Do you think there should be an AoE cap?

NordJitsu

No

@TheGrandAlliance‌

No. AoE means "Area of Effect." Turn that around and what do you get?

An AREA of Effect should affect an AREA.

How does target capping the ability jive with that definition?

Neil DeGrassus Tyson wouldn't disagree that grenades don't arbitrarily stop killing people because they've already killed a certain number. Your analogy is absurd.

Ganksalot

No

ROFL!! Did you just compare magic and real life physics? Enough said /ignore

RaZaddha

No

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

No. Area of Effect means it should affect an area.

You don't throw a grenade in a room and hit only 6/20 people.

You hit everyone in the blast radius.

Explain to me how a firery magical explosion should be different in "realism" terms (lolollol).

Correction: You only hit 6/20 people or whatever hard... the rest only have pieces to hit them. Ones further away take less damage and further still takes less.


AoE just means it hits targest in a range vs single target. Doesn't mean it has unlimited energy to hit everything, everywhere. The "Law of the Conservation of Energy" is still in effect even with magic. The lore does explain how magic works in-game in the various lorebooks... it isn't some "unlimited attack". Try reading sometimes... it is a skill.

Have Neil deGrassus Tyson or whatever (host of COMOS TV show) explain the ways of physics to you... then try again.

Neil is disappointed in you.

Physics 101:

Fire:
Fire needs 3 things to work: Fuel, Oxygen and Heat.
When I set the ground on fire and theres 20 people on it they are all going to burn, why? Because fire spreads, you can't stop it easily, it's going to keep burning your clothes, your weapons, anything thats flammable, even your hair. No matter how many people actually stand on the fire they are all going to burn and make the flame bigger because they are all "fuel", you are not removing neither of the 3 components for fire to work, by adding more people to the fire you are not removing oxygen, neither the heat or the fuel, so, conclusion: the more people inside a fire, the stronger it becomes, because you are literally adding fuel to it.


Frag grenade:
A frag grenade works by sending small projectiles in every direction plus a small blast. The projectiles are easily blocked of course, but they literally explode in every direction, so it doesn't matter how many people are around the grenade, if you can see the grenade, you are going to get hit, some prejectiles can travel farter than 200m.

High Explosive:
An explosion will create "blast waves", they work just like ripples, they expand and lose force with distance, but they have an interesting property, they reflect. Reflection of a blast wave can also be seen from ripples in the water, if you disturb an body of water and the ripples touch an obstacle some of it's energy will be absorbed by the obstacle, but the rest will literally "reflect" and invert it's direction. So from that we can conclude that a HE can actually be more effective in confined spaces due to reflections of waves.
Example:
One person stands near to an explosion, that person will receive a determined amount of damage from the explosion. Now 10 people stand around an explosion, individually they will take more damage than the first explosion, because some force of the blast waves reflect on the people and go back and hit other people again.

Electricity:
It's simple, it will always try to go for the path with least resistance, the more people together the more the electricity spreads out, because body resistance is less than ground resistance and so electricity feels more "attracted" to another persons body, Depending on resistance Electricity loses more or less of it's energy during it's course.

Blunt force:
It works similar to electricity, the first will suffer it in full, the second less, the third even less and etc. That is, if I'm hitting more than one person with one hit, if I conjure 20 hammers from the air, at least 20 people are getting hit full force.

Ice:
Thermodynamics, the more heat around the ice, the faster it melts, the easier way to understand it is that the more the people the higher the "average" temperature you will have. If a mage transform the ground on ice that freezes you if you touch it, the temperature is so low, so low, it will probably freeze your whole raid before the ice starts to melt, if you don't die from the thermal shock.

