The good thing about it is that you only have to do it once. Once you finish any character you make will be auto progressed once it hits 50.

I've always liked alts. I just don't have to time or patience to bother with them. This will change that.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

I'll explain it to you. You are apparently the sole player that likes Cadwell's gold and cares about where your characters are at in it and likes leveling all of your characters to VR12 separately. Everybody else hates it, so they are changing it.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

I'm not sure I follow what you think "will be taken away from [you]". If it's the fact that your no longer VR14 but instead Champion Rating X, you haven't "lost" anything. Your going to get full credit for your play so far for all your characters. And can then spend points for all your characters separately. In order to lose something you must get NOTHING in return. This is not the case. I'm sorry you may not like the change, but as mentioned for the vast majority this will be substantially better.

Double post

Sindala wrote: »

So this game is going to become like EVE? Is that how i'm reading it?

Great game but unless you have been here since the get go you will always be fodder for the vets with no way to equal them?
Like EVE is set up now where new players can join the game but they will NEVER be at the same level as those Vets. Thus there is 2 games in EVE, one for vets and one for everyone else.

We need ACTUAL facts from Devs about stuff like this not just 3rd party replies, good post but it should not be a players job to report stuff being implemented into the game.
That's just a cheap ass shot from Zeni to see how it will be received then if its bad they step in and say 'actually that's not how its going to happen, we never said that'.

School yard stuff Zeni. Do you think we are all 15 years old and have never seen this sort of stuff before??

Scratch all other posts, this guy totally nailed it.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

This is just a mindset that has been derived I would say more commonly in MMO's. I use to play mmo's that level cap took extremely long to reach, in those games while you did try to lvl, it was more of a passive then "chasing" the lvls. You were able to become strong enough to compete. What they are adding wont get rid of your progress, it will add too. I would suggest to not think of it as "I need to get all of this asap" and more " as I play I will get stronger" As the difference you will get in stats wont be drastic enough after a while to take precident over good distribution and skill.

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

At the guild summit, I believe I read in the recap that they aren't getting rid of Cadwell gold/silver, One of their plans is to allow players to choose between which alliance they can go to after finishing their own (not sure if you can jump between all the alliances) When the champion system is first released it wont get rid of veteran ranks right away, but that is what they hope to do down the road.

Nihil wrote: »

Spectrasoul wrote: »

Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Erm?? except you don't earn XP in the VR levels as I understand it so i'd love to know how they are tracking it

Cogo wrote: »

Greatfellow wrote: »

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

Because the more complex and complicated it is, the less people will see that it is just a death grasp to try and hold onto a meager straw horse of an end game idea.

I hate keep coming off negative, I think that the New areas will be awesome, but not if you absolutely have to be in a four man freakin group just to walk around in it. New level system is welcomed, for this big of an overhaul we need more definition of what's going to happen, which we have gotten in small parts, up until lately.

This will either make or break the game for many many people, so guys I beg, I plead, I pray you get it right at launch, cause if it's buggy, twitchy, exploitable, lagging, it's not gonna go well.

You know, regarding that "if you absolutely have to be in a four man group just to walk around in it" comment is what catches me: I really wish they'd make individual instances of those areas, i.e., instances of those areas populated with baddies that a single excellent player could challenge. Just give a lot less exp and loot, I'm good with that.

@audigy
(I included Audigy since he asked for the same thing )

You mean like the new Solo PvE zone, Wrothgar? It will work like Hollow city, but as a huge zone, almost compared to Cyro. Including several quest lines, like the MAIN story quest line, with phasing based on your choices that effects YOUR zone.

Wrothgar is a new zone, which is different from:
- Murkmire Group Adventure Zone
Read group content, like Graglorn - quests, story line, new events, abillities, trade skills, dungeons and "raids". Possible new global skills line as well.
- Imperial City Zone
PvE raid encounters in a PvP environment. The "mobs" will not just be the NPC creatures but PvP players who wants to MURDER you!
Also possible new PvP skills and PvP ONLY alliance buffs. (No more PvE free buffs)
Awesome!

Add the justice system on top of that, which effects all players in all of Tamriel.
Plenty of "solo" stuffs to do!

