I'm glad to some changes coming for WW as I am one but have mostly not used the line because in PvE it's so short of a time that it feels like a waste of good hard earned Ult. and in PvP it's outright a handicap....go ahead and transform to WW in Cyrodil see what happens!

My ideas are as follows:

I'd like to see WW ability last ALOT longer, I wouldn't mind seeing a toggle as mentioned.

Why not have a heavy bleed damage with regen. (like Duel Wield) to the Claws either as is or in a morph.

The transform shouldn't be a stun, it's alright if I Ult. before going in but if you do so in battle, you can easily die in those few moments with a good opponent.

Also on a side note; I'd like to see a toll to the humanoid body where the transformations cause stretch marks, tears and bruising on the body much like how Vamps have paled skin with heavy veining.

Thanks for listening,
J.

Werewolves will still suck and not be on par wit hvampires unless:

-Passives work in human form without having to slot the ultimate.
-If Ultimate costs as much as other Ultimates like ..Batswarm
-Better passives that work full time.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

Werewolves will still suck and not be on par wit hvampires unless:

-Passives work in human form without having to slot the ultimate.
-If Ultimate costs as much as other Ultimates like ..Batswarm
-Better passives that work full time.

Yes, the ultimate cost is a problem. They said they're working on that. And I'd say it's debatable how many passives we need to work in human form. We already have the one that increases ult gen when getting attacked.

I'd say the most ww needs for human passives beyond that is EITHER some stealth detection and run/sprint speed to reflect the whole dog thing.

OR a relatively minor stamina passive, for example we could get the 20% max stamina increase in a weakened form. But that would be the conservative option, I'd prefer stealth detection and run speed

However you're missing the one biggest thing about WW that will continue to prevent it from being anything close to good. The transformation stun time. If anyone has ever tried being a werewolf and used the ultimate, you'll know what I'm talking about.

2-3 seconds of sitting there getting beat on, and if you attempt to move around or use any abilities, BAM your bugged and no ww form for you, but THERE GOES ALL YOUR ULTIMATE!!

This stun time needs to be reflected in the ultimate, and there needs to be better compensation for its vulnerability, OR just make the transformation instant as is described in the abilities tooltip.

Until this happens, WW form will continue being a disadvantage rather than an advantage. Most will die before even being able to transform, unless they had the forethought to do it before the fight started.

Found some interesting stuff about werewolves on The Imperial Libraries website.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hircine

"When in beast form, the person's attributes (like strength, speed and endurance) are increased and his/her claws are deadly. The person also has total resistance to disease whether in human form or in beast form. In Iliac Bay, the Lycanthropes turn to beast form once per month, meaning they have to kill once per month. But in Solstheim, during the Bloodmoon, the transformation daily, perhaps due to the presence of Hircine himself."

Think the disease resistance would be a great passive for us werewolves to have for both human and beast form.

desciviib14_ESO wrote: »

I forgot to mention also; I agree with the need for human passives such as increased run speed and stealth detection. A WW would most certainly be able to smell others around him/her. Also the human disease resistance makes alot of sense too but if we have to choose I'd find the stealth detection and run speed more useful. As far as the Roar...I just don't use fear skills really; the last thing I want in battle is for the enemies to run off and to open the battlefield to a larger area and to be out of range...that's just not useful to me personally. I think it would be totally within the lore and balance of gameplay for the Roar to cause some kind of damage and disorient. Of course it couldn't be overpowered but it fits with reality that pain and disorientation accompanies damage to the ear.

Thanks for listening

All I'd like to say here is that I think you undervalue how strong of a cc fear is.
I'd like to point out how essential roar and its fear is to the playstyle (at least the current playstyle) of werewolf.

How all this theoretical brainstorming actually translates into parts of the game like PvP with cc-immunity would have to be tested, but on paper roar strongly plays into your ability to use pounce to its full potential, and shouldn't be neglected, in my opinion.

please fix the devour lol its so useless as a skill to stay in WW form atm...i thought the timer was supposed to be removed months ago and replaced by a "feed once per corpse" ordeal?,,

It is clear some of you will not be happy til you are OP. You want passives that work in human form? You want humans to be outclassed at all times? You want everyone to be forced to become an abomination in order to compete? Really?

