REFLECTIVE SCALES NEEDS NERF

Ashanne

and how are we going to know when to refresh the scales in "legolas lagfree not able to see any skills happening/enemies" cyrodiil ?

yet another useless dk skill in pvp..well.. at least the pve areas will be flooded by people leveling other classes

Night-claw

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

unsubing is just around the corner i foresee. you nerf talons and our standard then our chain, magma armor and take flight and now this QQ win again wooo wooo! i give up note to all QQ

flaming this skill l2p

Armitas

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
What aspect of RS does the team feel requires a change? It's protection from range or it's damage to other players, both, other.

Also, given that the class is a melee class and the average encounter will involve far more than 4 players I think this will result in two major changes to the pvp dynamic. I think the majority of DKs will switch to Bow/Staff and avoid melee fights while those who wish to continue to use DK damagers in melee range will switch to heavy armor to live through the numerous amount of range fire. By entering the group of enemies to melee the DK is immediately taking the focus fire from the entire enemy group which cannot be covered by RS anymore so it will be replaced with a Perma blocking build with purge. People are already crying for permablock builds to be nerfed and their cries will only become louder. Remember that we can't stealth out, we can't bolt out, we are stuck there under focus fire until we die or we create a push for the ranged dps behind us.

These changes to DK will also result in a large reduction in forward tanks and an increase in ranged dps and that will lead to regular pew pew stand offs. The DK will be pigeon holed into a ranged build without DK damagers, or a Melee build in full heavy or shielding glyphs to handle the focus fire from entering the enemy group.

I would urge you to find a solution that does not further pigeon hole DKs into certain builds and does not change the landscape of PvP. Forward tanks serve a purpose. That purpose is to keep the fight from being locked into a pew pew stand off.

Koensol

Sanct16 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Can you please delete my DK and give all its skillpoints and its Alliance Rank to my Templar instead?

No more 1vX for you sact. Too bad. We need more DK's to come here and sya that ZOS succumbed to the complainers. Always funny to read that class X thinks that if they get nerfed, its because ZOS listened to whiners, but when they get buffed, its because ZOS saw the need to boost ability X for balance's sake. Such bias all around.

Gorthax

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
What aspect of RS does the team feel requires a change? It's protection from range or it's damage to other players, both, other.

Also, given that the class is a melee class and the average encounter will involve far more than 4 players I think this will result in two major changes to the pvp dynamic. I think the majority of DKs will switch to Bow and avoid melee fights while those who wish to continue to use DK damagers and melee will switch to heavy armor to live through the numerous amount of range fire. By entering the group of enemies to melee the DK is immediately taking the focus fire from the entire enemy group which cannot be covered by RS anymore so it will be replaced with a Perma blocking build with purge. People are already crying for permablock builds to be nerfed. We can't stealth out, we can't bolt out, we are stuck there until we die or we create a push for the ranged dps behind us.

These changes to DK will also result in a large reduction in forward tanks and an increase in ranged dps and that will lead to regular pew pew stand offs. The DK will be pigeon holed into a ranged build without DK damagers, or a Melee build in full heavy or shielding glyphs to handle the focus fire from entering the enemy group.

I would urge you to find a solution that does not further pigeon hole DKs into certain builds and does not change the landscape of PvP. Forward tanks serve a purpose. That purpose is to keep the fight from being locked into a pew pew stand off.

I am sorry, but when a HUGE chunk of people in large zergs are all flapping wings, that does NOT constitute as forward tanks. This is not a bad thing. It really isnt. You can still use your ungodly shield strength to block everything anyways. You have two reflect skills. So you might have to dodge more now. big whoop.

The ability to reflect everything (as it does now anyways) infinitely really needed to be adjusted. 4 reflects per cast is very fair. At least they didnt make yours cost double everytime you use it before 4 seconds is up. It could always be worse.