Apply those concepts to the game:
Fire: Any place on fire actually burns harder the more people on it.
Frag Grenade: It will hit the first target in ALL directions.
HE: The more people around it or the more confined the place, the more destructive it is, but the further you are from the center, the less power it has.
Electricity: People around you will also suffer from electricity, the first will suffer it full, the second less, the third even less and so on due to body resistance and loss of energy due to heat.
Blunt Force: Same as lighting, but you kinda need to be in a line or something similar for it to work, different types of powers will have different ways of force mitigation.
Ice: For ice to be anywhere dangerous it needs to be a temperature so low, so low that you will need around 100 guys around it to "absorb" it to make it harmless.

Do I need to dumb it down further so your kindergarten brain can understand?

Try again Alliance, you don't know *** about science or "Energy Conservation", you are a guy who watched Big Bang Theory and thought you are a new genius of science. It's actually more realistic to have no AoE cap or loss of power the further from the center than it is to have an arbitrary number. Thinking that throwing the name Neil Degrasse Tyson is going to make you smarter just makes you look like a fool, a fool who thinks it makes sense to try and apply real life physics simulation on a fantasy game, a fool who thinks it's more realistic that the spear that I just invoked from the sky and has a burning heat around it actually should just burn a limited number of targets.

Keep posting, you are actually funny and it's an enlightening thing to remember basic physics all over again just to destroy your posts

Digerati

No

just for those keeping score:
Those who have voiced their opposition to the AoE cap account for more than $590,000 in annual revenue.

TheGrandAlliance

Yes

@RaZaddha‌


"NERD WAR MODE ACTIVATE"

Having a big long post may make you look smart: Nonetheless you fail to consider how much energy was put into the system in the first place. Mage's do not summon ultra cold ice or ultra hot fire when the magicka cost being used for an attack is as small as it is in game. Warrior's stamina cost is too small to me epic overpowered.

Granted... trying to "measure" the physical nature of magic of a video game most certain to qualify as a "Nerd War". Nonetheless:


AoE's attacks players have access to generally do not use much magicka. Therefore... although visually impressive, their attacks would do far less damage then higher cost attacks used by video game bosses. Also in "fantasy" games: It appears that lifeforms have some sort of "natual resistance" (mechanically "spell resistance" in-game). Therefore all the mumbo-jumbo (some of which is false) you described above would be irrelevant to life on Nirn... but applies only to Earth-based universes.

1. Fire: Oxygen is limited to the area... Having more targets burn out all at the same time would put the fire out not make it stronger. Case in Point: How US military dealt with Iraq buring of oil fields: Blew them up with a bigger explosion.

Furthermore in a AoE context and ESO: There is 2 damage componets of fire. 1. The "explosion" of the fire effect. 2. The "catching of fire and DoT" effect. Although the nature of 2 can be debated in this game and "how many targets"... the force of 1 is limited based upon initial force. Having more players would absorb more of this explosion. Mage's aren't nuclear weapons btw.


2. Frag: Use Boston Bomber as real life comparison. Not everyone died who got hit. Targets direct line of site took most of the damage. Ones further way only had more "minor" damage. Making a ESO's AoE do equal damage in an area would not make sense.


3. High Explosives: Your understanding of "reflection" is false. Carbon-based life forms do not reflect significant anything of force. Their density is too low and most force passes into/through the target. However if solid and dense objects were involved, in a small space like inside a keep, a HE having a AoE target limit of 6 would not make sense. However how many and how much targets depends on the initial force applied... it isn't unlimited. Does a AR-15's .450 round "bounce back" after hitting someone? No.


4. Electricity: There are only so many Electron Volts of power applied in the attack. You basically admitted in your own post that this effect would dispurse due to resistance of multiple targets. Therefore an "unlimited AoE cap" makes no sense.


5. Blunt Force: Again... you answered your own statement. Warrior's cannot hit unlimited targets. Only hits as many targets as the forced used to engage it. Unlimited AoE makes no sense.


6. Ice: This is the only one that could makes sense as you mentioned... however once again is subject to how "cold" a system is. If there is only "a little ice" then it wouldn't hit every target the same. As mentioned at the start a mage's attack, although visually stimulating, may not be as powerful as it appears. This one is indeed harder to determine in a fantasy setting.


