Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Iduyenn

Well I already stated, that the ideas here are great. Hopefully there will be some comments from the comm-managers or the devs, that they read this post and give some thought to the ideas. Just a little encouragement to be even more creative…

I think 100% here would love some more time in ww form (not only some seconds…). 95% would love to see a toggle- permanent- shape-change. (Something like Magelight… perhaps it would give room for a new ultimate due to the fact, that this ability could be placed on the normal skillbar 1-5.
Perhaps you could even make a forumvote…. (without obligations on your side…)

We also mentioned new armorsets and other stuff to balance the WW. And that there should be some mechanics to avoid people to choose ww, because “it`s an obligation” for staminabuilds, even if you will never transform. Perhaps there should even be a forced transformation. A serious penalty like we already have one… (and wit p1.4 will get another with the justice system ?!?)

Now, I was thinking about our passives: I think we need here some more good ideas. The problem: They all count only in beastform and aren`t strong enough to make an impact on gameplay very much. (Considered the time we actually can play with low stress in WW form and benefact from our passives, is zero, njet, nada)
How about some more/shared passives (advantages or disadvantages for both forms?)

I mean; personally I like it, if you get more passives in beastform. So you always aim to transform into a WW. This is clearly the stronger side. But some things make even sense in human form.
The more time we can stay in WW shape, the less we need human passives…

Call of the Pack: Allows allies to ramain in Werewolf form for 3%/5% longer. Affects up to five targets and stacks up to five times

This passive could be a key to ensure longer time in ww-form during group play. But this would not solve the problem for soloplayer.
Even stacked up to 25% this bonus isn`t enough. (roughly 10 seconds and no impact on devour)
For example in PVP: Even if the game is designed to have short, crazy battles. Keep defenders and attackers need to have stamina and power to overcome the zerg battles between entering or defending a keep. A fight has easily 10 minutes and you need to be in constant movement.
You can`t take to much time to devour, because of siegeweapons and other obstacles.
A WW player who need to to devour has a huge, huge disadvantage in such a fast battle.

I would change this to additional stamina and live for all WW in beastform (bonus, if other WW are present).

Perhaps someone has some better ideas…

Savage strength: Increase max stamina by 3%/5% for each kill. Effect stacks up to five times.

The problem is, this might work in PVE trashmobs, but in PVP or bosses we need survivability or dmg first to even kill someone. Not afterwards.
Perhaps this could be altered to: “increase maximal stamina for each critical hit” in WW form.

Blood Rage (With Werewolf transform ultimate slotted) Generates 2/5 Ultimate every 3 seconds by taking damage. Player must be in humanoid form.

The problem is, that we are not tanky enough. Most of the WW player will use medium armor (even more with damage scaling trough weaponpower, stamina….).
Runspeed would make more sence… Especially, when the time in WW form will be much longer. And this should be for both shapes…

Pursuit (While in werewolf Form): Increases Stamina by 10%/20%

Something very nice. We need the %age, because you will implement dmg-scaling with weaponpower.
I understand, that you can`t simply give this passive to a player in human form. This would exactly give the need to be a werewolf as a stamina user.
But something entirely different could be implemented for human form: “Increases detection range” for example.

Devour: (While in Werewolf Form): Can devour humanoid corpses to earn more time in werewolf form

I have to say, I like the mechanic, but during the short time in fight, you don’t have realy time to eat some fallen enemys. Especially, when the enemys still kicking are raining hell on you…
BUT: This could work, if we can stack this bonus. (For example: If I know I am going to Cyrodiil, I have to hunt first in the forest, to gain enough time in wolfform (stackable up to two hours).
It would make sense to first go hunting= gathering strength. To gain additional time und small bonuses (like healing, more survivability for x seconds) devour would still make sense to use in normal combat…

We need more, deeper insight and thoughts to this. For example the justice system. How will the siege-guardians from our faction not slaughter us (while we defend a keep?)
Either way, this means, we could not transform near a keep. Considering the fact, that very battles are fought near keeps, this is awful.

Perhaps some of you have nice ideas for better passives…

Kypho

So... no more bone left to throw zos?...

SLy_Kyti

Gina, Gina, Gina...come back to us Gina....tell us you've read the twenty-odd pages (as I have) and "may" incorporate some of our suggestions in your planned update.

