Request: Allow Grouping in Currently "Solo-Only" Instances

BadgerRider1

I just completed Doshia on my 2nd toon............man what a bummer. The first time was a multi-death, gear upgrade, talent respect effort. I was so elated when I finally got the *)#% down!

At this point and time, I don't really care about those who are having troubles or want to group through everything............give it to em!!!!!!!!!

Just don't nerf any more bosses.

Doshia used to be epic...........now Doshia is trash.

Sandmanninja

Allowing partied people the option of entering an instance changes absolutely nothing for you. Either you don't party up or you say, "Excuse me. Do you mind going to the bank or repairing your gear? I'd prefer to do this instance solo."

That way, you play how you want to play, which is fair.

Other people can say, "Hey Sweetie - wanna try that boss now? Accept my invite and let's go get him!"

That way, we can play how we want to play, which is fair.

Keep the boss exactly the same.
NOTHING ELSE CHANGES.

<shakes head>
I really don't understand how this isn't already in the game or how people want to complicate a very basic and simple concept.

Hawke

I have faced Doshia (and her level 43 equivalent) solo and she was challenging ( a little easier now because of the changes) but you just needed to use the basic combat skills.

I also faced not boss level, but not trash level versions of doshia also with others helping out, and she would go down faster than a $2 professional, if you know what I mean.

I think leaving it alone, keeping certain quests solo is fine. If you cannot progress through the Mage or Fighter quest lines at the level they are meant to be played at and have to wait 10 more levels or more to do them, well, it is what it is. You are not being confined to a certain zone, or unable to progress in the main story, so the Guilds are just extra.

Get better or get more levels to compensate. Not trying to be crass but, honestly, if the game gets "evened" out anymore, most of the gamers won't feel that challenge and may become bored.

Ysne58

Just because you can do it @Hawke doesn't mean I can. I'm level 45 and still cannot beat the level 30 main quest harvester. That does block off content. You telling me to learn to play or just level up is nonsense. It is not going to work and a whole lot of people can testify to all the different tactics I've tried.

I keep arguing for allowing grouping instead of nerfing so that the people who love the solo challenge can still do it. I have disabilities that make it even harder for me than the non-disabled people who are complaining about this totally unfair feature. The devs are keeping me from enjoying the game and I'm at a point where I am starting to think about giving up on this game. This is not ok. It is not fair. It is just plain stupid to keep this forced solo feature as forced solo.

Hawke

@Ysne58 your anger being directed to me is unjust. What level 30 main quest can you not do at level 45? I dont remember going solo or even fighting anything remotely that hard ever for the main quests.

Trolls and Daedards (whatever they are called) give me more trouble than anything else in the game.

And yes, I play a sorcerer, and yes, there are times which I look over to the Nightblade and the Dragonknight in envy, but then again, I have no skill points in my weapons or armor... *shrugs* Maybe one day.

Have you asked for help in your gameplay? Maybe take a video that shows your skill usage and your blocking/interrupts? I would be happy to assist.

GreySix

Hawke wrote: »

I have faced Doshia (and her level 43 equivalent) solo and she was challenging ( a little easier now because of the changes) but you just needed to use the basic combat skills.

Good for you.

Hawke wrote: »

I also faced not boss level, but not trash level versions of doshia also with others helping out, and she would go down faster than a $2 professional, if you know what I mean.

Again, good for you.

Hawke wrote: »

I think leaving it alone, keeping certain quests solo is fine.

I and many others disagree, and it has nothing to do with how difficult we believe an instance to be.

Let me post that part again, since its so critical to my argument:

It has NOTHING to do with how difficult we believe an instance to be.

Hawke wrote: »

If you cannot progress through the Mage or Fighter quest lines at the level they are meant to be played at and have to wait 10 more levels or more to do them, well, it is what it is. You are not being confined to a certain zone, or unable to progress in the main story, so the Guilds are just extra.

Note that the OP doesn't mention guild quests, but rather the main quest line.

Hawke wrote: »

Get better or get more levels to compensate. Not trying to be crass but, honestly, if the game gets "evened" out anymore, most of the gamers won't feel that challenge and may become bored.

