Won't go f2p will it?

seaef

I hope not. The free games are too expensive.

dagnome

tallenn wrote: »

Here is the fact: If the game can't sustain a fairly large subscriber base (and I'm not making any predictions, one way or the other), then yes, it will most definitely go free to play. The only alternative is to close up shop.

A quick review of history and statistics leans heavily in favor of free to play at some point, and in fact, sooner, rather than later. Don't blame me, blame the math. WoW and Eve (the only long term subscription only games I can think of) are the exceptions in this genre.

Only including two games and generalizing about 15 years of gaming history in 4 sentence certainly is a quick review.

Shimond

dagnome wrote: »

Only including two games and generalizing about 15 years of gaming history in 4 sentence certainly is a quick review.

It's funny how many games people ignore, isn't it.

The other fallacy is assuming that they are going F2P is all that is saving it from being shut down. Oh sure that's what a lot will imply, but the truth is they know they can squeeze far more money out of moronic players than via subscription models.

dagnome

Shimond wrote: »

dagnome wrote: »

Only including two games and generalizing about 15 years of gaming history in 4 sentence certainly is a quick review.

It's funny how many games people ignore, isn't it.

The other fallacy is assuming that they are going F2P is all that is saving it from being shut down. Oh sure that's what a lot will imply, but the truth is they know they can squeeze far more money out of moronic players than via subscription models.

That's why the F2P model is so successful, "People will always pay to win or pay for levels/gear". I am in that crowd for some games.
Warframe: I have invested maybe $2000+ into it.
MechWarrior Online: Approx $1000.
Granted in these games you really cant 'Pay to win" despite what people say. So yes they could easily make millions if they switched their model but I have the feeling that Zenimax/Bethesda have a greater respect for their community than to ruin the Elder Scrolls Experience by implementing a rubbish (Yes very successful) business model.

Shimond

dagnome wrote: »

That's why the F2P model is so successful, "People will always pay to win or pay for levels/gear". I am in that crowd for some games.
Warframe: I have invested maybe $2000+ into it.
MechWarrior Online: Approx $1000.
Granted in these games you really cant 'Pay to win" despite what people say. So yes they could easily make millions if they switched their model but I have the feeling that Zenimax/Bethesda have a greater respect for their community than to ruin the Elder Scrolls Experience by implementing a rubbish (Yes very successful) business model.

Yea I'm guilty of it too. I put way more into SWTOR and GW2 than I would have if they had stuck to standard sub models. That's the main reason I don't want this to go F2P. Not because of the riff-raff it lets in, but because of my bank account. Yes I consider myself one of the moronic players :P

Mansome

I hope it stays p2p for as long as possible. There are so few games that have done f2p right. If they cripple the game like the way they did SWTOR with all the penalties for being F2P then its just not worth it. City of Heroes did a good f2p model where they incentives plays to stay with a sub. Rift did the same thing. My only other concern with this model is the exponential increase of spammer accounts. True enough the add-ons help a ton for this but it does not help those who don't know about it.

Mansome

loops73 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

That phrase is the new "there are no women on the internet", isn't it?

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

Obvious troll is obvious. Name a game aside from Aion that even comes close to these graphics on max settings for an MMO?

zaria

OT:OT I notice that most haters are players with userid larger than 4.500.000 makes me ask, did you play the beta?

They ragequit about stuff who would be obvious in beta or simply game sux, not skyrim / wow.
Yes others are pissed because of game stopping bugs but overal enjoy it

Gohlar

It's an mmo that screwed up group pve.

It'll go buy to play like GW2. It's coming out on console, it won't go totally F2P. That in game store will be seeing plenty of additions though.

Greyhaven

What I have noticed is an uptick of CoD bro gamers bashing the game on YouTube and Astroturfing Archage, I don't think that will translate into F2P because these same idiots were saying basically the same thing about Skyrim and didn't shut up until the initial sales figures and post launch awards started coming in. Despite all the BS the sky isn’t falling there isn’t a mass exodus, the game has bugs and communication between Devs and players needs to improve…pretty much like every other MMO.
ESO isn’t going anywhere if it goes F2P (which I doubt we will more than likely see a B2P model) so be it, if it hasn’t killed a train wreck like TOR it won’t kill this game

Shimond

Greyhaven wrote: »

ESO isn’t going anywhere if it goes F2P (which I doubt we will more than likely see a B2P model) so be it, if it hasn’t killed a train wreck like TOR it won’t kill this game

This is very true. In a world where TOR still exists (and by recent reports, actually thrives in comparison to shortly after its launch), this game is in no danger whatsoever.

