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General Confusion about Veteran Rank and Champion System.

deathmasterl_ESO
deathmasterl_ESO
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Figured I would post this in the PTS Forum instead of the General Forums as it seems it would apply here more.

Basically could anyone seem to enlighten me to the changes they're planning on doing?
  • How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?
  • What happen's to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?
  • What happen's to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?
  • Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?
  • Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

Basically that's the quick and simple list of what I'm confused about seeing as people keep confusing things about what has been said.

Would help if a Dev were to post and maybe help explain it better.
Saevus Messor Imperial Dragonknight Vr14 Aldmeri Dominion
Talia Spiritus Imperial Nightblade Lv17 Aldmeri Dominion
Naomi Athael Altmer Sorcerer Lv8 Aldmeri Dominion
Nyanta Raimanni Khajiit Templar Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
Sina Nightwind Bosmer Dragonknight Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
Leader of the 1st Infiltration and Scouting Division
Master Weapon and Armor Crafter
  • madangrypally
    madangrypally
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    I would not wait to level. Level now because the Champion system is not going to be released until at least patch 1.4. If you consider the 4-6 weeks between patches then expect it around. September-October.

    It may even get pushed back to 1.5 which means late October-November time frame.
  • Asgari
    Asgari
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    There hasn't been enough information released on this yet. Take the 3 days it takes to reach v12 and be done with it. When the time comes we will all transition into whatever it is they have planned.
    Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
    Princess Asgari | Sorc
    Asgari | NB
    -Asgari | Stamplar
    Ariana Kishi | DK | True Liberator of Haderus
    Banner Down!
    No Mercy
    Youtube: Asgari
  • deathmasterl_ESO
    deathmasterl_ESO
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    Ah okay so it's not suppose to come out for awhile. Friend told me it was coming the next update that helps clear some things up. Alright well either way I'll save some of these questions for when the actual change comes out and gets released because either way they're still good questions.

    Btw thanks for replying Asgari and Mad
    Saevus Messor Imperial Dragonknight Vr14 Aldmeri Dominion
    Talia Spiritus Imperial Nightblade Lv17 Aldmeri Dominion
    Naomi Athael Altmer Sorcerer Lv8 Aldmeri Dominion
    Nyanta Raimanni Khajiit Templar Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
    Sina Nightwind Bosmer Dragonknight Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
    Leader of the 1st Infiltration and Scouting Division
    Master Weapon and Armor Crafter
  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    I put this up in another thread but I'll post it here too to help you.

    Quakecon video Starting at 37:28, Paul Sage begins talking about the changes from VR to CP (Champion Points). He said the new system will come in 4 phases. If you look HERE it says 3 phases, so they've changed even since July 8th. Here it is in a nuttshell:

    Phase 1: Reduce VR difficulty more in line with 1-50 progression [Completed].

    Phase 2: Removal of VP to plain old XP, but still retain Veteran Ranks. Also rested XP with this Phase [possibly patch 1.3* here in a week or 2].

    Phase 3: Champion System introduction [likely 1-2 months away].

    Phase 4: Introducing new Gear, called it Seasons with each previous Season being purchasable [likely 3+ months away and continual].

    * = Not listed in PTS 1.3.1 patch notes here.
    Shadow is where the truth lies.
    Legerdemain - The path to Thievery
  • pinstripesc
    pinstripesc
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    Veteran ranks aren't going anywhere, it's only the veteran rank POINTS that are being changed to regular experience points to be more in line with the method of leveling from 1-50.

    You will still have all the skill points you earned through veteran, as the method of obtaining skill points is different from how you will gain Champion points - Champion points are given out every X number of experience points gained.

    Veteran levels, skill points, and Champion points will all coexist. The Champion system is just being added to provide a way for you to improve your character as you rank up through vet levels (as opposed to now where you really don't see anything changing in front of you besides your gear).

