Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Imp666

Suggested changes need to be more specific. As they are currently, it is impossible to have an opinion about them. They could be great or they could be junk, but it is impossible to know until we see some actual numbers.

granty2008cyb16_ESO

Cyrdemaceb17_ESO wrote: »

Am I missing something? I like the changes but all I see is less ultimate cost NOT more time being a WW.
Added the long Devour timer (20 sec as stated), WW is still subpar to vampire in PvP. 40 sec of fun.

agree need more time as ww that's why i quit this skill line should be able to stay in this form for as long as you want dont see a vampire transforming into a bat when they fight and then changing back

ArconSeptim

Well first thing which will balance WW with Vampire is making the transformation completely not ultimate based.

Use your creativity and imagination and make something like:

-while you are in human form if you do x amount of physical damage once per real life day you get chance of transformation to WW for let's say for 60 min or so(for the first transformation!!), and each time you eat corpses you extend your duration in WW form but 25%, 50% and 75% of it's first duration in one day, so this means you can basically feed 3 times after first feeding.(calculate the whole possible duration in WW form)! This does not have to be like that it's just example,

-next thing is please remove the poison weakness, and add passsive which grants a 100% resistance to all diseases.Fighters guild skills and pasives are enough for countering WWs, also you could change some passives in fighters guild if you see this last thing too much OP which I think is not.

-logically passives should drastically increase damage, stamina and health( make like 3 passive skills 50 increase per each, feeding which exstends duration of the WW form should also restore x amount of health and finally make a ultimate for WW ,something like call of wolf pack, which would be something like 3 wolfs summoned and aiding youfor x amount of time.

-i forgot to mention increasing armor and spell resistance by x amount ! thats important also!
make more stamina and health regeneration as it should be, make him run some 30% faster than now

This is real example how to make it more balanced and realistic compared to Vamps(make them the Vampire Lord transformation option just to stop them whining).Even that would be too much as they have the pale skin color, werewolfs don't have any body marks which is nice ?.
If there is someone who thinks this is too much, just look the fighters guild skill line there is plenty things which could get a buff to counter WWs.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Poison weakness isn't even a big deal. Not nearly as bad as fire weakness. And that 1hr transform addition would be pretty pointless, especially since they should be making it a toggle for the WW to be transformed however long they wish. Not only that having a random transformation like that, and only once per day, would just be flat out annoying.

phreatophile

A very tiny baby step in the right direction.

They would probably be better off gutting the current system and design philosophy for werewolves. What they have now is an abject failure.

Most anything would be better than it is right now. Right now as an ultimate, (It shouldn't be an ultimate) it SHOULD make you MUCH more powerful for a short time. Instead it makes you an easy target.

An enemy should stain their skivies when you transform, not laugh.

Soulcollectas

I hope Infectious Claws does the same damage out put as bat swarm then its a win we can all get on the pain train.

Soulcollectas

I would also agree that there is not enough time in ww form PvP is fast paced

ExiledKhallisi

Let the passives work while in human form without having to slot the ultimate.

jgc471980

Suggestions:

1: As I said in earlier post we need the Skin fixed for the different Werewolfs

Pack Alpha - White with Yellow Eyes
Berserker - Black Skin with Red eyes

2: Night time or 7 days of the month at night should be in werewolf form if we want all the time as a Passive Bonus for Lunar etc etc

3: Redo Pounce to a charge Skill instead of pouncing you Charge your opponent and Knock them down

4: While in Human Form perhaps some passives

- Allow Extra + 20/30 Points for health Recovery as a Passive (Werewolves Heal Fast)
- +10-15 to Weapon Damage (due to increased Stength from the W/W Blood)

ExiledKhallisi

Why cant you just tell us when this will be implemented? What is the uneeded suspense for?

Shagreth

@ZOS_GinaBruno First of all, a big thanks to you awesome CM's for relaying our feedback to the devs, and another one to the devs for working so hard. Your hard work is really appreciated.