Ah, I see. It always comes down to variants of this weak-kneed argument:

The game is designed the way it is and is unalterable, so L2P or GTFO.

So once again, zero logical points brought forth to continue barring cooperative play in currently solo-only instances.

Ysne58

Umm, did you even read what I posted? I've been asking for and getting advice since early beta. I've changed everything out over and over except for my class because I don't like any other class. @Hawke you made a comment about how nothing should be changed and anyone can do this. Like I said, just because you can doesn't mean everyone can.

Sandmanninja

I don't like Elitist comments or people.
@Hawke, just please explain how allowing people to group for currently-solo-only quests hurts you? You can still stand tall and beat your chest. "Ugh! Hawke Beat Bad Man. Hawke Strong! L2P Newbs!"

Good for you.

Some of us are adults with partners/wives/husbands and we just enjoy doing things together.

And I promise you, other Elitists, and ZOS, if my wife decides to give up on this game because we can't group and run content together, we're going back to WoW.

Hawke

@Ysne58 do you remember the whole Doshia thing back in April? People were going nuts about her being too hard. Because of X class or Y weapon or Z armor. I kept trying to inform people to use interrupts and blocks and you can way further than using any class ability.

I hit a breaking point and finally created a video and for the first time actually spoke in my video. Normally I just tune it to some epic tunes and rock out. But it all came down to understanding the mechanics.

Now are some bosses fair? No, Fricking Raven lady in Blackheart keeps bugging out and going invisible and hitting for 3000 damage...

But the main quest.. 15 level difference, something sounds off. Like I said, please feel free to make a video showing your skills and passives invested, armor, weapons, your hotbar, and show how you are fighting and dying. I have no problem to help out, play Monday night quarterback and all. Maybe I, or someone else here can see how you could streamline your gameplay.

Ysne58

No. I am aware of all that conversation. I watched your video and it was not helpful.

Hawke

@Sandmanninja what in the hell are you talking about? I am not an elitist. My highest level character just hit 44 today. I have 5 days /played on him and have been playing since the 5 day head start.

Because I have a job, a wife, a family and other commitments. That is why I made videos on how to fight in this game to help people understand how the combat system differs than what they are used to.

If that is elitist, well.... I guess trying to help is evil.

Hawke

Ysne58 wrote: »

No. I am aware of all that conversation. I watched your video and it was not helpful.

@Ysne58 well I am sorry.

Like I said, make the video up, and I'll check it out. Why not exercise all your options?

Ysne58

I'm sure you have helped others. However, I am done. I am seriously thinking about giving up on ESO until this issue is dealt with. I'm sorry some people think you are an elitist. I've just had more than I can take with the frustation of bugged harvesters, and I have described how they are bugged in other posts,

Hawke

@Ysne58 *shrugs* I offered to help out. If you ever try again, like I said, just take a video. If you feel like you dont want everyone to see it, just PM the link to me.

And yes, I too am sorry people think I am an elitist.

Good luck man.

Cogo

I Did Doisha at lvl 12. It was very hard, but I made it. And this alone showed me....hey, this game actually gives you challenges. I did not know about the awesome Instance AI then.

I did Doisha before the nerf btw.

And the Doisha quest is perfectly optional. NO ONE forces you to do it.

The main quest line is forced, yes. I still belive it should be Solo only.

I did suggest the option for anyone to simply remove their character from the main quest line, so they dont have to to do it, and still be able to progress like everyone else.

Hnightblazenub18_ESO

Put as simply as possible, this post is about a players ability to enjoy ESO no matter their play style of choice.

Ability to choose to Solo Quest = Ok, Good
Ability to choose to play all content with friends and family = Ok, Good
FORCED Solo questing = Not Good
FORCED group questing = Not Good

I like playing and must play solo a lot of the time. This does not bother me in the least. However, I also enjoy teaming up at times, and fail to understand how my being able to "Choose" to run a group through the entirety of TESO adversely or really in any way effects anyone else.