Besides at the end of the day, the DK+vamp+S&B combo will still be the most effective in the game. Nothing lost on your end

rophez_ESO

Night-claw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

unsubing is just around the corner i foresee. you nerf talons and our standard then our chain, magma armor and take flight and now this QQ win again wooo wooo! i give up note to all QQ

flaming this skill l2p

It really is demoralizing to suffer nerf after nerf. Why not buff other class skills?

Koensol

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Night-claw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

unsubing is just around the corner i foresee. you nerf talons and our standard then our chain, magma armor and take flight and now this QQ win again wooo wooo! i give up note to all QQ

flaming this skill l2p

It really is demoralizing to suffer nerf after nerf. Why not buff other class skills?

I see this asked a lot. Its simple: ZOS doesn't want people to do certain stuff, hence why abilities get nerfed. Buffing other classes doesn't change what another class/ability can do. What is so hard to comprehend?

Armitas

Gorthax wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
What aspect of RS does the team feel requires a change? It's protection from range or it's damage to other players, both, other.

Also, given that the class is a melee class and the average encounter will involve far more than 4 players I think this will result in two major changes to the pvp dynamic. I think the majority of DKs will switch to Bow and avoid melee fights while those who wish to continue to use DK damagers and melee will switch to heavy armor to live through the numerous amount of range fire. By entering the group of enemies to melee the DK is immediately taking the focus fire from the entire enemy group which cannot be covered by RS anymore so it will be replaced with a Perma blocking build with purge. People are already crying for permablock builds to be nerfed. We can't stealth out, we can't bolt out, we are stuck there until we die or we create a push for the ranged dps behind us.

These changes to DK will also result in a large reduction in forward tanks and an increase in ranged dps and that will lead to regular pew pew stand offs. The DK will be pigeon holed into a ranged build without DK damagers, or a Melee build in full heavy or shielding glyphs to handle the focus fire from entering the enemy group.

I would urge you to find a solution that does not further pigeon hole DKs into certain builds and does not change the landscape of PvP. Forward tanks serve a purpose. That purpose is to keep the fight from being locked into a pew pew stand off.

I am sorry, but when a HUGE chunk of people in large zergs are all flapping wings, that does NOT constitute as forward tanks. This is not a bad thing. It really isnt. You can still use your ungodly shield strength to block everything anyways. You have two reflect skills. So you might have to dodge more now. big whoop.

The ability to reflect everything (as it does now anyways) infinitely really needed to be adjusted. 4 reflects per cast is very fair. At least they didnt make yours cost double everytime you use it before 4 seconds is up. It could always be worse.

Besides at the end of the day, the DK+vamp+S&B combo will still be the most effective in the game. Nothing lost on your end

It is the "flap flapping" that plays a huge part in allowing them to be a forward tank. You do understand what tanking is right? It is reducing and avoiding damage.

I guess you missed the duals where a skilled NB beat a DK, Vamp, Sitting Emperor multiple times in a 1v1? Same NB go 50/50 on their dk. He didn't need 30 players to beat him. Just one.

rophez_ESO

Koensol wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Night-claw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

unsubing is just around the corner i foresee. you nerf talons and our standard then our chain, magma armor and take flight and now this QQ win again wooo wooo! i give up note to all QQ

flaming this skill l2p

It really is demoralizing to suffer nerf after nerf. Why not buff other class skills?

I see this asked a lot. Its simple: ZOS doesn't want people to do certain stuff, hence why abilities get nerfed. Buffing other classes doesn't change what another class/ability can do. What is so hard to comprehend?

They clearly designed the DK as a melee class. They clearly intended for the DK to be able to use scales to offset their lack of ranged abilities. This nerf is taking place because of the countless snipers that are complaining on these forums. It's pretty much ruining their original design concept. Other classes can escape from multiple ranged attackers. The DK gets to sit there and take it, and now, has no ability to defend against multiple ranged attackers.

Orchish

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

Will you be adding range skills to the DK to compensate for this? It's hard enough trying to play a stamina based melee character in a very heavily range dominated Cyrodiil as it is. Or by "play as you want" do you mean i'll be forced to use a bow or staff ?

