Dominoid wrote: »

700 points X 36 passives X 1 Hour = 25,200 HOURS OF PROGRESSION

FYI all this 25,200 hour grind estimate is not accurate- Paul Sage indicated that there would be a maximum amount of champion points that a character can obtain, somewhere in the 2000-3000 range. So, you can put 700 points in one skill, but that doesn't mean you can put 700 points in every skill. I know this because I was there when he gave the presentation.

NadiusMaximus wrote: »

This just rewards people that roll maximum Alts. Points should be character bound not account bound.

The points are account bound, but there is no benefit of rolling additional alts over gaining more xp on one character. You can just play a single character as much as you would play the two chars combined- your xp per time played is not impacted by having more characters.

babylon wrote: »

No I mean if you gain xp on an alt, which goes into the champion system pool for the account, then stat a champion point on your main instead of using it on the alt that actually gained the xp.

The points on your account can be spent on ALL characters you have, and they are NOT shared. So if you have 100 points, then you have 100 points to spend on character A, and 100 points to spend on B, and 100 points to spend on C. Using the points on one character does not reduce the pool that can be spent on the others.

Forgive me if this is answered somewhere. But with the Champion System, is everything done during the Veteran Ranks canned? Or will my VR transfer into the new CS points?

Just my impression...

Seems like a way overly complicated system.

Also seems to take away achievements that many players have worked hard for and doesn't appear to give anything back of equal or better value from what was taken away. Seems like a bait-and-switch scheme to me.

For example, I've been playing the game daily since pre-release at end Mar/begin Apr. During the workweek, I play maybe 1 hr mornings, then about 2-3 hrs evenings. More hrs on weekends. Don't know what it all boils down to in total hrs, but the time spans six months and counting.

There were 4320 hours between Mar 30 and Oct 1 (180 days). If I arbitrarily use 4 as the average number of hours played per day, that should give an example 45 hours (if my math is correct).

During this time, I've managed to get my 1st character to vr14. Currently she's started Rivenspire zone of Cadwell's Gold. My 2nd is a new vr5 doing Cadwell's Silver. I've worked hard on these two characters and feel that if ZoS knocks them back to level 50, all of my veteran rank effort will be for nothing. Near as I understand it, my estimated 45 hrs played will translate to 45 CP, but I can't spend them all at once in any way I choose due to the restrictive rotation scheme that will take a couple of YEARS to complete.

Seems like the CP scheme will force people to go backwards to 50 and start the vet ranks all over again by a different name with the passive thing supposedly being the sweetener.

I've already completed vr14 and vr5 on two characters. Why would I want to go backwards to level 50 again? Especially since the CP system seems like a never ending chase for passives.

will we be able to see the entire tree and all of the posibilites available? or will the tree options per skill only be able to be seen as per unlock?
i sure as hell hope we will be able to see the entire tree and where we wish to lead ourselves in the certain tree we wish to progress because i do not want to spend months on end researching every single option to find what build or skills i want and what fits my play style better. and having to respec and rebuild every few days just because i could not see what the actual path led me to in skills.
i want to be able to know what im puting points into and why im doing it.

When Paul Sage presented the champion system in June, I made a bet with a friend about how long it would take for the ESO community to understand that Character progress in ESO is not supposed to end.

Since Paul Sage admitted to copy the EQ AA system, which ran perfectly for years, increasing players power in different ways, without unbalance the game with more levels and have enough choices that no one ever got them all.
My friend said "max a month."

The "Min/maxers" got it quite quickly and left the game in July/august since:
Quote from Reddit:

"Zenimax have ruined ESO! It's impossible to calculate what the best build for any situation will be!"

We both agreed, this thread is the time when "The community" got it.
It's nice to win a bet.....but 4 months?

Well as long as is better then VR system i'm happy for honest VR system is just crap.

First, thank you OP for sharing this Infos. They are Great!

I played alot MMORPGs, i see alot Systems and Errors. This new System and the Changes are very very cool.

Spellcrafting and this is fantastic, i am so hot for this that the Air burns around me, like a Heatshield .

Yes for sure it will need some Time at the start, the Numbers will change and so on, but it offers great Options.

Every damn Character can support the Pool and every Character can use this Pool for his own Builds/Ways.

Maybe they are many Grinders outthere and they will try to push their Champion-Points through farming different Locations, like Hircindes or other Places. But this System helps to close the Difference between "normal" playing Players and Exp-Grinder.

So what the Hell should us interest if they farm and wannabe the highest in the closest Time. The Difference in Stats isnt great there, let them do.

I can play like i will and play it the normal Way without Grinding. Because i know i have more from this Game then and don`t lurk around in the Forums, and cry:* OMG, OMG, THERE ISNT ENDGAME IN TESO!!11!! .

One of the best Things is, that they erase the Veteran-Ranks, so that Lvel 50 is now Maximum-Level. So i can twink my Characters, because all Classes are great, and use the Veteran Points to Support the Builds. (I hope i dont missunderstand the Change in the Ranks)).