We werewolves appreciate the attention and development we have asked for since pre-launch. We do. The forums are not full of posts about OP werewolves for a reason. It's vamp this and vamp that. Finally having parity, or a semblance of equality has been one hope that kept me furry. I cannot give my free bite to anyone in zone at this point. I get laughed at in chat, and no takers. We are a joke to many that play and that, unfortunately, is the result of bad game mechanics.

Your "proposed" changes that I assume are already a done deal do NOT address the real, or operational, problems encountered while either in Ww form or transforming from it, nor the lack of meaningful passives.After reading all these pages and being a WW since launch please allow me to post the Cliff's Notes version:

* Transformation takes too long.Both into & out of. * Transform into human leaves said human extremely vulnerable, during it. Extremely. * Transform into human removes all Ultimate gained whilst in Ww form. Bad.Very bad. * Ww form is too short in duration. Even with Devour and all passives. * Passives are not meaningful or useable in group, PvP or mob battles.No stun, no AoE, no self-heal, little synergy for others. (Noted: self-heal is planned). * Requested possible Passives that prolong while human are- increased stamina or attributes, increased regen, increased detection (hello! Sniffing dog here!), armor buff, strength buff as in increased damage or crit chance. Vamps have a postive passive/Ww have only a negative passive. * Active abilities requested are- increased run speed, detection, stun on Pounce, Fear doing damage over time, Adding strength to group (synergy), Stamina and Heath or regen increased.(noted: proposed change to scale damage to equipment used, not spell power)

I have found that the Class/Ability of Werewolf suffers from a lack of direction and vision. To make one relevant is to address the needs of those that play a Ww and also those that purchased the game in hopes of doing so. Regular "we hear you" assurances and inclusion in future patches will greatly assure your Ww player base. Please consider an incremental patch to address the most egregious problems/bugs. Thanks for reading and making a fun product!

You are reading this right?

jgc471980

since we have been speaking about devour please do take note this is STILL bugged, it says the cool down was removed and once per corpse can be used but this is not my experience over the last 27 days since i started playing again seems to be every 2/3 corpses i can devour ,

also please make devour a FINISHING move

i.e when target is only 10% health Devour lights up and can be used this will then add time to devour please almost like a lunging attack that finishes off the mob and adds time

demonlkojipub19_ESO

SLy_Kyti wrote: »

Gina, Gina, Gina...come back to us Gina....tell us you've read the twenty-odd pages (as I have) and "may" incorporate some of our suggestions in your planned update.

We werewolves appreciate the attention and development we have asked for since pre-launch. We do. The forums are not full of posts about OP werewolves for a reason. It's vamp this and vamp that. Finally having parity, or a semblance of equality has been one hope that kept me furry. I cannot give my free bite to anyone in zone at this point. I get laughed at in chat, and no takers. We are a joke to many that play and that, unfortunately, is the result of bad game mechanics.

Your "proposed" changes that I assume are already a done deal do NOT address the real, or operational, problems encountered while either in Ww form or transforming from it, nor the lack of meaningful passives.After reading all these pages and being a WW since launch please allow me to post the Cliff's Notes version:

* Transformation takes too long.Both into & out of. * Transform into human leaves said human extremely vulnerable, during it. Extremely. * Transform into human removes all Ultimate gained whilst in Ww form. Bad.Very bad. * Ww form is too short in duration. Even with Devour and all passives. * Passives are not meaningful or useable in group, PvP or mob battles.No stun, no AoE, no self-heal, little synergy for others. (Noted: self-heal is planned). * Requested possible Passives that prolong while human are- increased stamina or attributes, increased regen, increased detection (hello! Sniffing dog here!), armor buff, strength buff as in increased damage or crit chance. Vamps have a postive passive/Ww have only a negative passive. * Active abilities requested are- increased run speed, detection, stun on Pounce, Fear doing damage over time, Adding strength to group (synergy), Stamina and Heath or regen increased.(noted: proposed change to scale damage to equipment used, not spell power)

I have found that the Class/Ability of Werewolf suffers from a lack of direction and vision. To make one relevant is to address the needs of those that play a Ww and also those that purchased the game in hopes of doing so. Regular "we hear you" assurances and inclusion in future patches will greatly assure your Ww player base. Please consider an incremental patch to address the most egregious problems/bugs. Thanks for reading and making a fun product!

