What happened to " we will track your exp earned " ????( Gina Bruno answered this 12/28/2014)

Nazon_Katts

There's only one way how risking alienating your player base by truncating progression in an equalizing effort may work out and that is by drawing in a much larger crowd than what you got before. It's quite apparent that in it's current state ESO doesn't have the needed mass appeal really, the recent steam sale brought just about a third new folks in compared to the initial steam launch and those numbers weren't that impressive either.

But still they do seem adamant on providing an equal starting ground for the champion system even at the loss of their loyal long time players that have committed endless hours to their game. They must be truly expecting an enormous influx of new players. But what could possibly bring them in?

Consoles will be on their dedicated servers, so that can't be it. And I doubt 1.6 nor 1.7 or 1.8 even will be that kind of awesome. So whatelse could be happening, that they're so focused on lowering entry barriers?

Iluvrien

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

There's only one way how risking alienating your player base by truncating progression in an equalizing effort may work out and that is by drawing in a much larger crowd than what you got before.

...or that not doing so could result in an even bigger train crash when the have to do the conversion itself, or result in dramatic imbalances in CP numbers awarded, or not supply a large enough proportion of the population with enough CP for any initial flaws in the system to become apparent or... etc.

The point is that we really don't know why they are doing this because they haven't told us. It would be nice if they did lay out their calculations and/or reasons for us all to see (and probably disagree with) but until they do that, speculating on why the decision was made doesn't really give much in the way of illumination.

EQBallzz

Iluvrien wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yeah, and it's the reward ppl are pissed about. Their "reward" doesn't amount to much now does it.

Thirdly, if you are worried about lost xp gained above VR1 then yes, it is unfortunate, unpleasant (and probably other words beginning with "un") to be faced with having acted on information that has now proven to have been in error. The decision, when made, should also have been related to the playerbase sooner. In the month between the initial announcement (October) and the change being made (November) you would still have players complating (bitterly) about their lost game time but it may be that there would be fewer of them and so the impact would be lessened.

That said, considering that ZOS have all the information that we don't about who earned what in the interim it is unlikely that any member of the playerbase actually has any idea of what impact a direct XP->CP would have. And if not a direct conversion then, well, let's just say that I have seen a fair amount of dissent even between people who want compensation as to how they would want to see it handled. Who are they supposed to please? Everyone all the time? I'd like to see anyone manage that. And if people aren't asking for a direct conversion then I begin to find it difficult to believe that this is more about reward than it is about having an advantage over "the other guy".

With regards to unrepeatable content I have seen about as many people saying that they never want to do Silver and Gold again as I have seen asking for it to be unlocked. So again, I am not sure how that could be handled in a way that would please everyone. Of course ZOS is already talking about new areas for PVE and PVP (Wrothgar, Murkmire, Imperial City etc.) and so, given the past speed of their development cycle, as soon as the CS is in (and possibly the console launch) we will start to see some of these things come to fruition thus supplying new CP leveling content for everyone.

For me? I have VR1+ characters so I may well be losing out. I am not going to let that bother me as I don't have all of the facts and so getting myself riled on the basis of conclusions that can't be substantiated is only going to hurt me far more than it will ever hurt ZOS. I will continue to look forward to the CS and the rest of the game to come. YMMV.

TL;DR
- 30CP seems to be a solid choice given the structure of the CS system.
- Yes ZOS Should have informed the playerbase when it become clear things had changed.
- Only ZOS has the figures for what was earned and so only ZOS would be aware of the impact of a direct transition.
- New levelling content has already been talked about.
- You can't please all the people all of the time.
- Even if I am losing out, I am looking forward to the CS.
- Nobody has to agree with any of the above.

I have yet to see a single player ask for a 1 to 1 conversion so that is a red herring. I have also not seen a single person say they would demand one type of compensation over another.

What we have seen almost unanimously is a desire for *some* sort of compensation that is proportional. Whether that is a ratio based off of tracked XP or achievements or just an allotment of CP for each vet rank..*something* that would be proportional to the level of effort that went into the existing progression system. Most have suggested something as low as 1 CP per vet level which is hardly very demanding considering the effort involved but at least scales the number of CP to the amount of leveling effort made in the current system.

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

There's only one way how risking alienating your player base by truncating progression in an equalizing effort may work out and that is by drawing in a much larger crowd than what you got before. It's quite apparent that in it's current state ESO doesn't have the needed mass appeal really, the recent steam sale brought just about a third new folks in compared to the initial steam launch and those numbers weren't that impressive either.

But still they do seem adamant on providing an equal starting ground for the champion system even at the loss of their loyal long time players that have committed endless hours to their game. They must be truly expecting an enormous influx of new players. But what could possibly bring them in?

Consoles will be on their dedicated servers, so that can't be it. And I doubt 1.6 nor 1.7 or 1.8 even will be that kind of awesome. So whatelse could be happening, that they're so focused on lowering entry barriers?

