Wolfenbelle wrote: »Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:
1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?
2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.
The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.
Wolfenbelle wrote: »Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:
1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?
2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.
The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.
Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »
So this game is going to become like EVE? Is that how i'm reading it?
Great game but unless you have been here since the get go you will always be fodder for the vets with no way to equal them?
Like EVE is set up now where new players can join the game but they will NEVER be at the same level as those Vets. Thus there is 2 games in EVE, one for vets and one for everyone else.
We need ACTUAL facts from Devs about stuff like this not just 3rd party replies, good post but it should not be a players job to report stuff being implemented into the game.
That's just a cheap ass shot from Zeni to see how it will be received then if its bad they step in and say 'actually that's not how its going to happen, we never said that'.
School yard stuff Zeni. Do you think we are all 15 years old and have never seen this sort of stuff before??
Wolfenbelle wrote: »Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:
1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?
2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.
Spectrasoul wrote: »Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?
ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.
Spectrasoul wrote: »Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.
Spectrasoul wrote: »Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.
Erm?? except you don't earn XP in the VR levels as I understand it so i'd love to know how they are tracking it
@audigyGreatfellow wrote: »NadiusMaximus wrote: »Because the more complex and complicated it is, the less people will see that it is just a death grasp to try and hold onto a meager straw horse of an end game idea.
I hate keep coming off negative, I think that the New areas will be awesome, but not if you absolutely have to be in a four man freakin group just to walk around in it. New level system is welcomed, for this big of an overhaul we need more definition of what's going to happen, which we have gotten in small parts, up until lately.
This will either make or break the game for many many people, so guys I beg, I plead, I pray you get it right at launch, cause if it's buggy, twitchy, exploitable, lagging, it's not gonna go well.
You know, regarding that "if you absolutely have to be in a four man group just to walk around in it" comment is what catches me: I really wish they'd make individual instances of those areas, i.e., instances of those areas populated with baddies that a single excellent player could challenge. Just give a lot less exp and loot, I'm good with that.
(I included Audigy since he asked for the same thing)
You mean like the new Solo PvE zone, Wrothgar? It will work like Hollow city, but as a huge zone, almost compared to Cyro. Including several quest lines, like the MAIN story quest line, with phasing based on your choices that effects YOUR zone.
Wrothgar is a new zone, which is different from:
- Murkmire Group Adventure Zone
Read group content, like Graglorn - quests, story line, new events, abillities, trade skills, dungeons and "raids". Possible new global skills line as well.
- Imperial City Zone
PvE raid encounters in a PvP environment. The "mobs" will not just be the NPC creatures but PvP players who wants to MURDER you!
Also possible new PvP skills and PvP ONLY alliance buffs. (No more PvE free buffs)
Awesome!
Add the justice system on top of that, which effects all players in all of Tamriel.
Plenty of "solo" stuffs to do!
Please note the basic of ESO, from Zenimax (not me)The plan is to make sure we introduce a large variety of activities and types of content in the future. Players shouldn’t expect every new zone we release to be an Adventure Zone at all.
ESO is adding all kinds of content on a regular bases.
The core feature of ESO is to never end. Either with Tamriel or character progression.
Solo PvE Zone: Wrothgar
- Shared by all 3 alliances. In it up north between High Rock and Skyrim. Originally given to the Orcs when they joined Daggerfall
- Orc’s ancestral capital, Orsinium, is in this province in the Black Mountain area.
- The followers of the Code of Malacath are distrustful of the Orc King and his Daggerfall allies as the Bretons and Redguards destroyed Orsinium a while back. Simultaneously, the Orc Sing is sympathic a sect of another cult that wants to destroy the Malacath worshippers.
- You are asked to help to rebuild Orsinium and determine the future of the Orcs there
- Female giant creature added
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bqivTnEteG0
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130275/dragonstar-arena-champion-justice-systems-and-solo-pve-zone-wrothgar
Source:
http://dulfy.net/2014/07/18/eso-quakecon-the-future-of-eso-panel-notes/
Aoife32001 wrote: »Is it confirmed PvP campaign buffs won't pass into PvE in the future? That would be amazing, if so!
This look immense!
PLEASE ZENIMAX - Let pvp and pve players gain equal amounts of champion point exp otherwise you will kill pvp forever!
This look immense!
PLEASE ZENIMAX - Let pvp and pve players gain equal amounts of champion point exp otherwise you will kill pvp forever!
Even if they try it will be hard pvp is very dependent on when you play and how many people you run into, it is also really easily open to exploitation (not like we don't have that in craglorn... hope that is fixed when this rolls out). Right now exp for killing a player is 4x greater then killing a normal mob. I believe I read at the guild summit they said that exp from the imperial city will have a high multiplier (pvp to gain pve grind spots?). I do think some of the pve spots will need to be lowered in exp gain if they want to keep a more consistent 1 hour is aprox 1 champ point.
- This is more of a request, then a question.
When you set the bar for gaining ranks with EXP. Please consider the bar to be higher then today. If each Vet rank goes any faster, it only sets players expectations to get Vet 14, even faster as they do today. (Since exp is gained from several more sources then Veteran points).
Yes, it's true that most players do not "grind" and play in a certain way that gives them 1-2 Vet ranks a day. I am concerned about "easy way" to get toward higher level. To many good MMOs, that had lots of promise, fell on the "easy" trap.
I am looking at the effects by lowering the veteran points needed for Vet 12-14.
Even players who demanded this, since "it took to long", are now the same players who complain about having "nothing to do". As well as too many players, who simply missed to much of the game, since they leveled from it.
