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REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF
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Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »@Armitas The fact that he was ultimately victorious is meaningless. He had to put a lot of work into that and is probably a very skilled player. But that's the point. A sorcerer has to be skilled in PvP to be successful, a nightblade also has to have some skill to be successful. A DK is a faceroll and presumably you don't agree because you play one. You are terrified that they are going to do something that might actually make you have to work at PvP. Stop pretending like DK's are this nuanced class that takes skill to play.
That he won is kind of not meaningless. Puting a lot of work into a class is what you are suppose to do to win. PvP is not meant to be a face roll.
DK is easier to play for sure. You can copy a build and look awesome against other unskilled players but as soon as you meet a skilled player things change if you don't have skill yourself. It means you have to work to win, which is how pvp should be.Retired.
Nord mDK5 -
Gargragrond✭✭✭
Every 3.5 secs
> ~142 DPS. So yes, with the powers of math I can prove this is weak. Particularly on a DK with GDB. GDB can't heal more than 142 DPS??? lol.
As as sustained way, no, but it is quite close - let's try those powers of math:
Let's say DK has 3300hp, and cast gdb at ~25% health in order to avoid disintegration.. i.e. dk casts it at 800hp, and gains (3300-800)*0.33 = 825 health. gdb cost 448 magicka, so the value is 1.84 health / magicka point.
If the dk has soft capped magicka regen, he gains 135 magicka every 2s, so gdb provides sustained healing of 135/2 * 1.84 = 124 hps. To reach 142hps, it's necessary to supplement the magicka with overcapping and/or cost reduction, which sacrifice stamina, which comes with whole other set of difficulties e.g. against fear-mongering nb's.
The curse is quite good dps vs. the healing provided by gdb in the long term.2 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
That's not even the title of this thread...
@Xeniph That was a very well thought out and honest assessment of the ability. @Jahosefat I think that pretty much sums up all of the frustration people have with the DK and RS in particular.
The class is OP only because it doesn't suffer the penalties and restrictions other classes do. Other classes have trade offs for using their more powerful abilities like Bolt Escape, where the cost is extremely high, or the effects of the abilities are reduced, like the nightblade's Fear which only effects 2 targets unlike the 6 targets of most AoEs. Nightblades have Siphoning Attacks, which is great for replenishing magicka and stamina but reduces weapon and spell damage by a whopping 25%. Sorcerers have Dark Exchange which is great to get health and magicka back but depletes their stamina. These are only a few examples.
So what restrictions do DK's have for similar abilities? The answer is none. There is no penalty to cast any DK ability aside from the cost of the resource. GDB not only restores a large chunk of health right away but also increases HP and stamina regen for it's duration, with absolutely no penalty. Reflective Scales makes the DK invulnerable 90% of ranged attacks and can easily be recast every 4 seconds. Again with no penalty. Talons not only roots but also causes damage and of course has no penalty to the DK.
Basically what needs to happen is that either DK abilities need to start including some sort of penalty or the penalties should be removed from the other classes abilities to make them more competitive. DK's have excellent defense and excellent damage simultaneously which makes it very one sided when fighting them.
dont forget that RS reflects a ultimate skill....meteor......
p.s. stop making sense. People dont like that lolEdited by Gorthax on December 3, 2014 6:10PM2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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Same goes for ranged caster NB's. Just as I got the hang of the ridiculous fights against DK's, a nerf and a a fix made it a lot harder again.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »The fixes to sharpened and cycle of life, as well as the nerfs to shield-stacking have hit Sorcs harder. As I've said before, I got a 25% drop in my damage output while my main damage ability for DK (Flame Whip) was unaffected.2 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
Same goes for ranged caster NB's. Just as I got the hang of the ridiculous fights against DK's, a nerf and a a fix made it a lot harder again.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »The fixes to sharpened and cycle of life, as well as the nerfs to shield-stacking have hit Sorcs harder. As I've said before, I got a 25% drop in my damage output while my main damage ability for DK (Flame Whip) was unaffected.
cant have other people coming close to as good as DK are now can they?0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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So you should only have to work if you are not a DK? Do you see how stupid your argument is yet, or are you going to double down and say something else?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »@Armitas The fact that he was ultimately victorious is meaningless. He had to put a lot of work into that and is probably a very skilled player. But that's the point. A sorcerer has to be skilled in PvP to be successful, a nightblade also has to have some skill to be successful. A DK is a faceroll and presumably you don't agree because you play one. You are terrified that they are going to do something that might actually make you have to work at PvP. Stop pretending like DK's are this nuanced class that takes skill to play.