Sandmanninja

@Hawke - Making fun of other people's play style and ability. That's Elitist. And here's a clue - if multiple people think the SAME THING about you/your personality, then it's time you accept the info and consider some personality changes.

Please realise that some people don't play this game to be the best NB or DK or to master all of the skills. They do it because they enjoy the social aspect of it. They like either role playing or simply questing with friends and family. Period. That's it. That's all some people like to do.

Once again, do not change the difficulty of the boss.
Just allow groups to run together in the same party.
Let the person enter the instance first, so the game knows who to give the 'credit' to for that run. All members exit. The other person enters the instance first.

What if an 8-year-old wants to play? I mean, just to run around and shoot deer and do things with her parents?

Ysne58

I do not believe it does adversely affect anyone else. The current state is adversely affecting me.

Hawke

@Sandmanninja I never made fun of anyone in their short comings. I offer help and advice and instructional videos to help them understand the combat system.

Even when I said, "get better or gain more levels..." was never said in any negative connotation.

The ONLY person that called me an elitist is you, sir. I believe if you go through and read again what I wrote, you will see that you had made an error in your judgment of me and my intentions for those who are having trouble.

Heck, you can even see my post history and discover a pattern of behavior that helps others.

dietlime

GreySix wrote: »

This request is targeted to developers, and yes, I did request this through the in-game reporting system as well, but received no feedback.

Now I realize up front that many who post here are "serious" gamers who've likely already maxed out one or more characters (though perhaps not through all the veteran levels). My perspective is from that of a working man who casually plays games like these cooperatively with my wife in the evenings. Our characters are currently at Level 18.

What we are seeking is the option to group together in dungeons that currently force solo-only play within the main quest line. Specifically, I'm referring to the main quest line, though such options would be nice to see in the popular side quests like the Fighters and Mages Guilds.

I offer SWTOR as an example of what worked nicely in regard to grouping (and they got a lot of other things wrong): At no time, could my wife and I not group content. Don't misunderstand: What I propose below would not disable solo-only play; those who desired to fight instances solo would still be able to do so.

Current configuration:

1. There are public dungeons, where it is first-come, first-served. I'm not referring to those.
2. There are instanced dungeons that allow either solo-only instances or grouped instances. Keep those as are, since they facilitate player choice.
3. There are currently solo-only dungeons, wherein grouping is not allowed.

Proposal: Modify Number 3 to allow what we see in Number 2 . Solo players would still be allowed to solo such content without seeing other players, and grouped players would be allowed to group such instances. If the levels/HPs/whatever of baddies and bosses would need to be increased based on the group size, I'd be fine with that.

But please offer us the choice we enjoyed in such MMOs as SWTOR.

I second this request very strongly. My girlfriend isn't as skilled as I am and my absence in the most challenging fights in the 1-50 game has been "just quit" discouraging for her.

I see no reason you can't apply a numerical buff to everything in those instances (the enemies) and let two players co-opt them.

Sandmanninja

Hawke wrote: »

@Sandmanninja I never made fun of anyone in their short comings. I offer help and advice and instructional videos to help them understand the combat system.

Even when I said, "get better or gain more levels..." was never said in any negative connotation.

The ONLY person that called me an elitist is you, sir. I believe if you go through and read again what I wrote, you will see that you had made an error in your judgment of me and my intentions for those who are having trouble.

Heck, you can even see my post history and discover a pattern of behavior that helps others.

I am describing your attitude, sir.
They sky is blue. It's not a bad thing to call it blue. Just accurate.

But I'm losing focus.

What the majority of the community seems the be crying out for is something you're opposed to. Your solution is they get better. Just comes off as Elitist.

Hawke

Sandmanninja wrote: »

What the majority of the community seems the be crying out for is something you're opposed to. Your solution is they get better. Just comes off as Elitist.

@Sandmanninja Telling someone who has great difficulty in parallel parking to learn the technique or practice alot and in time try it again is elitist? More like Practical. But I am doing more than that, I am offering to help that person instead of writing them off.