KanedaSyndrome

I think F2P is written on the wall tbh.

stylernaku

I will continue to pay and be happy doing so. it may go FTP sure, but you kids can keep wishing upon a star you get to come in free enventually, will take more than trolling and posting up yotube videos or random ranting from some geek personality or another.

If the long year plan does well that they have, and the continue the bug squashing in a timely manner, i think your ftp dreams will become less and less.

Let's be honest F2P will be great for your wallets, but it won't for the game. Deep down I think we all know this.

F2p will bring in more bots (as people will buy gold more, not less), and exploiters (who don't care about beign banned as their no financial loss) than you can possibly imagine.

Greydog

Shimond wrote: »

Greyhaven wrote: »

ESO isn’t going anywhere if it goes F2P (which I doubt we will more than likely see a B2P model) so be it, if it hasn’t killed a train wreck like TOR it won’t kill this game

This is very true. In a world where TOR still exists (and by recent reports, actually thrives in comparison to shortly after its launch), this game is in no danger whatsoever.

ToR thrives because it's f2p ...you sure you want to follow that example?

Mortelus

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

I think F2P is written on the wall tbh.

Why?

I don't think it is because consoles haven't had their launch yet, Zeni will definitely wait for that to happen before going F2P.

If this game has 1 million subs (over PC and consoles) that is plenty to keep the game ticking over each month and then some.

This game will go F2P when one of two things happen, Subs drop so low (doubtful) that they can no longer make a profit. Or Zeni get greedy and see nice shiny coins to be made from F2P model.

I

dpayne83_ESO

I love how people start these posts right after a launch. It's like people don't understand the amount of work that goes into an MMO through alpha, beta, and even launch. There are always issues at launch. If you expect a game to be perfect out the gate, you haven't played MMO's very long nor have any experience in developing one.

zaria

Mortelus wrote: »

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

I think F2P is written on the wall tbh.

Why?

I don't think it is because consoles haven't had their launch yet, Zeni will definitely wait for that to happen before going F2P.

If this game has 1 million subs (over PC and consoles) that is plenty to keep the game ticking over each month and then some.

This game will go F2P when one of two things happen, Subs drop so low (doubtful) that they can no longer make a profit. Or Zeni get greedy and see nice shiny coins to be made from F2P model.

More accurate, a MMO goes F2P if they believe going F2P will give more income.
Saw some link over at foundry, an F2P MMO makes 3-4 $/ month/ active player in average.

So you need 4-5 times more active players, question is where you get all this players. It might make sense for SWTOR to go F2P early as they have the billion Star wars fans to milk, most is not the sort of dedicated players who will buy an P2P MMO but can try out an free.

Situation is different for ESO, as it primarily target players who play elder scroll.
Another issue is that it don't need to fill up servers as most MMO has to.
My guess is that it has to fall down below 100k players before going F2P.

wrlifeboil

Greyhaven wrote: »

What I have noticed is an uptick of CoD bro gamers bashing the game on YouTube and Astroturfing Archage, I don't think that will translate into F2P because these same idiots were saying basically the same thing about Skyrim and didn't shut up until the initial sales figures and post launch awards started coming in. Despite all the BS the sky isn’t falling there isn’t a mass exodus, the game has bugs and communication between Devs and players needs to improve…pretty much like every other MMO.
ESO isn’t going anywhere if it goes F2P (which I doubt we will more than likely see a B2P model) so be it, if it hasn’t killed a train wreck like TOR it won’t kill this game

Almost sounds like a reasonable explanation but, as usual, inconvenient facts get in the way.

We knew what Skyrim sales were. More than 3 million copies were sold within two days after launch. ZOS hasn't released any sales figures for ESO yet. Early access players have been playing this game for three weeks already, launch day players nearly three weeks. If they are still playing the expectations game, its nearing the end.

So using Skyrim as an example might not be valid. But we should know soon. I can't imagine ZOS not releasing sales figures after the first week of May when the early access and launch day players have to decide whether to let their debit/credit cards be charged or not for the first monthly subscription.

zaria

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Greyhaven wrote: »

What I have noticed is an uptick of CoD bro gamers bashing the game on YouTube and Astroturfing Archage, I don't think that will translate into F2P because these same idiots were saying basically the same thing about Skyrim and didn't shut up until the initial sales figures and post launch awards started coming in. Despite all the BS the sky isn’t falling there isn’t a mass exodus, the game has bugs and communication between Devs and players needs to improve…pretty much like every other MMO.
ESO isn’t going anywhere if it goes F2P (which I doubt we will more than likely see a B2P model) so be it, if it hasn’t killed a train wreck like TOR it won’t kill this game

Almost sounds like a reasonable explanation but, as usual, inconvenient facts get in the way.