That he won is kind of not meaningless. Puting a lot of work into a class is what you are suppose to do to win. PvP is not meant to be a face roll.
DK is easier to play for sure. You can copy a build and look awesome against other unskilled players but as soon as you meet a skilled player things change if you don't have skill yourself. It means you have to work to win, which is how pvp should be.
:trollin:3 -
Darklord_Tiberius✭✭✭✭Spells & Ranged Attacks... May as well reflect ballista fire while we are at it! Remove melee reflect, or spells. FFS the entire EP population is a DK Vamp with bows in one hand and a Impulse spamming Destro staff in the other.
Reflecting spells and ranged, some melee, and for 6-8 seconds, is a little much.
I am surprised the entire population isn't running a DK+Vamp+Bow+Destro...
Impulse +devouring swarm +reflective scales = rinse and repeat
Snipe +Reflective Scales +Poison Arrow, poison arrow, poison arrow...
Oh, and reflecting Ultimates? Do tell...
None of our DKs are Vamps lol. Phoenix Rising just wipes the floor with yall and you make up these "builds" we are running. Love it.0 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »Spells & Ranged Attacks... May as well reflect ballista fire while we are at it! Remove melee reflect, or spells. FFS the entire EP population is a DK Vamp with bows in one hand and a Impulse spamming Destro staff in the other.
Reflecting spells and ranged, some melee, and for 6-8 seconds, is a little much.
I am surprised the entire population isn't running a DK+Vamp+Bow+Destro...
Impulse +devouring swarm +reflective scales = rinse and repeat
Snipe +Reflective Scales +Poison Arrow, poison arrow, poison arrow...
Oh, and reflecting Ultimates? Do tell...
None of our DKs are Vamps lol. Phoenix Rising just wipes the floor with yall and you make up these "builds" we are running. Love it.
To be fair here it is pretty common to see a vast majority of EP flapping their wings running in a zerg lol but hey it does look pretty funny to see
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eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Every faction does it and I don't fault them for doing so. It's up to ZOS to balance the classes not the players. The DKs can defend their position all they want, at the end of the day nothing is immune to the nerf bat and their time will come.Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »Spells & Ranged Attacks... May as well reflect ballista fire while we are at it! Remove melee reflect, or spells. FFS the entire EP population is a DK Vamp with bows in one hand and a Impulse spamming Destro staff in the other.
Reflecting spells and ranged, some melee, and for 6-8 seconds, is a little much.
I am surprised the entire population isn't running a DK+Vamp+Bow+Destro...
Impulse +devouring swarm +reflective scales = rinse and repeat
Snipe +Reflective Scales +Poison Arrow, poison arrow, poison arrow...
Oh, and reflecting Ultimates? Do tell...
None of our DKs are Vamps lol. Phoenix Rising just wipes the floor with yall and you make up these "builds" we are running. Love it.
To be fair here it is pretty common to see a vast majority of EP flapping their wings running in a zerg lol but hey it does look pretty funny to see
:trollin:3 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gargragrond wrote: »
Every 3.5 secs
> ~142 DPS. So yes, with the powers of math I can prove this is weak. Particularly on a DK with GDB. GDB can't heal more than 142 DPS??? lol.
As as sustained way, no, but it is quite close - let's try those powers of math:
Let's say DK has 3300hp, and cast gdb at ~25% health in order to avoid disintegration.. i.e. dk casts it at 800hp, and gains (3300-800)*0.33 = 825 health. gdb cost 448 magicka, so the value is 1.84 health / magicka point.
If the dk has soft capped magicka regen, he gains 135 magicka every 2s, so gdb provides sustained healing of 135/2 * 1.84 = 124 hps. To reach 142hps, it's necessary to supplement the magicka with overcapping and/or cost reduction, which sacrifice stamina, which comes with whole other set of difficulties e.g. against fear-mongering nb's.
The curse is quite good dps vs. the healing provided by gdb in the long term.