That's insightful but I don't see how this system is providing "equal" starting ground for this alleged mass of new players that might come to the game. Lets say there is a huge influx of players..they will be lvl 1 and have to level up to 50 and they will get 0 CP until they earn it one at a time. By the time that happens all the current people will be miles ahead of them with their 30 starting CP + whatever they earn (and grinders will have earned plenty by then).

So where does this "equality" come into play? Is it just for those players that hit 50 and quit? It would have to be the ones who hit 50 and didn't progress into vet levels much or they won't be happy but that is a rather narrow scope of players that would benefit from this and could easily be less than the people who will leave because of this. The whole thing makes no logical sense.

Nazon_Katts

The current plan is less appealing to anyone who has put in more hours than 30CPs worth, which I expect to be the bulk of the folks that's been here from the start.

It does benefit new and future players, however. That's pretty clear to me even without further explanation or insights into ZOS reasoning.

EQBallzz

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

The current plan is less appealing to anyone who has put in more hours than 30CPs worth, which I expect to be the bulk of the folks that's been here from the start.

It does benefit new and future players, however. That's pretty clear to me even without further explanation or insights into ZOS reasoning.

That's just it..it doesn't benefit new players..only relatively new players. They have to be new enough (or slow enough) to not have wasted all their time in the vet system but not so new (or slow) that they won't be V1 when 1.6 hits. A new player at 1.6 will get no benefit and it won't make any difference to them what current vet players get or don't get because they will be so far behind it won't matter.

Iluvrien

EQBallzz wrote: »

I have yet to see a single player ask for a 1 to 1 conversion so that is a red herring. I have also not seen a single person say they would demand one type of compensation over another.

I have a memory of the former if I find the link I will add it to my post. As for the latter there are a fair few threads on this subject, I am certain that I have seen people demanding a certain number of CPs, or that it should be tied to XP directly, or quests directly or achievements which leads into the next section.

EQBallz wrote: »

What we have seen almost unanimously is a desire for *some* sort of compensation that is proportional. Whether that is a ratio based off of tracked XP or achievements or just an allotment of CP for each vet rank..*something* that would be proportional to the level of effort that went into the existing progression system. Most have suggested something as low as 1 CP per vet level which is hardly very demanding considering the effort involved but at least scales the number of CP to the amount of leveling effort made in the current system.

First of all, "level of effort" is incredibly subjective. As people have pointed out there are people who are at VR14 through questing and others who haven't touched them (because they have no interest in questing) are those two approaches directly proportional or should the person who did the quests get fewer "compensatory" CP because they still have the quests available to them (even if they have no interest in undertaking them)?

Which is where the first section leads into this. I have seen a lot of calls for CP compensation, there have been threads and polls enough that it has dominated activity on this board (and to a lesser degree on Developer Discussions) for days. What I haven't seen is a single framework that has been agreed on by the entirity of the playerbase that feels like it is going to lose out. You say that "most" have suggested something as low as 1 CP but there is a poll on this very board where 47% of the current respondents have voted for 5 CP per level. How will you convince them? And why do you expect ZOS to accept your framework over theirs? There really doesn't seem to be a single method that the community has actually agreed on.

Yes, ZOS knows it has annoyed some people but if you can't agree amongst yourselves what it actually is that you want to see ZOS do (apart from the general statement "make recompense") then how are they supposed to action it?

Nazon_Katts

The benefit for the future player is the closed gap. While generally that is a good thing, I don't think taking from the top instead of adding to the bottom is a particularly wise approach to this.

Ease of entry for new and future players is an inherent problem to vertical progression MMOs, but I haven't experienced a progression decrease for long time veteran players yet. Rather it was progression boost (lower xp requirements, higher xp gains, group content turned solo) to new players. And even that wasn't always a welcomed change.

Tho that's been happening in years old and matured MMOs and not juvenile ones not even through their first year of existence.

And then you got relatively well balanced short vertical and broad horizontal progression systems (ESO's class, weapon and skill system would lend itself just nicely for that, if just done properly) that seldomly limit nor boost progression. EvE being the prime example.

While it's near impossible to catch up to veteran player there, it doesn't take more than a few months to be competive and actually stand a chance against them, since you can progress in highly specialized niches. Versatility and resources are the defining difference and not necessarily power (of a character, politically and economically that's a whole different beast).

There you've still got all the progression and the benefit it brings for the veteran, but ease of entry (after scaling the cliff) for the future player without taking anything away.

Actually, even WoW, the pinnacle *cough* of a vertical progression system, doesn't take power from existing characters. In all of Azeroth - up to the new expansion's zone - you'll remain the demigod you used to be. Only if you buy it and set foot into new lands, you'll have to start anew.

Guppet

Audigy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed.

Hope you all are enjoying the holidays, and we'll see you in the new year.

Gina mentioned that you get a special reward guys, its those 30 CPs that you only get once 1.6 hits. So you will have something in return for all your work.

A new player or someone who gets to VR a day later wont get the reward, so in the end ZO rewarded you for your spent time.

