Champion System to Add 25,200 HOURS of Character Advancement

Rune_Relic

rlbolab14a_ESO wrote: »

I keep seeing people posting about the amount of week's/months/years to get all points. I don't understand why people are applying time to it since it's a matter of experience gain and not time played? I see people comparing this new system to EQ (which I still play from time to time) and it's AA system and honestly, I can get 800 AA's in a week with my Shadowknight Swarming, or about 500 to 600 AA's a week with my ranger using headshot (use to be more but headshot only works on single targets since last years patch). It's all about grinding the experience and here on ESO we already do that with AOE builds and Craig grind groups. There will be people capping this in less then a month.

What I don't understand is why the diminishing returns. The idea is to get stronger like EQ's AA system. With this system your really not getting any stronger after X amount of points which means there really isn't a need to 'grind' all that much. Or am I missing something? I'm not going to go grind just so I can have a .01 boost over another player, for that I'll be out looking for a weapon or armor or something that gives me a better boost then .01%. So after the first 100-200 points, what's the point of continuing the grind?

Hence diversify. The whole point is grinders grind to max out the levels. They become elite. They race to be the most elite.
Vertical progression allows this to happen. It allows the grinders to out level anyone and everyone and become godlike.

Horizontal progression ends the the levelling wars. But you are still welcome to grind away for eternity if that really rocks for you.

Elsterchen

Hmmm, what is actually happening to the tens constellation - the serpent ?

Still do not understand how is this system (account-wide distribution of champion points) is supposed to NOT contribute a strong advantage of 24/7-players over casual players.

Happy for any explanation.

Dominoid

Elsterchen wrote: »

Hmmm, what is actually happening to the tens constellation - the serpent ?

Still do not understand how is this system (account-wide distribution of champion points) is supposed to NOT contribute a strong advantage of 24/7-players over casual players.

Happy for any explanation.

Mainly diminishing returns on point investment. The numbers given are for illustrative purposes only. Someone who plays 24/7 may be able to put 700 points in a passive. But 75% of that passive's value "only" takes 100 points. So sure that 24/7 player can work and max out that passive but the majority of the points provide a very small benefit. The casual player will take a while to get those 100 points in, but won't be woefully behind.

The other thing which I haven't addressed yet, is the CS is changing the way numbers work. Without giving the detail (it requires a post of its own) a fully spec'd armor passive in the CS is only 24% of the whole "armour" pie.

Alright I need more detail. This is the armor "pie" in the CS. These are not illustrative these are actual number as they currently exist but are subject to change.

• 30% - Buffs (class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food) - They want to promote "active" combat so it gets the biggest chunk.
• 24% - The Armor itself - Legendary, max level, heavy armor gets the 24%. You cannot get to the 24% without all that is mentioned.
• 24% - 700 points in the CS passive. You can double the value of the armor itself by full CS investment. If you only got the armor slice to 15%, a 700 CS investment will only double the 15%.
• 5% - Item set bonuses
• 5% - Shield
• 4% - Reinforced armor trait (all pieces)
• 4% - Enchants
• 2% - Defending weapon trait
• 2% - Mundas

In order to get the most out of your armor rating - which is only 50% mitigation max, you have to do all of the above. So a "casual" can get to 76% of the whole without any CS investment. Investing only a "little" can get the casual closer to 90% because the first points invested in the CS are the most beneficial. That 24/7 will always have an advantage (and should), but it won't be a gaping hole.

Damn it . . . now I gotta make that other post because I started down the rabbit hole.

Elsterchen

First, thank you for your answer, but I still can't quite follow:

Dominoid wrote: »

Mainly diminishing returns on point investment. The numbers given are for illustrative purposes only. Someone who plays 24/7 may be able to put 700 points in a passive. But 75% of that passive's value "only" takes 100 points. So sure that 24/7 player can work and max out that passive but the majority of the points provide a very small benefit. The casual player will take a while to get those 100 points in, but won't be woefully behind.

