Request: Allow Grouping in Currently "Solo-Only" Instances

Hnightblazenub18_ESO

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Molag Bal shouldn't be a cakewalk. Neither should Mannimarco.

And I don't understand people who cry for help at the first little problem they have, rather than trying to solve it themselves. That seems to be the modern way of thinking, though. But then, I also don't understand people who are afraid to be alone in the dark behind locked doors. I got used to that crap between ages 9-12, on top of having to check on my grandmother to make sure she wasn't dead.

I don't care if it is a "cakewalk" when I have the opportunity to team with my friend. If people choose to constantly ask for help then that should be their choice. It has no adverse effect on me whatsoever. If they are happy and stick around ESO longer because they are having fun, that is all that should matter. I have 3 solo characters and 1 team character. So, I will see all the content many times from all angles. I just want all content to be available when I am teaming with my friend as well. It just makes things more fun, and that is why I play games. If I wanted to go solo all the time I could have spent $5-$70 one time and owned a game with no monthly fee involved and played alone to my hearts content without constant lag, server downtimes, and so on. However I wanted a game that once a month when my friend and I can get together we can play together. That is what I bought two copies of ESO for.

Iceman_mat

Allow sharing of quests and quest goals and then scale the dungeons difficulty to persons in it. Groups would have a harder time but more exp, solo not so much but less exp. For people using summons have the dungeon adjust mobs accordingly (tank summon = dps mobs). Easier said then to program but food for thought.

-cheers

isengrimb16_ESO

Hnightblazenub18_ESO wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Molag Bal shouldn't be a cakewalk. Neither should Mannimarco.

And I don't understand people who cry for help at the first little problem they have, rather than trying to solve it themselves. That seems to be the modern way of thinking, though. But then, I also don't understand people who are afraid to be alone in the dark behind locked doors. I got used to that crap between ages 9-12, on top of having to check on my grandmother to make sure she wasn't dead.

I don't care if it is a "cakewalk" when I have the opportunity to team with my friend. If people choose to constantly ask for help then that should be their choice. It has no adverse effect on me whatsoever. If they are happy and stick around ESO longer because they are having fun, that is all that should matter. I have 3 solo characters and 1 team character. So, I will see all the content many times from all angles. I just want all content to be available when I am teaming with my friend as well. It just makes things more fun, and that is why I play games. If I wanted to go solo all the time I could have spent $5-$70 one time and owned a game with no monthly fee involved and played alone to my hearts content without constant lag, server downtimes, and so on. However I wanted a game that once a month when my friend and I can get together we can play together. That is what I bought two copies of ESO for.

15 levels? Are you wearing lvl 20 white unenchanted gear or what?



[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

zgrssd

SWTOR had an interesting solution to the whole "what if people on the same quest enter the same isntance with differing moral decsions" problem:
Every instance with moral choices (that are not designed to be group choices*) like class quests, only the owner (the first player in) could progress his quest.
The others were halted. For a odd reason a default setting denied others of your class access to your stry area, but it was just a checkbox in the options.

Unfortuantely it might be one of those things very hard to implement retroactively, but chances are the design allows.
It might even be easier due to phasing just like it works for normal quests right now.

I can only agree that some FG, MG and Main Quests are simply very hard to solo. I generally do not even start Doshia's fight before being slightly overleveled (2-4 levels with proper gear).


*Group decision and conversation are actually a important aspect of the game and one of the reasons I kept playing it so long (and propably will continue when I get slightly bored with ESO for a time).

isengrimb16_ESO

2-4 levels overpowered for Doshia is not bad. Done that myself. If you can't kill that after 15 levels overpowered, you have a serious problem somewhere,

Hnightblazenub18_ESO

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Hnightblazenub18_ESO wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Molag Bal shouldn't be a cakewalk. Neither should Mannimarco.

And I don't understand people who cry for help at the first little problem they have, rather than trying to solve it themselves. That seems to be the modern way of thinking, though. But then, I also don't understand people who are afraid to be alone in the dark behind locked doors. I got used to that crap between ages 9-12, on top of having to check on my grandmother to make sure she wasn't dead.

I don't care if it is a "cakewalk" when I have the opportunity to team with my friend. If people choose to constantly ask for help then that should be their choice. It has no adverse effect on me whatsoever. If they are happy and stick around ESO longer because they are having fun, that is all that should matter. I have 3 solo characters and 1 team character. So, I will see all the content many times from all angles. I just want all content to be available when I am teaming with my friend as well. It just makes things more fun, and that is why I play games. If I wanted to go solo all the time I could have spent $5-$70 one time and owned a game with no monthly fee involved and played alone to my hearts content without constant lag, server downtimes, and so on. However I wanted a game that once a month when my friend and I can get together we can play together. That is what I bought two copies of ESO for.