EQBallzz wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Yeah, and it's the reward ppl are pissed about. Their "reward" doesn't amount to much now does it.

Thirdly, if you are worried about lost xp gained above VR1 then yes, it is unfortunate, unpleasant (and probably other words beginning with "un") to be faced with having acted on information that has now proven to have been in error. The decision, when made, should also have been related to the playerbase sooner. In the month between the initial announcement (October) and the change being made (November) you would still have players complating (bitterly) about their lost game time but it may be that there would be fewer of them and so the impact would be lessened.

That said, considering that ZOS have all the information that we don't about who earned what in the interim it is unlikely that any member of the playerbase actually has any idea of what impact a direct XP->CP would have. And if not a direct conversion then, well, let's just say that I have seen a fair amount of dissent even between people who want compensation as to how they would want to see it handled. Who are they supposed to please? Everyone all the time? I'd like to see anyone manage that. And if people aren't asking for a direct conversion then I begin to find it difficult to believe that this is more about reward than it is about having an advantage over "the other guy".

With regards to unrepeatable content I have seen about as many people saying that they never want to do Silver and Gold again as I have seen asking for it to be unlocked. So again, I am not sure how that could be handled in a way that would please everyone. Of course ZOS is already talking about new areas for PVE and PVP (Wrothgar, Murkmire, Imperial City etc.) and so, given the past speed of their development cycle, as soon as the CS is in (and possibly the console launch) we will start to see some of these things come to fruition thus supplying new CP leveling content for everyone.

For me? I have VR1+ characters so I may well be losing out. I am not going to let that bother me as I don't have all of the facts and so getting myself riled on the basis of conclusions that can't be substantiated is only going to hurt me far more than it will ever hurt ZOS. I will continue to look forward to the CS and the rest of the game to come. YMMV.

TL;DR
- 30CP seems to be a solid choice given the structure of the CS system.
- Yes ZOS Should have informed the playerbase when it become clear things had changed.
- Only ZOS has the figures for what was earned and so only ZOS would be aware of the impact of a direct transition.
- New levelling content has already been talked about.
- You can't please all the people all of the time.
- Even if I am losing out, I am looking forward to the CS.
- Nobody has to agree with any of the above.

I have yet to see a single player ask for a 1 to 1 conversion so that is a red herring. I have also not seen a single person say they would demand one type of compensation over another.

What we have seen almost unanimously is a desire for *some* sort of compensation that is proportional. Whether that is a ratio based off of tracked XP or achievements or just an allotment of CP for each vet rank..*something* that would be proportional to the level of effort that went into the existing progression system. Most have suggested something as low as 1 CP per vet level which is hardly very demanding considering the effort involved but at least scales the number of CP to the amount of leveling effort made in the current system.

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

There's only one way how risking alienating your player base by truncating progression in an equalizing effort may work out and that is by drawing in a much larger crowd than what you got before. It's quite apparent that in it's current state ESO doesn't have the needed mass appeal really, the recent steam sale brought just about a third new folks in compared to the initial steam launch and those numbers weren't that impressive either.

But still they do seem adamant on providing an equal starting ground for the champion system even at the loss of their loyal long time players that have committed endless hours to their game. They must be truly expecting an enormous influx of new players. But what could possibly bring them in?

Consoles will be on their dedicated servers, so that can't be it. And I doubt 1.6 nor 1.7 or 1.8 even will be that kind of awesome. So whatelse could be happening, that they're so focused on lowering entry barriers?

That's insightful but I don't see how this system is providing "equal" starting ground for this alleged mass of new players that might come to the game. Lets say there is a huge influx of players..they will be lvl 1 and have to level up to 50 and they will get 0 CP until they earn it one at a time. By the time that happens all the current people will be miles ahead of them with their 30 starting CP + whatever they earn (and grinders will have earned plenty by then).

So where does this "equality" come into play? Is it just for those players that hit 50 and quit? It would have to be the ones who hit 50 and didn't progress into vet levels much or they won't be happy but that is a rather narrow scope of players that would benefit from this and could easily be less than the people who will leave because of this. The whole thing makes no logical sense.

You actually have your answer right there. Look at your guild rosters, you'll see masses of players VR1 & 2, who have not played in months, unless you have a GM that culls. This is the demographic ZOS are wanting to bring back, it may cost some of the current player base to do so, but that's their hope. I can only speak for what those in my own guild gave as the reason for quitting and almost to a man it was not wanting to go through VR to join endgame.

People need to remember what this was all about at the start. VR was driving away players, those players may come back once VR is removed.

ThatHappyCat

While I personally am not ruffled by the 30 CP thing (and this is coming from a player with one V14 that's done all quests and no alts, not even non-vet ones), I'm desperately hoping that ZoS will reverse their position and give CPs based on EXP gained (or maybe just quests done to exclude grinders). Any advantage ZoS can hope to gain from this is far outweighed by the backlash from unhappy players, and I want to see ESO succeed; not sink like SWG did.