    What is unclear is if gaining veteran points now if you're V12 already will at all benefit you once the system swaps over and XP is converted into Champion points.
    Edited by pinstripesc on July 26, 2014 12:08AM
  • bluesodafizz
    bluesodafizz
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    Wow, I am just so confused about the champion point thing...

    Also, if they are changing veteran points to regular xp does that mean that people will be able to farm trash mobs again to gain levels? Like vet levels? Wow...just...so...confused...
  • Carnagan
    Carnagan
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    The only recently announced the very basics of the4 Champion system. We'll know more as they start to describe it in depth as it gets closer to release.
    "You dream of the Moon and a man who is less than a man."
    Proud explorer of Tamriel since 1996
  • Sunrock
    Sunrock
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    DeLindsay wrote: »

    Phase 4: Introducing new Gear, called it Seasons with each previous Season being purchasable [likely 3+ months away and continual].

    This I think is crap. Really really bad IMO. Ok if we where at "season 3" you could buy season 1 gear to catch up a bit. But being able to buy season 2 gear is too mush "free loot", in lack of a better expression.

    The argue that "want to keep up with my friends" that play more then me. Is also BS. You play regurally with this who are online about as mush as you and during the same time of the day. You can be my best friend IRL and I would still not group with you if you did not play as mush as I do. So there is no need for you to try to keep up with me with gear, because even if you had the best gear we would still not be in the same group.

    Sorry for the off topic.
    Edited by Sunrock on July 28, 2014 11:51PM
  • Kiljaz
    Kiljaz
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    Champion system is being implemented to give use character advancement. Veteran Ranks aren't going anywhere. VRs lack character progression, there are no skill points for ranking up btw.
  • Murmeltier
    Murmeltier
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    If the VR Ranks stays Ingame, how about the Armor/Weapons you can wear? Actual you can wear Equip for different VR Ranks (1-12). I am not sure but wasn`t there the Idea to reduce the Armor/Weapons to max Level 50, so the only Difference between a new Level 50 Player and a VR 12 is the Championsystem?

    If not, the new Player needs to reach VR 12, before he can group or play in the "high" Content/PvP because he need the highest VR 12 Equip to do this. So a VR 12 Rank is a must have and every Player have to do this, if they like or not?

    I am only curious, maybe someone knows some Details about this.
    Edited by Murmeltier on July 29, 2014 11:08AM
  • Qyrk
    Qyrk
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    @ZOS_MariaAliprando‌

    Thank you. Can I ask a question? When this gets implemented, does it mean that accounts with say, four v14 characters will initially have more champion points that can be allocated to one main character (in the very beginning this gets added) than someone with only one max character, correct?

    Just wanted to clarify this, but if you don't have any details now, thats fine. Looking forward on more details in the future for :
    "Earned veteran ranks will convert into champion XP, but there will be a maximum on the amount that will be allowed to convert"

    Thanks!
    Edited by Qyrk on October 3, 2014 11:29PM
  • adean27
    adean27
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    @Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

    They are tracking all XP that is gained.
    Shindig
    Director
    United Gaming Initiative
    www.unitedgaminginitiative.com
  • Qyrk
    Qyrk
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    @adean27‌

    So they are currently tracking it even after you reach v14? The reason I ask is, 4 V14 characters will have more exp than say 1 V14 character. But if you say that they are now tracking all XP gained even if you're at max level, then you're right. I just wanted some clarification with this.
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    Qyrk wrote: »
    @adean27‌

    So they are currently tracking it even after you reach v14? The reason I ask is, 4 V14 characters will have more exp than say 1 V14 character. But if you say that they are now tracking all XP gained even if you're at max level, then you're right. I just wanted some clarification with this.

    that is why it is wise to wait for answers directly from a developer.


