Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

nicholaspingasb16_ESO

No

NookyZooky wrote: »

no
they should not
there are other ways to solve the AOE spamming problem
A. put a cooldown on them
B. substantially increase AOE cost
C. reduce AOE damage
D. make players using AOEs have reduced armor and spell resistance, forcing them to have their team with them, so one guy cant kill 10 people

Samadhi

No

Samadhi wrote: »

I'm a Nightblade; 0 AoEs in my build; Spend all my time in Cyrodiil either solo or in a duo party with my girlfriend (full healing build Templar), never a larger group than 2; I PvP there daily, sometimes I run with the Zerg, other times I go around hunting and PKing enemy players.

I don't like this proposed change.

Heh.

April 26th I knew I would have problems as a Single-Target build.
Yet, after 20+ skill respecs, multiple sets of gear and trying as many specs as I could, AoE caps still killed it for me.

I give up. I'm respeccing to an AoE build until the cap is lifted and playing as single-target becomes as enjoyable as it was in beta and at launch again.

FENGRUSH

No

FENGRUSH disapproves.

BossTuggles

No

THE POLL IS IN, 84% of the people said no. What do you think they did?

supernico

monumental bump *thumb up*

FENGRUSH

No

Yes: 497 votes
No: 3392 votes

Coming full circle after about a year we went through implementing AOE caps to doing a partial removal. Theres not even 3392 people in the game to play within cyrodiil anymore.

Maybe @ZOS_BrianWheeler should begin considering the opinions of players a bit more seriously on the forums. Not to revisit history - but this is a great example of how the community strongly opposed something and the team went along with it for whatever reason. Worst of all, they got it wrong, have performed a poor attempt at reverting it and as a result we have terrible performance and fights that can last forever, killing the server.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler - if your intention is for 24-48 person groups to be stacking on top of each other and flood heals barriers purge, can you just clearly communicate that so those of us that hang around can just cut loose from this game for good? Performance put aside, do you look at this and consider this your desired final product for large scale PVP? Or do you want 24 group people doing more than focusing on their location and flooding either AOE heal or AOE damage.

Every thread (even the PVP one), your replies really steer away from what youd like to see. Would love to hear your vision on large scale PvP in a bit more detail compared to what we have today (performance killing/freezing for 5mins put aside).

RinaldoGandolphi

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yes: 497 votes
No: 3392 votes



if your intention is for 24-48 person groups to be stacking on top of each other and flood heals barriers purge, can you just clearly communicate that so those of us that hang around can just cut loose from this game for good? Performance put aside, do you look at this and consider this your desired final product for large scale PVP? Or do you want 24 group people doing more than focusing on their location and flooding either AOE heal or AOE damage.

Glad someone else is seeing things for what they really are.

BossTuggles

No

Its funny seeing some people who voted yes to this are still around and are complaining about *** that this change caused

Rook_Master

No

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Yes: 497 votes
No: 3392 votes

Coming full circle after about a year we went through implementing AOE caps to doing a partial removal. Theres not even 3392 people in the game to play within cyrodiil anymore.

Maybe @ZOS_BrianWheeler should begin considering the opinions of players a bit more seriously on the forums. Not to revisit history - but this is a great example of how the community strongly opposed something and the team went along with it for whatever reason. Worst of all, they got it wrong, have performed a poor attempt at reverting it and as a result we have terrible performance and fights that can last forever, killing the server.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler - if your intention is for 24-48 person groups to be stacking on top of each other and flood heals barriers purge, can you just clearly communicate that so those of us that hang around can just cut loose from this game for good? Performance put aside, do you look at this and consider this your desired final product for large scale PVP? Or do you want 24 group people doing more than focusing on their location and flooding either AOE heal or AOE damage.

Every thread (even the PVP one), your replies really steer away from what youd like to see. Would love to hear your vision on large scale PvP in a bit more detail compared to what we have today (performance killing/freezing for 5mins put aside).

A million times, this.

It's so sad how a post from 14 months is right on the money in terms of the impact this has had on the game.

BossTuggles

No

IT just goes to show how little the people who are running this game actually know. I mean lets not forget about that awesome lighting patch. 1.2.4 Patch DYNAMIC LIGHTING PVP
https://youtube.com/watch?v=irbdQQjVX3o&feature=player_embedded

Hypertionb14_ESO

the sad thing is, removing or adding AOE caps did literally nothing to stop stacking..

the amount of heals is so much greater than anything a non stack group can possibly dish out that there is literally no point in fighting a blob with anything less than another blob..

boring as *** if you ask me..

Nerf Purge, Nerf AOE, Nerf Healing

Nerf what needs to be Nerfed in order to stop stacking cold.... thats the only way its going to end..

blobs will only die when blobs start easily dieing.

BossTuggles

No

AoE is supposed to be how you fight these blobs. This change DEFINITELY made stacking a thing.

c0rp

No

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

the sad thing is, removing or adding AOE caps did literally nothing to stop stacking..

the amount of heals is so much greater than anything a non stack group can possibly dish out that there is literally no point in fighting a blob with anything less than another blob..

boring as *** if you ask me..

