Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Davadin

LOL these are all super complicated proposals.

Just get all Wolvies passive to be enabled even in human form, then we'll be fine.

jgc471980

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

LOL these are all super complicated proposals.

Just get all Wolvies passive to be enabled even in human form, then we'll be fine.

Super complicated ? what planet are you on some of these I could code so no I 100% disagree, Change of skins to 3 models Easy, Change of existing skills Easy the difficult part would be calculating how the new skills work, bug, damage, etc and the animations for those

Davadin

jgc471980 wrote: »

dsoegiartob16_ESO wrote: »

LOL these are all super complicated proposals.

Just get all Wolvies passive to be enabled even in human form, then we'll be fine.

Super complicated ? what planet are you on some of these I could code so no I 100% disagree, Change of skins to 3 models Easy, Change of existing skills Easy the difficult part would be calculating how the new skills work, bug, damage, etc and the animations for those

I'm talking about all proposals in general. Like, all 9 pages of them. Your example, in particular, isn't so bad.

Mine?


Is even simpler.

draeganb16_ESO

adam_ascottb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation ultimate cost to activate: 725; drains 7.5 ult/s
while in WW form;

I see that i'm not the only one to propose that, the ultimate drain mechanic seems to be the best option to keep our fur as long as the combat last. It just need a balance between the drain and the gain. The idea of a toggable form is not bad but just...OP. This form should only be use in combat, not during a stroll in the streets of Riften.

Some people want the passives in human form AND a toggable form, it's too much I guess. Don't make an OP WW, just a balanced one. More skills (like those in the original post) and an utlimate drain mechanic should do the trick.

Kypho

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

adam_ascottb16_ESO2 wrote: »

Werewolf Transformation ultimate cost to activate: 725; drains 7.5 ult/s
while in WW form;

I see that i'm not the only one to propose that, the ultimate drain mechanic seems to be the best option to keep our fur as long as the combat last. It just need a balance between the drain and the gain. The idea of a toggable form is not bad but just...OP. This form should only be use in combat, not during a stroll in the streets of Riften.

Some people want the passives in human form AND a toggable form, it's too much I guess. Don't make an OP WW, just a balanced one. More skills (like those in the original post) and an utlimate drain mechanic should do the trick.

How can it be OP, while vamps get all crap always. dmg resistance, regens, 2 skill, the OP ultis. HOW could be any of the changes OP to WW???? there is no way it could be that.
Beside it would be still useless what you just said, the WW is still weak compared to non WW and dont even compare it to the f.gpirism.

red_marlow

Thanks ZOS. I strongly appreciate actually having abilities on the rest of my bar in werewolf form. Its good to see your trying. But to take extra damage all the time from Fighters Guild abilities, and fund over 15 Skill points into a skill tree that gives me no bonuses unless I use a costly ultimate that only lasts just over half a minute and isn't particularly powerful...

Its not even a matter of wether or not its worth it, its still not practical at all. I love were wolves, way more than vampires, but , playing PvP, I just cant.

If I got some passives while not in werewolf form, maybe.
If I could transform on a regular and consistent basis, maybe.
If both and, Hircine guide us, we could compete with vampires? Absolutely.

draeganb16_ESO

Don't forget that we only talk about werewolf in this thread. I know, brothers, your anger. Please, do not compare with those spawns of molag bal with our honorable werewolves, they are overpowered, it is a truth. It is NOT a reason to make the werewolf the same. It's the job of ZOS to nerf them, hard, but complain on an another thread.
There is a lot of good ideas to get the WW stronger, but as I read some of them(not all !), it seems that it's a race to reach the same "overpowerism" as vampirism.

ZOS did bad things with the pale ones but I would like to thanks ZOS for the efforts they put in the balance (slowly but certainly). After the Update 4, 400 Ulti for the form is much better, and the damages are now decents (450 dmg on heavy attacks is much better) ! The skills they propose are what we desperatly needed, AOE and survivability. The only thing that lack (a lot!) and they haven't done yet is keeping the form during combat, because combats, most of the time, last more than 30s in PvP and we can't devour/feral leap to keep our fur.

I totally agree that, actually, WW is useless in PvP. ZOS have a big thorn in there foot with the werewolf balance and an even bigger with all those vampires in Cyrodiil.
We, servants of Hircine, are on our way to be stronger (but not as fast as a werewolf...)