15 levels? Are you wearing lvl 20 white unenchanted gear or what?



[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

I think you have the wrong person and response. I am not 15 levels overpowered for anything. My highest level character is currently 37 or maybe 38 and he has soloed everything thus far. The person that said they were 15 levels overpowered and having issues was not me. However this is irrelevant your attitude towards players that are having issues is uncalled for. I realize that some people are perfect gamers and have no problems apparently, but there are also gamers that just want to have fun and could care less about perfecting their art as a gamer. Please do not attack me again without cause.

FYI: I have played 4 MMO's in my life and WOW was not one of them. I hated the thought of it and never played.

I am the guy that would like to be able to play through all content with his friend once a month and solo the rest of the time. All I want is the option.

skeletorz_ESO

No. It is not a cheating issue, nor an ego issue.

This system is in place as a way to check the skill of the player. If this were removed and people were allowed to group or duo into the single player, main story instances then you would have all kinds of players that get to max level and still have never learned to play their characters.

Then those players that have no idea what they're doing with their own toons try to queue up for vet dungeons and cause all kinds of grief.

These missions are not difficult. If you can't beat them, you need to change how you're doing something. It's that simple.

Hnightblazenub18_ESO

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

No. It is not a cheating issue, nor an ego issue.

This system is in place as a way to check the skill of the player. If this were removed and people were allowed to group or duo into the single player, main story instances then you would have all kinds of players that get to max level and still have never learned to play their characters.

Then those players that have no idea what they're doing with their own toons try to queue up for vet dungeons and cause all kinds of grief.

These missions are not difficult. If you can't beat them, you need to change how you're doing something. It's that simple.

Yes, but what if you like me are capable of soloing the quests yet once in a blue moon you want to game with a friend and feel cheated for being FORCED to either skip solo forced content or have to come back to it later overpowered and get nothing out of it because you didn't want to waste your time you had with your friend? Even so, if someone is having fun playing the game they bought it shouldn't matter if they are vet level and underskilled or not. If someone queues in to a vet dungeon and you don't like the way they talk, dress, or play, place them on ignore and don't play with them again (problem solved). The key is for people to have fun, not stress and curse, and attack one another or their computer. As I have said 10 times, it won't effect me what you do, or vice-versa so who cares as long as everyone has fun.

skeletorz_ESO

You didn't refute a single thing I said, so I'm not going to dignify that rant with a proper response.

Sakiri

When I want a challenge in a solo quest, I make a challenge myself.

I recently did Will of the Council and The Mad God's Bargain at level 35.

I plan on doing it next time at 34, provided I actually get the quest then. That's when I got it this last time.

Oh, and when I did it this last time around? Templar. Destro/resto templar, but there was no impulse spam or any of the other gimmicks that people whine about. "Templars are broken!!!".. Sure. If they were completely broken I shouldn't be able to do that.

Ah.. Miss miss miss miss miss miss... That's fun. 5 minute harvester fight...

Sakiri

Ysne58 wrote: »

The level 8 harvester operates very differently from the level 30 main quest harvester and the level 43 fighter's guild harvester. I have reported the buggy behavior, but they spam both the orbs and the hard hitting attack that stuns. And any companion you have with you is completely useless and not helping.

The level 43 also has help from other daedra that are being ported in randomly, making an impossible battle even harder.

RMB + LMB(same combo that interrupts) will break you out of the stun for a large chunk of Stamina.

Sakiri

BadgerRider1 wrote: »

I just completed Doshia on my 2nd toon............man what a bummer. The first time was a multi-death, gear upgrade, talent respect effort. I was so elated when I finally got the *)#% down!

At this point and time, I don't really care about those who are having troubles or want to group through everything............give it to em!!!!!!!!!

Just don't nerf any more bosses.

Doshia used to be epic...........now Doshia is trash.

Doshia has always been trash to me.

Doesn't mean others had issues.

And no, seriously. I one shot Doshia the first time I fought her....

Sakiri

Ysne58 wrote: »

No. I am aware of all that conversation. I watched your video and it was not helpful.

Have you seen mine? It's the Lyris doppleganger but it applies to every other harvester in the game. Discounting bugs anyways.

http://youtu.be/My3CJE1vNNY

Sakiri

Hnightblazenub18_ESO wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

I still think they are meant as gear and skill checks, and I would not like to see people group-zerging these, as it would require the things to be tuned beyond the possibility of soloing and would destroy their purpose as checks.