Now, these seem like awesome changes, and I suggest the following:

1) Have a passive that gives something to the human form, for flavor if anything, something small like 5% HP & Stamina recovery and 5% sprint speed (since werewolves are renowned for their vigor even when not transformed).

2) Would be awesome if werewolves dropped on all four while sprinting.

3) While transformed, give us some form of Life Detection (maybe with a morph?) which let's us see stealthed players. Someone tries to pounce on the ultimate hunter and succeeds? Preposterous!

4) Yellow eyes. I think it would be a nice touch if you added yellow eyes with a slight glow when not in werewolf form.

That is all. I'll die a happy puppy if any of this is considered. Have a good one!

Braddass

Arsenic_Touch wrote: »

Still doesn't address the lack of any useful passives for non transformed werewolves. That's one of the biggest problems people have, why is it constantly ignored?

If the passives are good for non transformed weres, then they will always have an advantage over humans. That would mean that everyone would have to be a were to keep up.

Braddass

ArconSeptim wrote: »

Well first thing which will balance WW with Vampire is making the transformation completely not ultimate based.

I think that is an unreasonable expectation. They do NOT need to balance WW with Vamp. Vamps are still not balanced and will probably need to be tweaked further. In addition, you have to acknowledge that poison is not as prevalent as fire.

All they need to do is make sure the pros of being a WW are equal to the cons.

Hypertionb14_ESO

cant wait for this to be implemented, and still prove useless due to lack of equality in Stamina Builds Vs Magicka Builds..


to be fair tho the WW changes are LONG overdue.

Iago

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our team has been paying attention to the feedback you’re sharing about the werewolf skill line, and we’re ready to tell you about some of the changes we’re considering to improve the gameplay experience for all you followers of Hircine out there. We’re interested in seeing what you think!

First off, we’re planning to reduce the cost of transforming into a werewolf. The current costs feel too high, and we want you to be able to transform more frequently. We’ve also fixed a bug that prevented you from using the CC Break ability in werewolf form.

We want to make a few changes to damage scaling and the Savage Strength passive that will give you a little more burst potential and allow your gear upgrades to affect damage output in a more meaningful way. Savage Strength will offer a flat increase to power instead of stacking multiple times. The bonus is a bit lower to balance the change out, but overall you’ll have more ability to deal burst damage. We want light and heavy attacks to additionally scale off of weapon power (instead of just maximum stamina), and for Pounce and its morphs to scale off of weapon power instead of spell power.

Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

• Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.
• Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
• Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

That all sounds great but the WW transformation should not be an ultimate it shoukd be a toggleable ability and if it remains an ulti then by all means transformations sgould last much much longer than they do.

NaturesCorruption

Well, I have a few ideas for WereWolf, maybe they are good or not, I will let you decide and maybe Zeni will look favorably at them;

1) Devour used to have a cooldown (when it finished its animation), this existed back prior when the Devour Bug existed (spam devour while moving around = infinite time). There was a patch note that said it REMOVED the Devour cooldown but limited ONE Devour per corpse, this was good. The cooldown has reappeared, bug or intended? Removing the cooldown again would help.

2) Make it where if you forcefully shift back to your original self, whatever % the Werewolf Duration bar was at, is how much % Ultimate you get back from the cost of the transformation. AKA I end my transformation with 30% Duration left, If my WereWolf Ult cost me 600, I would get 180 Ultimate back. This would make situational transformations where you NEED that burst, more doable.

3) If you cannot make WereWolf toggleable by default, use Step 2 with what I have here... Your Duration will trickle down only while in combat and for a short time after. When the 'short time after' ends, you can stay in form indefinitely until you enter combat and cause your Duration to resume ticking down or you end it manually, causing #2 to kick in, reimbursing you for % Remaining as Ult.

felinith66

In City of Heroes, there was an ability for Invulnerable Tankers called Unstoppable that literally made them unstoppable for 2 minutes. 100% resistance to everything, energy and health regen through the roof, attack speed/power increase, CC immunity. The drawback was that after 2 minutes, you lose about half your health and all of your energy. It also had a long cooldown. About 5 minutes if I remember correctly.