Iduyenn

1. why not something like this: (The more you stack up your ultimate, the bigger is your timer. So if you are by 500% Ultimate, you can stay 5 times as long in ww shape. (+25% duration, when 4 other ww`s are around).
2. Ultimate gained in WW shape can be reinvestet directly or indirectly:
-If you have more than 100% Ultimate you can add another 45s? 1m? in WW.
- If you are out of WW, you keep your Ultimates gained!!
3. Or make devour stackable up to a big amount of minutes.
4 Why not allow some "normal" skills in the bar? (Something like that entropy-morph passive, who allows passively 8% more health... I know, you should not be able to activate the abbility, because that would be wrong. But you should be able to slot the abbility because of the passive bonus...
The same with the dawnbreaker-ultimate...
As i tested today, armed weapons and the weapons themselves don`t affect something in WW form. (Only weaponpower, i know).
I am not even sure, if the setboni from the weapons are active...
5. When i transformed into WW, my weaponpower was reduced!

Iduyenn

Ehm... and one Question: Does WW scale with weapon-crit/crit-dmg?
It should, right? (Dexterity: Increases crit of physical attacks)
But in the Menu, there is written: critical weaponpower...

So in the end everybody is choosing medium armor right? Shouldn`t heavy armor also be a viable choice? (Atm it isn`t: Time too short to go on surviability and ignore 30% Crit, stamina-cost-reduce, etc...?!?)

jgc471980

@‌ Gina

Can I ask with all the feedback why there has been no input from yourselves or from the devs? not much of a discussion to be honest if you remain quiet for 2/3 weeks ?

draeganb16_ESO

An another crazy idea would that the ultimate activate itself when you reach 400 ulti (and it's slotted) but you have chances to counter that effect by 10% every level of werewolf. So at level 1, you have 10% chances to counter the automatic tranformation and at lvl 10 you have 100% chance.
Just a stupid idea to make the leveling of werewolf a bit more fun

Kypho

Give the puppies a bone again :P

nightwalkerrobin_ESO

Ok ZOS, how about some word from you on all this input you asked for?

jgc471980

* bangs head on wall

here was me thinking for the first time in 9 years a company would listen, converse and feedback to us... this is what happens when you get your hopes up this is not a conversation/discussion this is a (throw them a nugget of gold) and watch them scramble

/sigh

Iduyenn

Hello everyone

I made some further examinations with my WW.

1. I observed, that the passive “Savage Strengh” is very good. That is great news!
But I asked myself the following question: If I gear up, to be as close to the stamina cap in human form, as possible. The overcharge in WW form is huuuge.
So for me there are two options:
First option: I break down my stamina, so, when I am in WW I don’t have this massive overload. (And not those massive loss of attribute points…). But that brings the following question: During a combat. Am I mostly in human, or in WW form? In human form I am exponentially weaker… And yes, the solution is staying longer in WW shape.
Second Option: You alter the passive “Savage Strengh” to “Savage Beast”, give us 10% Stamina and 10% Life (instead of 19% Stamina). Why? [1] Because the difference in Stamina is not so huge and we don’t waste to many attributepoints in overload. [2] You would also solve a major problem concerning melee-dps-surviability. I know, this is a problem to solve, but it is not a secret, that there are “philosophichal” discussions, how to improve melee/stamina builds. Think about it…

2. Concerning Class/Race
Yes, I know. Some of you will not agree. But I think the classes and races shouldn`t have such a big impact on WW. After all, you are already lvl 30+ when given the change to be one of them.
If you are unlucky like me, you are a highelf templar vet 14. Do I have to replay the whole game only, because some passive stats don’t fit with my class and race? (And don`t say, they don’t matter much… because they do… especially, if the class-passives are active with slotted abilities….).
I would love to see some assistance, because as a Templar to go stamina… it`s nearly impossible.

3. Single target/AOE
I must say, I am impressed, by the single target dmg. We have real potential there.
And I heard, that the new spells will help us manage single target and aoe. Even some cc.
But my observation is, we still are to weak in this area. Either we need more survivability, or longer aoe cc.