If anything, make them duoable, but no more than that. And if duos complain about how easy it is to take down bosses, don't listen.

I can mostly agree with this. As I said before I don't care about them raising the difficulty. To me it is just the simple fact of being able to play with family and friends if that is what you choose to do. It doesn't change anyone else's choices or gameplay style. So, in the end who cares how many are allowed in your group as long as it is your group and only your group and solo people can still solo it if that's their choice.

Gear and skill checks that are 100% irrelevant once you're done with the quest and can go back to questing with your friend who, if necessary, can carry you.

Sakiri

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Molag Bal shouldn't be a cakewalk. Neither should Mannimarco.

And I don't understand people who cry for help at the first little problem they have, rather than trying to solve it themselves. That seems to be the modern way of thinking, though. But then, I also don't understand people who are afraid to be alone in the dark behind locked doors. I got used to that crap between ages 9-12, on top of having to check on my grandmother to make sure she wasn't dead.

Except that they *are* a cakewalk to some.

Only reason my last character wiped to Molag Bal was because of a bug that screwed up my entire thing in which I wolfed out and it bugged immediately.

My first character to Molag Bal one shot his butt.

Last character to do Mannimarco one shot him.

First character to do Mannimarco one shot him.

Did the Mage and Fighter's guild finales 6+ levels below the quests. And I have proof.

This doesn't change the fact that not everyone else is as skilled as I am, or you are, or whatever. Mandatory content in a game that's marketed at players that play TES games on the proverbial "I suck" difficulty mode because they don't give a hoot about challenge is the worst game design known to man.

Plenty of ways to challenge yourself without blocking off the majority of the game's character progression(including pretty much all future content) behind some kind of ridiculous skill check.

AngryNord

Sakiri wrote: »

Plenty of ways to challenge yourself without blocking off the majority of the game's character progression(including pretty much all future content) behind some kind of ridiculous skill check.

Amen

isengrimb16_ESO

Sakiri wrote: »

When I want a challenge in a solo quest, I make a challenge myself.

I recently did Will of the Council and The Mad God's Bargain at level 35.

I plan on doing it next time at 34, provided I actually get the quest then. That's when I got it this last time.

Oh, and when I did it this last time around? Templar. Destro/resto templar, but there was no impulse spam or any of the other gimmicks that people whine about. "Templars are broken!!!".. Sure. If they were completely broken I shouldn't be able to do that.

Ah.. Miss miss miss miss miss miss... That's fun. 5 minute harvester fight...

Yeah, well, first person nightbow. The only nightblade abilities I'm using right now is Swallow Soul and Drain Power (not morphed yet). The other three abilities are silver shards, venom arrow, and draining shot (knocks them back, but not me). I'm not in VR levels yet, but I came within a hair's breadth of beating Mannimarco on my first try AT LEVEL with ... I really don't keep too close track of my gear. lvl 44. I think I'm just going to finish Reaper's March once one or two quests are no longer bugged (to moonmont and that one with the mage dude) before I worry about that and the Coldharbour breadcrumb.

Major quest bosses should be able to scale according to the number of players present before players are able to invite their 50 bestest best friends in to beat it.

Is "To Moonmont" bugged because I already finished the Mane storyline?

Ysne58

I'm the one who is 15 levels higher than Lyris Doppleganger. I have updated armor and I have tried this and others frequently. I was 2 levels higher this time for Doshia and managed. The nerfed Gutstripper to the point where that one was painfully easy.

Anyone who tells me I'm doing something wrong is being an elitist jerk. The only boss I cannot handle at this point is the harvester. The tips I have gotten have allowed me to beat all the other bosses that I was not able to handle before -- so stop making those idiotic comments about how it's just me and I'm doing something incorrectly. Because you are the ones who are wrong here.

I do not expect vet content to be a cake walk. The forced solo content that I am unable to handle needs to be changed. Because I'm not the only one.

It's not to Moonmount that is bugged by the way @isengrimb16_ESO‌, its the part of the Moonlit Path quest where you need to defend the Green Lady and the Silvenar. The mobs you need to protect them are not spawning. The Arbordawn Cult quest where you need to protect the idiot Talengar has the exact same spawn issue.

@Sakiri‌ I will take a look at your video as soon as I have time. Thank you for posting it.

Ysne58

Sakiri wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

No. I am aware of all that conversation. I watched your video and it was not helpful.

Have you seen mine? It's the Lyris doppleganger but it applies to every other harvester in the game. Discounting bugs anyways.

http://youtu.be/My3CJE1vNNY

The only difference is I'm a nightblade. I did have to move the interupt to a different key bind because the lmb +rmb never once worked on this laptop. I moved it to the R button and moved ultimate to F4. Moved the quickslot to F2. That was months ago and that has helped.