Does Health Regen as a stat and Dragon Blood's 20 second increase to it factor in anywhere?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Milf_Hero✭✭✭People complain about their classes being nerfed so why do it to dragon knights? I do play one. Though I play my on way with a build that I made so its rough around the edges. Reflective scales and other DK skills do have penalties. Though I think penalties for using a class skill is dumb really. Relective scales needs to b constantly recast. 4 seconds is not long. Using that to keep ranged attackers at bay does nothing against close ranged ppl. Use talons then right? talons is short range and people can roll. duh. so don't act like you can't counter that. Green Dragons blood only gives a chunk percentage of the missing health and magicka cost is not on the inexpensive. so if im missing 2000 health I get about 800 back on cast. Which you can loose in a millisecond fighting in Cyrodiil. Specially with people cutting your heals in half all the time with NB skills, armor/weapon sets, or with bow. Dragon Knight skills are all close ranged. This is their penalty. They have to be in your face to hurt you with class skills. reflective scales is their only defense against every other class capable of ranged attacks. In my mind. It makes sense. What could be done is some of the penalties should be rebalanced on other classes but im only saying that because id wish people would stop hating on DKs. rebalance the penalties on other classes except the sorc. Scew your bolt escape. it still works like it use to. all you need to do is use it twice. who the *** could catch you after that? another sorc? Also needs that penalty so its not used in combat as an attack. Funny that it is called bolt escape and not bolt engage or bolt attack! haha. maybe it should just be called blink or just bolt. Then you could take off the penalty.You name it, and ill kill it.2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Gargragrond wrote: »
Every 3.5 secs
> ~142 DPS. So yes, with the powers of math I can prove this is weak. Particularly on a DK with GDB. GDB can't heal more than 142 DPS??? lol.
As as sustained way, no, but it is quite close - let's try those powers of math:
Let's say DK has 3300hp, and cast gdb at ~25% health in order to avoid disintegration.. i.e. dk casts it at 800hp, and gains (3300-800)*0.33 = 825 health. gdb cost 448 magicka, so the value is 1.84 health / magicka point.
If the dk has soft capped magicka regen, he gains 135 magicka every 2s, so gdb provides sustained healing of 135/2 * 1.84 = 124 hps. To reach 142hps, it's necessary to supplement the magicka with overcapping and/or cost reduction, which sacrifice stamina, which comes with whole other set of difficulties e.g. against fear-mongering nb's.
The curse is quite good dps vs. the healing provided by gdb in the long term.
Does Health Regen as a stat and Dragon Blood's 20 second increase to it factor in anywhere?
The stamina return is even more significant. I think I get about 200-300 extra stamina back over the duration of gdb.
And if we're gonna go down this path, let's look at the cost efficiency of Unstable Flame. Costs less than 100 for light armor wearers and the dot scales to up to 280 per tick.
The damage of the sorc is too low at the moment which ever way you spin it. Garga knows this really. He's a very competent duellist.Edited by Maulkin on December 3, 2014 9:24PMEU | PC | AD3 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
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At least NB's can and are forced to use melee class skills and be an S&B wearing Ambush -> Surprise attack monkey. This is a lot harder if not impossible for Sorcs.The damage of the sorc is too low at the moment which ever way you spin it. Garga knows this really. He's a very competent duellist.
Edited by Lava_Croft on December 3, 2014 8:26PM0 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Just because you choose to play your DK gimped doesn't mean the vast majority do. Even some of the wost players know to keep RS on. How can you say that DK's have no ranged ability? You didn't know that you can use the abilities in the destruction staff line? Or the bow line? Your comment makes no sense.People complain about their classes being nerfed so why do it to dragon knights? I do play one. Though I play my on way with a build that I made so its rough around the edges. Reflective scales and other DK skills do have penalties. Though I think penalties for using a class skill is dumb really. Relective scales needs to b constantly recast. 4 seconds is not long. Using that to keep ranged attackers at bay does nothing against close ranged ppl. Use talons then right? talons is short range and people can roll. duh. so don't act like you can't counter that. Green Dragons blood only gives a chunk percentage of the missing health and magicka cost is not on the inexpensive. so if im missing 2000 health I get about 800 back on cast. Which you can loose in a millisecond fighting in Cyrodiil. Specially with people cutting your heals in half all the time with NB skills, armor/weapon sets, or with bow. Dragon Knight skills are all close ranged. This is their penalty. They have to be in your face to hurt you with class skills. reflective scales is their only defense against every other class capable of ranged attacks. In my mind. It makes sense. What could be done is some of the penalties should be rebalanced on other classes but im only saying that because id wish people would stop hating on DKs. rebalance the penalties on other classes except the sorc. Scew your bolt escape. it still works like it use to. all you need to do is use it twice. who the *** could catch you after that? another sorc? Also needs that penalty so its not used in combat as an attack. Funny that it is called bolt escape and not bolt engage or bolt attack! haha. maybe it should just be called blink or just bolt. Then you could take off the penalty.Edited by eventide03b14a_ESO on December 3, 2014 8:26PM:trollin:0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Every faction does it and I don't fault them for doing so. It's up to ZOS to balance the classes not the players. The DKs can defend their position all they want, at the end of the day nothing is immune to the nerf bat and their time will come.Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »Spells & Ranged Attacks... May as well reflect ballista fire while we are at it! Remove melee reflect, or spells. FFS the entire EP population is a DK Vamp with bows in one hand and a Impulse spamming Destro staff in the other.