We knew what Skyrim sales were. More than 3 million copies were sold within two days after launch. ZOS hasn't released any sales figures for ESO yet. Early access players have been playing this game for three weeks already, launch day players nearly three weeks. If they are still playing the expectations game, its nearing the end.

So using Skyrim as an example might not be valid. But we should know soon. I can't imagine ZOS not releasing sales figures after the first week of May when the early access and launch day players have to decide whether to let their debit/credit cards be charged or not for the first monthly subscription.

I think Bethesda said Skyrim sold 20 million a year or something after launch.
Else they tend to not publish sales figures so we has to use 3rd part services like VGcarts who don't count all digital sales as steam or the elderscrollsonline store.

Bethesda don't have to report sales figures as its an private company.

Delte

annarr1117nub18_ESO wrote: »

b2p route my be a great direction to go for ZOS' TESO folks.

Yeah how would you like to pay to enter each and every dungeon and to buy skyshards each time you want a skill point.

The crafting resources for armour and weapons for the racial types some of those will be free but what about the veteran levels ? 5 daedric hearts for $5 ? Oh you won't ever get the 11 or so you need for a full set of equipment so then it would become $15 dollars just to make new weapons and armour for one character.

To enter Cyrodiil yep that will be another $5 a month or with each new campaign when they restart.

So now instead of just spending the £8.99 each month you are now spending double that just to enjoy the game.

Think before you post such comments to how someone will make money from a f2p mmo.

mutharex

Why aren't the mods closing these threads and banning a few trolls? Cmon.. it's not that hard

AlexanderTheGreat

If it goes F2P, I'll cross this game off as another failed MMO and move on with my life.

Shimond

Greydog wrote: »

ToR thrives because it's f2p ...you sure you want to follow that example?

It's not because it's free to play (in the literal sense) so much as because they have subscriptions (and playing that game without a sub is torture) and a store that sells stuff that should be in the game by default (the cosmetic options in that game are terrible, as is the general art style). I don't really see this game having those kinds of issue, but time will tell. The game client here isn't seriously flawed like it was over there, and the PvP here is much better designed than Ilium ever could have been.

mutharex

TOR (F2P or not) has 500K subscribers, calling it a failure is a bit weird

PS TOR had:
- client issue
- terrible performance in PVP
- PVP highlight was Huttball (nuff said)
- the total disaster that was Ilium
- boring side quests
- 'quick' to level with little or nothing at 'endgame'

Sorry but if you think TOR and TESO are similar, you either haven't played one of them or you are just making up stuff

knaveofengland

well you can say if it does go ftp then people with wads of cash will benefit look at most other mmos. I pay on average 100 pounds a month to play games for me and my children so make no difference to me I still pay 1 way or other

Kyosji

I seriously doubt I will stick around if it goes F2P. Especially when that F2P game involves PvP. You are basically forced to throw wads of cash at your screen just so you can be on a level playing field as others in PvP, and that's stupid. PvE won't be so bad, unless they charge you for dungeons or something, but everything else, no.

neocomab16_ESO

mutharex wrote: »

TOR (F2P or not) has 500K subscribers, calling it a failure is a bit weird

PS TOR had:
- client issue
- terrible performance in PVP
- PVP highlight was Huttball (nuff said)
- the total disaster that was Ilium
- boring side quests
- 'quick' to level with little or nothing at 'endgame'

Sorry but if you think TOR and TESO are similar, you either haven't played one of them or you are just making up stuff

Unless you pull some actual numbers I dont believe that TOR has 500k subs.

Second, both games are rather similar in terms of delivering a game experience that is worth paying for. There's a reason why TOR went F2P, because the game was not worth paying 15 bucks a month.

Right now, ESO isnt worth it either.

When I play an MMO I usually dont look for bugs. In those terms I am probably more of a casual, playing the game not going too hardcore. However, in ESO I had the following experienced:

* quest mobs not spawnin
* quests being bugged
* skyshards not having the beam thingy
* combat glitches where you simply stop doing anything
* loading screens of death
* compass freezing
* no reply function in the mail system
* attachments that are consumables being labeled as junk Oo
* clunky combat
* horse sprint delay, only working after second activation
* skill bugs
* passive bugs
* side quests giving little xp
* dungeon mobs giving almost no xp at all
* pvp not giving xp at all
* questing in groups and phasing ...

while the later points arent exactly bugs these are still gamebreakers for me because my patience is at some point worn out and that point is reached by now.

