Champion System to Add 25,200 HOURS of Character Advancement

Nihil

Iduyenn wrote: »

Skullemainia wrote: »

This is something i have thought about as well. You can fill 30% of the armor pie with buffs, but the 4 classes have different access to buffs, so the total amount of armor when combining all class buffs will be higher for some classes than other.

To prevent one class being inferior in the armor department due to the above, as i understand the system, every slice of the pie will have it's own hard cap. That means, you can get 30% of your armor mitigation from buffs, but never more, so any buffs that would put you over the 30% will be ignored.

So if a DK who already is getting the maximum possible 30% of total mitigation from buffs by just using spiked armor, and then uses ransack, ransack buff will be ignored/wasted. But the buff will still be useful for a nightblade, who does not have spiked armor, so he can use ransack instead to get to the 30% cap, making the two classes equal when it comes to reaching the maximum potential armor value.

in the guild summit event they said the hard caps are removed from the game, every number you invest in your char. will be given to you. I think that they want to put the roles back into their places (if you know what I mean) so if you want to be a tank, you still can be a good tank with a NB but the best tanks will be DK, same thing with templar healers and sorcerers, NB damagedealers.

That i dont understand... Didnt you want to say "the best tanks will be those who put all resources and cpoints in defence"?[/quote]

Keep in mind thta they are A) reworking all class abilities, B ) they said that the way that some abilities interact will change ( from guild summit notes I think I remember reading that different armor buffs wont stack, so you can obtain the armor through buff / active abilities out side your class, like bone shield), and will have hard caps on specific abilities and passives. C) In regards to champion points, to get the full 50 % mitigation from armor yes you would have to invest all of the points for that type ( I would believe health) into armor BUT you would be sacrificing other things that might be in that tree. They might have other forms of mitigation in their. Same goes with spell resistance, You could invest all points into spell resistence for the magic aspect of the constelations, but I remember them saying their is a block mitigation against magic attacks also in those constellations so you would be sacrificing that for spell resistance. It is going to be a give and take on what you believe will be the most beneficial.

Sharee

Iduyenn wrote: »

Skullemainia wrote: »

This is something i have thought about as well. You can fill 30% of the armor pie with buffs, but the 4 classes have different access to buffs, so the total amount of armor when combining all class buffs will be higher for some classes than other.

To prevent one class being inferior in the armor department due to the above, as i understand the system, every slice of the pie will have it's own hard cap. That means, you can get 30% of your armor mitigation from buffs, but never more, so any buffs that would put you over the 30% will be ignored.

So if a DK who already is getting the maximum possible 30% of total mitigation from buffs by just using spiked armor, and then uses ransack, ransack buff will be ignored/wasted. But the buff will still be useful for a nightblade, who does not have spiked armor, so he can use ransack instead to get to the 30% cap, making the two classes equal when it comes to reaching the maximum potential armor value.

in the guild summit event they said the hard caps are removed from the game, every number you invest in your char. will be given to you.

I believe what is being removed from the game is the soft caps, not hard caps.

There still will be a 50% mitigation hard cap that you won't be able to go over no matter how much armor you stack.

Dekkameron

and alts become even more annoying to level :P

Sublime

Here's an example, how trade-offs will be emphazised and all classes will still be able to take every role.

Let's take the tank role and compare NB's and DK's. Now DK's are the obvious meta tanks with built in armor, damage mitigation and a bit of self healing. NB's do not get these bonuses from the class skill line, which means that they will not get near any of those hardcaps, but they have other ways of tanking. NB's have a lot of self healing recieved and evasion.

In the end they both take the same amout of damage in total, but mitigate it mostly in a different way.

Dekkameron wrote: »

and alts become even more annoying to level :P

Why do you mean?

Nihil

Sharee wrote: »

Iduyenn wrote: »

Skullemainia wrote: »

This is something i have thought about as well. You can fill 30% of the armor pie with buffs, but the 4 classes have different access to buffs, so the total amount of armor when combining all class buffs will be higher for some classes than other.

To prevent one class being inferior in the armor department due to the above, as i understand the system, every slice of the pie will have it's own hard cap. That means, you can get 30% of your armor mitigation from buffs, but never more, so any buffs that would put you over the 30% will be ignored.

So if a DK who already is getting the maximum possible 30% of total mitigation from buffs by just using spiked armor, and then uses ransack, ransack buff will be ignored/wasted. But the buff will still be useful for a nightblade, who does not have spiked armor, so he can use ransack instead to get to the 30% cap, making the two classes equal when it comes to reaching the maximum potential armor value.

in the guild summit event they said the hard caps are removed from the game, every number you invest in your char. will be given to you.

I believe what is being removed from the game is the soft caps, not hard caps.

There still will be a 50% mitigation hard cap that you won't be able to go over no matter how much armor you stack.

Yes and no, they are hard capping skills and passives (buffs) in particular, the highest damage reduction you can get (from how I remember hearing it from the audio) is at 50 % as that damage reduction is placed at the max amount of armor you can obtain ( outside of racial passives and ultimate abilities).

