in your future endeavors . .
I have censored myself more than usual in the last few days and am considering other forums.
I find myself unwilling to call someone on a comment that is biased unless I have some opinions backed by fact.
A recent topic had a title phrased to be negative but the text did not support it. This did not seem like something I want to report. It was not offensive, just inconsistent. Normally, I would just make a brief comment that points out the conflict. Since I have no further constructive comment, my only issue being that they are inconsistent, no way am I going to say it.
I'm not intending to flame, and troll status depends on how much people just want to believe what the title says. It is a comment that would be directed at the OP and not the issue and opens the door to the credibility of the OP, so I don't want to be considered an attacker.3 -
Metrobius✭✭✭This anouncment feels like its aimed at silencing criticism of ZOS rather than improving the community. I think you should have spent some time addressing concerns that many of us who feel that we were told outright lies have. You could have at least calmed some of the speculation.
Now every time you close a critical thread you will start a storm of discussions on other sites that you cant control.10 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭This anouncment feels like its aimed at silencing criticism of ZOS rather than improving the community. I think you should have spent some time addressing concerns that many of us who feel that we were told outright lies have. You could have at least calmed some of the speculation.
Now every time you close a critical thread you will start a storm of discussions on other sites that you cant control.
I couldn't agree more. Rather than fixing the issues that cause all the bad press they want to censor you from saying it.5 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭
I couldn't agree more. Rather than fixing the issues that cause all the bad press they want to censor you from saying it.
That's the thing right there if you silence the dissenting voices then everything sounds wonderful because everyone sounds happy with everything.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain1 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭This anouncment feels like its aimed at silencing criticism of ZOS rather than improving the community. I think you should have spent some time addressing concerns that many of us who feel that we were told outright lies have. You could have at least calmed some of the speculation.
Now every time you close a critical thread you will start a storm of discussions on other sites that you cant control.
i agree. the problem is alot of the people being critical are doing it because we love the game and want it to succeed.Trying to silence players who are being critical will make alot of us just go play something else.3 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭They never said you can't be critical. You can give constructive criticism, right?Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
Digiman✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
Use your best judgement.
As long as the image is generally on-topic, isn't vulgar or gigantic (no long cats, please!), you'll be fine. We're not trying to strip all the fun from the forums.
Yeah sorry but this seems very fascist and controlling from the tone of these. I understand the need to prevent harassment, but threatening to beat a person with a stick for posting "long cat images" is excessive and only really discourages people from discussing any further on these forum. Even now I am contemplating just never visiting these forums or putting my thoughts through on the fear of heavy reprisals from moderators, who may have short tempers or a head ache when making a decision to inflict punishments.
Secondly I think it would be wiser to create a dislike button, this would be far more safer way for people to disagree with something more safely rather then resorting to using words that are posted during flared tempers that could inflict intimidation and fear.
Yes, absolutely. We will always let you know which rule has been broken and why you're being moderated via a PM.[/quote]ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Since I am sure some may be caught by surprise by tighter than "usual" moderation, May I suggest a clear reference to the part of the rules that were broken? This is especially important where enforcement has been more forgiving in the past.
[/quote]
By firing squad from the tone of these changes? There is a difference between discouraging bad behavior and outright fear through severe punishments for any minor slip up like a dictatorship. I am sorry if you disagree with this but quite frankly I think this will only discourage people from posting, if anything with such feeling and passion over changes.
Will sorcerers posting their anger about recent changes in combat design be banned outright on a minor technicality or if the moderator themself isn't thinking clearly through an ailment?
Best solution is a vote down or dislike button. But from these changes I think you wouldn't even read this or you will probably reprimand me for speaking my mind. Eitherway these changes don't help the community discussions on hinders them.
People used the Lol button to posters who posted terrible ideas that their ideas were terrible. I got a fair share of Lol's myself, it didn't inflict emotion strain and I am an Autistic, schitzoprenic, sever depression, etc.
TL;DR= Welcome to the Dark times people.2 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Ah, well. It won't be so bad. Just refrain yourself from posting during the week and do so on weekends only. They work normal hours and there's near to none moderarion then anyways.
On a more serious note, are there any plans to adjust CS schedule, Mods and GMs in particular, to prime time, so we will actually see an increased presence in the evenings and on weekends/holidays? Always found it to be rather puzzling, seeing you work with skeleton crews through high traffic times."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"2 -
Winnower✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »Ah, well. It won't be so bad. Just refrain yourself from posting during the week and do so on weekends only. They work normal hours and there's near to none moderarion then anyways.