You are reading this right?

Yes, the "proposed" changes are as "proposed" as the provisioning revamp "suggestions" and out of all the feedback given in that thread, all they had to say was "we are going to go ahead with the revamp as planned"

They'll do the same for this. Werewolf will still be whatever as long as werewolves cant just be werewolves without the crappy time restriction.

They're reading it tho, they read everything..

Kypho

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

SLy_Kyti wrote: »

Gina, Gina, Gina...come back to us Gina....tell us you've read the twenty-odd pages (as I have) and "may" incorporate some of our suggestions in your planned update.

We werewolves appreciate the attention and development we have asked for since pre-launch. We do. The forums are not full of posts about OP werewolves for a reason. It's vamp this and vamp that. Finally having parity, or a semblance of equality has been one hope that kept me furry. I cannot give my free bite to anyone in zone at this point. I get laughed at in chat, and no takers. We are a joke to many that play and that, unfortunately, is the result of bad game mechanics.

Your "proposed" changes that I assume are already a done deal do NOT address the real, or operational, problems encountered while either in Ww form or transforming from it, nor the lack of meaningful passives.After reading all these pages and being a WW since launch please allow me to post the Cliff's Notes version:

* Transformation takes too long.Both into & out of. * Transform into human leaves said human extremely vulnerable, during it. Extremely. * Transform into human removes all Ultimate gained whilst in Ww form. Bad.Very bad. * Ww form is too short in duration. Even with Devour and all passives. * Passives are not meaningful or useable in group, PvP or mob battles.No stun, no AoE, no self-heal, little synergy for others. (Noted: self-heal is planned). * Requested possible Passives that prolong while human are- increased stamina or attributes, increased regen, increased detection (hello! Sniffing dog here!), armor buff, strength buff as in increased damage or crit chance. Vamps have a postive passive/Ww have only a negative passive. * Active abilities requested are- increased run speed, detection, stun on Pounce, Fear doing damage over time, Adding strength to group (synergy), Stamina and Heath or regen increased.(noted: proposed change to scale damage to equipment used, not spell power)

I have found that the Class/Ability of Werewolf suffers from a lack of direction and vision. To make one relevant is to address the needs of those that play a Ww and also those that purchased the game in hopes of doing so. Regular "we hear you" assurances and inclusion in future patches will greatly assure your Ww player base. Please consider an incremental patch to address the most egregious problems/bugs. Thanks for reading and making a fun product!

You are reading this right?

Yes, the "proposed" changes are as "proposed" as the provisioning revamp "suggestions" and out of all the feedback given in that thread, all they had to say was "we are going to go ahead with the revamp as planned"

They'll do the same for this. Werewolf will still be whatever as long as werewolves cant just be werewolves without the crappy time restriction.

They're reading it tho, they read everything..

They do, just dont give a s...
They failing/failed to get NB on pair with DK and OPlars, why shall i belive, they can fix WW so it will be good as Vampire? You dont want it to be so good? why the hell not?
BALLANCE ZOS.

Lord Stark

So are we to expect any werewolf changes anytime soon?

timidobserver

ZOS you should QA your WW changes against the following questions. Make sure the answer to both is yes.

1.Do the changes make WW viable, useful, and desirable to a trials group, pvp group, dungeon group, dragon star arena groups, as well as any other endgame activities?

2. Do the changes benefit a player filling the role of tank and/or dps.

Davadin

Asia_Skyly wrote: »

One of the big drawbacks I don't see resolved here is the fact that you are affected by the Werewolf trait while in your race form, but you are not granted any of the benefits. You can be dealth with using silver shards and you are impacted by poison, but you do not get a great stamina regeneration on your native race form. I understand how this is logical, to a point, and how it makes it different from vampirism, but this gives vampirism a huge advantage. Finally, you have to resolve the issue of losing your ultimate when you lose your transformation, that was a huge drawback. It is possible that the lower cost will make for it, but personally I would have liked an answer to the two issues I listed here.

