Upcoming Werewolf Changes

Castielle

Taz wrote: »

I like all the changes except for....

Having the ultimate cost less.

In my opinion, the werewolf ultimate should reflect a werewolf's nature, and become almost a reverse-ultimate. So it is indeed an ultimate skill that you can toggle at will, but the more you fight, the more ultimate you gain, and if you don't transform before your ultimate reaches the max, you're forced to transform for a minute or so (but transforming before brings your ultimate back to base).

That way you actually feel like a werewolf, like a beast clawing at the surface at any second as you enter the heat of battle. Just as vampires have to feed to retain their 'humanity', so too do werewolves have to hunt as a beast to retain theirs.

It adds interesting new strategies for playing a werewolf, especially if they're flagged on transformation within the Justice System.

Utterly Brilliant! Best Idea I have heard yet!

Cas

Iduyenn

Ok, i think we have some very good ideas here. Hopefully the devs can use some of them.

I sayed earlier, that I am already happy and I stand by that. Here some more ideas: Just take them not to serious…

Patch: Rise of hircines Children

Some new questlines you can do as a werewolf or against them. (If you are not a werewolf, your questline will go another way. Some spin-off questlines could lead to cyrodiil.
A reward could not only be special items, but new skills or skillpoints .

About the new abilities and changes we have a ton of good ideas here in this topic, so I leave this one out.

Improved animations (running on all four, some basic emotes to communicate)

Improved playermodels (new eye colors, new skins)

What we forgot:
You can influence/balance werewolfs not only by changing some active and passive abilities. Don’t forget armor:

I would love to see some new armor and armorbonus. You could for example implement a secret werewolf hiding place, where only wolves could craft this set:

Something like this:

2 Setitems: You don`t need ultimate points anymore to change in to your other form
3 Setitems: While in human form, your passive werewolf abilities are increased by x%
4 Setitems: Gain additional xxx stamina
5 Setitems: Increases running speed by x%
6 Setitems: while in human form you gain 1500 poison resistance (1000 in beastform)

If struck by a critical hit, 50% chance to get 100% immunity for 10 secons, can only be applied every 2 minutes.

You could even allow a new bufffood or potion to support werewolfs.

Edit: Oh and am i the only one missing cloaks in this game?

Kypho

When will ww update come? patch 1.9?

Raidenz258b14a_ESO

you could literally copy the vampire system.

you have to feed to stay in human form and go through stages the longer you resist the hunger.

make it just like the vamp but with stamina.

so you don't eat and hit stage 4 and take more poison damage and slow health regen but your stam regen and damage output would be insane.

most stam builds want to be a glass cannon type anyways, this would help and be inline with the rage of a werewolf.

Vectani

Please, just make Werewolfs more vialble in PVP. Those tons of Vampires in AW , its kinda rude.
If Vampires role in PvP is mass dmg, give WW tanky role .
Some CC like mass fear to go in the zergs would be great.
Time for some balance in game.

Tamanous

I agree with others. Werewolf is poorly thought out and the changes are not enough.

This is Werewolf light and a rushed concept in development. The devs need to pick up a Werewolf: The Forsaken book and learn how powerful a werewolf should be.

If this is to remain a short duration ultimate skill then make it make a character much more powerful. Currently transforming simply makes you a weaker version than you already are. It is a gimmick while vampire is becoming a required skill in pvp (and pve to a lesser degree) for many.

Braddass

Tamanous wrote: »

Currently transforming simply makes you a weaker version than you already are. It is a gimmick while vampire is becoming a required skill in pvp (and pve to a lesser degree) for many.

That is more an indictment of the overpowered nature of Vampire.

LtCrunch

I think these changes will go a long way towards making WW powerful and something to be desired(outside of flavor). That being said I mirror the thoughts of everyone else that WW form should last longer OR behave mechanically similar to how Overload does.

One problem not mentioned in the list of changes is the self-CC when transforming into WW form, I think this could easily be remedied by either making the player immune to incoming damaging, healing and controlling effects for the duration of the animation. If not that then I think another sensible change would be to give the transformation itself a fear effect when activated that lasts the same amount of time as the transformation animation itself. Thanks for taking the time to consider and relay our feedback to the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno, keep up the good work!