Koensol

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Night-claw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

unsubing is just around the corner i foresee. you nerf talons and our standard then our chain, magma armor and take flight and now this QQ win again wooo wooo! i give up note to all QQ

flaming this skill l2p

It really is demoralizing to suffer nerf after nerf. Why not buff other class skills?

I see this asked a lot. Its simple: ZOS doesn't want people to do certain stuff, hence why abilities get nerfed. Buffing other classes doesn't change what another class/ability can do. What is so hard to comprehend?

They clearly designed the DK as a melee class. They clearly intended for the DK to be able to use scales to offset their lack of ranged abilities. This nerf is taking place because of the countless snipers that are complaining on these forums. It's pretty much ruining their original design concept. Other classes can escape from multiple ranged attackers. The DK gets to sit there and take it, and now, has no ability to defend against multiple ranged attackers.

Yes, because original design decisiona are set in stone and they can not reconsider afterwards... -_-

Pyatra

Gorthax wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

4 projectiles is way too little for such an expensive spell.

P.S. I dont play dk. I play sorc.

then as a sorc you would know all about expensive spells with no pay out.......because I sure do and I play sorc

Buggy Ball Lightning... yeah

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
What aspect of RS does the team feel requires a change? It's protection from range or it's damage to other players, both, other.

Also, given that the class is a melee class and the average encounter will involve far more than 4 players I think this will result in two major changes to the pvp dynamic. I think the majority of DKs will switch to Bow and avoid melee fights while those who wish to continue to use DK damagers in melee range will switch to heavy armor to live through the numerous amount of range fire. By entering the group of enemies to melee the DK is immediately taking the focus fire from the entire enemy group which cannot be covered by RS anymore so it will be replaced with a Perma blocking build with purge. People are already crying for permablock builds to be nerfed and their cries will only become louder. Remember that we can't stealth out, we can't bolt out, we are stuck there under focus fire until we die or we create a push for the ranged dps behind us.

These changes to DK will also result in a large reduction in forward tanks and an increase in ranged dps and that will lead to regular pew pew stand offs. The DK will be pigeon holed into a ranged build without DK damagers, or a Melee build in full heavy or shielding glyphs to handle the focus fire from entering the enemy group.

I would urge you to find a solution that does not further pigeon hole DKs into certain builds and does not change the landscape of PvP. Forward tanks serve a purpose. That purpose is to keep the fight from being locked into a pew pew stand off.

Forward Tanks ≠ Heavy Armor... I think you just hit upon one of the problems. A tank SHOULD be wearing heavy armor to be a tank. DKs will be better at it, but no one should be running around in light or medium armor and tank 1vX. I hope the .6 changes fix this as it's getting silly.

rophez_ESO

Koensol wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Night-claw wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

unsubing is just around the corner i foresee. you nerf talons and our standard then our chain, magma armor and take flight and now this QQ win again wooo wooo! i give up note to all QQ

flaming this skill l2p

It really is demoralizing to suffer nerf after nerf. Why not buff other class skills?

I see this asked a lot. Its simple: ZOS doesn't want people to do certain stuff, hence why abilities get nerfed. Buffing other classes doesn't change what another class/ability can do. What is so hard to comprehend?

They clearly designed the DK as a melee class. They clearly intended for the DK to be able to use scales to offset their lack of ranged abilities. This nerf is taking place because of the countless snipers that are complaining on these forums. It's pretty much ruining their original design concept. Other classes can escape from multiple ranged attackers. The DK gets to sit there and take it, and now, has no ability to defend against multiple ranged attackers.

Yes, because original design decisiona are set in stone and they can not reconsider afterwards... -_-

Which is why I haven't unsubbed yet. I'm going to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt and assume that DKs are going to get some sort of ranged mitigation buff or ability to escape from ranged attackers like other classes have. I'm sure they wouldn't just neuter us and leave it at that. Right? Right!?

Gorthax

Armitas wrote: »

It is the "flap flapping" that plays a huge part in allowing them to be a forward tank. You do understand what tanking is right? It is reducing and avoiding damage.