You can use any other example out there where people are having trouble accomplishing a task where practice could be the key, or perhaps they are missing a vital step in the process, or maybe you can show them a better way doing things.

That is not elitism, that is trying to help those out who are struggling or would like to keep up with the pack.

And I am sorry you feel that way. Truly am.

dietlime

Regardless the Veteran game is going to skill check you as a group eventually anyway, so there is no reasonable argument.

I have read the entire thread and there are only three categories of people:

1.) Egotistically wants to exclude any player who can't meet their bar of skill, which is the main quest apparently.

2.) Too stupid to understand the idea at all, apparently having never played a single player game. Convinced this would cause overarching balance changes making the main quest no longer solo-able. Variably difficulty / scaling is truly mysterious.

3.) Fully supporting allowing a party of 2 to play the Main Quest,

possibly with the stipulation that all the enemies in that instance are given extra health and damage - only while that instance has more than one player present.

Sandmanninja

Practical? More like aligning their thought processes to match your own.

You are COMPLETELY missing the point.

There are people in this game that DON'T WANT TO PARALLEL PARK. EVER.
They are happy riding in the back seat with a friend or family member driving.

You do not get this basic concept.

Just try to open your mind to the possibility that not everyone wants to play the SAME WAY AS YOU.

Some people love PvP - that's great. Some people like to Role Play - that's great. Some people LITERALLY log on and spend 75% of their time chit-chatting in zone chat. That's great, too.

Odds are, the people that are struggling have tried solo numerous times. Numerous. To the point of being so frustrated that they are not having fun in a game. There are no videos that will help them press buttons faster or get better gear. And ya know what? They don't want to. They tried it. Can't do it. And on the verge of giving up on the game. Period.

To force someone down a path of progression that requires them to adopt a play style that they do not want is not good. Forget bugs. I can forgive and work around bugs. If the main quest line forces me to solo content that I simply cannot solo, then I will no longer give money to ZOS. This one thing will ultimately cost ZOS subscribers. Good subscribers, too. The ones that hung in there through the bugs. The ones the defend server maintenance. They will leave. And I don't blame them.

I'm VR2 and I'm enjoying the Vet Content in other region's. But I miss my wife at my side. I'm just glad her work is conflicting with her play schedule. But when that work situation is resolved and if ZOS hasn't fixed this particular issue, then they'll lose 3 subs (her's, son's, mine). I'd rather go back to WoW than play this without her.

dietlime

I don't know, I didn't read your post because you started typing in all caps for emphasis which is really juvenile. It just seemed inflammatory and the issue is so simply cut and dry there really isn't any argument to be made.

So yeah I don't even know which side you're on here, but the clear and major consensus among the player base is that ESO would be a better game if:

-Default behavior upon entering a main quest instance was the current single player, private experience.

-Only invited friends could join your party, and therefore your main quest instance; accompanied by a percentage-based increase to the difficulty of that instance for each player.

isengrimb16_ESO

I still think they are meant as gear and skill checks, and I would not like to see people group-zerging these, as it would require the things to be tuned beyond the possibility of soloing and would destroy their purpose as checks.

If anything, make them duoable, but no more than that. And if duos complain about how easy it is to take down bosses, don't listen.

I got within a hair's breadth of taking down Mannimarco on my first try (everything before him being almost breezy); I need to come back later when I'm better.

Hnightblazenub18_ESO

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

I still think they are meant as gear and skill checks, and I would not like to see people group-zerging these, as it would require the things to be tuned beyond the possibility of soloing and would destroy their purpose as checks.

If anything, make them duoable, but no more than that. And if duos complain about how easy it is to take down bosses, don't listen.

I can mostly agree with this. As I said before I don't care about them raising the difficulty. To me it is just the simple fact of being able to play with family and friends if that is what you choose to do. It doesn't change anyone else's choices or gameplay style. So, in the end who cares how many are allowed in your group as long as it is your group and only your group and solo people can still solo it if that's their choice.

isengrimb16_ESO

Ysne58 wrote: »

Just because you can do it @Hawke doesn't mean I can. I'm level 45 and still cannot beat the level 30 main quest harvester. That does block off content. You telling me to learn to play or just level up is nonsense. It is not going to work and a whole lot of people can testify to all the different tactics I've tried.