In the interest of ESO however, I will continue to state my opinion that it really isn't a big deal. Can't have all the (from my perspective, relatively baseless) hate give ESO a bad name (again), this is a crucial time for ESO and it needs good press.

Razzak

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

While I personally am not ruffled by the 30 CP thing (and this is coming from a player with one V14 that's done all quests and no alts, not even non-vet ones), I'm desperately hoping that ZoS will reverse their position and give CPs based on EXP gained (or maybe just quests done to exclude grinders). Any advantage ZoS can hope to gain from this is far outweighed by the backlash from unhappy players, and I want to see ESO succeed; not sink like SWG did.

In the interest of ESO however, I will continue to state my opinion that it really isn't a big deal. Can't have all the (from my perspective, relatively baseless) hate give ESO a bad name (again), this is a crucial time for ESO and it needs good press.

At times like this, ESO deserves a bad press, as that is the only thing that will make ZOS' officials think about what they are doing and the way they are communicating to us.

ThatHappyCat

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

While I personally am not ruffled by the 30 CP thing (and this is coming from a player with one V14 that's done all quests and no alts, not even non-vet ones), I'm desperately hoping that ZoS will reverse their position and give CPs based on EXP gained (or maybe just quests done to exclude grinders). Any advantage ZoS can hope to gain from this is far outweighed by the backlash from unhappy players, and I want to see ESO succeed; not sink like SWG did.

In the interest of ESO however, I will continue to state my opinion that it really isn't a big deal. Can't have all the (from my perspective, relatively baseless) hate give ESO a bad name (again), this is a crucial time for ESO and it needs good press.

At times like this, ESO deserves a bad press, as that is the only thing that will make ZOS' officials think about what they are doing and the way they are communicating to us.

From my perspective they don't, because I'm fine with this 30 CP thing. And the only result of bad press is we all lose a game we care about, there's a difference between purposefully spreading bad press and conveying constructive criticism.

As for ZoS communication: this whole debacle only started because ZoS communicated what they were doing during development. If they never told us they were considering making CPs awarded retroactively, things wouldn't be like this. So the only message ZoS is getting away from this is never communicate your plans to your players until they're finalised.

Razzak

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

While I personally am not ruffled by the 30 CP thing (and this is coming from a player with one V14 that's done all quests and no alts, not even non-vet ones), I'm desperately hoping that ZoS will reverse their position and give CPs based on EXP gained (or maybe just quests done to exclude grinders). Any advantage ZoS can hope to gain from this is far outweighed by the backlash from unhappy players, and I want to see ESO succeed; not sink like SWG did.

In the interest of ESO however, I will continue to state my opinion that it really isn't a big deal. Can't have all the (from my perspective, relatively baseless) hate give ESO a bad name (again), this is a crucial time for ESO and it needs good press.

At times like this, ESO deserves a bad press, as that is the only thing that will make ZOS' officials think about what they are doing and the way they are communicating to us.

From my perspective they don't, because I'm fine with this 30 CP thing. And the only result of bad press is we all lose a game we care about, there's a difference between purposefully spreading bad press and conveying constructive criticism.

As for ZoS communication: this whole debacle only started because ZoS communicated what they were doing during development. If they never told us they were considering making CPs awarded retroactively, things wouldn't be like this. So the only message ZoS is getting away from this is never communicate your plans to your players until they're finalised.

You make it sound like this debacle started because they communicated with us. And that's also what ZOS will probably try to turn it into. And it simply isn't true.
This whole debacle started with their guarantee. When an expert you trust, says something implicitly, you trust that. Because that person is an expert, someone who knows what she/he is saying.

It's not our fault they either employed people with poor knowledge of english language or with poor communication skills. But the real question is, was it really just a mistake? Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Whatever the reason is, ZOS has just become a company barely anyone will trust again. Is a console release also one of such "promises"?

ThatHappyCat

Razzak wrote: »

Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Do you truly believe that, or consider such a ploy (sarcastically or not) to be "ingenious"?

This is starting to smell like a conspiracy theory.

Hail Xenu

Grao

You know the worse part of this? The solution is so damn easy... Fine, give 30 points to everyone that reached vr1. Then give the CPs you'd earn per Vr level!!
So, if you are VR1, you get 30 CP, if you are VR2 you get 30 + x (x= exp needed to level / exp per CP) and so on... It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better then "Vr14s get nothing for their months of effort leveling up".

ThatHappyCat

Grao wrote: »

You know the worse part of this? The solution is so damn easy... Fine, give 30 points to everyone that reached vr1. Then give the CPs you'd earn per Vr level!!
So, if you are VR1, you get 30 CP, if you are VR2 you get 30 + x (x= exp needed to level / exp per CP) and so on... It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better then "Vr14s get nothing for their months of effort leveling up".

Or make it based on quest completion, since that's where the primary complainers are coming from. If you're complaining that all your grinding is wasted then you can be safely ignored

Razzak

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Do you truly believe that, or consider such a ploy (sarcastically or not) to be "ingenious"?