The AoE caps are needed in a game that does not have collision detection. If players were forced to stay away from each other then the game becomes realistic in terms of AoE. However... because few game developer's wish to tackle this effect the AoE caps remain.


Need I say that ZeniMax agrees with me... thus the patch in PTS? Alas... /iwin

/nerdwar

RaZaddha

No

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

@RaZaddha‌


"NERD WAR MODE ACTIVATE"

Having a big long post may make you look smart: Nonetheless you fail to consider how much energy was put into the system in the first place. Mage's do not summon ultra cold ice or ultra hot fire when the magicka cost being used for an attack is as small as it is in game. Warrior's stamina cost is too small to me epic overpowered.

Granted... trying to "measure" the physical nature of magic of a video game most certain to qualify as a "Nerd War". Nonetheless:


AoE's attacks players have access to generally do not use much magicka. Therefore... although visually impressive, their attacks would do far less damage then higher cost attacks used by video game bosses. Also in "fantasy" games: It appears that lifeforms have some sort of "natual resistance" (mechanically "spell resistance" in-game). Therefore all the mumbo-jumbo (some of which is false) you described above would be irrelevant to life on Nirn... but applies only to Earth-based universes.

1. Fire: Oxygen is limited to the area... Having more targets burn out all at the same time would put the fire out not make it stronger. Case in Point: How US military dealt with Iraq buring of oil fields: Blew them up with a bigger explosion.

Furthermore in a AoE context and ESO: There is 2 damage componets of fire. 1. The "explosion" of the fire effect. 2. The "catching of fire and DoT" effect. Although the nature of 2 can be debated in this game and "how many targets"... the force of 1 is limited based upon initial force. Having more players would absorb more of this explosion. Mage's aren't nuclear weapons btw.


2. Frag: Use Boston Bomber as real life comparison. Not everyone died who got hit. Targets direct line of site took most of the damage. Ones further way only had more "minor" damage. Making a ESO's AoE do equal damage in an area would not make sense.


3. High Explosives: Your understanding of "reflection" is false. Carbon-based life forms do not reflect significant anything of force. Their density is too low and most force passes into/through the target. However if solid and dense objects were involved, in a small space like inside a keep, a HE having a AoE target limit of 6 would not make sense. However how many and how much targets depends on the initial force applied... it isn't unlimited. Does a AR-15's .450 round "bounce back" after hitting someone? No.


4. Electricity: There are only so many Electron Volts of power applied in the attack. You basically admitted in your own post that this effect would dispurse due to resistance of multiple targets. Therefore an "unlimited AoE cap" makes no sense.


5. Blunt Force: Again... you answered your own statement. Warrior's cannot hit unlimited targets. Only hits as many targets as the forced used to engage it. Unlimited AoE makes no sense.


6. Ice: This is the only one that could makes sense as you mentioned... however once again is subject to how "cold" a system is. If there is only "a little ice" then it wouldn't hit every target the same. As mentioned at the start a mage's attack, although visually stimulating, may not be as powerful as it appears. This one is indeed harder to determine in a fantasy setting.


The AoE caps are needed in a game that does not have collision detection. If players were forced to stay away from each other then the game becomes realistic in terms of AoE. However... because few game developer's wish to tackle this effect the AoE caps remain.


Need I say that ZeniMax agrees with me... thus the patch in PTS? Alas... /iwin

/nerdwar

"Having a big long post may make you look smart: Nonetheless you fail to consider how much energy was put into the system in the first place. Mage's do not summon ultra cold ice or ultra hot fire when the magicka cost being used for an attack is as small as it is in game. Warrior's stamina cost is too small to me epic overpowered."
A lot of energy needs to be applied to the system so I can kill you with lightining/fire/ice, otherwise I might as well throw fire matches at you and hope you die of first degree burns.