I keep arguing for allowing grouping instead of nerfing so that the people who love the solo challenge can still do it. I have disabilities that make it even harder for me than the non-disabled people who are complaining about this totally unfair feature. The devs are keeping me from enjoying the game and I'm at a point where I am starting to think about giving up on this game. This is not ok. It is not fair. It is just plain stupid to keep this forced solo feature as forced solo.

<shakes head> If you can't beat a lvl 30 as a lvl 45, there's something wrong with you, mate, as much as I hate to say it. Disability aside. ESO was never meant to be a WoW snoozefest, where you can dream your way to about lvl 88 (when you hit Dread Wastes and its packs of bug warriors that fly where you can't - and if you do dungeons, you can bypass their nonsense completely.)

I heard vet content is brutal. How do you expect to survive it, if you can't even pass boss checks after 15 levels?

I think the problem is that nowadays, everyone expects to have someone backing them up; there's no such thing as standing on your own two feet - that's unsociable redneckism under today's ideology. ESO guys are a little bit more old-fashioned than that, and they DO hark back to the old TABLETOP games where even a healer couldn't just stand around just healing like an ignored dummy.

You need to have a brutal attitude. "No, I don't care that my own might be convelescing in that MASH unit. Bomb the ***, because anyone who gets hurt and captured is a weakling failure. Kill all the damn healers first." The geneva convention hates that, but it doesn't exist on Nirn anyway.

Grand_Wazoo

At my age, I can say I've been video gaming since PONG (for the hip and trendy, this is not an acronym, but the most fabulous game available at that time). As an older player, I can say that I really don't give a damn who is better than I am at just about anything. I think Zenimax missed the mark a little by requiring solo-only instances, like Hearts Grief where you must pummel Molag Bal into submission. I soloed the game up to veteran rank 1 with a sorcerer using a destruction staff. I was able to overcome all the bosses with a fair amount of trial and error...BUT...when it came to beating Molag Bal to a pulp with magic and a staff, well, that didn't go so well. In fact, it didn't work at all, and after spending over 10k in repairs and several repeated attempts using different techniques and combinations of this and that...no way he was going down. After residing myself to the fact that I could not beat him, I finally ended up deleting that veteran rank character and started over from scratch with a different setup.
I brought up my experience to chime in on this thread because I agree with the school of though that there should be NO solo-only instances in this game. After spending many hours of effort and careful planning with my veteran rank sorcerer, not being able to enjoy the veteran rank content was a game killer for me. I'm not a fabulous uber gamer, I just want to enjoy the game. I don't have anything to prove with this game or care if I impress anyone, I just want to enjoy the game. I don't go to Cyrodil any more because my experience there was not dissimilar from my experience with EVE Online. My wife and I enjoy this game very much, as we have all the Elder Scrolls games; from Arena to ESO. When my wife encounters a difficult boss that she has to kill solo, she has me do it for her, because she is not an uber gamer either...its just that I play more than she does and it's better to avoid the frustration if possible. From the both of us, we very much hope that Zenimax will reconsider the concept of solo-only instances in this game, and allow those who wish to group to play what is currently solo-only to do so, as our success or failure in those instances would not affect other players.
For the record, I think Zenimax has developed a phenomenal game and is doing a great job overcoming the cheaters and exploiters. Lately, I am seeing more gaming hours where I see NO bots, lots of resources available, and no spam in my game email. Keep up the good work, and please listen to us regarding the issue many have with solo instances!

isengrimb16_ESO

Molag Bal shouldn't be a cakewalk. Neither should Mannimarco.

And I don't understand people who cry for help at the first little problem they have, rather than trying to solve it themselves. That seems to be the modern way of thinking, though. But then, I also don't understand people who are afraid to be alone in the dark behind locked doors. I got used to that crap between ages 9-12, on top of having to check on my grandmother to make sure she wasn't dead.