Braddass wrote: »

It is clear some of you will not be happy til you are OP. You want passives that work in human form? You want humans to be outclassed at all times? You want everyone to be forced to become an abomination in order to compete? Really?

Not at all, but the way werewolves are now, we're much much weaker than the average human with more cons than pros. Some people's ideas may be OP, but most of us have balance in our best interest.

Ok since they removed my comment, ill write again.... Get WW up to Vampirism, NO LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU IGNORANT ZOS.... dont remove this one just because you are vampire fan....

Considering the Vamp class is permanent it would have been nice to see the Werewolf transformation have a greater time limit. I'm not asking for hours here, but another 20-25% longer would have been nice.
It's not always possible to find anything to feed on ! ! !

They asking for testing, for feedback, they want advice, but they never cared about em. Reported bugs, inballances in beta are still there....

A few thoughts: First, I am glad that there is some attention being paid to the werewolf tree after all these months and countless posts on this forum, but it seems like this is far too little.
The first thing to keep in mind is you are now adding another three active skills to the tree, which means it requires another six skill points to be fully upgraded (plus the countless amount of XP to get them all to maximum level.) Right now I think the werewolf tree already consumes seventeen skill points; combined with the new skills that is twenty-three. That is twenty-three skill points invested for a single ability: an ultimate (since all the passives and active skills can not be used outside of the werewolf form.)
Currently, this ultimate is weaker than even class ultimates such as supernova and standard of might, and it costs almost four times the amount to activate. These class skills are available without any extra effort (whereas werewolf requires finding a rare-spawn mob or finding another werewolf player to bite you) and, yet their use, in every way, from raw damage to survivability, greatly outclasses the werewolf ultimate which requires almost ten times more skill points and (currently triple) soon to be six times the amount of XP gained to maximize its potential. Even with a five set of "savior's hide", which reduces the transformation cost by 33%, and assuming that requiring to use this item set is not a major loss to your character's build (it obviously is, since there are far better five set bonuses in the game), the werewolf transformation is STILL not viable to use compared to every other ultimate I have. That is, your proposed ultimate cost reduction, even if you reduce the baseline cost by a third, is still far too little to make this ability viable. Furthermore, your proposed changes are increasing the cost and effort required to make this ability viable by adding more active skills, mostly. Thus, there is obviously a lot more required to even make this skill tree viable, let alone desirable, beyond cosmetic or role-playing reasons.
Some proposed, rational changes have been said countless times in this thread before, but I feel they need to be repeated so that they are not ignored: the werewolf transformation doesn't last long enough (even if you severely decrease the cost of the ultimate.); the double self-CC caused by the transformation is an extreme disadvantage that needs to be remedied (either through damage and status effect immunity during its duration or its duration needs to be reduced to almost nil); the loss of all ultimate gained while werewolf form was active is something unique to this ultimate and is another massive drawback to the skill; the timer on devour, which was supposed to be removed in an earlier patch makes it impossible to increase the duration of the transformation a significant amount (ie, not nearly long enough, even in best case scenarios, to make the ability viable); devour is broken too easily (from any damage, including dots..It should require a knock-down or interrupt to stop the channel); there is no passive bonus in the skill tree that effects your character outside of human form, but all negative effects are still applicable; and lastly, werewolves have no ability to sneak while in werewolf form.
There are simply far too many draw-backs and an insanely high ultimate/skill point cost for this tree already, and your solution to this is to increase the skill point cost by almost 50% more while ignoring the key issues that people have been repeating over and over again for months. Combining this with the lower viability of stamina builds versus magicka builds, something else people have been complaining about for months and has received some tweaking but is still far from balanced, and it is clear that minor changes are not going to fix this tree. It needs some extreme balance changes and, due to the insanely high cost, the margin for error should be more towards "too powerful" than "balanced."
Some thoughts on the new skills: First, I want to say that all the skills are needed, but I think these active skills should have a far less xp cost to get to morph/max level compared to EVERY other active skills in the game since they can only be used while in werewolf form. It was a painful enough to get pounce and roar to maximum level and the reward for doing so was rather pitiful. Considering you haven't even listed increasing the werewolf transformation timer in the initial post and you're decreasing the amount of stamina we will have available to use these abilities in werewolf form (since you are changing one of the passives to granting a weapon damage bonus instead of stamina bonus) I am somewhat underwhelmed and wary about the viability of these new abilities.

Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
One of the major complaints about werewolf is its survivability. This will help, surely. Morphs could be: increased stamina regen for (x) seconds (similar to green dragon blood); or all damage taken reduced by 10% for (x) seconds. (Extra armor/spell resist is most likely useless for most high level players who will already be near or at the soft-cap in werewolf form.) It should also be noted that since you are decreasing the amount of stamina gain players will be receiving in werewolf form, that at least one of these new abilities should cost magicka. This seems to be the most likely candidate. (I think one other poster mentioned this.)
Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
First, I want to say that I agree with the poster earlier in this thread who said it seemed counter-intuitive to be doing damage with sound (IE, your lungs.) While another poster pointed out that sound can be dangerous, the idea that your lungs can generate those sort of dangerous sound vibrations without any negative effect to one's own body is sort of ridiculous. (The generation of the sound would be more damaging to you than to the target since the oscillations would be largest at the point of creation.) Since werewolves still don't have a bite attack, it seems to me that this ability would work well as such (and you already have the animation for a werewolf bite; the werewolf npcs do it.)
It has been said by a few people in this thread that werewolf could use a taunt for those of us who want to use it while tanking. I couldn't agree more. Hence, I would think it would make more sense to have this ability also force a target to attack you for 12 seconds BASELINE (so that players who want to use werewolf for both dps and tanking are not making a major sacrifice to their DPS build by choosing a tanking morph over a raw damage morph.) IE, the new ability would do damage, knock down and taunt. Morphs could be: 40% armor reduction for 12 seconds; or adds (x) disease damage (or bleed effect over 10 seconds.)
Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.
Considering werewolf had no aoe attack, this is something they badly needed for their repertoire. Morphs could be: Adds a slow and disorient effect for (x) seconds; Increases your stamina regeneration per enemy affected (akin to whirling blades.)

Considering how long winded this post is, I hope it makes Zenimax realize how much the werewolf skill tree needs to be changed to be competitive with skills that have far less a cost to maximize. If they want our skill points, time and effort to mean something then this skill tree needs far more work than they've implied with the initial post. Good luck in doing so; I know that these imbalances are certainly a detriment to my experience with ESO and I can't be the only one whose patience is starting to wear thin.

Edit: I was so encompassed with talking about balance, cost and abilities that I forgot to mention a few cosmetic changes. First, I would agree with several other posters in this thread that the sprinting animation for werewolf does look poor and that running on four legs would look far better. The problem I see with this is that the all four-legs running animation is currently being used for werewolf's roll-dodge and that it would be ambiguous to both the user and attackers (in PVP) whether the player is roll dodging or running. My solution to this would be to use a slightly shorter, more compact version of the pounce animation for roll dodge so that the werewolf jump-dodges. Since the distance, arc and duration of the animation would be different than pounce, there would be far less ambiguity.
Some people have complained that the morphs of the werewolf transform ability do not have visual distinctions. In my experience, they already do: when I was a regular werewolf (which was months ago, so forgive me if my memory isn't serving me) I was brown. When I morphed my ultimate to werewolf berserker, I became black. Every pack-leader werewolf I've seen has been white....
So what cosmetic change did these people want? The color of the eyes? That really seems like something that shouldn't be a priority, even though it is easy to change.

Just logged in, so excited, just couldn't hide it.

Iduyenn wrote: »

stewie_801 wrote: »

Just logged in, so excited, just couldn't hide it.

???

^ thinking the same... these changes arent on PTS nor on Live atm as far as i know

I forgot to add on my last post that werewolf fur patterns need some variations so that the player can change it for some gold sort of like the dyeing station 'but not a overwhelming amount like 6k who would spend that much gold so their werewolf form can look different', because one wolfs fur never looks exactly the same than another wolfs fur. Two this would add a new level of intermission being that you can customize you're werewolf to look better even if that means more scary and monster like sort of like this http://media.photobucket.com/user/heinzkurt/media/1165441340_werewolf.jpg.html?filters[term]=werewolf&filters[primary]=images&sort=1&o=54 or more realistic sort of like this http://photonatureblog.com/2011/09/13/wolf-at-rest/. And as we have seen in the dyeing station it add more things for players to do and adds more RP content for the werewolf's and the werewolf's don't have much content for RP.