These harvesters are currently bugged and I have reported this. There is also a bug where skills, attacks, dodges and interupts don't fire off. Between those two things, I do now understand why I cannot beat these fights while solo. Unless they fix those two bugs, I will never get past this point. They have had months, I'm not optimistic that this will get fixed.

I have my doubts that they will ever provide any other solutions either.

Grendel3232

I think we have spiraled off topic here. This should be about weather a person can play the whole game with a family member. It doesn't matter what steps the devs need to take to make sure people don't use this to cheat. They can give less experience, not give out any treasure and achievements or whatever needs to be done. The point is we don't want to cheat we just want to play together. If you want to talk about making things easier you should start another topic.

GreySix

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

2-4 levels overpowered for Doshia is not bad. Done that myself. If you can't kill that after 15 levels overpowered, you have a serious problem somewhere,

Waffles are tasty in the morning


... since we're discussing things that have nothing to do with the OP.

GreySix

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

No. It is not a cheating issue, nor an ego issue.

This system is in place as a way to check the skill of the player.

Yeah, because we really need a game to hand-hold us through learning critical "button mashing skilzzz" instead of just playing the game for fun

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

If this were removed and people were allowed to group or duo into the single player, main story instances then you would have all kinds of players that get to max level and still have never learned to play their characters.

And? So what? How would that adversely affect your playing experience?

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

Then those players that have no idea what they're doing with their own toons try to queue up for vet dungeons and cause all kinds of grief.

... and? So then you could do what you can do now - ignore them.

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

These missions are not difficult. If you can't beat them, you need to change how you're doing something. It's that simple.

So, then go beat the missions by yourself, thump your chest, and stroke your epeen.

Meanwhile, you've offered no logical reason for continuing to disallow cooperative play in currently solo-only instances.

Hawke

Sandmanninja wrote: »

What if an 8-year-old wants to play? I mean, just to run around and shoot deer and do things with her parents?

Aside the ESRB being M sure! Have your 8 year old run around playing the game.

No matter what I say, I am labeled by you, and for that I can do nothing about it.

I have run hundreds of quests in the game thus far, and maybe 10 or so total are solo only.

If someone is having trouble playing the game, then they need to practice fighting. Check their equipment and try it again. Nothing elitist about that, that is how life works. And no, this is not real life, but it is something that applies in this situation.

Some of the mobs are unbalanced. Yes I do die to trash mobs sometimes... the casters and archers hurt. If I am not rocking and rolling I get rolled and the mobs laugh at me as I recall to the shrine.

But, I figure out what happened, and I go again to make sure that doesn't happen next time.

The learning curve on the game is not that steep. Except for Doshia, there is nothing that hard to get through until your 20s. Well, vampire quest line at 23, that was a pain, but optional.


Now if the argument is to have people with you to enjoy the quest line dungeons that is something else entirely. They could have you able to go back in, probably with minimal xp/gold rewards after you complete it the first time and bring friends. That would be cool, if that is what you are after.

But alas, I am not an elitist. Anyone can review my post history on ESO, Age of Conan and even Star Citizen (I use Hawke but the account name is WarHawke) and just five minutes of searching, you will see that 98% of my posts are simply to help folks out.

Time to move on from this thread. Good luck but I hope they don't change the solo instances to grouped. There is no real reason.

Melian

GreySix wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

As for "it takes nothing away from you":

You could argue that it takes nothing away from me if you have the option to have the buff you have in the Molag Bal fight permanently and one-shot everything from level 1 to VR 12, or the option to turn off PvP in Cyrodil, or the option to do trials with 36 people and only "slightly" bump up the difficulty (let's not get carried away!) Personally I don't think giving the option to completely trivialize content is good for a game.

Straw Man fallacy.

Nobody was discussing any of that. We're discussing the option of eliminating solo-only instancing, with the understanding that those who wish to solo the same instances would still be allowed to continue doing so, whilst those who desired to group them would also be allowed to do so.

Nothing more, and nothing less.

Nope, because none of those things are fundamentally different from what you're suggesting, and the problems are the same. I did not say "what if these things were required" - I listed "options" just as you did. If they sound so different to you that you call it a straw man, it only shows what a blind spot you have regarding this pet issue of yours.

You want the option to trivialize content. Just calling it choice and leaving it at that is misleading.

None of what you brought up in any way, shape or form relates to the request I've posted in the OP - thus it is a straw man fallacy.