On a more serious note, are there any plans to adjust CS schedule, Mods and GMs in particular, to prime time, so we will actually see an increased presence in the evenings and on weekends/holidays? Always found it to be rather puzzling, seeing you work with skeleton crews through high traffic times.
I'm afraid you miss the possible point.
Analogy: In any totalitarian regime the goal is not to catch and enforce the breaking of every incidence of every law. The goal is to be able to get you when they want to. In fact, "they" want you (and everyone) to break the law, so that they can get you when they want to. Then if you become too annoying you are disappeared.
And in the meantime the regime can rest comfortably knowing that the citizenry are all out there keeping their head down: suppressed, repressed, depressed, in fear and insecure. Because they know that you can't obey all the laws all the time and if you have a copy of the wrong book in your house you can be sent to prison or executed.
Of course this is all theoretical hyperbole; obviously ZoS doesn't have a totalitarian regime nor can they do anything worse than ban you. But you see the analogy.VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone3 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
I'm afraid you miss the possible point.
Analogy: In any totalitarian regime the goal is not to catch and enforce the breaking of every incidence of every law. The goal is to be able to get you when they want to. In fact, "they" want you (and everyone) to break the law, so that they can get you when they want to. Then if you become too annoying you are disappeared.
And in the meantime the regime can rest comfortably knowing that the citizenry are all out there keeping their head down: suppressed, repressed, depressed, in fear and insecure. Because they know that you can't obey all the laws all the time and if you have a copy of the wrong book in your house you can be sent to prison or executed.
Of course this is all theoretical hyperbole; obviously ZoS doesn't have a totalitarian regime nor can they do anything worse than ban you. But you see the analogy.
I knew I should have put that first sentence in sarcasm tags.
For the rest, well... you are already doing what 'they' want from you and I'd rather not get into a political discussion.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Spamming.]Edited by ZOS_PierreL on February 21, 2015 7:11PM"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I couldn't agree more. Rather than fixing the issues that cause all the bad press they want to censor you from saying it.
I wasn't aware that asking for civil discussion and constructive criticism on their private forums was preventing you from offering criticism. Are you saying that players are incapable of being constructive in their posts?
I have some issues with uniform enforcement, but it's very clear that they're doing this to prepare for the new players (and returning trolls) that will soon have access to the forums. Currently, only people with an active subscription can post. Once the switch happens, everyone who ever purchased a copy of the game will be able to post here. A stronger moderator team will be needed to prevent the forums from becoming an utter cesspool.
Oh, and it's worth pointing out that they aren't changing the rules. They're just choosing to enforce them more strictly.----
Murray?2 -
GhostShadows✭✭✭I hope you guys remember that not all players speak English as a first language.
Some misunderstandings are likely to be banned for those super sensitive north american egos.1 -
Sacadon✭✭✭✭✭It may save us all some brain damage if we just give this approach of ZOS enforcing their existing policy a chance to play out instead of expecting something bad, because if you do I promise you'll find it somehow.
If I thought that there was a way to be proactive and head off some issues, I'd say full-throttle, but I just don't see that happening. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though ).
We do need all the help we can get finding, reporting and posting about game-breaking bugs. We have much influence in this area based on past experience with ZOS.2 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭On a positive note I am excited to hear that there will be more direct involvement from the developers on the forums. Gina and Michelle have really done a great job of this already, more so than I have experienced in any MMO.
What I hope to see is more passive involvement with editing or removing the troll, insults, and demands out of posts. This will be good for everyone. Penalizing every infraction of the rules with a warning is not something I look forward too, and I hope that is not entailed by the new initiative. Some times it's okay just to remove the troll and give them a passive warning.Edited by Armitas on February 21, 2015 4:23PMRetired.
Nord mDK1 -
Carter_DC✭✭✭With the increase in moderation we'll see a lot more of "staff comments" beeing advertised on the forum pages. (you know with the little green ourobouros)
Unfortunately theses are most of the time misleading, leading you to think that maybe someone in the ZOS staff actually commented or answered on the issue of the thread. When in fact you look through the pages for that post waiting for something interresting and only find a moderation post that has nothing to do with the actual thread.
I'd really like if moderation posts did not appear anymore as "staff posts".
Non-moderation staff posts are valuable to us (and enjoyable). Don't dilute them in a sea of rules warnings.High Kinlady Estre was right ! Hail to the Veil !
Fr AD Guild Arkadium.4 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the increase in moderation we'll see a lot more of "staff comments" beeing advertised on the forum pages. (you know with the little green ourobouros)
Unfortunately theses are most of the time misleading, leading you to think that maybe someone in the ZOS staff actually commented or answered on the issue of the thread. When in fact you look through the pages for that post waiting for something interresting and only find a moderation post that has nothing to do with the actual thread.