"AoE's attacks players have access to generally do not use much magicka. Therefore... although visually impressive, their attacks would do far less damage then higher cost attacks used by video game bosses. Also in "fantasy" games: It appears that lifeforms have some sort of "natual resistance" (mechanically "spell resistance" in-game)."
You are trying too hard to apply logic to a fantasy game. It's like trying to apply mathematical logic to music, you just... Don't do it, you just enjoy the music and say that his style was/wasn't what you like.

"Granted... trying to "measure" the physical nature of magic of a video game most certain to qualify as a "Nerd War""
"Therefore all the mumbo-jumbo (some of which is false) you described above would be irrelevant to life on Nirn... but applies only to Earth-based universes."

YOU *** BRAIN, THIS IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING ALL THIS TIME, TRYING TO APPLY REAL-LIFE PHYSICS TO A GAME MAKES NO *** SENSE. YOU ARE SAYING AOE CAP IS REALISTIC AND THEN YOU SAY THAT REAL-LIFE PHYSICS DON'T APPLY TO NIRN, YOUR ARGUMENT GOES BOTH WAYS, IF I CAN SPEW FIRE AND ICE OUT OF MY *** I CAN BURN MORE THAN 6 *** PEOPLE WITH A *** FIREBALL.

"1. Fire: Oxygen is limited to the area... Having more targets burn out all at the same time would put the fire out not make it stronger. Case in Point: How US military dealt with Iraq buring of oil fields: Blew them up with a bigger explosion."

"Oil well fires are more difficult to extinguish than regular fires due to the enormous fuel supply for the fire. In fighting a fire at a wellhead, typically high explosives, such as dynamite, are used to create a shockwave that pushes the burning fuel and local atmospheric oxygen away from the well. (This is a similar principle to blowing out a candle.) The flame is removed and the fuel can continue to spill out without catching on fire."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well_fire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire

My point still stands, to extinguish a fire you have to:
1 - Remove it's fuel, which means, take the piece of burning wood away from the wood pile and wait for the wood to be consumed.
2 - Remove the oxygen, nearly impossible to do unless you are on a closed room, but you can try it yourself, light a candle and cover it with a glass cup, the fire will consume all oxygen and fade away.
3 - Remove the heat, water does this, you throw water on a fire the wood cools a little and the wet wood can't get hot enough to ignite until all water evaporates, the water steam also helps in removing the oxygen from the area.

Why don't you try and put bunch of coal on fire and try to put if out by standing on it?

"Furthermore in a AoE context and ESO: (ramblings of a mad man)"

"2. Frag: Use Boston Bomber as real life comparison. Not everyone died who got hit. Targets direct line of site took most of the damage. Ones further way only had more "minor" damage. Making a ESO's AoE do equal damage in an area would not make sense."

I didn't say that, I said that if you can physically look at the grenade and you are in the close enough to it you will get hit the projectiles. Everyone around the bomb got hit by it, not just a few number, some people got lucky and didn't get hit by projectiles because they all go to randomly into every direction.

"3. High Explosives: Your understanding of "reflection" is false. Carbon-based life forms do not reflect significant anything of force. Their density is too low and most force passes into/through the target. However if solid and dense objects were involved, in a small space like inside a keep, a HE having a AoE target limit of 6 would not make sense. However how many and how much targets depends on the initial force applied... it isn't unlimited. Does a AR-15's .450 round "bounce back" after hitting someone? No."

You don't have a single clue of mechanics, ever heard of "action and reaction"? If I hit a wall with a hammer the wall will absorb most of the impact, but it will also try to "push" the hammer back, thats why when you hit something sometimes you can feel the hammer "pushing back". Shock wave is a force, it doesn't matter if its a body made of carbon, play-dough or titanium, it will absorb some of it and will try to "reflect" some of the force.
RIPPLES IN WATER MAN, LOOK AT DEM RIPPLES IN WATER.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaction_(physics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_wave

"4. Electricity: There are only so many Electron Volts of power applied in the attack. You basically admitted in your own post that this effect would dispurse due to resistance of multiple targets. Therefore an "unlimited AoE cap" makes no sense."