Why not do something like this for WW? For 2 minutes you become this unstoppable killing machine, then when the 2 minutes are up, you lose all your magicka and stamina? If they want the transformation to use ultimate then fine, but make it so you generate ultimate not only when using your skills, but also when being attacked. Like the Hulk. You attack him, he gets angry and he transforms.

Regarding passives in human form, people have to remember that being a vamp has drawbacks, like fire weakness and really slow health regen. If they give WW passives in human form, they're going to have to nerf something else in human form. Maybe really slow magica regen equal to vamps' health regen?

jgc471980

Shagreth wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno First of all, a big thanks to you awesome CM's for relaying our feedback to the devs, and another one to the devs for working so hard. Your hard work is really appreciated.


2) Would be awesome if werewolves dropped on all four while sprinting.


That is all. I'll die a happy puppy if any of this is considered. Have a good one!

OMG YES !!!!!!

crydo

There really needs to be a change in some way that either allows the duration of being in werewolf form to last longer (I mean a lot longer) or to make it toggleable

Iago

crydo wrote: »

There really needs to be a change in some way that either allows the duration of being in werewolf form to last longer (I mean a lot longer) or to make it toggleable

I agree the only reason I even bother to transform is to bite other people who want to try WW out.

Castielle

Iago wrote: »

crydo wrote: »

There really needs to be a change in some way that either allows the duration of being in werewolf form to last longer (I mean a lot longer) or to make it toggleable

I agree the only reason I even bother to transform is to bite other people who want to try WW out.

I also agree. You have to build you're entire character around WW just to get some use out of it, while Vampires get benefits just from being one. I'd like to see a toggle. I don't think that's unfair as you lose access to all your other skills while being one. Maybe make it have a 30 minute cooldown if you change back. Or maybe make it so you can only be a Werewolf like an hour or 2 a day.

Cas

ASpaceTurkey

The only problem I can see if they want to keep WW an Ultimate, is that when we change back to Human Form, we cannot keep the Ultimate we gained while in Wolf Form.

Iduyenn

But for the love of Hircine... Don`t allow player to use just ww passives all the time not caring for beastform.
To be a werewolf should mean something, not only a passive improvement for someone.

I liked the idea from earlyer (combat --> Beastform), but i modyfied it: It`s just a raw idea...

By using too much stamina or too much magicka you are forced to transform in to beastform. If you don`t transform, you get the buff/debuff "unstable" (Critical hit change increased by 2% every second/Incoming dmg increased by 2% every second).
So there comes the moment you want to transform to beastform or get onehitted by a cookie.
By fighting in beastform (beeing in combat) you stack your beastform up and gain a bonus (up to x%)(Staminaregeneration, maximal stamina, weaponpower are increased by x%). But the downside: every time you attack, you gain also vulnerability (incoming dmg increased by x% every x seconds)

Now to allow a "tanky" spec and to avoid the vulnerability it would need an ultimate or a spell (something like magelight) ---> Instead of gaining offensive boni, you get defensive boni using your attacks (but you loose the dmg bonus).=> More armor, more resistance and more health (and perhaps more aggro?).

You will want to switch from time to time from offensive to deffensive. So you can decrease your vulnerability. If you stay to long, you will loose all the dmg boni and gain tankboni (unless you switch earlyer and go for dmg again).
Something like this:

Tank <~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o+++++++++++++++> DD

If you fail to manage: you transform back to human form with a penalty. (You can avoid this by toggle your transformation back by yourself)

In human form something similar:

If you were forced to change back to human form, you have a debuff on all your attributes for x minutes. (But you can reenter beastform anytime and loose the bonus?!).

If you use magicka (heal) abilities you gain the following passive bonus: For every heal- or protection spell you gain the buff "stable"... Your dmg will be decreased and your healing increased. If reached the bottom: You will transform)(so... one or two offensive attacks from time to time would be wise, if you don`t want to transform...)