While this sounds very fine to me it clearly contradicts the statement of you first post:

Dominoid wrote: »

The first thing EVERYONE will notice when the Champion System releases is that all of their stat numbers will be multiplied by ten. That means 2,500 health becomes 25,000, or 400 frost resistance will become 4,000. This is to add "granularity" to the system. They want the player to be able to SEE the effects of their choices. So say if someone chooses a passive that increase frost resistance by 1%, it will be easier to see that change.

Please do not take this personal i really appriciate your aim of educating and informing an elder troll like myself, but in my world it is plainly impossible to SEE an effect of a 1% increase (an argument I personally think was made to please 24/7 players) and at the same time state a 10% benefit is SMALL (an argument I personally think was made for casual players and newbies).

Dominoid wrote: »

The other thing which I haven't addressed yet, is the CS is changing the way numbers work. Without giving the detail (it requires a post of its own) a fully spec'd armor passive in the CS is only 24% of the whole "armour" pie.

Alright I need more detail. This is the armor "pie" in the CS. These are not illustrative these are actual number as they currently exist but are subject to change.

• 30% - Buffs (class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food) - They want to promote "active" combat so it gets the biggest chunk.
• 24% - The Armor itself - Legendary, max level, heavy armor gets the 24%. You cannot get to the 24% without all that is mentioned.
• 24% - 700 points in the CS passive. You can double the value of the armor itself by full CS investment. If you only got the armor slice to 15%, a 700 CS investment will only double the 15%.
• 5% - Item set bonuses
• 5% - Shield
• 4% - Reinforced armor trait (all pieces)
• 4% - Enchants
• 2% - Defending weapon trait
• 2% - Mundas

In order to get the most out of your armor rating - which is only 50% mitigation max, you have to do all of the above. So a "casual" can get to 76% of the whole without any CS investment. Investing only a "little" can get the casual closer to 90% because the first points invested in the CS are the most beneficial. That 24/7 will always have an advantage (and should), but it won't be a gaping hole.

Damn it . . . now I gotta make that other post because I started down the rabbit hole.

Thanks again for your efforts but leaving the numbers away (which might be the best since they can still change, anyways) in sum this indicates a very complex system (personally : hurray!) with many strategic opportunities (personally : hurray!) that as far as I see it will lead to tons of more balancing issues (complex boils down to: we do not know which one of the possible factors is actually coursing the imbalance) and as well as whining posts (strategic opportunities might just be a bit to much for ppl who just want to spam buttons and be rewarded). Both, complex and strategic however favour 24/7 -> simply because they don't value time as much as casuals do - and time is the key ressource of the champion system.

So, while I do (hopefully) understand the possible framework of the fighting system in the CS now, thanks to your effort, I still do not see how this system is encouraging newbies or casuals to engage in it.


My feelings towards this change as a whole are mixed, on the one side I fully understand that if a system does not work and does not seem fixable, one should strife for a better solution, even if it means to throw everything that is there away. I just do not think that another squishy system is THE answer and all I read about CS till now just makes it very squishy to me.

... and I still miss the tenth constellation within the overall framework of the CS system - is it just cancelled out of the TES universe, because it doesn't "fit" the numbers ?

Guppet

rlbolab14a_ESO wrote: »

What I don't understand is why the diminishing returns. The idea is to get stronger like EQ's AA system. With this system your really not getting any stronger after X amount of points which means there really isn't a need to 'grind' all that much. Or am I missing something? I'm not going to go grind just so I can have a .01 boost over another player, for that I'll be out looking for a weapon or armor or something that gives me a better boost then .01%. So after the first 100-200 points, what's the point of continuing the grind?

It's all about money.

I'll spell it out for you.

Here is a theoretical scenario without diminishing returns.

Player 1 has a full time job, a family and plays about 10 hours a week.

Player 2 has no job no family and plays 80 hours a week.