Yes, FFS

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

Ok ZOS, it has been almost two weeks. There have, again, been many great inputs to these updates to Werewolf. So can we please hear something from ZOS on the direction they will take? And please take into consideration the inputs here about the areas you did not mention, ie; changes to time in werewolf form, passives while in racial form, and the fact we loose our Ultimate damage capability with Transformation slotted (unless you change this to be similar to Sorcerer Overload, which many of us would be happy with).

Kypho

5k gold that they doesnt even care? And they wont make it so good like vampirism? anyone want to bet?

alex33x

Werewolf Toggle... nuff said.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Also, all attacks in werewolf form should ignore 90% of blocking mitigation.

Oronell

Excited to see this but PLEASE allow for some type of passive to work while in human form. We want to feel like we are Werewolves all of the time not just when the opportunity arises. I would settle for a simple increase in movement speed. I really felt unique when that bug was making us "perma-run", I remember how cool it felt when I first discovered it, "I'm faster than normal because I'm a Werewolf!" I boasted....only to find out it wasn't intentional.

jvh808

Personally, I love werewolf lore in almost every culture it is mentioned in and especially those which also involve vampires. There is 1 aspect of a wolf that I have not seen made mention and I think it would solve most of the balance issues between Vamp and WW. Since vampires receive the sneak passive bonuses, why shouldn't the werewolf have a passive bonus that would counter it? A passive which is active as long as Werewolf is the active ultimate slot AND while in form would be the easiest and makes the most sense to me. My idea for this passive is:

Heightened Senses - While slotted and in humanoid form stealth detection is increased by 1.5 yards. Also, reduces the damage taken from a stealthed enemy by 15%. While in werewolf form however, these bonuses should at the very least be doubled. I say they should double at least due to the short amount of time we have while actually in form.

Thanks for your time.

timidobserver

Just a thought.

Werewolves, even in human form, should innately excel at detecting and tracking hidden enemies, as the person above me outlined in more detail.

Chuggernaut

timidobserver wrote: »

Just a thought.

Werewolves, even in human form, should innately excel at detecting and tracking hidden enemies, as the person above me outlined in more detail.

I don't know the ES lore on ww, but you would think so. Kind of like Wolverine, heightened senses and improved healing.

Kre

here's a question, will these new abilities be able to be used outside of WW form and will any passives be available around the clock, not just in WW form? you know like it is for vampires?

Kre

Preyfar wrote: »

Fellwitch wrote: »

I think the passives on the vampire are extremely powerful compared to the ultimate generation on werewolf. It is still pretty lackluster.

I think a passive that would make more sense would be a slightly increased run speed. Like "Hircine's Flight" which gives you a minor increase to run speed (2/4/6?) given wolves being generally swift. Or even an increase to stamina or stamina regen.

yes the stam and mag regen is what draws me to the vamp, I would much rather be a WW but as a nightblade the bonus passives to run speed while sneaking and stam regen, well its hard not to be one. perhaps a Stam/HP regen passive buff for WW's is in order, and Like the above gentlemen, a reg run speed passive. this way player classes will get some actual use for being a WW, say Tanks for example with the HP regen buff, im sure that would be helpful, or even and armor bonus to being a WW

draeganb16_ESO

A lot of suggestions as been made since this post as been made, I didn't had the courage to read them all, sorry for that.

Since Morrowind, I've always played as a werewolf. All werewolf players know that the curse is a gift but some forget that it's also a...curse. In my opinion, a toggable transformation would be great but against the "spirit" of that curse.

The wereform is a state that you could only be reached if you get enough rage (ultimate). That "rage" should be maintained by the fact that you fight (take damages/hit foes). As long as you fight, you keep your fur. No more foes, no more form. Don't forget that you are a bloodlust beast !

In a nutshell :
*Activating your ultimate (werewolf form) would be possible over a certain value (ex : 300 ultimate)
*To maintain you form, your ultimate will be drained.
*Taking damages or hitting foes will give you precious ultimate points to maintain your form

For exemple : You activate at 500 ultimates and it drains 10 points per seconds, if you do nothing, you'll last 50 seconds. But taking damages and hitting everybody like a crazy wolf will feed your bloodlust and when everybody is dead, you calm down.
So Devour could give ultimates and health/stamina instead of "time", everybody is happy !