Thejollygreenone

Brandalf wrote: »

[snip]

One problem not mentioned in the list of changes is the self-CC when transforming into WW form, I think this could easily be remedied by either making the player immune to incoming damaging, healing and controlling effects for the duration of the animation. If not that then I think another sensible change would be to give the transformation itself a fear effect when activated that lasts the same amount of time as the transformation animation itself. Thanks for taking the time to consider and relay our feedback to the devs @ZOS_GinaBruno, keep up the good work!

This, this, a million times this. If something was done correctly to remedy the transformation animation (self-CC) vulnerability problem, along with the changes already presented by our dev team, I think we'd be in REALLY good shape on the road to efficiency for the werewolf playstyle.

I think the duration is certainly an issue, but I think that could potentially be solved via fixing the devour cooldown thing. Personally, I think something like an overload mimic would perfectly solve this problem without the need to take devour off any cooldown, and it kills two birds with one stone:

It solves the duration issue, and the loss of regained ultimate when transforming out of werewolf form back to human form issue. In this scenario, ultimate gained would effectively increase the duration, since the duration would be based on the gradual loss of ultimate points which would ideally be slightly offset by the effects of combat.

I really see that method as the best course of action to get werewolf where it should be.

Iduyenn

@‌Brandalf
Agree

The Problem is: In the time beeing our enemys are not frozen. They move around, strategize, take some realy badass skills with long casttime, slot expert hunter, prepare their lunch...
Player hanging around far away have even more time.

So theoretically we have to count not only the transformation, but also the way to those far away (they went in hide probably... )

If we dont have some immunity or surviability, we get nuked on the way without even touching our enemy once...

On the other hand i loveed the transformation in Skyrim...

Aaand: I would love to see some connections to other wolfes... the npc dogs and wolfes should feel your true nature...

Draxuul

Only issue i have with these changes is the ability to deal damage with voice.
Whether it`s a howling or a warcry or a shout or a scream, it simply doesn`t make any sense to be able to deal damage with one`s voice.

It`s unrealistic and even in the name of balance , i will never support such idea.

I can understand that a warcry could offer a small bonus to attack speed of nearby allies . Kind of like a boost to the morale of the troops making them more willing to fight and making them fight more fearlessly.

I can understand that a werewolf howl could strike fear in the heart of his ennemies , either dazing them for a few seconds or reducing their damage for a few seconds and such. Maybe reducing their resistances for a few seconds . You know , the kind of effect that makes the ennemy a bit less effective in combat for ``X`` amount of time because they`re pissing their pants or shaking in fear .

But dealing damage to an ennemy by simply roaring or howling is ridiculous , it doesn`t matter if you`re a mudcrab or a werewolf or even a dragon. Dealing damage with your voice, no matter how small the damage is , means that you could use that howl to finish off a fleeing ennemy from a distance simply by screaming at it ? In what world does that make sense?

Werewolves should not have any form of ranged damaging attack. They are animals, they have long claws and long teeth and a fearsome roar . They run faster , they jump higher , they`re stronger and tougher but they are mellee attackers.

Their speed already gives them the ability to catch up with a fleeing prey, their pounce allows them to close the gap pretty quickly as well so please for the sake of realism don`t allow them to do ranged damage by howling .

If anything , to compensate , give that howl a different effect , just not damage. Real wolves use their howl to locate the other wolves in the pack. Why not have the werewolf call in some reinforcements by using that howl instead of making it deal damage .

By reinforcements i of course mean 1 or 2 regular wolves of his own lvl . Those wolves shouldn`t be too hard to kill but as long as the ennemy doesn`t pay attention to them and keeps attacking the werewolf player, those wolves could be dealing some damage. Not too much but , you know , something ...

All i`m asking for are abilities that make sense , not abilities that are being added for the sake of adding an ability.

Blizzard did that , Turbine did that and many other developers did that . I`m not playing their games anymore . I`m playing yours and thats because so far there isn`t too much non sense in your game . Please keep the non sense to a minimum.

Draxuul

Iduyenn

Spellcrafting for werewolfs?

Ilven

we need to stealth in werewolf form

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Ilven wrote: »

we need to stealth in werewolf form

with negated stealth speed penalty.

Kypho

Werewolf ulti, call a bunch of wolf spirit what bites and fears enemies. that would be fun

Cously

Let's go dawgs! If every player in this thread sends a support ticket as suggestion they will see there is public for effort they will do enhancing the WW.

jgc471980

@‌ ZOS_GinaBruno

Anymore Updates

Either from our feedback or other changes for our Lycan brothers/sisters

Chrlynsch

Make ww damage unblockable... or at least some sort of penetration percent.

