As someone who works PR, there is no winning this, at all. The holidays are definitely in full effect, and Gina is still a CS person, not a dev. If anything, the PR people are the ones taking the blunt of the attacks, when it has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Forums are just a small slice of the CS. Diving into a mine field takes a lot of guts. And that's what she did.

It doesn't take away from everyone's concerns. Or even mine. I have legitimate questions. But at this point, I'm just going to wait and see what's in store on the PTS.

We were told xp was being tracked so that all the questing and xp earned after vr14 wasn't going to be a waste.

This was apparently an outright lie.

tbh i remember they said it ina eso live back in september about this. i dearly hope that we will get exp those above vr14 that has been it for ages doing quests.trials etc otherwise this is [snip]
[edited for profanity bypass]

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yeah, and it's the reward ppl are pissed about. Their "reward" doesn't amount to much now does it.

Really? In a diminishing reward system the first point in each location is actually very valuable indeed. Due the forced rotation of spending our 30 points actually comes to 10 points per major constellation. What does this magic figure mean? Well according to the current information the first passive is unlocked at 10. So what they are actually giving us, if we want to spend them that way, is a 10 point spend with 1 unlocked passive in each of the major symbols. Personally that doesn't sound too bad, it allows for character distinction without options becoming lost in an initial deluge.

Secondly, since the system hasn't been seen, in its entirity, by anyone who isn't at ZOS speculation about what those 30 points will translate to in real terms is just that, speculation.

Thirdly, if you are worried about lost xp gained above VR1 then yes, it is unfortunate, unpleasant (and probably other words beginning with "un") to be faced with having acted on information that has now proven to have been in error. The decision, when made, should also have been related to the playerbase sooner. In the month between the initial announcement (October) and the change being made (November) you would still have players complating (bitterly) about their lost game time but it may be that there would be fewer of them and so the impact would be lessened.

That said, considering that ZOS have all the information that we don't about who earned what in the interim it is unlikely that any member of the playerbase actually has any idea of what impact a direct XP->CP would have. And if not a direct conversion then, well, let's just say that I have seen a fair amount of dissent even between people who want compensation as to how they would want to see it handled. Who are they supposed to please? Everyone all the time? I'd like to see anyone manage that. And if people aren't asking for a direct conversion then I begin to find it difficult to believe that this is more about reward than it is about having an advantage over "the other guy".

With regards to unrepeatable content I have seen about as many people saying that they never want to do Silver and Gold again as I have seen asking for it to be unlocked. So again, I am not sure how that could be handled in a way that would please everyone. Of course ZOS is already talking about new areas for PVE and PVP (Wrothgar, Murkmire, Imperial City etc.) and so, given the past speed of their development cycle, as soon as the CS is in (and possibly the console launch) we will start to see some of these things come to fruition thus supplying new CP leveling content for everyone.

For me? I have VR1+ characters so I may well be losing out. I am not going to let that bother me as I don't have all of the facts and so getting myself riled on the basis of conclusions that can't be substantiated is only going to hurt me far more than it will ever hurt ZOS. I will continue to look forward to the CS and the rest of the game to come. YMMV.

TL;DR
- 30CP seems to be a solid choice given the structure of the CS system.
- Yes ZOS Should have informed the playerbase when it become clear things had changed.
- Only ZOS has the figures for what was earned and so only ZOS would be aware of the impact of a direct transition.
- New levelling content has already been talked about.
- You can't please all the people all of the time.
- Even if I am losing out, I am looking forward to the CS.
- Nobody has to agree with any of the above.

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

There's only one way how risking alienating your player base by truncating progression in an equalizing effort may work out and that is by drawing in a much larger crowd than what you got before.

...or that not doing so could result in an even bigger train crash when the have to do the conversion itself, or result in dramatic imbalances in CP numbers awarded, or not supply a large enough proportion of the population with enough CP for any initial flaws in the system to become apparent or... etc.

The point is that we really don't know why they are doing this because they haven't told us. It would be nice if they did lay out their calculations and/or reasons for us all to see (and probably disagree with) but until they do that, speculating on why the decision was made doesn't really give much in the way of illumination.

The current plan is less appealing to anyone who has put in more hours than 30CPs worth, which I expect to be the bulk of the folks that's been here from the start.

It does benefit new and future players, however. That's pretty clear to me even without further explanation or insights into ZOS reasoning.

EQBallzz wrote: »

I have yet to see a single player ask for a 1 to 1 conversion so that is a red herring. I have also not seen a single person say they would demand one type of compensation over another.

I have a memory of the former if I find the link I will add it to my post. As for the latter there are a fair few threads on this subject, I am certain that I have seen people demanding a certain number of CPs, or that it should be tied to XP directly, or quests directly or achievements which leads into the next section.

EQBallz wrote: »

What we have seen almost unanimously is a desire for *some* sort of compensation that is proportional. Whether that is a ratio based off of tracked XP or achievements or just an allotment of CP for each vet rank..*something* that would be proportional to the level of effort that went into the existing progression system. Most have suggested something as low as 1 CP per vet level which is hardly very demanding considering the effort involved but at least scales the number of CP to the amount of leveling effort made in the current system.

First of all, "level of effort" is incredibly subjective. As people have pointed out there are people who are at VR14 through questing and others who haven't touched them (because they have no interest in questing) are those two approaches directly proportional or should the person who did the quests get fewer "compensatory" CP because they still have the quests available to them (even if they have no interest in undertaking them)?