Dekkameron

Sublime wrote: »

Why do you mean?

Well, With everyone gaining champion points the gap will become wider and wider if you choose to play multiple characters. At least with the old system one you got to VR14 you wernt really worse than other VR14s.

Sharee

Dekkameron wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Why do you mean?

Well, With everyone gaining champion points the gap will become wider and wider if you choose to play multiple characters. At least with the old system one you got to VR14 you wernt really worse than other VR14s.

Playing multiple character should not put you at a disadvantage, assuming they are at least vr1, as they all earn champion points towards a common pool.

And even if your alt is not level 50 yet, it should be even easier to get it there fast since it will profit from all the champion points you have collected with the vr character/s and be correspondingly more powerful (in other words, regular sub-50 content will be even more of a cakewalk than it is now )

Dekkameron

Sharee wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Why do you mean?

Well, With everyone gaining champion points the gap will become wider and wider if you choose to play multiple characters. At least with the old system one you got to VR14 you wernt really worse than other VR14s.

Playing multiple character should not put you at a disadvantage, assuming they are at least vr1, as they all earn champion points towards a common pool.

And even if your alt is not level 50 yet, it should be even easier to get it there fast since it will profit from all the champion points you have collected with the vr character/s and be correspondingly more powerful (in other words, regular sub-50 content will be even more of a cakewalk than it is now )

All characters gain champions points into a pool that all other characters can use? I did not know that, i assumed it would be seperate for each of them. That is good news.

I really should have read more about it. I have 7 VR characters (only 1 VR14) so hoping the points will be rolling in

Sublime

Dekkameron wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

Why do you mean?

Well, With everyone gaining champion points the gap will become wider and wider if you choose to play multiple characters. At least with the old system one you got to VR14 you wernt really worse than other VR14s.

There will be a system called "Enlightenment". You gain enlightenment whenever you aren't gaining EXP with a level 50 character. (There has to be at least one level 50 character on the account in order to be able to gain Enlightenment). Enlightenment reduces the amount of EXP needed for the next CP. Enlightenment will be consumed by gaining EXP with a level 50 character.

Example:

Imagine one has a level 50 but decides to play on his level 20 alt for now. As he gains EXP with the level 20, the account gains enlightenment. The next time he gains EXP with the level 50 character the enlightenment will be consumed, by reducing the amount of EXP needed to get a CP. ZOS is currently thinking of a cap of a full CP for Enlightenment, meaning once a players Enlightenment is full, he can log on his level 50, hit a mob and he will get a CP, without having gained any EXP (except for the ones from the mob) on this particular character.
_____

I'm not sure if that's what you're worried about, if not please specify.

Nacario

LadyAngel wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

I'll explain it to you. You are apparently the sole player that likes Cadwell's gold and cares about where your characters are at in it and likes leveling all of your characters to VR12 separately. Everybody else hates it, so they are changing it.

No, said person isn't. I enjoy playing Cadwell's silver/gold. So you can't say everyone hates it. That is your personal opinion as well as a few others maybe, but not everyone.
I have the same questions and concern as well. I put allot of work into my Vet 10 Nightblade and my Vet 6 Templar. Was all of it for nothing because of this change?

No it wasnt all for nothing. It Depends from what angle you look at it. No it isnt the fastest way of leveling, if this was your intent then yes you problably wasted some time. On the upside you problably gained quite a few achis due to this, you finished stories, got shards, did dungoens, world completion, etc. Anyone who has a main character sort of wants to finish most of the content, just so that theyve completed it.

And I also believe once the story continues, you need to finish cadwells gold to progress?

Skullemainia

That i dont understand... Didnt you want to say "the best tanks will be those who put all resources and cpoints in defence"?[/quote]

that to. but if both DK and NB have all the Cpoints in defence and they are both good players then the DK should be the best tank.

now the best tanks are light armor tanks; when the champion system comes out those light armor tanks will be less effective as heavy armor tanks. that's what I mean with "they want to put the roles back into their places"

I still don't understand the 30% but we will see that when it comes out I guess

NotSo

Don't forget those NBs have a +30% stamina regen passive to eat the rest of the damage through blocking and roll dodging. Stacking Blur with Evasiveness is not a bad idea either for fighting groups and heated blades for one mob. NBs are tanky as sh**.

Sublime

Skullemainia wrote: »

That i dont understand... Didnt you want to say "the best tanks will be those who put all resources and cpoints in defence"?

that to. but if both DK and NB have all the Cpoints in defence and they are both good players then the DK should be the best tank.

now the best tanks are light armor tanks; when the champion system comes out those light armor tanks will be less effective as heavy armor tanks. that's what I mean with "they want to put the roles back into their places"

I still don't understand the 30% but we will see that when it comes out I guess [/quote]

The 30% refer to the following stats: class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food, so basically anything that has to do with skills and active combat. I personally expect the caps to be relatively high, so that it won't be easy to reach them and class passives will get a meaning. This would mean that a NB would never get the same armor stats as a DK, they however have other means to make up for it (evasion for example). Remember some buffs won't be stackable anymore, so builds without stacking skills will become better.