  • adean27
    adean27
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    @Qyrk Yes, they are tracking it even after VR 14. Every piece of XP you get, is being logged. This came directly from Maria's mouth on Wednesday. I even asked her the same question that you did for clarification purposes, and she reiterated it.
    Shindig
    Director
    United Gaming Initiative
    www.unitedgaminginitiative.com
  • DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs
    Figured I would post this in the PTS Forum instead of the General Forums as it seems it would apply here more.

    Basically could anyone seem to enlighten me to the changes they're planning on doing?
    • How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?
    • What happen's to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?
    • What happen's to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?
    • Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?
    • Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

    Basically that's the quick and simple list of what I'm confused about seeing as people keep confusing things about what has been said.

    Would help if a Dev were to post and maybe help explain it better.

    i for one dnt care anymore, i feel you will simply break more things than you fix.
    Good Day Sir!
  • Qyrk
    Qyrk
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    @adean27‌

    Thanks! I could kiss you right now
  • deathmasterl_ESO
    deathmasterl_ESO
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    Thank you Maria, to be honest I wasn't really expecting a reply from a Dev on this lol, especially since I posted this so long ago. But yes, that basically answers everything myself and every other person I know has been wondering so again thank you.

    And on that note the Champion System is looking great can't wait for it now.
    Saevus Messor Imperial Dragonknight Vr14 Aldmeri Dominion
    Talia Spiritus Imperial Nightblade Lv17 Aldmeri Dominion
    Naomi Athael Altmer Sorcerer Lv8 Aldmeri Dominion
    Nyanta Raimanni Khajiit Templar Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
    Sina Nightwind Bosmer Dragonknight Lv4 Aldmeri Dominion
    Leader of the 1st Infiltration and Scouting Division
    Master Weapon and Armor Crafter
  • fromtesonlineb16_ESO
    fromtesonlineb16_ESO
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    When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.
    In before the "casuals getting it on a silver platter" crassness starts. This is fine for me, but I foresee much QQ from the 24/7 galleries.
    Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on October 4, 2014 6:09AM
  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

    We are hard at work on it and I’m here to answer a few of your questions. Most of these questions were also asked during our Guild Round Table in the last two days.

    How will the current system change when the Champion System gets introduced?

    The Champion System will introduce new past lvl 50 progression for your account where previously there was only an increase in Veteran Ranks and Attributes.

    HI Maria!

    Thanks for this! A dev posting? Was not expected or required but extremely welcome! Eve Online can't say they are the only ones who does that anymore! ;-)

    I have a few questions.

    - Is there any player level higher then 50?
    Are Vet rank in fact a level (51), or a "layer" that gives 10 attributes in each attribute, raise soft caps and let you wear Vet rank X gear?

    The help section on the ESO site, states every Vet rank is level 50.
    Which for me, secures balance and does not trivilize content.

    My testing shows a Vet 1 and Vet 12 are level 50, but with attribute and cap increase. As well as getting correct rank to use specific gear.
    Is this correct?
    What happens to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?

    In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.

    When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.

    This may seam like an odd question, since players commonly ask for free things.
    - What is the reason behind giving even more skill points to Vet rank players?

    The Vet content gives more then enough + Cyrodiil and I have only a few from lower Craglorn.

    Paul Sage stated that when you release new content, like a zone as Craglorn, you also include quest lines with skill points as well as skyshards.

    What is the base to give even more skill points?
    Is there content coming with no added skill points to not "flood" the game with skill points? Like The Justice system, with the 2 new skill lines, but no added skill points?
    That would make sense :smile:

    - This is more of a request, then a question.
    When you set the bar for gaining ranks with EXP. Please consider the bar to be higher then today. If each Vet rank goes any faster, it only sets players expectations to get Vet 14, even faster as they do today. (Since exp is gained from several more sources then Veteran points).

    Yes, it's true that most players do not "grind" and play in a certain way that gives them 1-2 Vet ranks a day. I am concerned about "easy way" to get toward higher level. To many good MMOs, that had lots of promise, fell on the "easy" trap.