It will disperse due to proximity, the first person will receive the full shock, but due to the resistance there will be some loss of energy that will be converted to heat, then the second target will receive less electricity.
Why don't you try and go outside with a friend and climb an electrical post, then you grab the wire and your friend grab your hand and you measure how much electricity ran through each of you? Precticion: The difference won't be no where near as high as you are imagining.

"5. Blunt Force: Again... you answered your own statement. Warrior's cannot hit unlimited targets. Only hits as many targets as the forced used to engage it. Unlimited AoE makes no sense."

Why don't you and a few of your friends make a conga line, then I will hit you with a sledgehammer on your face and you can measure how much strain each of your friends head suffered? Maybe if I throw 20 magical arrows at you and your friends we will finally understand why I can only hit 6 and the rest all pass through them as if they were phantoms.

"6. Ice: This is the only one that could makes sense as you mentioned... however once again is subject to how "cold" a system is. If there is only "a little ice" then it wouldn't hit every target the same. As mentioned at the start a mage's attack, although visually stimulating, may not be as powerful as it appears. This one is indeed harder to determine in a fantasy setting."

Why don't we test it? I will pour liquid nitrogen on you until you die of hypothermia, then we can measure how cold something must be so that it actually hurts and kills people. Prediction: REALLY REALLY *** COLD.

You sir got an F on first grade physics, your teacher is disappointed in you.

"The AoE caps are needed in a game that does not have collision detection. If players were forced to stay away from each other then the game becomes realistic in terms of AoE. However... because few game developer's wish to tackle this effect the AoE caps remain."

No it's not, DAoC has no collision and no AoE cap and it's the best RvR ever, GW2 has AoE cap and no collision and it's the worst RvR ever, you can't deny it, look at the internet, GW2 RvR sucks because of zerg balls, and why does zerg balls happen? Oh yeah, IT'S BECAUSE THERES *** AOE CAPS IN PLACE.

Need I say that ZeniMax agrees with me... thus the patch in PTS? Alas... /iwin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M




ZOS said nothing about AoE caps, they never said it was due to realism, you are just spewing random nonsense, can you please link where ZOS said AoE caps was implemented because of realism?
Oh wait, you can't, ZOS never said anything about it, YOU ARE A LIAR!

Digerati

No

RaZaddha wins the nerd war for proper use of a willy wonka meme.

TheGrandAlliance

Yes

"RaZaddha wrote: »

said nothing about AoE caps, they never said it was due to realism, you are just spewing random nonsense, can you please link where ZOS said AoE caps was implemented because of realism?
Oh wait, you can't, ZOS never said anything about it, YOU ARE A LIAR!

/iwin not because ZeniMax has an official position on the "realism" issue but rather they feel that AoE are needed for "balanced gameplay" or whatever. Doesn't matter if this thread has 37K+ views and 87% of voters against... the end result is the same. For different reasons (although I agree with the balancing issue no doubt) we/ZeniMax agree on the outcome.


Because mine/their resulting conclusion is to have AoE caps in place...


Once again...


/Iwin
/youlose

TheGrandAlliance

Yes

Digerati wrote: »

RaZaddha wins the nerd war for proper use of a willy wonka meme.

OOOr because you voted No thats why he "won by default".



To answer your claim directly @Digerati‌ What did I win?

FREEDOM: Brought to you by the Future of Awesome!

Digerati

No

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

Digerati wrote: »

RaZaddha wins the nerd war for proper use of a willy wonka meme.

OOOr because you voted No thats why he "won by default".



To answer your claim directly @Digerati‌ What did I win?

FREEDOM: Brought to you by the Future of Awesome!