Both players pay 8.99 a month for the game.

When player 1 comes up against player 2 in PVP, he can't win, player 2 has 8 times his bonus stats, as there are no diminishing returns.

How long do you think player 1 will find this acceptable and continue to pay his 8.99.

Now if player 1 is more of the player base than player 2, then loosing the income from player 1 types, costs the business more than holding back player 2 type players.

Ohioastro

I have been skeptical because of how the EQ AA system evolved. Eventually you ended up with tens of thousands of Alterate Achievement points. I don't know the modern game, but 5 years ago you could earn 5 AA/hour doing pretty repetitive grinding. The idea of pulling a level thousands of times like a monkey in a cage to level up a new character was...incredibly depressing. They finally had to basically auto-grant thousands of them to newly leveled characters to make it possible to start anew.

This system has a couple of advantages. First, the idea that you do it once is a huge help. That way, if you get tired of your dragonknight you can roll up a new sorceror (or whatever) and not have to sink hundreds of hours of play to get them up to speed. The second is a relatively low cap.

The thing to watch out for are whether the "low cap" stays that way. In my mind there is a tension between PvE (where people want to see character growth) and PvP (where, ideally, you want a well-balanced competitive environment.) If characters get too much of an edge from time invested you end up shutting them out of competitive things, and that isn't good for the game.

I'd like to see more time invested allowing you to be more flexible (e.g. master more weapon skills), rather than making you stronger in one role.

Rune_Relic

@Ohioastro

That's the idea..you focus on diversity of build rather than power of build.
In the same way you can learn lots and lots of skills....you can only have 5 on the loadout.
So not only is the design more skill based...it is also situational.

The problem I have is in the one hand attributes are going to be far more meaningful. ie befinefical in some ways and negative in others. I do struggle to see how being more skilled (varied) in one hand can coexist with being more specialised in the other hand.

The audio did explain that the 9 constellations can help out in surprising ways to make that possible. So they obviously are addressing that. If it makes everyone more unique that's fine by me.

Merlin13KAGL

Less cookie cutter, more fine-tunability.

Almost more TES-like. Closer, anyway.

Mcmaroney

may have been asked i have yet to run across it though...yet

a current vr 14 character what happens to all that xp they have built up getting there is it converted to champ?
and some of you may say if it is walaaa instant badass..if its added
but if you take this away from these people who have played so hard to get there whether its from grinding like a madperson or simply doing quest after quest(a little bit of both in my case) what are these people left with..o yea another 2+years before they max out again.

so take away or give?

"just a newb in a wolfs clothing"

Dominoid

Mcmaroney wrote: »

may have been asked i have yet to run across it though...yet

a current vr 14 character what happens to all that xp they have built up getting there is it converted to champ?
and some of you may say if it is walaaa instant badass..if its added
but if you take this away from these people who have played so hard to get there whether its from grinding like a madperson or simply doing quest after quest(a little bit of both in my case) what are these people left with..o yea another 2+years before they max out again.

so take away or give?

"just a newb in a wolfs clothing"

At the Guild Summit and since then here in the forums ZOS confirmed that they are actively tracking all XP earned after VR14 and that additional XP will convert to additional Champion Points. So someone who has been at VR14 for a few months will receive more Champion Points than someone that just reached VR14.

All XP earned above level 50 on all your characters will count towards your Champion Points. So if you earned one billion XP on a single VR character and someone else earned a 1/2 billion points on two VR characters each you will both get the same amount of Champion Points.

Champion Points earned through either method is not unbound however. There will be a cap placed on the maximum amount of Champion Points given at the system's inception. This is to keep players closer together when released. They do not know what that number will be, but they say that 95%+ of the players won't be affected by the cap.

So if you've been creating Alts simply to pad a Champion Point conversion, you don't need to do so. Simply keep playing your main and you will receive the credit.