Chrlynsch

Draxuul wrote: »

Only issue i have with these changes is the ability to deal damage with voice.
Whether it`s a howling or a warcry or a shout or a scream, it simply doesn`t make any sense to be able to deal damage with one`s voice.

It`s unrealistic and even in the name of balance , i will never support such idea.

I can understand that a warcry could offer a small bonus to attack speed of nearby allies . Kind of like a boost to the morale of the troops making them more willing to fight and making them fight more fearlessly.

I can understand that a werewolf howl could strike fear in the heart of his ennemies , either dazing them for a few seconds or reducing their damage for a few seconds and such. Maybe reducing their resistances for a few seconds . You know , the kind of effect that makes the ennemy a bit less effective in combat for ``X`` amount of time because they`re pissing their pants or shaking in fear .

But dealing damage to an ennemy by simply roaring or howling is ridiculous , it doesn`t matter if you`re a mudcrab or a werewolf or even a dragon. Dealing damage with your voice, no matter how small the damage is , means that you could use that howl to finish off a fleeing ennemy from a distance simply by screaming at it ? In what world does that make sense?

Werewolves should not have any form of ranged damaging attack. They are animals, they have long claws and long teeth and a fearsome roar . They run faster , they jump higher , they`re stronger and tougher but they are mellee attackers.

Their speed already gives them the ability to catch up with a fleeing prey, their pounce allows them to close the gap pretty quickly as well so please for the sake of realism don`t allow them to do ranged damage by howling .

If anything , to compensate , give that howl a different effect , just not damage. Real wolves use their howl to locate the other wolves in the pack. Why not have the werewolf call in some reinforcements by using that howl instead of making it deal damage .

By reinforcements i of course mean 1 or 2 regular wolves of his own lvl . Those wolves shouldn`t be too hard to kill but as long as the ennemy doesn`t pay attention to them and keeps attacking the werewolf player, those wolves could be dealing some damage. Not too much but , you know , something ...

All i`m asking for are abilities that make sense , not abilities that are being added for the sake of adding an ability.

Blizzard did that , Turbine did that and many other developers did that . I`m not playing their games anymore . I`m playing yours and thats because so far there isn`t too much non sense in your game . Please keep the non sense to a minimum.

Draxuul

A lot of good points here! I would be very happy seeing the second roar turn into something like reduce enemy reduced block% or stunted ultimate gain for 5 sec. With morphs increasing time that allies are in werewolf form 2-4 (this will cause wolves to naturally gather on the battlefield), second morph: reduce enemy stamina or by pool % or stop regen of all stats for 5 seconds.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Prothwata wrote: »

Make ww damage unblockable... or at least some sort of penetration percent.

They should do the same thing with the 2h skill line...

natewook

YES! it's everything I've wanted for werewolf's in PVP and PVE. ...but nothing for RP.

Chuggernaut

Can you drop the timer on werewolf form although and just make it act like Overload (Storm Calling Ultimate), and also remove the timer on Devour? Those two changes to werewolf would make my day!

Iduyenn

If you are working on different ww skin/models, it would be great to include normal player-attributes (like sex, hight, weight, age).
I know, that Zenimax is working on new mimic-movements (The devs introduced it at Quakecon).
I would love it, to see the models a bit bigger. Some futures of the ww shape seem to be to "rounded up".

Chuggernaut

Oh also PLEASE make 3 different werewolf colors. Brown for the basic ultimate, White for the Pack Leader and Black w/Red Eyes for the Berserker.

JLB

As other have commented, I think it's very important to have more passives boosts that affect the char when not in WW form (and maybe have a stronger version of said passives when in WW form)..
Some ideas:
Increased & cheaper Run Speed
Increased Attack Speed
Damage Reduction
Max Health/Stam
Increased Health/Stam regeneration

Bloodrage shouldn't require you to have the Ultimate slotted. No need to be so restricting.

And another thing I'd like to see is at least 1 WW skill that you can use while not in WW form.

Lokryn

I just wish they would improve the model and animations. Every movement is too stiff, they need to smooth it out. The run animation is horrid. Give us running on all fours when sprinting. The head/snout is too small and the teeth don't look scary/sharp enough. Also, the eyes are too small and should have a color (yellow for white wolves, red for black, etc.).