    I am looking at the effects by lowering the veteran points needed for Vet 12-14.
    Even players who demanded this, since "it took to long", are now the same players who complain about having "nothing to do". As well as too many players, who simply missed to much of the game, since they leveled from it.

    If Vet rank 12-14 took a bit longer, Cyrodiil or many other places in Tamriel, may get visits from players who didn't consider that content.....going there to get a vet rank.......to find themselves in "new" content, they did not know about.

    Or players in Craglorn, for some reason, claims it's hard to get a group there, would have more players to group with. (My experience of Graglorn today, is that its jammed packed.)

    How long did it take the "fast player" to go from Vet 12-14? One evening? 2?

    If Vet ranks gets even faster to earn. Players will not easily accept EQ AA / Champion points to be gained "slow", to prevent some players to get them all in just a few months.

    My reasoning for this request is players expectations
    Nerfing Doisha, fighter/mage guild lvl 8 quest in pact = players expected to beat these creatures with ease when they met them.

    Nerfing Main quest line (I will not spoil the part) = Players was not prepared to become Veterans. And claimed it was "to hard" in Vet 1 zones.
    There was quite a large group who considered the "old" vet area to be just right.

    Nerfing Vet 1-3 areas to "close to gap from level 49 to 50 (vet) = Now we have Vet 14, who wants easier Dungeons, Trials and arena. Since they are not prepared for this.

    It was good to see that you guys said no to nerfing the Arena!

    The main reason for my questions:
    When anything is easy to get, it looses it's value.

    That was my questions and I am looking very much forward to all the 20 or so, new contents and features which been announced to join us in Tamriel in the future.

    Best Regards
    "Honor to you and your clan!"
    Oghur Hatemachine - Orc Heavy armor tank - since launch.
    Edited by Cogo on October 4, 2014 6:35AM
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
    Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
    Guildsite: The Nephilim

    "I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
    -Voltaire

    "My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"
  • Sleep
    Sleep
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    Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.
    Nice to see you here Maria and thanks for the info. Keep up with the good job.
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    Cogo wrote: »
    My reasoning for this request is players expectations
    Nerfing Doisha, fighter/mage guild lvl 8 quest in pact = players expected to beat these creatures with ease when they met them.

    Nerfing Main quest line (I will not spoil the part) = Players was not prepared to become Veterans. And claimed it was "to hard" in Vet 1 zones.
    There was quite a large group who considered the "old" vet area to be just right.

    Nerfing Vet 1-3 areas to "close to gap from level 49 to 50 (vet) = Now we have Vet 14, who wants easier Dungeons, Trials and arena. Since they are not prepared for this.

    It was good to see that you guys said no to nerfing the Arena!

    The main reason for my questions:
    When anything is easy to get, it looses it's value.

    All of the content you listed as nerfed is solo content. But then you compare it to group content. Apples and oranges.

    They have never nerfed any group content in the game. Regular dungeons, vet dungeons, Craglorn, Trials, Arena. None of that has ever been touched. They only changed solo content. Will people who soloed to VR14 be able to jump right in and handle DragonStar Arena? No. But I doubt they would have been ready to jump right into DragonStar Arena if all they had ever done was soloed in the "old" VR content. Which, do not forget, was not the original VR content! VR solo content was not all that hard at release, got ramped up in difficulty for some reason when Craglorn was released, then brought back down in difficulty a couple months after Craglorn.

    Anyway, no one prepares for Trials or the Arena by running solo in a VR10 faction zone. You prepare for that tough endgame content by running the VR5 and VR10 vet dungeons while leveling and grouping for the 4-man delves in Craglorn. None of that content was ever nerfed!

    Having 2/3rds of the solo leveling content be extremely difficult was kind of pointless. It made a few people happy, but frustrated and drove away many players. In the meantime, it did not prepare anyone for endgame because endgame is all group content. Soloing a 20,000 health Storm Atronach versus a 17,000 health Storm Atronach? One is more difficult but neither is of much use for group content. You still learn nothing of the coordination and specialization required for group content.
  • ChuckyPayne
    ChuckyPayne
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    "We have several options as to how we will remove Veteran Ranks but all of them require time and careful planning."