The post from Maria:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1303290/#Comment_1303290

Islyn

I actually think there should be a marked difference between casual player and hardcore player. Same as anything else. Casual workers = less money than hard core 80/hr week workers. Casual fitness people less fit than hard core fitness people and so on.

Mine varies from zero time to a lot of time day to day due to the nature of my job. However, this IS my spare time thing at the moment - as with little kids in bed etc I cannot exactly be out travelling or spelunking or whatever.

As I choose to be here more than watch TV, I think I should have it a bit better than someone who shows up 2 hours on Saturday morning once a week.

Time in game *should* net a better bonus than given to people who don't play much.

Artis

I don't like the way it sounds. Now, I can just change gear - and I'm a DPS even though I was a tank 10 seconds ago. With this new system, I'm afraid, there won't be enough points to max out at least 2 roles. I don't want to respec often
- Please, ZOS, if you're reading this - take care of that nuance.

OrangeTheCat

zbtiqua wrote: »

snip

The points on your account can be spent on ALL characters you have, and they are NOT shared. So if you have 100 points, then you have 100 points to spend on character A, and 100 points to spend on B, and 100 points to spend on C. Using the points on one character does not reduce the pool that can be spent on the others.

So, it is okay if we stop trying to level our lowbie VR alts if we already have at least one VR14? That's great news if accurate. Should put a dint in those complaining about XP gain now but I still feel sorry for those who don't have a VR14 and are trying to level their lowbie VR character.

LadyAngel

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Forgive me if this is answered somewhere. But with the Champion System, is everything done during the Veteran Ranks canned? Or will my VR transfer into the new CS points?

This is the same question I am asking after reading this. I hope someone can answer it.

Dominoid

LadyAngel wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Forgive me if this is answered somewhere. But with the Champion System, is everything done during the Veteran Ranks canned? Or will my VR transfer into the new CS points?

This is the same question I am asking after reading this. I hope someone can answer it.

Answered above:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1394698/#Comment_1394698

LadyAngel

timidobserver wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

I'll explain it to you. You are apparently the sole player that likes Cadwell's gold and cares about where your characters are at in it and likes leveling all of your characters to VR12 separately. Everybody else hates it, so they are changing it.

No, said person isn't. I enjoy playing Cadwell's silver/gold. So you can't say everyone hates it. That is your personal opinion as well as a few others maybe, but not everyone.
I have the same questions and concern as well. I put allot of work into my Vet 10 Nightblade and my Vet 6 Templar. Was all of it for nothing because of this change?

LadyAngel

Dominoid wrote: »

LadyAngel wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Forgive me if this is answered somewhere. But with the Champion System, is everything done during the Veteran Ranks canned? Or will my VR transfer into the new CS points?

This is the same question I am asking after reading this. I hope someone can answer it.

Answered above:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1394698/#Comment_1394698

Thank you very much for the link.

Sylvyr

I wonder if they will make a thief passive for better chance at rare loot table drops... That'd be so cool. Might see a signet of the warlock!

Dominoid

LadyAngel wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Wolfenbelle wrote: »

Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:

1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?

2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.

The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.

I'll explain it to you. You are apparently the sole player that likes Cadwell's gold and cares about where your characters are at in it and likes leveling all of your characters to VR12 separately. Everybody else hates it, so they are changing it.

No, said person isn't. I enjoy playing Cadwell's silver/gold. So you can't say everyone hates it. That is your personal opinion as well as a few others maybe, but not everyone.
I have the same questions and concern as well. I put allot of work into my Vet 10 Nightblade and my Vet 6 Templar. Was all of it for nothing because of this change?

No it wasn't for nothing. You will receive Champion Points for all XP earned after level 50 for all your characters. So because you have a VR10 and a VR6 you have two characters that have been earning Champion Points that you will receive when the system goes live. Note: Those CP will be for your whole account and all points will be spendable by both character separately.