Also, please allow us to sneak while in werewolf form.

nicedragon

Strike text = bad idea
Bold text = good idea but under some conditions

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Our team has been paying attention to the feedback you’re sharing about the werewolf skill line, and we’re ready to tell you about some of the changes we’re considering to improve the gameplay experience for all you followers of Hircine out there. We’re interested in seeing what you think!

First off, we’re planning to reduce the cost of transforming into a werewolf. The current costs feel too high, and we want you to be able to transform more frequently[1]. We’ve also fixed a bug that prevented you from using the CC Break ability in werewolf form.

We want to make a few changes to damage scaling and the Savage Strength passive that will give you a little more burst potential and allow your gear upgrades to affect damage output in a more meaningful way. Savage Strength will offer a flat increase to power instead of stacking multiple times. The bonus is a bit lower to balance the change out, but overall you’ll have more ability to deal burst damage. We want light and heavy attacks to additionally scale off of weapon power (instead of just maximum stamina)[2], and for Pounce and its morphs to scale off of weapon power instead of spell power.

Finally, we’ll be adding some all-new werewolf abilities to give you more combat options. Here’s what we’ve come up with (we’ll have more about the morphs in the future and would love to know what you’d like to see):

[*] Hircine’s Bounty: This is a self-heal ability that gives you more survivability.[3]
[*] Piercing Howl: An ability that damages and knocks an enemy down.
[*] Infectious Claws: A swipe attack that deals disease damage to multiple foes.

There you have it! Tell us what you think about the changes, which will be coming online in a future game update. Happy hunting!

[1] - More frequent changes or longer time after change? I prefer time.
Actually I'm still counting on "change on request - in unlimited way" what can be done by doing Werewolf transform as regular skill and in that mode add skill Ultimate as timed booster. That way I can understand idea changing or adding extra damage scaling factor for better balance.

[2] - Why? Werewolf is "not wearing" that weapon / armour, only fur and claws, but general idea increasing damage and/or armor is good but only factors who should be important in that mode is Maximum Stamina and Maximum Health. No other gear stats should be counted unless it is special designed for werewolf and only werewolf player could wear it or craft it.

[3] - Nice but if change will be time limited a extra time will be nice too.


And at the end, to be completely honest, these changes are very good (the majority), but not enough for me to renew my subscription (which was suspended only because of poor design werewolf). Still lacks mention of improved animation (4 legs, jumping, etc) and still weak opportunities for RP and PvE.

Chuggernaut

Not sure how I feel about the weapon tied to damage yet. I know currently my level 46 max stamina ww does a ton of damage, but I would assume under this change my damage would drop a lot, and would not get back to the current damage I'm doing now in ww until I hit vr10 or so... Does that sound about right ZOS_Gina?

edit for (sp)elling error

Enesse

I do agree with the first point of 2 posts above, we'd much rather have significantly more time in werewolf form than transform for frequently.

stewie_801

Draxuul wrote: »

Only issue i have with these changes is the ability to deal damage with voice.
Whether it`s a howling or a warcry or a shout or a scream, it simply doesn`t make any sense to be able to deal damage with one`s voice.

It`s unrealistic and even in the name of balance , i will never support such idea.

I can understand that a warcry could offer a small bonus to attack speed of nearby allies . Kind of like a boost to the morale of the troops making them more willing to fight and making them fight more fearlessly.

But dealing damage to an ennemy by simply roaring or howling is ridiculous , it doesn`t matter if you`re a mudcrab or a werewolf or even a dragon. Dealing damage with your voice, no matter how small the damage is , means that you could use that howl to finish off a fleeing ennemy from a distance simply by screaming at it ? In what world does that make sense?

Draxuul

Cut the quote down to show what part of it I am talking about. 185-200 db is considered the range in which sound can kill you. Just wanted to put this out there to help those feel it is realistic that sound can do damage/kill if it is loud enough. Sounds at around that around can cause your lungs to burst among several other possibilities.

Now how realistic you feel that a werewolf can do this without causing damage to themselves is debatable, but we are playing a fantasy MMO. So I think we can stretch that part of the imagination a bit and assume the sound goes out in a directional or cone away from us werewolves.

Here is a link that talks about sound and the range that can kill you. There are several other websites that also show up if you do a google search about sound killing you. http://www.realclearscience.com/video/2014/06/21/how_sound_can_kill_you.html