So yeah, the game is going f2p because right now there is nothing ESO stands out with compared to other mmos. Why would you pay 15 bucks a month for a mediocre experience when you are not a total hardcore ES fan? I dont see any and I guess lots of people think similar.

mutharex

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

TOR (F2P or not) has 500K subscribers, calling it a failure is a bit weird

PS TOR had:
- client issue
- terrible performance in PVP
- PVP highlight was Huttball (nuff said)
- the total disaster that was Ilium
- boring side quests
- 'quick' to level with little or nothing at 'endgame'

Sorry but if you think TOR and TESO are similar, you either haven't played one of them or you are just making up stuff

Unless you pull some actual numbers I dont believe that TOR has 500k subs.

Second, both games are rather similar in terms of delivering a game experience that is worth paying for. There's a reason why TOR went F2P, because the game was not worth paying 15 bucks a month.

Right now, ESO isnt worth it either.

When I play an MMO I usually dont look for bugs. In those terms I am probably more of a casual, playing the game not going too hardcore. However, in ESO I had the following experienced:

* quest mobs not spawnin
* quests being bugged
* skyshards not having the beam thingy
* combat glitches where you simply stop doing anything
* loading screens of death
* compass freezing
* no reply function in the mail system
* attachments that are consumables being labeled as junk Oo
* clunky combat
* horse sprint delay, only working after second activation
* skill bugs
* passive bugs
* side quests giving little xp
* dungeon mobs giving almost no xp at all
* pvp not giving xp at all
* questing in groups and phasing ...

while the later points arent exactly bugs these are still gamebreakers for me because my patience is at some point worn out and that point is reached by now.

So yeah, the game is going f2p because right now there is nothing ESO stands out with compared to other mmos. Why would you pay 15 bucks a month for a mediocre experience when you are not a total hardcore ES fan? I dont see any and I guess lots of people think similar.

Weirdly enough I am either not affected or give a rat's ass about those 'issues' you highlight (some are positives for me, like no xp in dungeons etc), but that doesn't surprise me. Hope you find a game that fits the bill

Ah TOR numbers:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/7/4309866/star-wars-the-old-republic-revenue-doubled-free-to-play
coz you know using a search engine it's hard

zaria

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

mutharex wrote: »

TOR (F2P or not) has 500K subscribers, calling it a failure is a bit weird

PS TOR had:
- client issue
- terrible performance in PVP
- PVP highlight was Huttball (nuff said)
- the total disaster that was Ilium
- boring side quests
- 'quick' to level with little or nothing at 'endgame'

Sorry but if you think TOR and TESO are similar, you either haven't played one of them or you are just making up stuff

Unless you pull some actual numbers I dont believe that TOR has 500k subs.

Second, both games are rather similar in terms of delivering a game experience that is worth paying for. There's a reason why TOR went F2P, because the game was not worth paying 15 bucks a month.

Right now, ESO isnt worth it either.

When I play an MMO I usually dont look for bugs. In those terms I am probably more of a casual, playing the game not going too hardcore. However, in ESO I had the following experienced:

* quest mobs not spawnin
* quests being bugged
* skyshards not having the beam thingy
* combat glitches where you simply stop doing anything
* loading screens of death
* compass freezing
* no reply function in the mail system
* attachments that are consumables being labeled as junk Oo
* clunky combat
* horse sprint delay, only working after second activation
* skill bugs
* passive bugs
* side quests giving little xp
* dungeon mobs giving almost no xp at all
* pvp not giving xp at all
* questing in groups and phasing ...

while the later points arent exactly bugs these are still gamebreakers for me because my patience is at some point worn out and that point is reached by now.

So yeah, the game is going f2p because right now there is nothing ESO stands out with compared to other mmos. Why would you pay 15 bucks a month for a mediocre experience when you are not a total hardcore ES fan? I dont see any and I guess lots of people think similar.

Here you mix together an bunch of thing, many who looks like performance issues, as in I got them on a laptop with integrated graphic. try lower your graphic settings.

Other known server problems with quests break down under pressure and grouping, this is the real problems. its also some bugs with abilities.

Other are design decisions xp gain is designed so you should level with the zones.
Yes leveling by PvP should be balanced better, main issue here is probably that as member of 25 man teams in huge battles its easy to getting credit for hundreds of kills.

Shimond

neocomab16_ESO wrote: »

while the later points arent exactly bugs these are still gamebreakers for me because my patience is at some point worn out and that point is reached by now.

So yeah, the game is going f2p because right now there is nothing ESO stands out with compared to other mmos. Why would you pay 15 bucks a month for a mediocre experience when you are not a total hardcore ES fan? I dont see any and I guess lots of people think similar.

If the vast majority of people feel the way you do, then I imagine it will go F2P if that's their only option of keeping the game alive (and we have absolutely no idea what their minimum sub level is to maintain the game - they've never said).

However, all you've done is point out why you won't be subscribing. I'm having none of the actual issues you're having, and none of the design decisions as they stand bother me.