Skullemainia

As mentioned, each sub-constellation has 4 passives that can be spec'ed into. In addition to these four passives each, each constellation also has four additional passives that are unlocked and strengthened as more and more points are placed into a constellation. For example, after you place 10 Champion Points total in the Apprentice constellation you automatically unlock and get the benefits of a new passive called Extraction Boost which increases the likelihood to extract better material. Continuing to place Champion Points into the Apprentice will continue to strengthen this new passive automatically. You do not place Champion Points into this "second-tier" of passives. The second-tier is unlocked automatically as you place more Champion Points in a constellation. These second-tier passives are initially unlocked at 10, 30, 50 and 100 points in a constellation.

This brings the total amount of passives per constellation to 8 for each constellation - 4 that you spec into and four that unlock automatically. This means that a total of 72 new passives are being added by the Champion System.



hmm, where do you get the 8 from?? shouldn't it be 16 passives per constellation?? each of the 36 passives gives you 4 second-tier passives wright? so that should be 144 new passives... or not?

Sublime

Islyn wrote: »

I actually think there should be a marked difference between casual player and hardcore player. Same as anything else. Casual workers = less money than hard core 80/hr week workers. Casual fitness people less fit than hard core fitness people and so on.

Mine varies from zero time to a lot of time day to day due to the nature of my job. However, this IS my spare time thing at the moment - as with little kids in bed etc I cannot exactly be out travelling or spelunking or whatever.

As I choose to be here more than watch TV, I think I should have it a bit better than someone who shows up 2 hours on Saturday morning once a week.

Time in game *should* net a better bonus than given to people who don't play much.

You will get a better bonus than someone who played less than you, the only difference is that it gets increasingly more difficult to increase the margin between your bonus and the one who plays less than you.

Dominoid

Skullemainia wrote: »

As mentioned, each sub-constellation has 4 passives that can be spec'ed into. In addition to these four passives each, each constellation also has four additional passives that are unlocked and strengthened as more and more points are placed into a constellation. For example, after you place 10 Champion Points total in the Apprentice constellation you automatically unlock and get the benefits of a new passive called Extraction Boost which increases the likelihood to extract better material. Continuing to place Champion Points into the Apprentice will continue to strengthen this new passive automatically. You do not place Champion Points into this "second-tier" of passives. The second-tier is unlocked automatically as you place more Champion Points in a constellation. These second-tier passives are initially unlocked at 10, 30, 50 and 100 points in a constellation.

This brings the total amount of passives per constellation to 8 for each constellation - 4 that you spec into and four that unlock automatically. This means that a total of 72 new passives are being added by the Champion System.


hmm, where do you get the 8 from?? shouldn't it be 16 passives per constellation?? each of the 36 passives gives you 4 second-tier passives wright? so that should be 144 new passives... or not?

There are 9 constellations. Each of the nine have 4 passives that you can spec into. And four that unlock at 10, 30, 50 and 100 points placed in an individual constellation. That's eight each.

tplink3r1

finally some real character progression, thank you Zenimax!

Skullemainia

Dominoid wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Hmmm, what is actually happening to the tens constellation - the serpent ?

Still do not understand how is this system (account-wide distribution of champion points) is supposed to NOT contribute a strong advantage of 24/7-players over casual players.

Happy for any explanation.

Mainly diminishing returns on point investment. The numbers given are for illustrative purposes only. Someone who plays 24/7 may be able to put 700 points in a passive. But 75% of that passive's value "only" takes 100 points. So sure that 24/7 player can work and max out that passive but the majority of the points provide a very small benefit. The casual player will take a while to get those 100 points in, but won't be woefully behind.

The other thing which I haven't addressed yet, is the CS is changing the way numbers work. Without giving the detail (it requires a post of its own) a fully spec'd armor passive in the CS is only 24% of the whole "armour" pie.

Alright I need more detail. This is the armor "pie" in the CS. These are not illustrative these are actual number as they currently exist but are subject to change.