This is starting to smell like a conspiracy theory.

Hail Xenu

I call it 101 of earning money as a large, online company. Gina & Co are not our friends and couldn't care less about us, our feelings or anything related to us, that is not our money. So, why wouldn't they do it?

Enaijo

It wasn't a mistake. It can't be a mistake, it's just not possible.

They have people like Kai that are working as community manager for about a decade now, they know really well what they do.

At this point, I'm pretty sure they never had the intention to track our XP and give us CPs for them, never. It was just to keep us playing, not more not less.

"If" this was a mistake, they would have used words like "maybe", "we are planning" and so on the first time they said us that they will track our XP. "If" this was a mistake, they would have informed us much sooner that all the "XP tracking stuff" is likely to be changed. But they never informed us, never! It needed a [snip] in the forums to get a official statement, it doesn't came by their own choice. And it takes months to plan something like that, so another point why I'm sure their first statements about the tracking and rewarding were just to deceive us.

I like ESO very much, up to this point it was my favorite MMO for the next years and, up to this point, I really liked the people behind the game. But never in the MMO-history before was something like this done. Taking away a progression-system and not compensating the players who where participating in it. Never.

And no, we will never get compensated, that's what Kai wrote days ago and was, again, never translated and officialy posted to the english forums, just the german ones.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

criscal

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

...

As for ZoS communication: this whole debacle only started because ZoS communicated what they were doing during development. If they never told us they were considering making CPs awarded retroactively, things wouldn't be like this. So the only message ZoS is getting away from this is never communicate your plans to your players until they're finalised.

Well, they might draw this conclusion. But I personally doubt that a decision to not compensate veteran ranks in any way gets sugar-coated by just dropping it. It would not even contain the fury to a limited time. There are people out there that would use the average 15 days they still have left just to come online and gripe on a daily base.

ThatHappyCat

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Do you truly believe that, or consider such a ploy (sarcastically or not) to be "ingenious"?

This is starting to smell like a conspiracy theory.

Hail Xenu

I call it 101 of earning money as a large, online company. Gina & Co are not our friends and couldn't care less about us, our feelings or anything related to us, that is not our money.

Because it's stupid as the current situation shows. Purposefully telling a lie that you know will be revealed soon will backfire 100% of the time.

Razzak wrote: »

So, why wouldn't they do it?

Merciful Stendarr, are you serious? Are you saying if you're in that position, you would consider this to be a good plan?

If so, that... explains a lot, actually.

(For Stendarr's sake I hope you're trolling me.)

Grao

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

You know the worse part of this? The solution is so damn easy... Fine, give 30 points to everyone that reached vr1. Then give the CPs you'd earn per Vr level!!
So, if you are VR1, you get 30 CP, if you are VR2 you get 30 + x (x= exp needed to level / exp per CP) and so on... It wouldn't be perfect, but it would be better then "Vr14s get nothing for their months of effort leveling up".

Or make it based on quest completion, since that's where the primary complainers are coming from. If you're complaining that all your grinding is wasted then you can be safely ignored

I don't understand ZoS, their thinking can be so frustrating. What they should have done is give the points according to the how the system will work for a lvl character starting after the release of 1.6. It would have been easy and reasonably fair!

You need " X " exp to level and you need " Y " exp to get a champion point. Those values are the same for everyone! So it would be fair when distributing the Champion points, since even the low lvl 1 player would get the same points as a vr14, once they reached the proper level.

In addition to that, ZoS could add champion point rewards for the completion of certain achievements, to stimulate people towards questing, PvP, dungeons, etc... But no... 30 points to everyone with a vr1 character and ignore all the exp wasted in between vr1-vr14 for all the loyal players!

*EDIT: You don't even need exp tracking for this, just basic 4th grade math. Exp is a constant to EVERYONE until you are vr14!

I am not even mad they are not tracking the exp we gained after reaching vr14. I've always considered that to be lost exp just like it is on every other MMO. You don't instantly level up on WoW once the expansion is released just because you've been maxed leveled for months and still raiding.

All I want is some fairness...

Razzak

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Do you truly believe that, or consider such a ploy (sarcastically or not) to be "ingenious"?

This is starting to smell like a conspiracy theory.

Hail Xenu

I call it 101 of earning money as a large, online company. Gina & Co are not our friends and couldn't care less about us, our feelings or anything related to us, that is not our money.

Because it's stupid as the current situation shows. Purposefully telling a lie that you know will be revealed soon will backfire 100% of the time.

Razzak wrote: »

So, why wouldn't they do it?

Merciful Stendarr, are you serious? Are you saying if you're in that position, you would consider this to be a good plan?

If so, that... explains a lot, actually.

(For Stendarr's sake I hope you're trolling me.)