Reflecting spells and ranged, some melee, and for 6-8 seconds, is a little much.
I am surprised the entire population isn't running a DK+Vamp+Bow+Destro...
Impulse +devouring swarm +reflective scales = rinse and repeat
Snipe +Reflective Scales +Poison Arrow, poison arrow, poison arrow...
Oh, and reflecting Ultimates? Do tell...
None of our DKs are Vamps lol. Phoenix Rising just wipes the floor with yall and you make up these "builds" we are running. Love it.
To be fair here it is pretty common to see a vast majority of EP flapping their wings running in a zerg lol but hey it does look pretty funny to see
Lol. What do you mean "their time will come"? They have been directly nerfed more than any class since launch.
It's been "their time" since AprilEdited by Maulkin on December 3, 2014 8:28PMEU | PC | AD4 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be fair here it is pretty common to see a vast majority of EP flapping their wings running in a zerg lol but hey it does look pretty funny to see
To be fair here it's pretty common to die instantly to multiple Lethal Arrows if you aren't flapping wings. So it's understandable that people choose to play their DK in PvP at the moment. It's the only class with a counter against the most over-tuned fotm ability in the game.
It's bows versus DK's versus DK's with bows. All other play-styles and classes life expectancy got shortened with roughly 50-80% after the Elder Snipe Online patch. This while DK's can keep charging into zergs as if nothing happened or changed.
I'm not saying nerf Scales. But objectively speaking, no one can call this situation, or current PvP meta, balanced.1 -
frozywozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It amuses me to read all those posts of people doing maths about gdb healing the players back to full.
Have you ever heard of the disease enchant?
In most scenario, gdb must be spammed 5-6times to get back above 75% hps if the player was under 25% hps.
Have you ever heard of lethal arrow x2?
Without a purge, gdb has almost no effect.
95% of the time, if a dragonknight gets in melee combat with multiple enemies which he always does, he will get one or the other and all of your very complex maths will be wrong and unappropriated.Edited by frozywozy on December 3, 2014 8:38PMFrozn - Stamdk - AR50
Frosted - Magplar - AR50
Frodn - Magden - AR50
Warmed - Magblade - AR50
Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
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PvP Group Builds
“Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt- Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
- Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
- Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
- Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
- Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
- Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
- Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
- Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
- Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
- Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
- Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
- Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
- Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
- Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
- Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
- Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
- Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
- Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
- Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
- Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
- Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
- Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
- Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
- Introduce dynamic population
- Lower population cap by 20%
- Add Snare Immunity potions
- Bring resurrection sickness
- Fix character desync
- Fix cc breaking bug
- Fix gap closer bug
- Fix health desync
- Fix combat bug
- Fix streak bug
- Fix server lag
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Milf_Hero✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Just because you choose to play your DK gimped doesn't mean the vast majority do. Even some of the wost players know to keep RS on. How can you say that DK's have no ranged ability? You didn't know that you can use the abilities in the destruction staff line? Or the bow line? Your comment makes no sense.