• 30% - Buffs (class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food) - They want to promote "active" combat so it gets the biggest chunk.
• 24% - The Armor itself - Legendary, max level, heavy armor gets the 24%. You cannot get to the 24% without all that is mentioned.
• 24% - 700 points in the CS passive. You can double the value of the armor itself by full CS investment. If you only got the armor slice to 15%, a 700 CS investment will only double the 15%.
• 5% - Item set bonuses
• 5% - Shield
• 4% - Reinforced armor trait (all pieces)
• 4% - Enchants
• 2% - Defending weapon trait
• 2% - Mundas

In order to get the most out of your armor rating - which is only 50% mitigation max, you have to do all of the above. So a "casual" can get to 76% of the whole without any CS investment. Investing only a "little" can get the casual closer to 90% because the first points invested in the CS are the most beneficial. That 24/7 will always have an advantage (and should), but it won't be a gaping hole.

Damn it . . . now I gotta make that other post because I started down the rabbit hole.

hi, thanks for the good explanation, but I still don't understand some things;

not every class has the same bonuses, so the 30% from buffs and skills will be different for each class? so when I am a DK and I have all passives and I pop-up spiked armor I will have the most out of it. but what if I use ransack, witch is a one hand and shield ability that increases your armor? will I go over the 30%?? I don't get how they can use buffs and skills and place a percentage on it, btw class skills will give you more armor if you have more magica.


and the item sets how is that calculated? did they take the Item set that has the most armor on legendary on max lvl??

p.s.: srry for the wrong spelling, my english isn't that well

Sublime

Skullemainia wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Hmmm, what is actually happening to the tens constellation - the serpent ?

Still do not understand how is this system (account-wide distribution of champion points) is supposed to NOT contribute a strong advantage of 24/7-players over casual players.

Happy for any explanation.

Mainly diminishing returns on point investment. The numbers given are for illustrative purposes only. Someone who plays 24/7 may be able to put 700 points in a passive. But 75% of that passive's value "only" takes 100 points. So sure that 24/7 player can work and max out that passive but the majority of the points provide a very small benefit. The casual player will take a while to get those 100 points in, but won't be woefully behind.

The other thing which I haven't addressed yet, is the CS is changing the way numbers work. Without giving the detail (it requires a post of its own) a fully spec'd armor passive in the CS is only 24% of the whole "armour" pie.

Alright I need more detail. This is the armor "pie" in the CS. These are not illustrative these are actual number as they currently exist but are subject to change.

• 30% - Buffs (class/weapon skills and passives, potions, food) - They want to promote "active" combat so it gets the biggest chunk.
• 24% - The Armor itself - Legendary, max level, heavy armor gets the 24%. You cannot get to the 24% without all that is mentioned.
• 24% - 700 points in the CS passive. You can double the value of the armor itself by full CS investment. If you only got the armor slice to 15%, a 700 CS investment will only double the 15%.
• 5% - Item set bonuses
• 5% - Shield
• 4% - Reinforced armor trait (all pieces)
• 4% - Enchants
• 2% - Defending weapon trait
• 2% - Mundas

In order to get the most out of your armor rating - which is only 50% mitigation max, you have to do all of the above. So a "casual" can get to 76% of the whole without any CS investment. Investing only a "little" can get the casual closer to 90% because the first points invested in the CS are the most beneficial. That 24/7 will always have an advantage (and should), but it won't be a gaping hole.

Damn it . . . now I gotta make that other post because I started down the rabbit hole.

hi, thanks for the good explanation, but I still don't understand some things;

not every class has the same bonuses, so the 30% from buffs and skills will be different for each class? so when I am a DK and I have all passives and I pop-up spiked armor I will have the most out of it. but what if I use ransack, witch is a one hand and shield ability that increases your armor? will I go over the 30%?? I don't get how they can use buffs and skills and place a percentage on it, btw class skills will give you more armor if you have more magica.


and the item sets how is that calculated? did they take the Item set that has the most armor on legendary on max lvl??

p.s.: srry for the wrong spelling, my english isn't that well

1. Active abilities will belong to a different piece of the "pie" than the rest, so you will still be able to get bonuses from using it.