The problem I have with the "all points in defense" is, how do you define "defense"? Armor, all defensive values (spell resist, armor, block mitigation etc.) or HP? Because a DK will most likely still be the class with the most armor while NB will have the best evasion and Templars the best stamina regeneration. So defence is a bit ambiguous. Please correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstood your statement.

Iduyenn

Well... I am a templar. I have some amazing tank passive too. But i also Need magicka and magickaregen to be effective.
The question is, if there are Cp-constellations supporting this directly or indirectly.

Some builds will not be possible unless you have the points.

Sublime

Iduyenn wrote: »

Well... I am a templar. I have some amazing tank passive too. But i also Need magicka and magickaregen to be effective.
The question is, if there are Cp-constellations supporting this directly or indirectly.

Some builds will not be possible unless you have the points.

Nobody knows any of the passives for sure yet (it's all subject to change), but there will be a wide variety of passives to choose from so it's quite likely that you will work out a way to play your build.

Sublime

I just watched the video again and thought this might be worth noting (17:20), there are exactly two things that go beyond the pie, and those are ultimates and racial passives.

Dominoid

Sublime wrote: »

I just watched the video again and thought this might be worth noting (17:20), there are exactly two things that go beyond the pie, and those are ultimates and racial passives.

Indeed. Covered in this other detailed post:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136702/how-the-champion-system-is-a-complete-overhaul-of-game-numbers/p1

TequilaFire

I hope this will turn out to be less complicated in implementation than it sounds or I see many respecs in my future.
It will be a little daunting assigning all the CPs the first time.

Sublime

It will certainly take some time to get used to, but if you watch the next ESO Live (tomorrow!), which is dedicated to the CS, you should be able to understand most parts of it.

@Dominoid‌ the link leads to the 4th page of the thread not sure if that's intended, just thought you might want to know it.

bosmern_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Rewarding time played vs skill

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Rewarding time played vs skill is a fatal design flaw that will kill the longevity for the game in regards to newer players.

What will happen with the champion system is only the current players will continue playing a ridiculous grind and all new players the come after will quickly realize there's no point in trying to catch up. This is what happened to WoW and the way they corrected the issue was each expansion dumbs the game down even more. Nov 17th will see the death of wow with the game becoming fully moron proof and accessible by anyone at any age.

ZOS think deeper into this idea....why would a new player want to play your game or take part in PvP with players leagues above them in stats/gear

Actually the whole point of the champion system is to balance that problem.
1. There are the hardcore players that devote all their time to the game and feel they should be rewarded for such. The problem is this creates a bigger and bigger gap between the hardcore player and the casual player (vertical progression if you will).
3. The casual player hates the fact they are penalised because they have a life to lead, cant keep up and simply get dominated by hardcore players that rely on greater power rather than greater skill (horizontal progression if you will).

These two camps are diametrically opposed. The solution is to use a tangent curve instead of linear progression.
Y axes = XP (just scale up or down as required)
X axes = Level (angle really....but you can scale level as you like)
It will take an infiite amount of time to hit level 90 allowing people with less time to get to level 85 quickly. There wont be much of a difference between a level 85 and level 90 player (5%). No one can hit 90 anyway.

As you can see progression is reasonably linear through the lower levels (vertical progression). As you reach higher level the curve gets much steeper and requires much more XP to progress (horizontal progression). This stops the runaway condition of vertical progression. This principle can be applied to anything.

So basically the lower level is when you are training and developing your toon (power). As you approach max level that power stabilises and your skills diversify (skill).

This new system will end this game. I'm sorry but it will. I find it hard to explain what I see. People are blinded by endless progression and current players are excited for more stuff to do but my point goes unanswered....

If the champion system has been out a few months now...and I just joined the game...it wouldn't take long for me to realize I can never compete with the top. This is a huge problem. Of course kids who have no life and play 12 hrs+ per day deserve to have a little edge. But this edge WilL be leaps and bounds.

The advantage that players who have played for longer, and more seriously will be things like +10% to max magicka. 10% really isn't that much of a difference, and a new/casual player should expect to be beaten by a old/hardcore player.

No one would want to play the game seriously if a brand new player who spends 1-2 hours a day can easily kill someone who spends 10+ hours playing.

I doubt your 10% are correct but even if they would, do you know what 10% more DPS mean?

It means that if you don't have it you are out from any type of group content because nobody will accept you in his group.

And that 10% are a world in pvp is I think not even necessary an explanation.

The issue however is that its all going to about XP and this means time. This isn't about playing the game and then getting stronger by doing so, its about exploiting the same 1-2 grind spots at Craglorn and this is horrible for an MMO or any game as big as ESO.

Developers make hundreds of mobs, maps, npcs and in the end players wont see all of this as these 1-2 grind spots will matter and nothing else.

I used 10% as an example, Paul sage used 5% as an example.

bottom of the line, players who spend more time playing and play more avidly then others should be awarded more then those who don't, which is understandable.