I said they have not ranged class ability. CLASS ABILTIY. sure they have stone fist or chains but they arnt something you spam for damage and usually have shorter ranged than most other CLASS ABILTIES
And I don't give two *** if I play gimped. if the person keeps RS on all the time hit them in the face with a melee. damn. its that simple.Edited by Milf_Hero on December 3, 2014 8:35PMYou name it, and ill kill it.0 -
Jahosefat✭✭✭✭People complain about their classes being nerfed so why do it to dragon knights? I do play one. Though I play my on way with a build that I made so its rough around the edges. Reflective scales and other DK skills do have penalties. Though I think penalties for using a class skill is dumb really. Relective scales needs to b constantly recast. 4 seconds is not long. Using that to keep ranged attackers at bay does nothing against close ranged ppl. Use talons then right? talons is short range and people can roll. duh. so don't act like you can't counter that. Green Dragons blood only gives a chunk percentage of the missing health and magicka cost is not on the inexpensive. so if im missing 2000 health I get about 800 back on cast. Which you can loose in a millisecond fighting in Cyrodiil. Specially with people cutting your heals in half all the time with NB skills, armor/weapon sets, or with bow. Dragon Knight skills are all close ranged. This is their penalty. They have to be in your face to hurt you with class skills. reflective scales is their only defense against every other class capable of ranged attacks. In my mind. It makes sense. What could be done is some of the penalties should be rebalanced on other classes but im only saying that because id wish people would stop hating on DKs. rebalance the penalties on other classes except the sorc. Scew your bolt escape. it still works like it use to. all you need to do is use it twice. who the *** could catch you after that? another sorc? Also needs that penalty so its not used in combat as an attack. Funny that it is called bolt escape and not bolt engage or bolt attack! haha. maybe it should just be called blink or just bolt. Then you could take off the penalty.
LOL. Buff every class but sorc! That will balance pvp... Green dragons blood is arguable the best self heal in the game. What other heal competes with it? The temp heal is the only one that come close, but the mana efficient version can cast on random people if their health is lower than yours and in range.
But again, is this a Dk saying green dragons blood isn't that good?? Go play another class and be enlightened. Actually, roll a sorc and see how PVP goes for ya after facerolling a DK for months.
Green Dragons Blood is the best and most reliable self heal in the game, and DKs need the reflect to "survive". DKs need RS to face tank 10+ people or extend a bad boring fight to 10+ minutes; that is what this is argument is about on the DK side. Not to mention, DKs also have a class shield! So with a shield and the best self heal in the game DKs would be totally ruined if RS had an increased cost for spamming? I think they would be doing just fine and ZOS wouldn't have to "balance" all the other classes around 1 overly strong ability (as the DKs seem fond of suggesting).
Joeshock- AD NA AB Thorn Chill Sorc New Eden Low Sec Roamer
Fight not with monsters lest ye become one2 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭Scew your bolt escape. it still works like it use to. all you need to do is use it twice. who the *** could catch you after that? another sorc? Also needs that penalty so its not used in combat as an attack. Funny that it is called bolt escape and not bolt engage or bolt attack! haha. maybe it should just be called blink or just bolt. Then you could take off the penalty.
While I will give you that BE still works mostly, and due to proper gearing it can be cast near indefinitely. When it is used in this way it's as an escape. However you are forgetting one morph is SUPPOSED to be used offensively, as an attack it still suffers from the CC immunity timers concerning the stun,the damage potential it is not even in the same league as Dragon Fire Scales used properly. The other morph can absorb projectiles, but is somewhat unreliable, though useful. As a side note, the skill that has the damage component tied to it is called Streak, no mention of escaping.
As for the "who can catch you?" statement. Just about anyone with a gap closer or a ranged weapon, unless they spam it. At which point the Sorc is no longer a threat and best left alone.
But hey, this is not a Sorc thread, though some folks seem to think it is.
The ability in question affects ALL ranged projectiles. Weapon and class skills alike. So if you feel like defending or condemning it, do us all a favor and try to remain on task and objective.
Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.1 -
SRIBES✭✭✭✭✭
When I think of the roles each class plays I see it like this.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »
As much as those fixes were necessary (I reiterate that), Sorc damage is at the moment too low considering the lack of defensive mechanisms and quick heals built in the class. Basically the problem of the class becoming more glass and less cannon at the same time, as I usually put it.
Temp = Healer
DK = Tank
NB = dps
Sorc = ?... negate?
Yeah sorcs need looking at for sure.