If Vet rank 12-14 took a bit longer, Cyrodiil or many other places in Tamriel, may get visits from players who didn't consider that content.....going there to get a vet rank.......to find themselves in "new" content, they did not know about.
Or players in Craglorn, for some reason, claims it's hard to get a group there, would have more players to group with. (My experience of Graglorn today, is that its jammed packed.)
How long did it take the "fast player" to go from Vet 12-14? One evening? 2?
If Vet ranks gets even faster to earn. Players will not easily accept EQ AA / Champion points to be gained "slow", to prevent some players to get them all in just a few months.
ExiledKhallisi wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »Rewarding time played vs skillExiledKhallisi wrote: »Rewarding time played vs skill is a fatal design flaw that will kill the longevity for the game in regards to newer players.
What will happen with the champion system is only the current players will continue playing a ridiculous grind and all new players the come after will quickly realize there's no point in trying to catch up. This is what happened to WoW and the way they corrected the issue was each expansion dumbs the game down even more. Nov 17th will see the death of wow with the game becoming fully moron proof and accessible by anyone at any age.
ZOS think deeper into this idea....why would a new player want to play your game or take part in PvP with players leagues above them in stats/gear
Actually the whole point of the champion system is to balance that problem.
1. There are the hardcore players that devote all their time to the game and feel they should be rewarded for such. The problem is this creates a bigger and bigger gap between the hardcore player and the casual player (vertical progression if you will).
3. The casual player hates the fact they are penalised because they have a life to lead, cant keep up and simply get dominated by hardcore players that rely on greater power rather than greater skill (horizontal progression if you will).
These two camps are diametrically opposed. The solution is to use a tangent curve instead of linear progression.
Y axes = XP (just scale up or down as required)
X axes = Level (angle really....but you can scale level as you like)
It will take an infiite amount of time to hit level 90 allowing people with less time to get to level 85 quickly. There wont be much of a difference between a level 85 and level 90 player (5%). No one can hit 90 anyway.
As you can see progression is reasonably linear through the lower levels (vertical progression). As you reach higher level the curve gets much steeper and requires much more XP to progress (horizontal progression). This stops the runaway condition of vertical progression. This principle can be applied to anything.
So basically the lower level is when you are training and developing your toon (power). As you approach max level that power stabilises and your skills diversify (skill).
This new system will end this game. I'm sorry but it will. I find it hard to explain what I see. People are blinded by endless progression and current players are excited for more stuff to do but my point goes unanswered....
If the champion system has been out a few months now...and I just joined the game...it wouldn't take long for me to realize I can never compete with the top. This is a huge problem. Of course kids who have no life and play 12 hrs+ per day deserve to have a little edge. But this edge WilL be leaps and bounds.
This. Anticipated timeframes vs actual end up being quite different. It's why there were VR12's days after launch.r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »Just mentioning something regarding the "1 hour per champion point" thing: As far as I remember, at release the official thing was "120 hours until lvl 50".
They're doing this primarily to keep people from fading away. There is already a large gap between those that play more or certain content more. To those that do not play as often, everytime they log in, this discrepancy gets larger and larger.Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »
@Wolfenbelle, you're not losing anything. Your current progress will be factored into the new system. I suspect you'll start with a certain number of champion points based on where your character already is.Wolfenbelle wrote: »Since most posters on this thread see the CP system as a positive change, can anyone explain the benefits of this system to me? From my perspective, there are several powerful negatives, but the positives escape me despite having read every post on this thread so far. Although I have others, my two main concerns are these:
1. I don't like the sense that something I've worked hard for over more than six months will be taken away from me, and that what replaces it is just some semi-restricted near endless chase for passives. I've already worked for the millions of XP my characters have earned. Why do I need to start working all over again for something basically already achieved?
2. What should I do about my current characters and where they are in Cadwell's Gold and Silver? Is it worth continuing to try to finish those achievements? My main is vr14 working through Gold and my alt is vr5 working through Silver. If the vr system goes away, what happens to Cadwell's G/S, which exists only to provide content for +50 characters? I also have a level 4 Dragon Knight that I haven't progressed precisely because the impact of the CP system is uncertain.
The CP system will fundamentally change the nature of this game. Maybe it will work out great, but right now I just don't see the positives, so this is the first time I'm thoroughly discouraged to continue playing.
Supposed to be averaged out so you get neither penalized or rewarded for player only one character or playing/not playing alts.Spectrasoul wrote: »Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.
Erm?? except you don't earn XP in the VR levels as I understand it so i'd love to know how they are tracking it
You have always earned exp in VR, as is noticable primarily through the lvling of skills ( you use to be able to lvl skills by opening chests and just by exploring). Also with update 1.5 they are getting rid of VR points and replacing it with EXP (stage 2 of the conversion)
This look immense!
PLEASE ZENIMAX - Let pvp and pve players gain equal amounts of champion point exp otherwise you will kill pvp forever!
Spectrasoul wrote: »Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.
Erm?? except you don't earn XP in the VR levels as I understand it so i'd love to know how they are tracking it
Spectrasoul wrote: »Some more questions, maybe they've been answered but I didn't see..
1. How will this be implemented from the start? Will someone with 3 VR14 characters be in a stronger position than someone who has spend the same amount of time so far on one single VR14?
2. How is it actually calculated in terms of progress to the next point, is it still visible exp bars or is it purely based on time played or something else entirely?
KhajitFurTrader wrote: »25,200 hours of progression?
I bet that some people will attempt to do them all in two months time, tops, only to complain afterwards that there's not enough content.
Just kidding. Great post, thank you!