I hope this idea will balance the werewolf at it should really be, as long there is blood, there is fur... The basic idea of the werewolf was in the spirit but not very well applied

Other ideas like a skin for the berzerker and the "all four paw sprint" would be great ! Back to Solstheim!
A good idea too would be to give the "Pack leader morph" a buff that give max health/stamina to all tranformed allied (but not to himself)

Thanks for reading me Hircine's followers

Oronell

jvh808 wrote: »

Personally, I love werewolf lore in almost every culture it is mentioned in and especially those which also involve vampires. There is 1 aspect of a wolf that I have not seen made mention and I think it would solve most of the balance issues between Vamp and WW. Since vampires receive the sneak passive bonuses, why shouldn't the werewolf have a passive bonus that would counter it? A passive which is active as long as Werewolf is the active ultimate slot AND while in form would be the easiest and makes the most sense to me. My idea for this passive is:

Heightened Senses - While slotted in and in humanoid form stealth detection is increased by 1.5 yards. Also, reduces the damage taken from a stealthed enemy by 15%. While in werewolf form however, these bonuses should at the very least be doubled. I say they should double at least due to the short amount of time we have while actually in form.

Thanks for your time.

Love this idea. Combining this with a slight increase to movement speed would make playing a Werewolf in human form loads of fun. In all honesty I would rather have these passives WITH the ability to stay in form much longer (via devour and continuity of combat, as has been suggested by many) than the ability to transform more often i.e. a low Ultimate Cost.

Edit: I'm still in favor of forced transformations during a full moon as long as there are "anti transformation" potion recipes available (additional revenue stream for alchemists).

timidobserver

Kre wrote: »

here's a question, will these new abilities be able to be used outside of WW form and will any passives be available around the clock, not just in WW form? you know like it is for vampires?

No the abilities probably won't be usable, but potentially passives will become usable since that is the main complaint seen in this thread. If they are taking the posts in this thread into consideration at all, they will change the passives to be usable in human form since it is pretty much the one thing that most people are mentioning.

I would just make the passives 20% less effective in human form.

ArconSeptim

I hope Developers read this thread comments, cause if not that's just mean from them.

Draxuul

Kypho wrote: »

Werewolf ulti, call a bunch of wolf spirit what bites and fears enemies. that would be fun

The werewolf form is an ultimate in itself and i doubt the transformation lasts long enough to gather enough ultimate points to use an Ultimate while transformed.

Draxuul

Draxuul

stewie_801 wrote: »

Draxuul wrote: »

Only issue i have with these changes is the ability to deal damage with voice.
Whether it`s a howling or a warcry or a shout or a scream, it simply doesn`t make any sense to be able to deal damage with one`s voice.

It`s unrealistic and even in the name of balance , i will never support such idea.

I can understand that a warcry could offer a small bonus to attack speed of nearby allies . Kind of like a boost to the morale of the troops making them more willing to fight and making them fight more fearlessly.

But dealing damage to an ennemy by simply roaring or howling is ridiculous , it doesn`t matter if you`re a mudcrab or a werewolf or even a dragon. Dealing damage with your voice, no matter how small the damage is , means that you could use that howl to finish off a fleeing ennemy from a distance simply by screaming at it ? In what world does that make sense?

Draxuul

Cut the quote down to show what part of it I am talking about. 185-200 db is considered the range in which sound can kill you. Just wanted to put this out there to help those feel it is realistic that sound can do damage/kill if it is loud enough. Sounds at around that around can cause your lungs to burst among several other possibilities.

Now how realistic you feel that a werewolf can do this without causing damage to themselves is debatable, but we are playing a fantasy MMO. So I think we can stretch that part of the imagination a bit and assume the sound goes out in a directional or cone away from us werewolves.

Here is a link that talks about sound and the range that can kill you. There are several other websites that also show up if you do a google search about sound killing you. http://www.realclearscience.com/video/2014/06/21/how_sound_can_kill_you.html

Yeah i'm aware of what a sonic boom can do and stuff like that but there isn't a creature alive that can deal damage with voice. In a fantasy world , there is only one creature that can do that and is known to do that and it's a Banshee. Their scream is so loud and so high pitched that it can drop even the strongest creatures to their knees in agony and kill the weakest ones.