Temp = healer
DK = Tank
NB = DPS/support heals
Sorc = solo class0 -
Milf_Hero✭✭✭what people should be complaining about is Unstoppable. Armor abilities should require a certain amount of the particular armor type be to able to be used. Thus those DKs that can't be stopped by an uppercut, nocked down by crystal shards when they don't have RS up, would not have as much DPS because they would have to put on x amount of heavy armor.You name it, and ill kill it.0
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Gargragrond✭✭✭Gargragrond wrote: »
If the dk has soft capped magicka regen, he gains 135 magicka every 2s, so gdb provides sustained healing of 135/2 * 1.84 = 124 hps. To reach 142hps, it's necessary to supplement the magicka with overcapping and/or cost reduction, which sacrifice stamina, which comes with whole other set of difficulties e.g. against fear-mongering nb's.
The curse is quite good dps vs. the healing provided by gdb in the long term.
Does Health Regen as a stat and Dragon Blood's 20 second increase to it factor in anywhere?
Ah, yes, the health regen boost will provide a bit extra, but probably <10 hps, depending on the loadout. Total is still less than the dps from curse. The health regen soft-cap is lower than the other stats, and generally less useful than magicka (it's more effective to go for extra magicka and more gdb..), so i doubt it's a popular strategy to try to boost it up too much.
Edited by Gargragrond on December 3, 2014 8:41PM1 -
Milf_Hero✭✭✭
The ability in question affects ALL ranged projectiles. Weapon and class skills alike. So if you feel like defending or condemning it, do us all a favor and try to remain on task and objective.
I believe people are using sorc's nerf as a reason why DK abilities should be nerfed and also saying it should get the same penalty. Hmmm. So I guess your telling me I shouldn't point out why the sorc's nerf is the way it is because it makes since for an escape ability to cost more each cast than for a protection ability for a player who will be in the fray of a fight.
EDIT:
ALSO people are bringing up GDB, igneous shield or its other morph, and gap closing skills. I'm pitching an augment against these people bringing these other skills into the picture and trying to use it as ammunition to nerf reflective scales.
so I believe I am on topic. Thanks.Edited by Milf_Hero on December 3, 2014 8:53PMYou name it, and ill kill it.1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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And I don't give five *** if you can't understand that a bow and a staff have ranged abilities that...*NEWS FLASH* DKs actually get bonus damage with fire! How long have you been a DK?? Are you honestly that clueless to the strengths of you class??eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Just because you choose to play your DK gimped doesn't mean the vast majority do. Even some of the wost players know to keep RS on. How can you say that DK's have no ranged ability? You didn't know that you can use the abilities in the destruction staff line? Or the bow line? Your comment makes no sense.
I said they have not ranged class ability. CLASS ABILTIY. sure they have stone fist or chains but they arnt something you spam for damage and usually have shorter ranged than most other CLASS ABILTIES
And I don't give two *** if I play gimped. if the person keeps RS on all the time hit them in the face with a melee. damn. its that simple.
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lava_Croft wrote: »
Same goes for ranged caster NB's. Just as I got the hang of the ridiculous fights against DK's, a nerf and a a fix made it a lot harder again.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »The fixes to sharpened and cycle of life, as well as the nerfs to shield-stacking have hit Sorcs harder. As I've said before, I got a 25% drop in my damage output while my main damage ability for DK (Flame Whip) was unaffected.Lava_Croft wrote: »
At least NB's can and are forced to use melee class skills and be an S&B wearing Ambush -> Surprise attack monkey. This is a lot harder if not impossible for Sorcs.The damage of the sorc is too low at the moment which ever way you spin it. Garga knows this really. He's a very competent duellist.
Both statements correct.
NBs took a hit too. Now most Sorcs and NBs are equipping S&B, cause feck it if you're not gonna do any more damage wielding a staff you might as well have more stamina sustain and damage mitigation.
Obviously we have the shining example of Mage with his Sorc but I've even seen him complain lately whereas in the past if a Sorc came to the Arena chat to complain he'd be like "Stop the QQ and l2p, Sorc is fine", albeit in more polite terms but same message.