Nerf Purge, Nerf AOE, Nerf Healing

Nerf what needs to be Nerfed in order to stop stacking cold.... thats the only way its going to end..

blobs will only die when blobs start easily dieing.

Because we got a half-assed "hybrid" aoe cap system that does nothing to address the problem. Zergs still receive a MASSIVE passive damage reduction % by forming a ball.

FENGRUSH

No

c0rp wrote: »

Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »

the sad thing is, removing or adding AOE caps did literally nothing to stop stacking..

the amount of heals is so much greater than anything a non stack group can possibly dish out that there is literally no point in fighting a blob with anything less than another blob..

boring as *** if you ask me..

Nerf Purge, Nerf AOE, Nerf Healing

Nerf what needs to be Nerfed in order to stop stacking cold.... thats the only way its going to end..

blobs will only die when blobs start easily dieing.

Because we got a half-assed "hybrid" aoe cap system that does nothing to address the problem. Zergs still receive a MASSIVE passive damage reduction % by forming a ball.

Dont worry, you can hit everyon in that ball group! Just not very hard!

Imdrefan

No

For these people saying AOE caps don't make a difference go look at some of the videos on youtube of closed beta and 3 people stealth ulti bombing full raids not paying attention.

bosmern_ESO

No

Someone already suggested this before I did (I thought of it on my own but was told someone suggested it already so give him credit)

Make AoE's scale up in damage based on number of targets hit. So if a small group of survivable players jump into a zerg they're dealing tons of damage to them, and if they're coordinated, they could probably wipe the zerg.

But then there is the fact that the servers are already having trouble and then when ZoS increased the AoE cap to 60 it put more numbers going through the system which made matters worse, and that would only just add more numbers...

BossTuggles

No

Thats the thing we had no AoE caps at launch and we can all agree there were alot morw players. This means all of the AoE calculations right now are taking a much greater toll than the non cap calculations.

Ace_SiN

No

Completely remove the cap already.. If my AoE does 10k+ damage then it should hit all 60+ people for that amount of damage. I guarantee zergs will no longer do their ball of death tactic that's been popular since these caps were put in place. Or, if they do, they'll be handing out free AP and spend more time running then spamming AoEs.

TBois

No

The poll is overwhelmingly one sided. I hope Zos is considering a change back to no aoe cap

BossTuggles

No

This poll was made before they even implemented AoE caps. This is a necro bump to point out the absurdity that is Zos.

Tripwyr

No

I think this thread is pretty clear.

Taonnor

No

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I think you need to adjust the AoC cap again and remove them completly. With the new patch the Zergs are much much more powerful, because of the dmg reduce at 6+ targets.

See this thread -> Why do zergs get 57.5% free damage reduction?

With the new reduced dmg the mitigation in a Zerg is so high, that 50+ people blobs nealry impossible to kill now.

So please! Remove that AoE cap!

Draxys

No

Taonnor wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I think you need to adjust the AoC cap again and remove them completly. With the new patch the Zergs are much much more powerful, because of the dmg reduce at 6+ targets.

See this thread -> Why do zergs get 57.5% free damage reduction?

With the new reduced dmg the mitigation in a Zerg is so high, that 50+ people blobs nealry impossible to kill now.

So please! Remove that AoE cap!

that 50+ actually IS impossible to kill unless you have your own giant swarm or they are really really really bad

_Chaos

No

@ZOS_RichLambert
Take a look at the poll outcome that over 4000 people participated in.
Please act accordingly. It wouldn't hurt even just to try out for a week or two.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler
This would benefit the performance in Cyrodiil that your team has been so avid on improving. (Less calculations, less sustained fights versus overwhelming numbers)
IMO this should be a top 3 priority.

Ishammael

No

I'm going to go ahead and necro this.

Wollust

No

Well, we have seen what we got from having it. Can we get rid of the aoe caps now? Please?

Etaniel

No

Ishammael wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and necro this.

nice one !

Joy_Division

No

RivenVII wrote: »

SPEAK UP! We need to make our voices heard and that this change is NOT okay!

Such a noble sentiment. I too was once idealistic. Just wow, look at that poll. What's even the point of trying to give feedback?

Aquanova

Haduis wrote: »

I've made a few posts about this topic.

One thing I will say: vamp needs a nerf.

I see two types of arguments about the changes.

On one hand we have people (like myself) who don't like this change because it negates the importance of skill, positioning, timing, and teamwork.

On the other hand, you have people who do like this change, because in their opinion AOE abilities are overpowered.

AOE abilities have a direct counter. They aren't one hit "I win" buttons. You literally have to be within a small radius of the spells effect. Some would argue that spreading out or crowd control is a counter to this.

On the other hand, zergs have a counter. This counter is uncapped aoe abilities. If aoe abilities are given a cap then this counterplay disappears.