You'd like to represent yourself as an fun and intelligent person but I can assure you that that is not the case.

The fact is is that there is no sound logical reason for AoE caps. They are not found in any physics model and they do NOT provide ANY balance. They serve, only, as a lazy method for the ESO developers to mitigate the grief that a small group of people can cause a zerg.

It's like ESO violating their own vision by adding a cooldown to the game to "balance" bash. It's like how they "fixed" the various dupe bugs, by not fixing the underlying systemic issue, rather adding an overlaying system to serve as arbitrary prevention of the duping... It's like how they have fake FPS mechanics disguising a tab-target combat system. They're taking the absolute laziest routes to achieve things that resemble what they want to do except in this instance, they fall completely flat with this impotent and lazy design direction.

RaZaddha

No

TheGrandAlliance wrote: »

"RaZaddha wrote: »

said nothing about AoE caps, they never said it was due to realism, you are just spewing random nonsense, can you please link where ZOS said AoE caps was implemented because of realism?
Oh wait, you can't, ZOS never said anything about it, YOU ARE A LIAR!

/iwin not because ZeniMax has an official position on the "realism" issue but rather they feel that AoE are needed for "balanced gameplay" or whatever. Doesn't matter if this thread has 35K+ views... the end result is the same. For different reasons (although I agree with the balancing issue no doubt) we/ZeniMax agree on the outcome.


Because mine/their resulting conclusion is to have AoE caps in place...


Once again...


/Iwin
/youlose

Oh? So finally you are dropping the argument that AoE cap is there for "realism"? Yet you still forgot I already said AoE caps are there for gameplay reasons and not for realism, go read my previous posts.

You both agree on the outcome, but the reasoning that led you both there is nowhere near similar. Zenimax has no official position about why theres an AoE cap in place, you and ZOS both agree that it's needed, but on the why you can't affirm anything, anything you say why ZOS put AoE caps is nothing but assumptions and therefore is not a fact, so again, you win nothing until ZOS states their reasoning for AoE caps.

This thread may aswell be one of the biggest and most viewed threads on this forum, at this point it's obvious they will never remove it, but completely ignoring such a thing is disrespectful for the community, they could have at least told us why.

I'm just waiting for when the Turtle Wars 3 starts, it's such a pity that a game hyped to be the spiritual successor of DAoC will end up being such a failure and you are one of the people defending the failure.

RivenEsq

No

Idiots. Idiots everywhere.

judas

I think ZOS is justified in their decision. I see it as an Area of Effectiveness based on the mana spent by a single individual.
I should not be able to hypothetically do 130pts of damage to 100 individuals in an AOE attack. There needs to be limits or everyone will in turn complain that AoE is OP.

The truth is people will find a way to justify crying about some game mechanic they don't like. We all have different ideas and one solution cannot fit everyone.

correob16_ESO

No

I don't want a PVP like GW2 game. If I want to play with a bad PVP system i'll play with GW2.

chrisub17_ESO104

99.9% of the people complaining about aoe caps simply don't have a clue.

- All of these people never realized they were already playing with caps in place. Never tested anything themselves, just joined the bandwagon because it sounded good.

- Very few of them have a clue about how the mechanics of aoe in this game differ from games such as GW2, and why comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Most of you are just making fools of yourselves, and you don't even realize it.

frwinters_ESO

Yes

Why is this thread still open? Do none of you realize that if they never even mentioned a cap none of you would have ever have noticed your AoE only affected six people in the first place? No one noticed it or mentioned in Alpha testing, or Beta testing or no where. You all would still be in Cyrodil, popping your AoE's killing players, having a merry time. But ONCE you find out about a mechanic that you have been playing since DAY 1 its a problem? Now people complain the company should tell us everything about there game? Why do we think we are entitled to such? Just because you pay a monthly subscription doesn't give you such an entitlement. Your subscription allows you ACCESS to this product. You do not own the product. The owner can do what ever they want to there product and you as the consumer can decide to continue to support the product or not. This AoE cap discussion has been the most ridiculous discussion on the whole forum. It has been blown way out of proportion and just needs to stop. Its not going to change no matter how enraged you are. If you don't like it stop playing. If you stop playing your dumb because you have been playing the game and having fun with a 6 person cap since day one.