If you use stamina (damage) abilities you gain the following passive bonus: for every hit you gain more rage and the buff "unstable".

So again: You can try to stay in human form during a full fight, by using different ressources.

If you fail, you will be forced to transform with a penalty

<~~~~~~~~~~~~~~o+++++++++++++++>

I know... a bit to complex to manage/balance...
To much rage: you make "plopp"... if too defensive you make "plopp". But what ever role you choose, you will try to go to the limit. If you fail to control yourself, you get a debuff...

dont take me to serious... just some weard ideas

Madval

Fabulous !

But the 2sec transform = 2sec stun is too long...
Perhaps you need to keep that to 1sec or ok for 2 sec but an AoE stun.
Perfect in PVE or PVP, everyone ennemies [and why not friendly] around you is stun when you transform (seems logic btw, look at someone transform in a werewolve I think you'll paralyze during few seconds ) HOW THE HORROR !
Or a fear, everyone around you seeing your transform flee in random position for 2 sec. Perfect for PVP too

In a pvp fight it can be interesting and a double edge sword, you can transform in fight stunning you and your ennemies around you, but someone at a better/safe distance can Arrow or Magical shoot you.

Actually as someone says, the transform animation is death sentence in PVP and even sometimes PVE.

Chrlynsch

Madval wrote: »

Fabulous !

But the 2sec transform = 2sec stun is too long...
Perhaps you need to keep that to 1sec or ok for 2 sec but an AoE stun.
Perfect in PVE or PVP, everyone ennemies [and why not friendly] around you is stun when you transform (seems logic btw, look at someone transform in a werewolve I think you'll paralyze during few seconds ) HOW THE HORROR !
Or a fear, everyone around you seeing your transform flee in random position for 2 sec. Perfect for PVP too

In a pvp fight it can be interesting and a double edge sword, you can transform in fight stunning you and your ennemies around you, but someone at a better/safe distance can Arrow or Magical shoot you.

Actually as someone says, the transform animation is death sentence in PVP and even sometimes PVE.

How about increase the transformation cast time to 5 sec as a level one werewolf. But every level you gain as a Werewolf you slowly start to master transform bringing it down .5 sec with each level gained, when you reach level 10 werewolf you are a master of the shift and you will barely miss a step.

On another note, I'd like to see sneak or prowling, prowling costs magica and detects enemies in a 15 area (masters of the hunt remember) this stops your ww timer.

Please give us the all fours running animation please!

biodragon

What about time and its management?
I mean the most changes are in good. But changing only ultimate cost is not enough.

For example you could start with low time (eg. depending from current Ultimate points) and then you could "buy" time by eating things but in unlimited way (with no upper time limit or very high (like all in game day)).

I just imagined:

1. I see Werewolf who running to me
2. Then he transforms to human
3. Then he going to kill something
4. I'm increasing distance
5. He start running to me again
6. Repeat from point 2
That is funny, isn't ? Not for that werewolf.
If cost will be low and time short and deserted area this situation can happen.

(Sorry for my English)

Targolak

Nice changes, I'm looking forward to the self-heal and AoE damage ability - and of course the ability to break CC.

But, well, I'll have to jump on the ol' bandwagon of cries of "make werewolf toggleable like Sorcerers' Overload". As I've said before in a /feedback, having it toggleable would make werewolves excellent battlefield scouts in Cyrodiil at the expense of the ability to sneak.

haidlir1983

jgc471980 wrote: »

Shagreth wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno First of all, a big thanks to you awesome CM's for relaying our feedback to the devs, and another one to the devs for working so hard. Your hard work is really appreciated.


2) Would be awesome if werewolves dropped on all four while sprinting.


That is all. I'll die a happy puppy if any of this is considered. Have a good one!

OMG YES !!!!!!