2. Yes, if you want to have, for example, max armor, you need all heavy, legendary and reinforced.

Sharee

Skullemainia wrote: »

not every class has the same bonuses, so the 30% from buffs and skills will be different for each class? so when I am a DK and I have all passives and I pop-up spiked armor I will have the most out of it. but what if I use ransack, witch is a one hand and shield ability that increases your armor? will I go over the 30%?? I don't get how they can use buffs and skills and place a percentage on it, btw class skills will give you more armor if you have more magica.

This is something i have thought about as well. You can fill 30% of the armor pie with buffs, but the 4 classes have different access to buffs, so the total amount of armor when combining all class buffs will be higher for some classes than other.

To prevent one class being inferior in the armor department due to the above, as i understand the system, every slice of the pie will have it's own hard cap. That means, you can get 30% of your armor mitigation from buffs, but never more, so any buffs that would put you over the 30% will be ignored.

So if a DK who already is getting the maximum possible 30% of total mitigation from buffs by just using spiked armor, and then uses ransack, ransack buff will be ignored/wasted. But the buff will still be useful for a nightblade, who does not have spiked armor, so he can use ransack instead to get to the 30% cap, making the two classes equal when it comes to reaching the maximum potential armor value.

Rune_Relic

Id do hope they have a comprehensive "champion system for dummies" published at release. lol

Father

I just hope there will be sneak dmg bonus... to revive what I lost during the last update

Skullemainia

This is something i have thought about as well. You can fill 30% of the armor pie with buffs, but the 4 classes have different access to buffs, so the total amount of armor when combining all class buffs will be higher for some classes than other.

To prevent one class being inferior in the armor department due to the above, as i understand the system, every slice of the pie will have it's own hard cap. That means, you can get 30% of your armor mitigation from buffs, but never more, so any buffs that would put you over the 30% will be ignored.

So if a DK who already is getting the maximum possible 30% of total mitigation from buffs by just using spiked armor, and then uses ransack, ransack buff will be ignored/wasted. But the buff will still be useful for a nightblade, who does not have spiked armor, so he can use ransack instead to get to the 30% cap, making the two classes equal when it comes to reaching the maximum potential armor value.

[/quote]

in the guild summit event they said the hard caps are removed from the game, every number you invest in your char. will be given to you. I think that they want to put the roles back into their places (if you know what I mean) so if you want to be a tank, you still can be a good tank with a NB but the best tanks will be DK, same thing with templar healers and sorcerers, NB damagedealers.

Iduyenn

Skullemainia wrote: »

This is something i have thought about as well. You can fill 30% of the armor pie with buffs, but the 4 classes have different access to buffs, so the total amount of armor when combining all class buffs will be higher for some classes than other.

To prevent one class being inferior in the armor department due to the above, as i understand the system, every slice of the pie will have it's own hard cap. That means, you can get 30% of your armor mitigation from buffs, but never more, so any buffs that would put you over the 30% will be ignored.

So if a DK who already is getting the maximum possible 30% of total mitigation from buffs by just using spiked armor, and then uses ransack, ransack buff will be ignored/wasted. But the buff will still be useful for a nightblade, who does not have spiked armor, so he can use ransack instead to get to the 30% cap, making the two classes equal when it comes to reaching the maximum potential armor value.

in the guild summit event they said the hard caps are removed from the game, every number you invest in your char. will be given to you. I think that they want to put the roles back into their places (if you know what I mean) so if you want to be a tank, you still can be a good tank with a NB but the best tanks will be DK, same thing with templar healers and sorcerers, NB damagedealers.[/quote]

That i dont understand... Didnt you want to say "the best tanks will be those who put all resources and cpoints in defence"?