ChairGraveyard

No

AoE caps enable cheating via stacking. Nuff said.

RazzPitazz

Most of the caps have been in place somce launch, they jusy failed to make tooltips for it. The cap is only affecting a handful of AoE abilities and most of tjose caps are ONLY FOR PVE. The very few caps affecting PVP are being tweaked by +-2. If you have not noticed anything to complain about BEFORE the cap anoucement, which obviously no ome else read, then dont start now. You are just crying because someone pointed out your wounds.

Digerati

No

No one noticed AoE caps before because all of the most effective AoE abilities, in fact, had no AoE cap. There's a lore book written about how a handful of people defended a keep against a zerg. That was only possible WITHOUT AoE caps.

The idea that AoE caps were in place all along is deluded. They were NOT and it's pretty insulting that they are taking that route.. It's an obvious lie. abilities with AoE caps were the exception, not the rule, and they keep ninja-patching in AoE caps to have the claim that this lazy and impotent design was always intended.

Aeradon

No

Not sure about what it'll do to PVP, as it is now the Dominion zergs are unstoppable in NA Auriel's Bow.

I feel that this is a punishment for PVE, public/group dungeons have mobs of 5-6 clustered together, and the space might be confined or lack distance between mobs. So if we're surrounded by 12 mobs our skills would only hit half of them? Doesn't make sense to me.

Solo content would be tougher especially. When I solo, I kite to save levelling time, on paper it looks perfect, 3 skills, fully utilising Stamina and Magicka would bring them all down. It's frustrating however, that in practice almost all the time there will be 1-2 mobs COMPLETELY UNHARMED. Maybe out of 5 times, they'll have 1 mob with 80% health, that's it.

The planning was fine, kept thinking it was distance until I found this. If I'm gonna drop a skill, I wanna know it hits. What's the point of having the extra range from steel tornado morph if I know that radius didn't matter at all?

If it's really not gonna hit, mark it in the tooltip.

*edit*
And I don't wanna see my dungeon/alliance mate fail dodge but they're still alive. If balancing is a problem, and you're looking for ways to punish "erroneously unlimited damage", I don't mind having a friendly fire AOE. Makes people spread out more and more aware of the situation.

Elidas

No

Nop, because it helps the creation of massive zergs as the only win option

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

No

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

99.9% of the people complaining about aoe caps simply don't have a clue.

- All of these people never realized they were already playing with caps in place. Never tested anything themselves, just joined the bandwagon because it sounded good.

- Very few of them have a clue about how the mechanics of aoe in this game differ from games such as GW2, and why comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Most of you are just making fools of yourselves, and you don't even realize it.

Actualy alot of skills didnt have a cap in the beta and for a good while and if you bother to read the dev clarification post then you will see a list of skills that did not have a cap and are getting "fixed", a list thats far from complete btw :P ...now id probably respond with the same "noob withouth a clue" argument but that would only feed the trolls, please get your facts straight before you start calling people clueless.

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

No

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Why is this thread still open? Do none of you realize that if they never even mentioned a cap none of you would have ever have noticed your AoE only affected six people in the first place? No one noticed it or mentioned in Alpha testing, or Beta testing or no where. You all would still be in Cyrodil, popping your AoE's killing players, having a merry time. But ONCE you find out about a mechanic that you have been playing since DAY 1 its a problem? Now people complain the company should tell us everything about there game? Why do we think we are entitled to such? Just because you pay a monthly subscription doesn't give you such an entitlement. Your subscription allows you ACCESS to this product. You do not own the product. The owner can do what ever they want to there product and you as the consumer can decide to continue to support the product or not. This AoE cap discussion has been the most ridiculous discussion on the whole forum. It has been blown way out of proportion and just needs to stop. Its not going to change no matter how enraged you are. If you don't like it stop playing. If you stop playing your dumb because you have been playing the game and having fun with a 6 person cap since day one.