GOD YES X 100

I like were this is going, i dont have problem with WW transf being a Ult, but i would love to see it as a toggle like "Overload" and if is posible some Human form passives please, perhaps just a % of the passives in WW form, after all WW are stronger than humans even in Not-WW form but even more in WW form

Enesse

@ZOS_GinaBruno Thank you so much for the update! While it may only be a small step so far, we're very excited and grateful for it.

In response to the post:
Reduced transformation cost is better, it should help for now, or until future changes are made. I didn't know that our inability to break free from CC was a bug, but I'm glad it's getting fixed. The change to Savage Strength is alright. The switch from attack power being based off of stamina to weapon power is interesting, so does higher stamina not mean as much to werewolves now? (Other than the obvious cost of our WW skills)
The 3 new skills themselves make me a very happy pup, can't wait to see the morphs too.

Some personal suggestions:

-Invulnerability to knockbacks/CC during, and only during the transformation.(Unless it's not too OP to be immune to knockbacks caused by anything besides silver/poison)

-Spell resist and defense especially should be a big deal for werewolves, after reading the lorebook, "The Werewolf's Hide." It described a werewolf's coat as it's greatest gift, deflecting weapons and keeping it safe from harm so long as they groom it.

-We need the option of being in wolf form longer. Many of us want the experience of running in packs across Cyrodiil, and we'd need more than a 30-60 second timer for that. (Even if the cost is reduced.) This could be achieved through a toggle-able form, or something, anything else. Lycanthropy is supposed to be half of what we are, not just a short burst.

-Give us the ability to feed on humanoid and animal corpses(both of which could heal us slightly per feeding), but not on undead/vampire corpses. It was pretty specific about that in Skyrim. Maybe also make it so that vampires can't feed off of werewolves as well, unless that's too much.

-Passives. Please, please make it so our passives affect us in humanoid form. They don't have to be as strong as they get while in wolf form, but just a fraction is better than nothing. (Silver and poison do still really sting in humanoid form, after all.)

-Appearance. Just a little something like claw-like fingernails or yellowish eyes in humanoid form would be great. For werewolf form, I still strongly believe that our fur should match our hair color. Other options being: different werewolf "skins" that we can choose from. I'm also for changing the Berserker morph to black fur.

-Appearance#2. Subtle differences in male/female features. As a girl, it kind of creeps me out when I transform and suddenly gain a 6 pack and huge muscles. I'm a werewolf, not a weregorilla, right? Even real female wolves have slightly more feminine features, like softer facial features and sleeker bodies.

-Lunar effects. Werewolves are hugely based around moonlight. Vampires get passive buffs during nighttime, why shouldn't we? Or at least a passive buff when the moons are full. I liked someone else's idea about a random transformation during a certain time of the lunar cycle that could get you in trouble with the justice system

Prothwata wrote: »

On another note, I'd like to see sneak or prowling, prowling costs magica and detects enemies in a 15 area (masters of the hunt remember) this stops your ww timer.

I was going to suggest a passive or skill, but this idea sounds great. It could work the same way sneaking does-slowly depleting magicka(instead of stamina) when you move, with the ability to see stealthed enemies nearby. We do need a lot more emphasis on how we're Hircine's "masters of the hunt."

And lastly, for the love of Hircine, please change the running animation to running on all fours.

Taz

I like all the changes except for....

Having the ultimate cost less.

In my opinion, the werewolf ultimate should reflect a werewolf's nature, and become almost a reverse-ultimate. So it is indeed an ultimate skill that you can toggle at will, but the more you fight, the more ultimate you gain, and if you don't transform before your ultimate reaches the max, you're forced to transform for a minute or so (but transforming before brings your ultimate back to base).

That way you actually feel like a werewolf, like a beast clawing at the surface at any second as you enter the heat of battle. Just as vampires have to feed to retain their 'humanity', so too do werewolves have to hunt as a beast to retain theirs.

It adds interesting new strategies for playing a werewolf, especially if they're flagged on transformation within the Justice System.