Werewolves are scary and their roar is scary and i'm totally OK with giving them a fear ability associated with their roar but not damage . Werewolves are transformed humans , not a creature in itself, it's a human before it's a werewolf and even though they gain numerous bonuses such as strengh , speed etc... I'm not willing to accept that their howls or roars can achieve sonic boom potential.

Draxuul

Drazhar14

I think that fighters guild skills should only affect players who are transformed. Werewolves in human form should not be affected by the poison weakness and fighters guild passives.

If players continue to be weak to poison and fighters guild skills while in human form, then there needs to be passives added that work while in human form.

Oronell

Draxuul wrote: »

Yeah i'm aware of what a sonic boom can do and stuff like that but there isn't a creature alive that can deal damage with voice. In a fantasy world , there is only one creature that can do that and is known to do that and it's a Banshee. Their scream is so loud and so high pitched that it can drop even the strongest creatures to their knees in agony and kill the weakest ones.

Werewolves are scary and their roar is scary and i'm totally OK with giving them a fear ability associated with their roar but not damage . Werewolves are transformed humans , not a creature in itself, it's a human before it's a werewolf and even though they gain numerous bonuses such as strengh , speed etc... I'm not willing to accept that their howls or roars can achieve sonic boom potential.

Draxuul

It would probably make more sense for the Werewolf's Piercing Howl to cause disorientation while also setting enemies off balance.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Draxuul wrote: »

Kypho wrote: »

Werewolf ulti, call a bunch of wolf spirit what bites and fears enemies. that would be fun

The werewolf form is an ultimate in itself and i doubt the transformation lasts long enough to gather enough ultimate points to use an Ultimate while transformed.

Draxuul

Talking about how it should be if Werewolf transfrom were a proper toggle and not an ultimate.

Pazrael

If werewolf uses ultimate to become, it should be toggle, straight up. In werewolf form, should gain an entirely new bar of skills+ultimate, feeding should give health and ultimate regen, with the extent of stamina usage in this skill line, possibly make it so some things trigger off using ultimate instead. Stuns and snares shouldn't work wile in werewolf form, a strictly melee class is an absolute waist if all some mage has to do is kite to *** and knockback/stun whenever you get close. Also a damage reduction would be great as people have posted, but I think a great idea would be keep the delay but make an effect when you turn, immune to all dmg (or even a 75% like mist form) and all near by enemies panic in fear, would make more sense. A comment was people wanting taunt, how does this make sense, no humanoid would want to come close to you. as for the poison claws, am I not wrong to say werewolfs have a weakness to poison? so now werewolfs have the ability to kill their own kind? in many concepts werewolf bites to vampires is fatal, why isn't there some kind of thing where deals bonus damage to vampires and have "poison" a different element all together strictly from werewolves. Honestly I feel like the entire skill tree needs a huge overhaul, but I do love that they are getting 5 skills, when you have to turn into something and lose all other skills humanoid counterpart uses, having all valid capability and versatility as a werewolf is extremely required. That being said, these 5 abilities NEED to balance the fact that a single vampire can sit in the middle of a mob for ages with survivability high, a werewolf should gain huge benefits in packs, and should be able to completely outmatch a humanoid even vampire 1v1 Werewolves should be feared, vampires have gone rampant due to the versatility and freedom of all skill lines and using ultimate, sneaking speed bonus, all sorts of stuff say be vampire all over it, werewolves skill line needs to compare in other ways or it will never be used.

Atarax

As a vampire, I'm glad to see the werewolves getting some buffs. Just a few thoughts:

-Werewolf passives should be active both in humanoid and werewolf form, just be sure to balance them appropriately
-It should be possible for players to stay in werewolf form as long as they can keep themselves in a "rage," so either have them be able to generate and keep ultimate in a fight, and as long as they have ultimate, they can stay in, or kills extend the time significantly like in Skyrim, ex. 30 additional seconds per kill, or make it toggle-able; I think giving them transformation as a toggle + a new ultimate, would be the better choice.
-Werewolves should also be able to move really really fast in werewolf form imo.
-As with Vampire fire damage, taking increased poison damage, and making them vulnerable to fighter's guild actives and passives, seems to be enough of a downside to balance, I don't think they need more negatives for the buffs that Devs are contemplating + the things I just mentioned.