With that said, I haven't seen anything else that really screams overpowered to me (outside of vamp abilities). I've gotten caught with bad positioning and lived because I spread out from the clump as soon as I realized AOEs were being dropped.

If you and a dozen other people stand in range of 5 people spamming impulse, you should die. It isn't that hard to spread out. It isn't that hard to use crowd control.

Let me give you some perspective on my thoughts on the issue:

Pretend Bob plays a melee class. Bob only has melee abilities on his bar. I'm talking a bar filled to the brim with 7 meter range abilities. He has no gap closers, CC immunities, etc.


Now say Bob gets attacked by a bow nightblade. The nightblade has snares, knock backs, and ranged damage.

Bob tries to fight back, but he doesn't have the proper abilities on his bars. Every time he gets close, the nightblade gets away from him.

Bob dies, and gets upset. Bob thinks that ranged abilities need a nerf. He doesn't think that the way he plays the game needs to change, he's doing FINE. It's those NIGHTBLADES that are too overpowered, they need a nerf.

Now if Bob had some gap closers and crowd control on his bars, he would have had a chance. Just because Bob doesn't understand the counters to a specific playstyle doesn't mean that the playstyle is inherently broken, it just means that Bob needs to find a way to beat that playstyle.

PvP games, especially the best ones, rely on an ever-changing metagame. New strategies evolve to beat the "best strategies" that exist. B beats A, so B becomes popular. C beats B, so now C becomes popular. Just because something is difficult to counter doesn't mean it deserves a massive nerf. Only when strategies and abilities have no counter at all do they need to be nerfed.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Area of Effect abilities have a direct counter (read: they can be beaten)

Spread out.

Don't stand close to each other and you obliterate the usefulness of AOE abilities.

Use crowd control. Have you seen what happens to these smaller numbers when they get crowd controlled, even for a few seconds? They get annihilated.

"Outside of vamp abilities"? WTF are you talking about? Bats? Are you seriously saying it's OP and needs a nerf? You explained in your own"Area of Effect abilities" section how to counter it. If you think it's OP you really need to L2P.

Asmael

No

Aquanova wrote: »

Haduis wrote: »

I've made a few posts about this topic.

One thing I will say: vamp needs a nerf.

I see two types of arguments about the changes.

On one hand we have people (like myself) who don't like this change because it negates the importance of skill, positioning, timing, and teamwork.

On the other hand, you have people who do like this change, because in their opinion AOE abilities are overpowered.

AOE abilities have a direct counter. They aren't one hit "I win" buttons. You literally have to be within a small radius of the spells effect. Some would argue that spreading out or crowd control is a counter to this.

On the other hand, zergs have a counter. This counter is uncapped aoe abilities. If aoe abilities are given a cap then this counterplay disappears.

With that said, I haven't seen anything else that really screams overpowered to me (outside of vamp abilities). I've gotten caught with bad positioning and lived because I spread out from the clump as soon as I realized AOEs were being dropped.

If you and a dozen other people stand in range of 5 people spamming impulse, you should die. It isn't that hard to spread out. It isn't that hard to use crowd control.

Let me give you some perspective on my thoughts on the issue:

Pretend Bob plays a melee class. Bob only has melee abilities on his bar. I'm talking a bar filled to the brim with 7 meter range abilities. He has no gap closers, CC immunities, etc.


Now say Bob gets attacked by a bow nightblade. The nightblade has snares, knock backs, and ranged damage.

Bob tries to fight back, but he doesn't have the proper abilities on his bars. Every time he gets close, the nightblade gets away from him.

Bob dies, and gets upset. Bob thinks that ranged abilities need a nerf. He doesn't think that the way he plays the game needs to change, he's doing FINE. It's those NIGHTBLADES that are too overpowered, they need a nerf.

Now if Bob had some gap closers and crowd control on his bars, he would have had a chance. Just because Bob doesn't understand the counters to a specific playstyle doesn't mean that the playstyle is inherently broken, it just means that Bob needs to find a way to beat that playstyle.

PvP games, especially the best ones, rely on an ever-changing metagame. New strategies evolve to beat the "best strategies" that exist. B beats A, so B becomes popular. C beats B, so now C becomes popular. Just because something is difficult to counter doesn't mean it deserves a massive nerf. Only when strategies and abilities have no counter at all do they need to be nerfed.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Area of Effect abilities have a direct counter (read: they can be beaten)

Spread out.

Don't stand close to each other and you obliterate the usefulness of AOE abilities.

Use crowd control. Have you seen what happens to these smaller numbers when they get crowd controlled, even for a few seconds? They get annihilated.

"Outside of vamp abilities"? WTF are you talking about? Bats? Are you seriously saying it's OP and needs a nerf? You explained in your own"Area of Effect abilities" section how to counter it. If you think it's OP you really need to L2P.

Quoting someone from April 2014 aren't we?

By then vamps were indeed totally broken, but as was the entire balance considering the few vids I have seen.

Still. NO to AoE caps.