I guess you missed the duals where a skilled NB beat a DK, Vamp, Sitting Emperor multiple times in a 1v1? Same NB go 50/50 on their dk. He didn't need 30 players to beat him. Just one.

No one said it is impossible, but when majority of players ROLLED DKS TO FACE ROLL then yes a skill needs to be adjusted. I do know what tanks are, but to be so condescending about it is just asinine. Flappy mc flap flap does NOT = tank. It is using a skill that was not at all fair. No down time to the skill since before 4 seconds was up it was cast again effectively making all range obsolete.

Like I said, the skill already reflects a vast majority of stuff in the game. Even stuff that makes ZERO sense. 4 projectiles is more than fair like I claimed. Hell I am willing to deal with stuff that shouldnt be reflected still getting reflected because of this.

Everyone has had to adjust to what is happening in the game. I guess it is finally time for DKs to adjust too huh? Could this be a L2P moment now that they cant reflect every single thing infinitely. I sure do think it is ^_^ There was a problem with sorcs using bolt escape/streak to get out of combat, we got hit harder than DKs did with their reflective scales. Just be happy ZoS decided to be generous. Like I said, it could always be worse.

To be honest, I dont think this will change much anyways. You will still be damn good at doing what you do. What more do you want?

Armitas

Pyatra wrote: »

Forward Tanks ≠ Heavy Armor... I think you just hit upon one of the problems. A tank SHOULD be wearing heavy armor to be a tank. DKs will be better at it, but no one should be running around in light or medium armor and tank 1vX. I hope the .6 changes fix this as it's getting silly.

In the case of the DK, after the changes there is only a ranged build with no DK damagers OR a heavy armor (or shielding glyph) build with low damage and sustainability in large group pvp. This pigeon holes the DK into A. Tanking with low dps and sustainability if they want to use class damagers or B. Ranged with dps but no class damagers.

It would be very awkward to force a class into such a strict build if they want to use their own class skills effectively.

Gorthax

Armitas wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

Forward Tanks ≠ Heavy Armor... I think you just hit upon one of the problems. A tank SHOULD be wearing heavy armor to be a tank. DKs will be better at it, but no one should be running around in light or medium armor and tank 1vX. I hope the .6 changes fix this as it's getting silly.

In the case of the DK, after the changes there is only a ranged build with no DK damagers OR a heavy armor (or shielding glyph) build with low damage and sustainability in large group pvp. This pigeon holes the DK into A. Tanking with low dps and sustainability if they want to use class damagers or B. Ranged with dps but no class damagers.

It would be very awkward to force a class into such a strict build if they want to use their own class skills effectively.

If you are going to block everything and laugh at people trying to damage you then why should you have amazing dps as well? I never understood that concept. There HAS to be a trade off. No one should ever have both.

Not being rude here, seriously enlighten me to your thought process of this?

Armitas

Gorthax wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

It is the "flap flapping" that plays a huge part in allowing them to be a forward tank. You do understand what tanking is right? It is reducing and avoiding damage.

I guess you missed the duals where a skilled NB beat a DK, Vamp, Sitting Emperor multiple times in a 1v1? Same NB go 50/50 on their dk. He didn't need 30 players to beat him. Just one.

No one said it is impossible, but when majority of players ROLLED DKS TO FACE ROLL then yes a skill needs to be adjusted. I do know what tanks are, but to be so condescending about it is just asinine. Flappy mc flap flap does NOT = tank. It is using a skill that was not at all fair. No down time to the skill since before 4 seconds was up it was cast again effectively making all range obsolete.

Like I said, the skill already reflects a vast majority of stuff in the game. Even stuff that makes ZERO sense. 4 projectiles is more than fair like I claimed. Hell I am willing to deal with stuff that shouldnt be reflected still getting reflected because of this.

Everyone has had to adjust to what is happening in the game. I guess it is finally time for DKs to adjust too huh? Could this be a L2P moment now that they cant reflect every single thing infinitely. I sure do think it is ^_^ There was a problem with sorcs using bolt escape/streak to get out of combat, we got hit harder than DKs did with their reflective scales. Just be happy ZoS decided to be generous. Like I said, it could always be worse.