The Ambush + Surprise/Fear/Soul Tether is extremely potent and it offers an alternative to NBs since ranged magicka casters took the shaft.Edited by Maulkin on December 3, 2014 8:52PMEU | PC | AD2 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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They have not been hit nearly as hard as sorcerers. What nerfing are you referring to specifically? And please keep in mind that fixing bugs and broken mechanics is not a nerf.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
Every faction does it and I don't fault them for doing so. It's up to ZOS to balance the classes not the players. The DKs can defend their position all they want, at the end of the day nothing is immune to the nerf bat and their time will come.Darklord_Tiberius wrote: »Spells & Ranged Attacks... May as well reflect ballista fire while we are at it! Remove melee reflect, or spells. FFS the entire EP population is a DK Vamp with bows in one hand and a Impulse spamming Destro staff in the other.
Reflecting spells and ranged, some melee, and for 6-8 seconds, is a little much.
I am surprised the entire population isn't running a DK+Vamp+Bow+Destro...
Impulse +devouring swarm +reflective scales = rinse and repeat
Snipe +Reflective Scales +Poison Arrow, poison arrow, poison arrow...
Oh, and reflecting Ultimates? Do tell...
None of our DKs are Vamps lol. Phoenix Rising just wipes the floor with yall and you make up these "builds" we are running. Love it.
To be fair here it is pretty common to see a vast majority of EP flapping their wings running in a zerg lol but hey it does look pretty funny to see
Lol. What do you mean "their time will come"? They have been directly nerfed more than any class since launch.
It's been "their time" since April
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Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
So you should only have to work if you are not a DK? Do you see how stupid your argument is yet, or are you going to double down and say something else?eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »@Armitas The fact that he was ultimately victorious is meaningless. He had to put a lot of work into that and is probably a very skilled player. But that's the point. A sorcerer has to be skilled in PvP to be successful, a nightblade also has to have some skill to be successful. A DK is a faceroll and presumably you don't agree because you play one. You are terrified that they are going to do something that might actually make you have to work at PvP. Stop pretending like DK's are this nuanced class that takes skill to play.
That he won is kind of not meaningless. Puting a lot of work into a class is what you are suppose to do to win. PvP is not meant to be a face roll.
DK is easier to play for sure. You can copy a build and look awesome against other unskilled players but as soon as you meet a skilled player things change if you don't have skill yourself. It means you have to work to win, which is how pvp should be.
Who said a DK doesn't have to work against a skilled player? Sure wasn't me.Edited by Armitas on December 3, 2014 8:58PMRetired.
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Milf_Hero✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
And I don't give five *** if you can't understand that a bow and a staff have ranged abilities that...*NEWS FLASH* DKs actually get bonus damage with fire! How long have you been a DK?? Are you honestly that clueless to the strengths of you class??eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Just because you choose to play your DK gimped doesn't mean the vast majority do. Even some of the wost players know to keep RS on. How can you say that DK's have no ranged ability? You didn't know that you can use the abilities in the destruction staff line? Or the bow line? Your comment makes no sense.
I said they have not ranged class ability. CLASS ABILTIY. sure they have stone fist or chains but they arnt something you spam for damage and usually have shorter ranged than most other CLASS ABILTIES
And I don't give two *** if I play gimped. if the person keeps RS on all the time hit them in the face with a melee. damn. its that simple.
Well it sorta makes sense. They use fire. SOOO what is your point exactly? If the DK has a better destro staff fire damage than you then im guess you should A. use your own class abilities which the DK doesn't have to even the fight. B. go in and fight the guy at close range or C. go cry about it some more. or D. find something that your class does better than any other class. hmmm. maybe you need a news flash as well to the strengths of your own class and or race.
Edited by Milf_Hero on December 3, 2014 9:01PMYou name it, and ill kill it.1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It amuses me to read all those posts of people doing maths about gdb healing the players back to full.
Have you ever heard of the disease enchant?
In most scenario, gdb must be spammed 5-6times to get back above 75% hps if the player was under 25% hps.
Have you ever heard of lethal arrow x2?
Without a purge, gdb has almost no effect.
95% of the time, if a dragonknight gets in melee combat with multiple enemies which he always does, he will get one or the other and all of your very complex maths will be wrong and unappropriated.
Nobody with more than a brain cell spams GDB. I can however get 1.2k heals from it when the requirement is there. And all that stuff about healing debuffs applies to non-DKs as well.
If anything, as a sorc with no reflect I get debuffed way more than on my DK, because keeping RS up in combat on the timer has become second nature to me. Every 4" rotation ends in RS which starts the new rotation cycle.
So let's not talk rubbish here, helps no one.
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