Please note the basic of ESO, from Zenimax (not me)

The plan is to make sure we introduce a large variety of activities and types of content in the future. Players shouldn’t expect every new zone we release to be an Adventure Zone at all.

ESO is adding all kinds of content on a regular bases.
The core feature of ESO is to never end. Either with Tamriel or character progression.


Solo PvE Zone: Wrothgar

• Shared by all 3 alliances. In it up north between High Rock and Skyrim. Originally given to the Orcs when they joined Daggerfall
• Orc’s ancestral capital, Orsinium, is in this province in the Black Mountain area.
• The followers of the Code of Malacath are distrustful of the Orc King and his Daggerfall allies as the Bretons and Redguards destroyed Orsinium a while back. Simultaneously, the Orc Sing is sympathic a sect of another cult that wants to destroy the Malacath worshippers.
• You are asked to help to rebuild Orsinium and determine the future of the Orcs there
• Female giant creature added

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bqivTnEteG0

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130275/dragonstar-arena-champion-justice-systems-and-solo-pve-zone-wrothgar

Source:
http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/

You are right about the zone but I don't trust ZO in regards of making a whole zone viable. They had so many chances with Craglorn or the old VRs, they didn't manage.

Every zone had 1 spot where you could grind xp to reach massive amount of Ranks in a short time - someone who does quests like a non grinder can never keep up with that.

They either need to add a xp cap which you can reach every day like WS has or they must make the Champion System progress based on quests done, lore books read etc. and not on xp.

This look immense!

PLEASE ZENIMAX - Let pvp and pve players gain equal amounts of champion point exp otherwise you will kill pvp forever!

I have only one question - are we there yet, are we there yet, are we there yet?

Also - are we there yet?

Also - provisioning changes - are we there yet?

Are we there yet?

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Rewarding time played vs skill

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Rewarding time played vs skill is a fatal design flaw that will kill the longevity for the game in regards to newer players.

What will happen with the champion system is only the current players will continue playing a ridiculous grind and all new players the come after will quickly realize there's no point in trying to catch up. This is what happened to WoW and the way they corrected the issue was each expansion dumbs the game down even more. Nov 17th will see the death of wow with the game becoming fully moron proof and accessible by anyone at any age.

ZOS think deeper into this idea....why would a new player want to play your game or take part in PvP with players leagues above them in stats/gear

Actually the whole point of the champion system is to balance that problem.
1. There are the hardcore players that devote all their time to the game and feel they should be rewarded for such. The problem is this creates a bigger and bigger gap between the hardcore player and the casual player (vertical progression if you will).
3. The casual player hates the fact they are penalised because they have a life to lead, cant keep up and simply get dominated by hardcore players that rely on greater power rather than greater skill (horizontal progression if you will).

These two camps are diametrically opposed. The solution is to use a tangent curve instead of linear progression.
Y axes = XP (just scale up or down as required)
X axes = Level (angle really....but you can scale level as you like)
It will take an infiite amount of time to hit level 90 allowing people with less time to get to level 85 quickly. There wont be much of a difference between a level 85 and level 90 player (5%). No one can hit 90 anyway.

As you can see progression is reasonably linear through the lower levels (vertical progression). As you reach higher level the curve gets much steeper and requires much more XP to progress (horizontal progression). This stops the runaway condition of vertical progression. This principle can be applied to anything.

So basically the lower level is when you are training and developing your toon (power). As you approach max level that power stabilises and your skills diversify (skill).

This new system will end this game. I'm sorry but it will. I find it hard to explain what I see. People are blinded by endless progression and current players are excited for more stuff to do but my point goes unanswered....

If the champion system has been out a few months now...and I just joined the game...it wouldn't take long for me to realize I can never compete with the top. This is a huge problem. Of course kids who have no life and play 12 hrs+ per day deserve to have a little edge. But this edge WilL be leaps and bounds.

Seriously it wont. As the example system above terminates at level 90 for everyone.
The min/maxers will spend an eternity trying to get to level 90.
Everyone else would hit 85 or so reasonably quickly and still give those multi year veterans a good fight.
See the difference compared to WOW or any other game where they raise the level cap every few months ?
There is no need to raise the level cap ever with this system.
It never needs to be raised above 90 because you would need to play for eternity to get there.