To be honest, I dont think this will change much anyways. You will still be damn good at doing what you do. What more do you want?

"Majority rolled DK to face roll"...Source?

RS is a major aspect of tanking. Why do you think there is also a reflect in the s/b line???? Maybe, just maybe because avoiding ranged damage is apart of being a tank.

We get it, it should reflect meteor. Fix that no DK will care at the loss of meteor reflect.

Yeah cause DK's have never had to adjust, ever, since the start of the game. Thankfully we have never been in constant adjustment since release.

Armitas

Gorthax wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

Forward Tanks ≠ Heavy Armor... I think you just hit upon one of the problems. A tank SHOULD be wearing heavy armor to be a tank. DKs will be better at it, but no one should be running around in light or medium armor and tank 1vX. I hope the .6 changes fix this as it's getting silly.

In the case of the DK, after the changes there is only a ranged build with no DK damagers OR a heavy armor (or shielding glyph) build with low damage and sustainability in large group pvp. This pigeon holes the DK into A. Tanking with low dps and sustainability if they want to use class damagers or B. Ranged with dps but no class damagers.

It would be very awkward to force a class into such a strict build if they want to use their own class skills effectively.

If you are going to block everything and laugh at people trying to damage you then why should you have amazing dps as well? I never understood that concept. There HAS to be a trade off. No one should ever have both.

Not being rude here, seriously enlighten me to your thought process of this?

I'm sorry if a DK laughed at you but you don't need to be a DK to use block.

Who said I should have amazing dps beside you?

Epsilon_Echo

Nerf as you please. I've stopped caring about being punched in the gut over and over again with them. I have come to take your fear and hatred as a compliment. When you're finished nerfing my main char into the ground, and I still am the bane of entire zergs you will have nothing left to blame.

Go ahead, clip my wings, take talons, take whip, it makes no difference. Just remember.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MiqPQ1dVg4

Lava_Croft

Page 3:

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Make Reflective Scales behave like Harness Magicka, so it will only reflect a set number of projectiles before wearing off.

Page 10:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

I'm satisfied, but also slightly suspicious about the number of 4 reflected projectiles. I feel it should be more, like 6. Time will tell.

Now it's time to sit back and watch the Dragon Knights reply.

Etaniel

Please remind me, when did people start complaining about scales? After 1.5 right? Oh, isn't that by any chance the patch that made snipe ridiculous? oh yeaaaaah snipe.

People are complaining because dks have a better (much better) survival chance against the idiocy that has become snipe. And i can't blame them. I have to spam my scales every 4 seconds otherwise i get 100 heal debuffed and wrecked in 2 seconds.

The solution to this is to nerf the [snip] snipe !
Before snipe was op, i only casted my scales when i saw a sorc casting crystal shards at me for example. Definitely not every 4 seconds. I actually had some setups where i didn't use scales at all. Now, scales is a must have in any dk's build, just to counter the overwhelming amount of snipers in cyrodil.

Just to be clear though, i don't mind archers killing me in 1 sec when they are Ganking me in open field. And it was possible before 1.5 too, so nerfing snipe is totally possible.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

eventide03b14a_ESO

Panda244 wrote: »

If they nerf reflect, they need to nerf Snipe. That's not a question or a suggestion it's a fact. DKs are suppose to be the 'tanks' of ESO and RS is absolutely fine the way it is. I'll support a nerf similar to BE but if they make it so you can't spam reflect when theres eight people with bows spamming lethal arrow at you then I'm sadly going to retire my DK. I'd be happy if they just made reflect ABSORB the projectile to, instead of reflecting it back... And they need to change it so overload light attacks and meteor can still get through, reflecting ultimates is just plain idiotic.

Why should DKs be the only class that get's a free pass on Snipe? Especially when they have an ability like GDB. I swear the thought of having a challenge is something that DKs are just terrified of. Anytime they are presented with anything that isn't a faceroll they complain that they have it so rough.