There isnt a Hunt to Veteran-Rank VR14 anymore, to close up for PvP and Endgame. No more crafting Vet1/Vet4/Vet8 and so on and no more changes at the max Character-Level anymore.

And no, this new System dont reinforcement the old Hunt. because every Point that max out the new Skills gives a lower Bonus. So it isnt really important if someone max out the whole Thing, he will only have some little Points more.

Yes, many will change, Numbers will fall but at the End we get a really cool new System, that kills the old bad Idea of the Veteran-Ranks.

Absolutley Amazaing Changes, i cant wait for this. I hope it comes as soon as they can implemente this.

MFG Murmeltier .

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

So someone that plays for hours on end everyday is going to be way OP than someone who plays more part time (in regards pvp)? At the moment, if you're v14 and you go 1 on 1 with another v14, you know you're equal, the only thing setting you apart is the class and skills. There's nothing your opponent has at v14 that you can't also have.

At the moment there's a level cap and once people reach it, classes aside, its an even playing field. It sounds like this champion system has no end, so those that can put in the hours to grind are going to have a huge advantage in Cryodiil. Am I seeing this right?

No, i dont think so. They have explained that if you put more Points into the Champion-Skills, the Reward will be smaller then for each Point you have invested into a Skill.

The most Players will have a Bunch of Exp at the Start, some have Veteran Characters. This Exp so i understand this right, goes into the Champion-System and you can start with that.

So everyone, except the really new Players have a Chance to distribute Points and follow up.

Let the others Play 24/7, every Point you put more into a Skill lowers the Reward. The Difference will be not so high i mean, than the Difference between a Level 50 Player and a Veteran-Rank VR 14 Player.

These are good Changes, Thumps up!

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

So someone that plays for hours on end everyday is going to be way OP than someone who plays more part time (in regards pvp)? At the moment, if you're v14 and you go 1 on 1 with another v14, you know you're equal, the only thing setting you apart is the class and skills. There's nothing your opponent has at v14 that you can't also have.

At the moment there's a level cap and once people reach it, classes aside, its an even playing field. It sounds like this champion system has no end, so those that can put in the hours to grind are going to have a huge advantage in Cryodiil. Am I seeing this right?

Also launched with the champin system will be "the constellations crate", buyable in the ESO store for £8.99. Contains 40 champion points and a chance at a rare mount.

That may be overly cynical, but it could happen.

Soulshine wrote: »

zbtiqua wrote: »

The points on your account can be spent on ALL characters you have, and they are NOT shared. So if you have 100 points, then you have 100 points to spend on character A, and 100 points to spend on B, and 100 points to spend on C. Using the points on one character does not reduce the pool that can be spent on the others.

Bad move if you ask me and I am not in favor of this - I am going to hope that is incorrect.

Care to give some reasoning why it's a bad move?

To me it means I can take my NB or Templar to a trial/dungeon and it won't matter to my overall progression in the champ system, I can take what is needed not the one that needs advancement, to me this gives flexibility, to those that put the effort in to level alts to max level.

This game is already great for alts, as I can and do share gear via the shared bank. Say a place drops an item I really want for my NB, but the guild badly needs healers (assuming I preferr to heal on my Temp), I can take my Temp, if the item I wanted drops I can give it to my NB.

This works well with the champ points per account rather than character. It leets you have characters for different things, without being penalised for playing your other characters.

Ty for this
can't wait

Rewarding time played vs skill

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Rewarding time played vs skill is a fatal design flaw that will kill the longevity for the game in regards to newer players.

What will happen with the champion system is only the current players will continue playing a ridiculous grind and all new players the come after will quickly realize there's no point in trying to catch up. This is what happened to WoW and the way they corrected the issue was each expansion dumbs the game down even more. Nov 17th will see the death of wow with the game becoming fully moron proof and accessible by anyone at any age.

ZOS think deeper into this idea....why would a new player want to play your game or take part in PvP with players leagues above them in stats/gear

Actually the whole point of the champion system is to balance that problem.
1. There are the hardcore players that devote all their time to the game and feel they should be rewarded for such. The problem is this creates a bigger and bigger gap between the hardcore player and the casual player (vertical progression if you will).
3. The casual player hates the fact they are penalised because they have a life to lead, cant keep up and simply get dominated by hardcore players that rely on greater power rather than greater skill (horizontal progression if you will).

These two camps are diametrically opposed. The solution is to use a tangent curve instead of linear progression.
Y axes = XP (just scale up or down as required)
X axes = Level (angle really....but you can scale level as you like)
It will take an infiite amount of time to hit level 90 allowing people with less time to get to level 85 quickly. There wont be much of a difference between a level 85 and level 90 player (5%). No one can hit 90 anyway.

As you can see progression is reasonably linear through the lower levels (vertical progression). As you reach higher level the curve gets much steeper and requires much more XP to progress (horizontal progression). This stops the runaway condition of vertical progression. This principle can be applied to anything.

So basically the lower level is when you are training and developing your toon (power). As you approach max level that power stabilises and your skills diversify (skill).