But since there appears to be confusion in regard to what I straw man fallacy is, here is a helpful definition:

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A (that would be me) has position X.
2. Person B (that would be you) presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

Did you read what I said?

I absolutely was attacking your position when I said I oppose the option to trivialize content. Those were examples, but my entire argument is summed up in that line, and you continue to ignore it. Why? Well, that's obvious: there is absolutely no way you can argue that that isn't exactly what you are asking for, but it doesn't sound as nicey nice as "I just want options! It doesn't affect anyone else!".

Come out and say it: you want an option that would completely trivialize the main and guild questlines, and you don't care. You want an ezmode you can't lose, and you can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with that in, as you're so fond of pointing out, AN MMO.

isengrimb16_ESO

Ysne58 wrote: »

I'm the one who is 15 levels higher than Lyris Doppleganger. I have updated armor and I have tried this and others frequently. I was 2 levels higher this time for Doshia and managed. The nerfed Gutstripper to the point where that one was painfully easy.

Anyone who tells me I'm doing something wrong is being an elitist jerk. The only boss I cannot handle at this point is the harvester. The tips I have gotten have allowed me to beat all the other bosses that I was not able to handle before -- so stop making those idiotic comments about how it's just me and I'm doing something incorrectly. Because you are the ones who are wrong here.

I do not expect vet content to be a cake walk. The forced solo content that I am unable to handle needs to be changed. Because I'm not the only one.

It's not to Moonmount that is bugged by the way @isengrimb16_ESO‌, its the part of the Moonlit Path quest where you need to defend the Green Lady and the Silvenar. The mobs you need to protect them are not spawning. The Arbordawn Cult quest where you need to protect the idiot Talengar has the exact same spawn issue.

@Sakiri‌ I will take a look at your video as soon as I have time. Thank you for posting it.

I did the entire moonlit path, and my chosen champion is now Mane. Perhaps that has something to do with it, I did the quests out of order.

And 15 levels, no, you should be overpowered after about five or so, certainly after the quest goes grey. I made bad choices on my first toon - a templar, too, and I need to analyze him before I do anything else with him; he's lvl 15. He's really weak. Though my nightbow feels really strong now lvl 44), possibly because of wiser choices.

I'm not trying to be an elitist jerk, I'm trying to figure out how someone can do more poorly than I do.

If it makes you feel better, I had to run away from Gutripper three times on my sorc. I'll come back in a level or two, when I have the mats to make missing gear and/or find a decent self-heal I can get.

Syrrisdevlin

the problem with this though is there are a couple quest first to come to mind are vampire and ww skill lines those are solo only and even though getting vamp is extreamly broken and a a lvl 10 can do it I know I did it...ww is a little bit harder but it also can be done fairly early in the lvls I did mine at lvl 25 if you could group in these then every one would have lvl 3 vamps and ww's but with those aside I wouldn't see aproblem with the core quests being group content

Melian

I see a pattern:

MMO creates content designed to challenge the average player and give them a sense of accomplishment when they complete it. They also include content to challenge the elite players, but most people never get there.
Below average players complain that they can't complete the normal content, and "this is supposed to be for everyone!", so it is nerfed, and the game is left with two tiers: terrible and pro. Average players have no way to get a sense of achievement, get bored and leave.

Giving an option of bypassing the normal difficulty only makes the content meaningless and neutralizes any pride and satisfaction players might get from completing it. "It's not hard! You shouldn't be proud!" the pros might say, but the stuff they take pride in is out of the question for most.

If the content is correctly balanced for the average player, there will always be a few at the end of the bell curve who can't do it - that's inevitable - but the game will be ruined by catering to those few. They can get very loud and whiny, and I feel sorry for them, but for once I want to enjoy a game without them ruining it.

AinGeal

I killed Doshia with my first character. Leather armor, DW, NB. Way back before many of the patches. While I was the same level as the boss.

If the game is too advanced for you, move on.

billp_ESO

Aside from whether some mobs are hard to solo, it makes sense to allow players to group with their friends. Many (most?) people wanted a multi-player Skyrim, or an MMO, and making them play solo is a bad idea.

Allow others to group with the quest owner, but they don't get credit if they are out of phase. Put a level cap on some encounters, so a lvl 50 can't help a lvl 10.

steveb16_ESO46

skeletorz_ESO wrote: »

No. It is not a cheating issue, nor an ego issue.

This system is in place as a way to check the skill of the player. If this were removed and people were allowed to group or duo into the single player, main story instances then you would have all kinds of players that get to max level and still have never learned to play their characters.

Then those players that have no idea what they're doing with their own toons try to queue up for vet dungeons and cause all kinds of grief.

So what? It's a game not Rollerball.