Which is where the first section leads into this. I have seen a lot of calls for CP compensation, there have been threads and polls enough that it has dominated activity on this board (and to a lesser degree on Developer Discussions) for days. What I haven't seen is a single framework that has been agreed on by the entirity of the playerbase that feels like it is going to lose out. You say that "most" have suggested something as low as 1 CP but there is a poll on this very board where 47% of the current respondents have voted for 5 CP per level. How will you convince them? And why do you expect ZOS to accept your framework over theirs? There really doesn't seem to be a single method that the community has actually agreed on.

Yes, ZOS knows it has annoyed some people but if you can't agree amongst yourselves what it actually is that you want to see ZOS do (apart from the general statement "make recompense") then how are they supposed to action it?

Audigy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed.

Hope you all are enjoying the holidays, and we'll see you in the new year.

Gina mentioned that you get a special reward guys, its those 30 CPs that you only get once 1.6 hits. So you will have something in return for all your work.

A new player or someone who gets to VR a day later wont get the reward, so in the end ZO rewarded you for your spent time.

EQBallzz wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yeah, and it's the reward ppl are pissed about. Their "reward" doesn't amount to much now does it.

Thirdly, if you are worried about lost xp gained above VR1 then yes, it is unfortunate, unpleasant (and probably other words beginning with "un") to be faced with having acted on information that has now proven to have been in error. The decision, when made, should also have been related to the playerbase sooner. In the month between the initial announcement (October) and the change being made (November) you would still have players complating (bitterly) about their lost game time but it may be that there would be fewer of them and so the impact would be lessened.

That said, considering that ZOS have all the information that we don't about who earned what in the interim it is unlikely that any member of the playerbase actually has any idea of what impact a direct XP->CP would have. And if not a direct conversion then, well, let's just say that I have seen a fair amount of dissent even between people who want compensation as to how they would want to see it handled. Who are they supposed to please? Everyone all the time? I'd like to see anyone manage that. And if people aren't asking for a direct conversion then I begin to find it difficult to believe that this is more about reward than it is about having an advantage over "the other guy".

With regards to unrepeatable content I have seen about as many people saying that they never want to do Silver and Gold again as I have seen asking for it to be unlocked. So again, I am not sure how that could be handled in a way that would please everyone. Of course ZOS is already talking about new areas for PVE and PVP (Wrothgar, Murkmire, Imperial City etc.) and so, given the past speed of their development cycle, as soon as the CS is in (and possibly the console launch) we will start to see some of these things come to fruition thus supplying new CP leveling content for everyone.

For me? I have VR1+ characters so I may well be losing out. I am not going to let that bother me as I don't have all of the facts and so getting myself riled on the basis of conclusions that can't be substantiated is only going to hurt me far more than it will ever hurt ZOS. I will continue to look forward to the CS and the rest of the game to come. YMMV.

TL;DR
- 30CP seems to be a solid choice given the structure of the CS system.
- Yes ZOS Should have informed the playerbase when it become clear things had changed.
- Only ZOS has the figures for what was earned and so only ZOS would be aware of the impact of a direct transition.
- New levelling content has already been talked about.
- You can't please all the people all of the time.
- Even if I am losing out, I am looking forward to the CS.
- Nobody has to agree with any of the above.

I have yet to see a single player ask for a 1 to 1 conversion so that is a red herring. I have also not seen a single person say they would demand one type of compensation over another.

What we have seen almost unanimously is a desire for *some* sort of compensation that is proportional. Whether that is a ratio based off of tracked XP or achievements or just an allotment of CP for each vet rank..*something* that would be proportional to the level of effort that went into the existing progression system. Most have suggested something as low as 1 CP per vet level which is hardly very demanding considering the effort involved but at least scales the number of CP to the amount of leveling effort made in the current system.

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

There's only one way how risking alienating your player base by truncating progression in an equalizing effort may work out and that is by drawing in a much larger crowd than what you got before. It's quite apparent that in it's current state ESO doesn't have the needed mass appeal really, the recent steam sale brought just about a third new folks in compared to the initial steam launch and those numbers weren't that impressive either.

But still they do seem adamant on providing an equal starting ground for the champion system even at the loss of their loyal long time players that have committed endless hours to their game. They must be truly expecting an enormous influx of new players. But what could possibly bring them in?

Consoles will be on their dedicated servers, so that can't be it. And I doubt 1.6 nor 1.7 or 1.8 even will be that kind of awesome. So whatelse could be happening, that they're so focused on lowering entry barriers?

That's insightful but I don't see how this system is providing "equal" starting ground for this alleged mass of new players that might come to the game. Lets say there is a huge influx of players..they will be lvl 1 and have to level up to 50 and they will get 0 CP until they earn it one at a time. By the time that happens all the current people will be miles ahead of them with their 30 starting CP + whatever they earn (and grinders will have earned plenty by then).

So where does this "equality" come into play? Is it just for those players that hit 50 and quit? It would have to be the ones who hit 50 and didn't progress into vet levels much or they won't be happy but that is a rather narrow scope of players that would benefit from this and could easily be less than the people who will leave because of this. The whole thing makes no logical sense.

You actually have your answer right there. Look at your guild rosters, you'll see masses of players VR1 & 2, who have not played in months, unless you have a GM that culls. This is the demographic ZOS are wanting to bring back, it may cost some of the current player base to do so, but that's their hope. I can only speak for what those in my own guild gave as the reason for quitting and almost to a man it was not wanting to go through VR to join endgame.

People need to remember what this was all about at the start. VR was driving away players, those players may come back once VR is removed.