Bernie Madoff stole billions and what happened to him?
Do you really think they would not do it if their suits told them it's ok for short/medium/long term? Money is the only thing ZOS is interested in. More players playing longer, means more money.
Let's say they lied deliberately and for the purpose I have stated. Is there anything that you, me or anyone else can do to make them pay, get punished, apologize, ...
Basically, is there anything that could be done to show our displeasure, besides unsubbing? No, there isn't. And they know it.

I would not be saying such a thing if their attitude towards their players was not so appalling. But I haven't had the "pleasure" of working with worse CS and I've been playing SWTOR (EA) for 2 years.

ThatHappyCat

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Do you truly believe that, or consider such a ploy (sarcastically or not) to be "ingenious"?

This is starting to smell like a conspiracy theory.

Hail Xenu

I call it 101 of earning money as a large, online company. Gina & Co are not our friends and couldn't care less about us, our feelings or anything related to us, that is not our money.

Because it's stupid as the current situation shows. Purposefully telling a lie that you know will be revealed soon will backfire 100% of the time.

Razzak wrote: »

So, why wouldn't they do it?

Merciful Stendarr, are you serious? Are you saying if you're in that position, you would consider this to be a good plan?

If so, that... explains a lot, actually.

(For Stendarr's sake I hope you're trolling me.)

Bernie Madoff stole billions and what happened to him?
Do you really think they would not do it if their suits told them it's ok for short/medium/long term? Money is the only thing ZOS is interested in. More players playing longer, means more money.
Let's say they lied deliberately and for the purpose I have stated. Is there anything that you, me or anyone else can do to make them pay, get punished, apologize, ...
Basically, is there anything that could be done to show our displeasure, besides unsubbing? No, there isn't. And they know it.

I would not be saying such a thing if their attitude towards their players was not so appalling. But I haven't had the "pleasure" of working with worse CS and I've been playing SWTOR (EA) for 2 years.

I'm saying they're not stupid enough to do it. You seem to genuinely think they're benefiting from this (when any idiot can see this doesn't benefit them at all, quite the opposite), so evidently you are.

Razzak

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Razzak wrote: »

Or an ingenious way to retain players that would otherwise leave?

Do you truly believe that, or consider such a ploy (sarcastically or not) to be "ingenious"?

This is starting to smell like a conspiracy theory.

Hail Xenu

I call it 101 of earning money as a large, online company. Gina & Co are not our friends and couldn't care less about us, our feelings or anything related to us, that is not our money.

Because it's stupid as the current situation shows. Purposefully telling a lie that you know will be revealed soon will backfire 100% of the time.

Razzak wrote: »

So, why wouldn't they do it?

Merciful Stendarr, are you serious? Are you saying if you're in that position, you would consider this to be a good plan?

If so, that... explains a lot, actually.

(For Stendarr's sake I hope you're trolling me.)

Bernie Madoff stole billions and what happened to him?
Do you really think they would not do it if their suits told them it's ok for short/medium/long term? Money is the only thing ZOS is interested in. More players playing longer, means more money.
Let's say they lied deliberately and for the purpose I have stated. Is there anything that you, me or anyone else can do to make them pay, get punished, apologize, ...
Basically, is there anything that could be done to show our displeasure, besides unsubbing? No, there isn't. And they know it.

I would not be saying such a thing if their attitude towards their players was not so appalling. But I haven't had the "pleasure" of working with worse CS and I've been playing SWTOR (EA) for 2 years.

I'm saying they're not stupid enough to do it. You seem to genuinely think they're benefiting from this (when any idiot can see this doesn't benefit them at all, quite the opposite), so evidently you are.

That's the thing. It's still unclear if this benefits them or not. Some say there will be a massive influx of new and/or returning players with 1.6. Will there be such a thing or will the number of players that will quit, be larger than those that resub?

The whole F2P with cash shop is based on a perception that you need some sort of fanaticism and you can sell 20 EUR haircuts. And where do you have more fanatics, besides in churches? In games, and especially MMOs. So, is it stupid if they take advantage of our obsession with gaming? I think it's naive not to expect them to do at least try to do it.

Audigy

Enaijo wrote: »

It wasn't a mistake. It can't be a mistake, it's just not possible.

They have people like Kai that are working as community manager for about a decade now, they know really well what they do.

At this point, I'm pretty sure they never had the intention to track our XP and give us CPs for them, never. It was just to keep us playing, not more not less.

"If" this was a mistake, they would have used words like "maybe", "we are planning" and so on the first time they said us that they will track our XP. "If" this was a mistake, they would have informed us much sooner that all the "XP tracking stuff" is likely to be changed. But they never informed us, never! It needed a [snip] in the forums to get a official statement, it doesn't came by their own choice. And it takes months to plan something like that, so another point why I'm sure their first statements about the tracking and rewarding were just to deceive us.

I like ESO very much, up to this point it was my favorite MMO for the next years and, up to this point, I really liked the people behind the game. But never in the MMO-history before was something like this done. Taking away a progression-system and not compensating the players who where participating in it. Never.