Armitas

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Which is why I haven't unsubbed yet. I'm going to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt and assume that DKs are going to get some sort of ranged mitigation buff or ability to escape from ranged attackers like other classes have. I'm sure they wouldn't just neuter us and leave it at that. Right? Right!?

When FC's were suddenly removed without warning Brian said that pvp is like Jenga where you have to pull one block to see what comes. I fear that this practice will here too.

Armitas

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

If they nerf reflect, they need to nerf Snipe. That's not a question or a suggestion it's a fact. DKs are suppose to be the 'tanks' of ESO and RS is absolutely fine the way it is. I'll support a nerf similar to BE but if they make it so you can't spam reflect when theres eight people with bows spamming lethal arrow at you then I'm sadly going to retire my DK. I'd be happy if they just made reflect ABSORB the projectile to, instead of reflecting it back... And they need to change it so overload light attacks and meteor can still get through, reflecting ultimates is just plain idiotic.

Why should DKs be the only class that get's a free pass on Snipe? Especially when they have an ability like GDB. I swear the thought of having a challenge is something that DKs are just terrified of. Anytime they are presented with anything that isn't a faceroll they complain that they have it so rough.

Because we are in the middle of the zerg due to our melee class skills getting focus fired by everyone in the zerg. Meanwhile everyone else is pew pewing in relative safety behind us. We are taking the focus fire so that you can do what you do. Just as a pve tank does in pve.

pmn100b16_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

It is the "flap flapping" that plays a huge part in allowing them to be a forward tank. You do understand what tanking is right? It is reducing and avoiding damage.

I guess you missed the duals where a skilled NB beat a DK, Vamp, Sitting Emperor multiple times in a 1v1? Same NB go 50/50 on their dk. He didn't need 30 players to beat him. Just one.

No one said it is impossible, but when majority of players ROLLED DKS TO FACE ROLL then yes a skill needs to be adjusted. I do know what tanks are, but to be so condescending about it is just asinine. Flappy mc flap flap does NOT = tank. It is using a skill that was not at all fair. No down time to the skill since before 4 seconds was up it was cast again effectively making all range obsolete.

Like I said, the skill already reflects a vast majority of stuff in the game. Even stuff that makes ZERO sense. 4 projectiles is more than fair like I claimed. Hell I am willing to deal with stuff that shouldnt be reflected still getting reflected because of this.

Everyone has had to adjust to what is happening in the game. I guess it is finally time for DKs to adjust too huh? Could this be a L2P moment now that they cant reflect every single thing infinitely. I sure do think it is ^_^ There was a problem with sorcs using bolt escape/streak to get out of combat, we got hit harder than DKs did with their reflective scales. Just be happy ZoS decided to be generous. Like I said, it could always be worse.

To be honest, I dont think this will change much anyways. You will still be damn good at doing what you do. What more do you want?

"Majority rolled DK to face roll"...Source?

RS is a major aspect of tanking. Why do you think there is also a reflect in the s/b line???? Maybe, just maybe because avoiding ranged damage is apart of being a tank.

We get it, it should reflect meteor. Fix that no DK will care at the loss of meteor reflect.

Yeah cause DK's have never had to adjust, ever, since the start of the game. Thankfully we have never been in constant adjustment since release.

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Page 3:

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Make Reflective Scales behave like Harness Magicka, so it will only reflect a set number of projectiles before wearing off.

Page 10:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

I'm satisfied, but also slightly suspicious about the number of 4 reflected projectiles. I feel it should be more, like 6. Time will tell.

Now it's time to sit back and watch the Dragon Knights reply.

I think maybe because it means 1v1 balance will not be effected. You can't cast more than once a second, so you'd still spam RS once every 4 secs like now. Unless you ani cancel, maybe those light attacks weaved in may deplete the RS quicker.

Soulac

Gargragrond

In 1v1 this hardly makes a difference - due to high cost and short duration, usually it's already more cost effective to use the defensive posture or simply heal+attack for the same effect with less resources. However, in normal pvp against infinite number of monkeys with typewriters spamming snipe, it will make the game less enjoyable, and dk's already die more than the other classes (based on stats available to me).