I'd really like if moderation posts did not appear anymore as "staff posts".
Non-moderation staff posts are valuable to us (and enjoyable). Don't dilute them in a sea of rules warnings.
The dev tracker previews the post and if you want to jump straight to a developer post in a thread, you can click on the green logo and navigate between multiple developer posts in that thread from there (if there are any). It's hardly something that requires effort.----
Murray?0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It may save us all some brain damage if we just give this approach of ZOS enforcing their existing policy a chance to play out instead of expecting something bad, because if you do I promise you'll find it somehow.
If I thought that there was a way to be proactive and head off some issues, I'd say full-throttle, but I just don't see that happening. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong though ).
We do need all the help we can get finding, reporting and posting about game-breaking bugs. We have much influence in this area based on past experience with ZOS.
This was my original line of thinking, and I want it to work this way.
However, I quickly realized that I do not want to be the "example" in a situation where the community and the moderators are deciding how this is going to play out. I have never formally crossed the line, but I feel that the line and I are old friends. Old friends can turn on you. A three strikes and here's the door policy does not leave a lot of room for experimentation. I don't want to be the guinea pig. Someone else can be the lightning rod. I will let them stick their head up above the wall.
It has not escaped me that a lot of people using this response is likely acceptable to them, whether intentional or not.
Still, +1 insightful from me for the level-headed observation.3 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
The dev tracker previews the post and if you want to jump straight to a developer post in a thread, you can click on the green logo and navigate between multiple developer posts in that thread from there (if there are any). It's hardly something that requires effort.
Does the inclusion of moderator posts bring any benefit?"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With the increase in moderation we'll see a lot more of "staff comments" beeing advertised on the forum pages. (you know with the little green ourobouros)
Unfortunately theses are most of the time misleading, leading you to think that maybe someone in the ZOS staff actually commented or answered on the issue of the thread. When in fact you look through the pages for that post waiting for something interresting and only find a moderation post that has nothing to do with the actual thread.
I'd really like if moderation posts did not appear anymore as "staff posts".
Non-moderation staff posts are valuable to us (and enjoyable). Don't dilute them in a sea of rules warnings.
I have suggested that moderation posts appear as a different color from Dev posts relating to the topic. So if a thread had both a moderated post telling us to behave and play nice and also a Dev post relating to the topic then two, differently colored, icons would appear and you could click on the one you wanted to see.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »
Does the inclusion of moderator posts bring any benefit?
Yes. Without transparent moderation, there will be even more accusations of controlling the tenor and content of the boards than you're seeing now. They tell when they've done anything and there's already insinuations that it's not a fair use of moderation.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
Yes. Without transparent moderation, there will be even more accusations of controlling the tenor and content of the boards than you're seeing now. They tell when they've done anything and there's already insinuations that it's not a fair use of moderation.
The question related more to the dev tracker and the fact you cannot distinguish dev and mod posts. The current level of transparency wouldn't decrease, if you kept them seperated."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"1 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'm actually pleased to see this - and think it should have been implemented sooner, there is a history here now where some folks seem to think it is OK to be really impolite to other posters, and I don't think that promotes a good atmosphere, at times it can get pretty toxic on here. Some people need to learn that being really rude isn't about exercising free speech, it's just being rude.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.4 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »
I wasn't aware that asking for civil discussion and constructive criticism on their private forums was preventing you from offering criticism. Are you saying that players are incapable of being constructive in their posts?
Nope, just that it's a slippery slope to only posting puppies and rainbows.
I have some issues with uniform enforcement, but it's very clear that they're doing this to prepare for the new players (and returning trolls) that will soon have access to the forums. Currently, only people with an active subscription can post. Once the switch happens, everyone who ever purchased a copy of the game will be able to post here. A stronger moderator team will be needed to prevent the forums from becoming an utter cesspool.
Yep, I believe this to the case as well.
Oh, and it's worth pointing out that they aren't changing the rules. They're just choosing to enforce them more strictly.
Therefore, they do not have just cause to discipline anyone if they can't enforce the rules evenly all the time.
Edited by Jaxsun on February 21, 2015 9:13PM0 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »
The question related more to the dev tracker and the fact you cannot distinguish dev and mod posts. The current level of transparency wouldn't decrease, if you kept them seperated.
Ah... I didn't get that from what you posted. Sorry for the misunderstanding.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭
Ah... I didn't get that from what you posted. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
No worries, mate. "You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0