4. Melee problems
I know, its hard to find a balance. Why should a melee have more survivability? And why has he to manage harder between survivability and damage?
Even if we have to move. Movement and cc break are direct cost from our main-resource-pool.
As a healer, I can sprint, dodgeroll, block it doesn`t matter, because magicka is not influenced.
Some gear-class constellations can rush right through a pack of trashmobs. Here a standard, there an astronarch, stuns, selfheal, bubble. And that counts for guys dressed in light or medium armor.
I don`t want to complain to much. I am sure, there are other threads for that. But I think, this is a basic problem, to be solved for all.
In the end, you will make everyone better, so they can only complain about pvp inbalance.
I know… it`s a process…

5. Various
We made several good propositions here. I can only repeat myself:
- Ultimate-cost: It`s simple not fair, to gain ultimate in WW shape and not be able to use it somehow. This really has to change. Ceterum censeo: more time, less stress, more fun playing ww.
- Implement bare-hand- or fist-fight as a weapon. You could even implement new weapons (fortified hand-armour).
Not only for WW, this could be a very good thing to balance melee and the lack of boni in ww shape. (i.e with passive boni)
- Devour: We should have more dinamic and choice here.

I really hope, the developers have put some thoughts in the propositions made by the community. It would be much appreciated if someone could provide us with further information. (some as: “Where are the developers going with WW” (direction “it stays an ultimate” or “we think the timeframe of the transformation can be longer”). Because then the community would be able to give more detailed and better directed ideas.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @Zos_

Edit: And the ww-charge is awsome... but the landing should be near an enemy and not, where he was standing 2 seconds ago.

Enesse

Has anyone else really been bothered by Devour being interrupted by any damage? Meaning even caltrops on the ground prevent you from eating a dead body.

Iduyenn

Enesse wrote: »

Has anyone else really been bothered by Devour being interrupted by any damage? Meaning even caltrops on the ground prevent you from eating a dead body.

Yes, besides the fact, that it should not have a cd or at least not be interrupted. The time from your howling is to short to feed during fearing phase...
It`s a huge disadvantage to have to feed in the middle of the battle. I had this situation very often.

Kypho

Iduyenn wrote: »

Enesse wrote: »

Has anyone else really been bothered by Devour being interrupted by any damage? Meaning even caltrops on the ground prevent you from eating a dead body.

Yes, besides the fact, that it should not have a cd or at least not be interrupted. The time from your howling is to short to feed during fearing phase...
It`s a huge disadvantage to have to feed in the middle of the battle. I had this situation very often.

ofc f.gpirism feed is NOT interruptable LAWL ZENIIIIIII

Iduyenn

Aaaand... i hate it to not be able to transform in lower levels... no ultimate...

This sucks, if you want to play lower content with friends...

jgc471980

August 27th was the first post and not a reply or response from Devs/ Gina

Sigh...............

Thejollygreenone

jgc471980 wrote: »

August 27th was the first post and not a reply or response from Devs/ Gina

Sigh...............

No responses, but a put-through of first wave of changes to werewolf. We got the reduced ult cost and weapon power scaling/passive change that was talked about. I certainly have been using my ww form a bit more, for fun since it is still pretty bad.

snowsong

Fantastic news! Those ideas from the Dev's sound great so far, and it would be better if Werewolf form was toggled on and off the way summoned Daedric helpers are currently, and so had nothing to do with using up ultimate or taking the ultimate slot up The ideas people had about having some WW passives whilst in humanoid form were good too. Faster stamina regeneration passive would be nice. Thank you so much.

doenny

Nice and really looking forward to when all this suggestion come real.

Let me add something in other way. It will now affect the animation. What I would love to see is on the healing skill animation similar like "dog licking his paws when injured". No casting, no spells, just really natural common way how animals heal their wounds. And the animation could be followed by some cute noise dogs usually do when wounded.

Consider it, wouldn't that be great It will definitely intensify my relationship and bound with the toon.

Thx for hearing my wish

BR @D

draeganb16_ESO

Since the last patch, the idea of stamina recover with heavy attack seams good. I tell to myself : "Good, it'll be a good way to cast my werewolf skills a bit more often with my poor 1200 stamina pool !"
How disappointed I was when I pull my paws up in the air to recover nothing but some skins of a skeever in my claws
ZOS, please, can you make this stamina recovery with heavy attack works with the heavy attack of the werewolf ?

Iduyenn

And me again:

I would love it, to be able to use WW as a Tank. But i know... this would go to far. Even if this would bring more diversity to the Game. (I mean: shouldn`t the WW depend on what you wearing?