Dont confuse lots of XP with lots of level.

In addition to the below, I understand the 'multiply everything by 10' factor to make things more visible, but, aside from rounding down, % increases/decreases with mathematically have the exact same effect.

Instead of the boss w/8000 hp, he'll now how 80k hp. But you'll also hit 10 times harder - so will he.

The only thing that will truly go up by a factor of 10 is the complaining.

People ***** about 1000 pt shields now, just wait until they see a 10,000 pt shield. Though mathematically the same, the perception will not be.

Expect 10x more trolls, 10x more nerf requests. (And 10x more polls...Yeah!)

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

Just mentioning something regarding the "1 hour per champion point" thing: As far as I remember, at release the official thing was "120 hours until lvl 50".

This. Anticipated timeframes vs actual end up being quite different. It's why there were VR12's days after launch.

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

If you play less, the stupid "rested exp" crap from Wow will kick in.

Will that really make up for it? That just rips off people who play a lot and work harder.

I am in the middle of hardcore and casual...

They're doing this primarily to keep people from fading away. There is already a large gap between those that play more or certain content more. To those that do not play as often, everytime they log in, this discrepancy gets larger and larger.

Have it go on long enough, and people will feel like they can never catch up. That's what this is supposed to help with.

You want the casual player base to stay. They help fund development and are a larger portion of the player base than many would like to give them credit for.

Plus, as far as 'ripping off' the player that plays a lot and works harder, it's not XP Battle Leveling. It will increase their gain, not triple it.

I have a questing partner that doesn't get to play as often. I already don't like that I keep getting further and further from his character level as it is. I realize once caps are hit, it kind of remedies itself, but it's the overall point.

People have previously asked for the option to enable XP downscaling, or the option to outright turn it off for a while to prevent such differences. This is the opposite method with the same effect.

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

@Wolfenbelle‌, you're not losing anything. Your current progress will be factored into the new system. I suspect you'll start with a certain number of champion points based on where your character already is.

The Cadwell's doesn't go away in the sense that you lose progress. The linear questline and area restrictions will be what dissolve. You will no longer be forced to only go one route.

CP will fundamentally change the game. That's kind of the point.

Nihil wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

Nihil wrote: »

Spectrasoul wrote: »

Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Erm?? except you don't earn XP in the VR levels as I understand it so i'd love to know how they are tracking it

You have always earned exp in VR, as is noticable primarily through the lvling of skills ( you use to be able to lvl skills by opening chests and just by exploring). Also with update 1.5 they are getting rid of VR points and replacing it with EXP (stage 2 of the conversion)

Supposed to be averaged out so you get neither penalized or rewarded for player only one character or playing/not playing alts.

You still get XP's, you just don't see the visible counter after VR1.

Spangla wrote: »

This look immense!

PLEASE ZENIMAX - Let pvp and pve players gain equal amounts of champion point exp otherwise you will kill pvp forever!

The problem arises with the minority who exploit PvP xp gain.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

25,200 hours of progression?

I bet that some people will attempt to do them all in two months time, tops, only to complain afterwards that there's not enough content.

Just kidding. Great post, thank you!

At 25,200 hours of content, it would take 12 years to get through all of that, assuming this game was a full time job (40 hrs a week, 50 weeks a year).

What I do see coming out as a serious complaint is that the game is now "just a grinder," since you have to put more time \ effort into maxing out your character than most people put into a career. We'll see though, I personally think we should welcome our new character progression overlords.

I am not sure whether or not anyone is actually listening to the Guild Summit recordings but from listening to them I can tell that many of the comments here are from people who have not. There are many things I could try to clarify but I believe that many people have tried just that and from reading them I understand what they are trying to say. What I will say is that from what I have heard, the Veteran system will still be here while the Champion system is being implemented. To strip away the Veteran system in one update would have a drastic effect on gameplay that they have decided to replace it over time as the Champion system is solidifying itself among the players. They also commented that they could put many things in place of the Veteran system but as of yet have not come to a decision on what that may be. I think that if any one has any doubts as to how this system is gonna to play out they might want to listen to the records of the Guild Summit and get a little understanding as to what they are unclear of.