And no, we will never get compensated, that's what Kai wrote days ago and was, again, never translated and officialy posted to the english forums, just the german ones.

You are wrong.

We made Rank 14 at Vanilla WOW, it took a long time and a few weeks later everyone and his cat could get the title.

EA made a server move at SWTOR, thousands of players lost their legacy, guild and char names - no compensation ever.

MMO progress is not forever, a lesson you might have learned now. That's why people focusing so much on their virtual success are better of to put the same effort into RL where progress actually means something in the end.

You might lose a job, but you will have good credentials then to find another. In MMO games this doesn't exist, you can be the hero today and the fool tomorrow, that's just how it is.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Rylana

To those of you thinking a v14 char with 30 CP is in anyway on par to a v1 with 30 CP

Learn to math pl0x, and realize all your "achievements" are not "wasted"

V14 perks
- 13 additional skill points
- 13 additional attribute points
- Higher softcaps
- Gear several tiers higher, with stat adjustments that are not only significant, but massively significant, especially in categories like weapon power and armor rating. Go compare a v1 staff with a v14 staff right now and tell me they are even in the same league.
- Completion potentially of Silver + Gold netting another 40 skill points from Skyshards (even just doing Cadwells quests alone and ignoring the rest of the zone, you will gain more than 15 SPs)
- Many more completed skills lines than any V1 ever could have done by this point
- Additional Skyshards/SPs from Vet Dungeons, Group dungeon challenges, and Craglorn
- Mages/Undaunted rep (more lorebooks to hit rank 10 mages, more vet dungeons achieves/pledges done for Undaunted.



You cant simply say that just because you have 30 CP in common that the two are in any way on par with each other. I mean seriously, V1 toons usually dont even have all their CLASS skill lines 100% done yet, much less anything beyond that.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed.

A few months ago, it was said that we were tracking XP. However, this was still early in development and through internal testing and feedback, found that we needed to change our plans (and, honestly, this quite normal through the course of development). We understand that this was, indeed, a major change from what we were originally planning. In an effort to be open with everyone about how things were going and what was planned, it caused a great deal of confusion, and we sincerely apologize for that.

As it has been said a number of times, we certainly encourage you to hop on the PTS once this is available in January and try out the system. This is also a great chance to plan how you'd like to build your character once it's live!

Hope you all are enjoying the holidays, and we'll see you in the new year.

what a load of crap.

Kaliki

Audigy wrote: »

We made Rank 14 at Vanilla WOW, it took a long time and a few weeks later everyone and his cat could get the title.

EA made a server move at SWTOR, thousands of players lost their legacy, guild and char names - no compensation ever.

But were you stripped of the rank and had to get it again?
Is a guild or char name comparable with months of progress?

Grao

Audigy wrote: »

Enaijo wrote: »

It wasn't a mistake. It can't be a mistake, it's just not possible.

They have people like Kai that are working as community manager for about a decade now, they know really well what they do.

At this point, I'm pretty sure they never had the intention to track our XP and give us CPs for them, never. It was just to keep us playing, not more not less.

"If" this was a mistake, they would have used words like "maybe", "we are planning" and so on the first time they said us that they will track our XP. "If" this was a mistake, they would have informed us much sooner that all the "XP tracking stuff" is likely to be changed. But they never informed us, never! It needed a [snip] in the forums to get a official statement, it doesn't came by their own choice. And it takes months to plan something like that, so another point why I'm sure their first statements about the tracking and rewarding were just to deceive us.

I like ESO very much, up to this point it was my favorite MMO for the next years and, up to this point, I really liked the people behind the game. But never in the MMO-history before was something like this done. Taking away a progression-system and not compensating the players who where participating in it. Never.

And no, we will never get compensated, that's what Kai wrote days ago and was, again, never translated and officialy posted to the english forums, just the german ones.

You are wrong.

We made Rank 14 at Vanilla WOW, it took a long time and a few weeks later everyone and his cat could get the title.

EA made a server move at SWTOR, thousands of players lost their legacy, guild and char names - no compensation ever.

MMO progress is not forever, a lesson you might have learned now. That's why people focusing so much on their virtual success are better of to put the same effort into RL where progress actually means something in the end.

You might lose a job, but you will have good credentials then to find another. In MMO games this doesn't exist, you can be the hero today and the fool tomorrow, that's just how it is.

Thing is, Vanilla WoW was 10 or so years ago. THe vision and game base of MMOs changed so much since that WOW never, ever made that mistake again. Zos Doesn't learn from history? Are they planning to go through every sin ever committed by other MMO companies? They did release the game months before it was actually ready to be released, so I guess we are in for a really crappy ride.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Razzak

Rylana wrote: »

To those of you thinking a v14 char with 30 CP is in anyway on par to a v1 with 30 CP

Learn to math pl0x, and realize all your "achievements" are not "wasted"

V14 perks
- 13 additional skill points
- 13 additional attribute points
- Higher softcaps
- Gear several tiers higher, with stat adjustments that are not only significant, but massively significant, especially in categories like weapon power and armor rating. Go compare a v1 staff with a v14 staff right now and tell me they are even in the same league.
- Completion potentially of Silver + Gold netting another 40 skill points from Skyshards (even just doing Cadwells quests alone and ignoring the rest of the zone, you will gain more than 15 SPs)
- Many more completed skills lines than any V1 ever could have done by this point
- Additional Skyshards/SPs from Vet Dungeons, Group dungeon challenges, and Craglorn
- Mages/Undaunted rep (more lorebooks to hit rank 10 mages, more vet dungeons achieves/pledges done for Undaunted.