    Seems not yet been decided what will be the real, therefore have to wait much, but I really really looking forward. This would be a huge step but it would be good if doesn't need to wait so long
  • æxæ
    æxæ
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    Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

    What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

    The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.

    Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?

    Similar to an answer before, we just don’t know yet.

    Hi Maria, sorry to rain on your parade, do you play this game? Just curious.
    There are no skill points involved from rank vr1 to vr14 simply by leveling up,
    you are aware of that, right? You do get 1 skill point in the process of leveling
    from 1-50 (vr1) but none from vr2 to vr14. Just wanted to correct this.
    You earn 1 skill point in AvA rank pvp cyrodiil but not from leveling your char
    veteran rank. Why do developers not know this or even confuse players with
    a statement like this? You earn VP from vr1 to vr12, not xp. But no skill points,
    none. You earn skill points for some vet dungeons and public dungeons but NOT by gaining veteran ranks. Just saying.

    (Edit) P.S.: Or did you mean you will retroactively implement 1 skill point for each VR gained? If so, scratch what i said.
    Edited by æxæ on October 5, 2014 12:06PM
  • ZOS_JanS
    ZOS_JanS
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    æxæ wrote: »
    Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

    What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?

    The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.

    Does everyone that is a Veteran Rank get lowered back to lvl50? Or are the Ranks staying, but only being changed to lvl 51, 52, etc instead?

    Similar to an answer before, we just don’t know yet.
    (Edit) P.S.: Or did you mean you will retroactively implement 1 skill point for each VR gained? If so, scratch what i said.

    That is exactly what we're doing and if you go through Maria's answers again, you may be able to spot that.
    What happens to the Veteran Ranks we currently have VR1-12?

    We want to remove the Veteran Ranks from the game and rely on the more active progression provided by the Champion System. However, when we release the Champion System we will continue to maintain Veteran Ranks. We have several options as to how we will remove Veteran Ranks but all of them require time and careful planning. In the meantime, we are making Veteran Ranks earned by XP and reducing the overall time it takes to get a Veteran Rank. We are also rewarding an Attribute Point and a Skill Point each time you reach a Veteran Rank.
    The Elder Scrolls Online Social Team - ZeniMax Online Studios
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  • reften
    reften
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    adean27 wrote: »
    @Qyrk I can answer this one. It's based on overall XP generated by an account. So for instance, if you had 4 VR 14 characters with a combined XP of 2 million, and I had 1 character with a total XP of 4 million, I would have more Champion points than you.

    They are tracking all XP that is gained.

    This is the million dollar answer that is needed. Please comment on this Zos.
    Reften
    Bosmer (Wood Elf)
    Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild

    VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.

    Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.

    Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.

    Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.
  • Razour
    Razour
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    Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.

    Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

    Just to be clear are you saying that you have a record of XP earned even beyond that which contributed to reaching the level-caps at the various stages?

    Put another way - was XP still being accumulated after VR12 was reached but before VR14 was possible and now that the cap is VR14 XP is still be accumulated on top of that?

    If that is the case is there a way that we the players can see how much XP we've each accumulated or, as and when this gets converted, will we just have to trust ZOS that everyone gets what they are due?

    BTW the reason that I ask is because although I'm already VR14 I'm still actively working through quests in order to increase various skill lines. I'm now wondering whether I should keep some quests back for when the new system comes out or if I can trust that I'll get the full credit for that XP even if I can't see it for myself (perhaps I can if someone can tell me where to look).

    ╔══════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
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  • ThornJagger
    ThornJagger
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    I love what's coming with the Champion system, now an ETA would be AWESOME! Also would like to see more solo areas introduced to Vet and Non-Vet areas, Thanks! :D
    I never loose... I either win or learn.
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