Well, in the future, i heard somewhere, the scaling of damage will depend on your higher stat. Does this affect WW aswell?

xaraan

Glad to see some improvements, but unless the passives work in human form (since the negatives work in human form as well - poison and FG abilities) I'll continue to avoid this option even though normally I'd give it a go.

Rexlupis

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

Since the last patch, the idea of stamina recover with heavy attack seams good. I tell to myself : "Good, it'll be a good way to cast my werewolf skills a bit more often with my poor 1200 stamina pool !"
How disappointed I was when I pull my paws up in the air to recover nothing but some skins of a skeever in my claws
ZOS, please, can you make this stamina recovery with heavy attack works with the heavy attack of the werewolf ?

Considering EVERY OTHER HEAVY ATTACK IN THE GAME now gives back a resource, this seems like another massive over-sight. When I didn't see it listed in the patch notes I wasn't sure, since none of the patch notes listed any of the changes they've implemented and I've done minimal testing in werewolf form since the patch (it seems like their damage output is now even worse than it was before!) but I still wasn't quite sure if the heavy attack returning stamina was working for werewolf... So, another reason to never use this ability. Great.
Seventeen skill points later, I have a 400 cost ultimate that makes me do less damage and have less survivability than in human form without using an ultimate! If I use an ultimate my DPS compared to werewolf is at least DOUBLE and the ultimate cost is HALF! This is beyond imbalanced; it's downright broken.

Kypho

Rexlupis wrote: »

draeganb16_ESO wrote: »

Since the last patch, the idea of stamina recover with heavy attack seams good. I tell to myself : "Good, it'll be a good way to cast my werewolf skills a bit more often with my poor 1200 stamina pool !"
How disappointed I was when I pull my paws up in the air to recover nothing but some skins of a skeever in my claws
ZOS, please, can you make this stamina recovery with heavy attack works with the heavy attack of the werewolf ?

Considering EVERY OTHER HEAVY ATTACK IN THE GAME now gives back a resource, this seems like another massive over-sight. When I didn't see it listed in the patch notes I wasn't sure, since none of the patch notes listed any of the changes they've implemented and I've done minimal testing in werewolf form since the patch (it seems like their damage output is now even worse than it was before!) but I still wasn't quite sure if the heavy attack returning stamina was working for werewolf... So, another reason to never use this ability. Great.
Seventeen skill points later, I have a 400 cost ultimate that makes me do less damage and have less survivability than in human form without using an ultimate! If I use an ultimate my DPS compared to werewolf is at least DOUBLE and the ultimate cost is HALF! This is beyond imbalanced; it's downright broken.

TBH all other ultimates are better than WW, not mention, that Vampirism has its own ultimate and buffs your char without using any form+ the ulti is the best ulti.
With these "fixes" WW wont be near to any other ultimates, nor be comparable to vampirism.



((i want my ulti to follow me so i can gank ppl around too. I want to see DK standard following him around while spamming talons and pulsar + be invisible or heal would be nice ballance vs lolswarm, or NB going around ppl with soul tether ticking every half sec, or veil of blades + aoespam + be invisible or heal...etc.))

Skizer78

I like that there are improvements being made for the WW but it would be nice to have some passives to go along with it. Since you were mentioning morphs and it is not very often that you see a skill with two really good morphs, why not have one morph that focuses on PvE and the other PvP. I think it might be interesting to have disease damage to not only deal health damage but maybe either stamina damage or magicka damage as well. In a PvP setting, damage to your stamina or magicka could change the course of combat in various ways that would be interesting to test. Just my thoughts on how to bring something different to the table.

jgc471980

Thejollygreenone wrote: »

jgc471980 wrote: »

August 27th was the first post and not a reply or response from Devs/ Gina

Sigh...............

No responses, but a put-through of first wave of changes to werewolf. We got the reduced ult cost and weapon power scaling/passive change that was talked about. I certainly have been using my ww form a bit more, for fun since it is still pretty bad.

True but there has been alot of feedback we desperately want this the werewolf to be a class on itself the Only reason I am paying sub is for there werewolf class itself I know its a side line and i accept that but we have given them many many many tips / suggestions / alternatives and would hope they use this invaluable information to give us a new update but to give us this list of changes then to say nothing for over 30 days is very VERY poor in my opinon