You cant simply say that just because you have 30 CP in common that the two are in any way on par with each other. I mean seriously, V1 toons usually dont even have all their CLASS skill lines 100% done yet, much less anything beyond that.

Can you spend as much time questing, as you do doing repeatable content? I, and many others, can't.

It's not our achievements. It's our ability to do content.
If you are V1 with 30 CPs, you will have entire silver and gold to earn further CPs. In my case, I am perfectly capable of doing quests hour after hour. They are not repetitive and offer a nice peek into lore, NPCs and their stories and similar. I, and probably many others, can do this kind of gaming without much fuss. So, I quest, earn CPs and level my Vet rank.
If you are V14 with silver and gold content finished, your are left with repeatable quests to earn further CPs. So, you do repeatable content and earn CPs.

In the time that it took that V1 to get to V14, who managed to accumulate more CPs? Or do both of us have more or less the same amount of CPs?
This is the most important question. They implemented this 30 CPs for every Vet char so lower Vet players would not feel underpowered or underleveled. What if I manage to accumulate much more CPs due to me being able to play longer as I am playing quests, than you who has only repeatable content and are not able to play as much as I do? Simply because questing is leap and bounds ahead of repeatable content, when it comes to having fun or playing a lot.
So, after a while I, who started with Vet1 and gifted 30 CPs, will be ahead of you, who started as Vet14.

Frenkthevile

PlagueMonk wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi guys, just wanted to pop in and put this to rest. What Kai said a few days ago is correct. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, once Update 6 is released and you have at least one Veteran Rank character, all your characters will receive 30 Champion Points - no more, no less. This will only occur at the onset of Update 6; after this is released, you will gain Champion Points one at a time as designed.

A few months ago, it was said that we were tracking XP. However, this was still early in development and through internal testing and feedback, found that we needed to change our plans (and, honestly, this quite normal through the course of development). We understand that this was, indeed, a major change from what we were originally planning. In an effort to be open with everyone about how things were going and what was planned, it caused a great deal of confusion, and we sincerely apologize for that.

As it has been said a number of times, we certainly encourage you to hop on the PTS once this is available in January and try out the system. This is also a great chance to plan how you'd like to build your character once it's live!

Hope you all are enjoying the holidays, and we'll see you in the new year.

SOOOOOOO....you have basically taken the position to majorly ******* your loyal customers over (you know the ones who have been paying YOUR salaries since you claimed you would be tracking exp) and think the health and future of the game is with newer players????

Now that you have officially answered we (your loyal customers) need to hear WHY you think that this is somehow fair. Like most others here outraged at this announcement, I have done all of the silver/gold content, I have done ALL of lower/upper Craglorn (well except for 2 of the trials). That is an absolutely HUGE amount of readily available exp (well the silver/gold are soloable) that I will not be able to use to earn CP and no amount of daily/repeatable quests is going to compensate us for that.

What your new direction boils down to is, the fresh VR1's will have 2-3 times the amount of CP couple of months down the line as they do the questing content. How is this even remotely fair exactly????

So if your final decision is 30 CP, period, end of story, you sure as HELL had better figure out how to compensate us VR14s who are feeling pretty screwed over.

Some possibilities are:

- Giving all who have completed the silver/gold content and lower/upper Craglorn an exp multiplier to be directly applied to any and all repeatable/dailies. The exact multiplier will be dependent on where you are in that process but should allow us V14s to gain a similar amount of exp to what the fresh VR1s can earn.

- As above but simply give us a CP multiplier so we will earn CP faster than VR1's.

- Nerf the hell out of the content past 50 (oh wait, this wouldn't be fair to the new VR1s would it?! O.o..........well welcome to the ***** you party)

PLEASE NOTE: None of the above are a permanent solution. Consider this part of the "adjustment period" and would only be an option for 1 update and then removed. That will give those willing to continue playing a window of opportunity to earn the same amount of CP a VR1 would have.

- And while I'm hesitant to mention this one......reset the post 50 content for EVERYONE. While I would not be thrilled about this prospect, at least I would have the option of re-completing it for the CP if i felt I could stomach it. (this however does NOT mean reset my achievements for doing that content)


Any one of those solutions would work but you have GOT to compensate your loyal VR14 players is a meaningful way so we will have the SAME amount of CP a few months down the line as the new VR1s.

Hey calm down, we got PETS. Meh.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]