Read the dev post on the issue, they admit it themselves there were certain skills that did not have a cap and the list is far from complete. How would one take you seriously if you didnt even bother to read the ZOS official statement on the issue?

popatiberiuoneb18_ESO

No

rajaniemiorama_ESO wrote: »

Most of the caps have been in place somce launch, they jusy failed to make tooltips for it. The cap is only affecting a handful of AoE abilities and most of tjose caps are ONLY FOR PVE. The very few caps affecting PVP are being tweaked by +-2. If you have not noticed anything to complain about BEFORE the cap anoucement, which obviously no ome else read, then dont start now. You are just crying because someone pointed out your wounds.

Some skills had cap in launch, true, but most didnt. Its becouse people noticed and started to complain about it via various methods like /bug ingame, support tickets, etc. and this is why they felt the need to post the clarification anouncement on the dev forums. People are complaining becouse this is already ruining the PvP, there are plenty of youtube movies in this thread and if not enough plenty more on youtube if you cared to search, showing how this affects Cyrodiil.

Aphilas

No

Considering Zenimax moments of "truth" about "forgetting" caps on some skills - it's pure damage control and lies. Why on earth some of the skills actually do specifically mention that they effect 4-6 targets to begin with, if it is over half of the skills that "were intended" to have such caps?

Simply put, they messed up big time with cost reduction stacking and several other problems which allow almost non stop spam of AoE.
Then people whine.
Then Zenimax messes up even more and goes with AoE cap topic, covering their mess up with "it was intended to begin with".

End result? Still same messed up game with magica abilities spam, soon to become into "who has more numbers clumped up together spamming AoE instawin".

I can't understand how Zenimax can not comprehend the severity of situation and where the actual problems are. All it takes is to take info from DB of top Cyrodiil players and check what they are wearing. Or to actually spend an hour or two playing the game to understand that light armour passives + jewellery stacking + costs of majority of magic skills = spam of abilities that leads to serious disbalance as well as to mindless gameplay.

dsalter

No

the only skills this should be applied to is anything that heals yourself per target hit and only the heal part. otherwise you end up with a new batswarm exploit. otherwise say no to AoE caps, weaken AoE alittle, but dont cap it (infact AoE needs a lower damage anyways, since it out waighs afew skills 1v1)

SloDeth

No

Unfortunately had to follow my guildmates and cancel my subscription. You just can't have a good pvp game while making bad design decisions like a hard AoE cap. I like the game but too many bad decisions have been made to warrant paying the sub.

Sociabear

No

An AoE cap..that should never go live. If this company caters to the whiny brats of today that cry when they die instantly I give up on mmos.

Adapt to the playstyle..don't want to get bombed..don't clump up damnit.

Kililin

No

In Short:

AoE Caps is a mechanic from noobs for noobs.

fauqur

No

If I take a can of gas and throw it on the ground it may not spread very far, but when lit it burns everything it touched.

You want realism correct?
Then don't limit targets, limit size and duration. That is realistic, but throwing a grenade and having it only hit 6 of 20 people standing on top of it is not.

As it is the AD Zerging has already made pvp tedious. Without a large enough group of skilled fighters pvp is basically; dying over and over to large groups of unskilled hacks.

I haven't played in over 20 levels, because it seems like only veterans can stand up to low level zerg groups.

Please give those of us using tactics and strategy the upper-hand instead of handicaps. If you really want to improve PvP. Make Zerging in balls a RISK by giving us more AoE attack options.

Please make this game more realistic as you promised. This just encourages talentless Zerg groups.