But as experience has taught us, any change in some skill will result it being bugged for a few weeks, so I'm interested to see in what way they manage to break it this time .

Gorthax

Armitas wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Pyatra wrote: »

Forward Tanks ≠ Heavy Armor... I think you just hit upon one of the problems. A tank SHOULD be wearing heavy armor to be a tank. DKs will be better at it, but no one should be running around in light or medium armor and tank 1vX. I hope the .6 changes fix this as it's getting silly.

In the case of the DK, after the changes there is only a ranged build with no DK damagers OR a heavy armor (or shielding glyph) build with low damage and sustainability in large group pvp. This pigeon holes the DK into A. Tanking with low dps and sustainability if they want to use class damagers or B. Ranged with dps but no class damagers.

It would be very awkward to force a class into such a strict build if they want to use their own class skills effectively.

If you are going to block everything and laugh at people trying to damage you then why should you have amazing dps as well? I never understood that concept. There HAS to be a trade off. No one should ever have both.

Not being rude here, seriously enlighten me to your thought process of this?

I'm sorry if a DK laughed at you but you don't need to be a DK to use block.

Who said I should have amazing dps beside you?

you said it "This pigeon holes the DK into A. Tanking with low dps and sustainability if they want to use class damagers or B. Ranged with dps but no class damagers."

tanking with low dps. As a tank it is the job to, you know, tank. Not kill. If you want to play as a tank there is a trade off. As for the majority rolled DK....go to cyrodil and watch all the flapping burning talons whipping you going on.... then come back here and tell me I am wrong.

This is from MY experience and what I(cant capitalize that enough lol) see in cyrodil everyday. When a zerg of DK come running out of a keep you are trying to take ALL flapping wings holding shields, it really gives off the impression that this is what it has come down to. This happens more often than not. Especially since people say DK have no ranged skills. But who needs ranged when you have gap closers? There is nothing more intimidating then being in close range of a DK.

yes I know this came about from the bow buffs (i dont agree with those either) and maybe 1.6 will address this and make the RS adjustment not so terrible like you dks seem to think it will be

Sure you dont have ranged skills (go bow :P ) but what your S&B give you is better since up close a DK is a forced to be reckoned with ^_^

I do however agree that 4 might be to low. But like Lava_croft said, 6 is about right.

Sanct16

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Page 3:

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Make Reflective Scales behave like Harness Magicka, so it will only reflect a set number of projectiles before wearing off.

Page 10:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi all, just popping in to let you know that we do have plans to adjust Reflective Scales in Update 6. Currently, you can reflect an infinite number of projectiles per cast; we will be setting a maximum number of projectiles that the ability can reflect per cast, the maximum being four. We look forward to hearing your feedback on this once it's available to test on the PTS.

I'm satisfied, but also slightly suspicious about the number of 4 reflected projectiles. I feel it should be more, like 6. Time will tell.

Now it's time to sit back and watch the Dragon Knights reply.

Rerolling to other classes, most likely NB I guess.

Armitas

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

Except you're not tanking are you. If you were actually tanking you'd be wearing heavy armour, with a healer at your side and dps near by to take down the enemies whilst you try to maintain their attention. You'd also be dealing very little damage yourself.

What you're in fact doing is running into groups of 10+ people solo, wearing light armour, negating the full damage of probably half the player base whilst dealing massive damage to everyone in melee range.

Maybe this change will actually force some proper tank builds out into Cyrodiil.

Tanking is avoiding/reducing damage, holding aggro, and keeping it off the dps. It has nothing to do with heavy armor specifically. Heavy armor is not about mitigation, it's about block sustainability. You don't need heavy armor to tank, you need block sustainability to tank and heavy armor is one way to provide that.

What is the single target dps and aoe dps of these "massive damage" DK's running against groups of 10 people? Could that dps perhaps be reflected attacks from people who still refuse to stop shooting when wings go up?