Won't go f2p will it?

Shimond

Greydog wrote: »

How many of the people who paid for Skyrim are still playing. My guess would be less than 50%. If they were counting on subs from those players to keep development and support for "Sktrim" going they would be SOL. Once you've paid your 50 bucks for that sp game your monetary contribution is done. You can play to your hearts content and never need to worry about it.

TES games have sold a lot of boxes but still I'd wager that only a fraction of those sales culminate in actual "loyal" fans.

A fraction of 20 million is more than enough to keep this game going, IMO.

Gohlar

Greydog wrote: »

Shimond wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

Box sales and subs are two different animals. Box sales fill the initial coffers ..the amount of subs coming in dictate how full the coffers stay.

Skyrim didn't need subs as it's not an MMO.

Of course. Your initial comment was on the fanbase present (compared to the MMO fanbase in general), which I believe you are grossly underestimating. Time will tell.

How many of the people who paid for Skyrim are still playing. My guess would be less than 50%. If they were counting on subs from those players to keep development and support for "Sktrim" going they would be SOL. Once you've paid your 50 bucks for that sp game your monetary contribution is done. You can play to your hearts content and never need to worry about it.

TES games have sold a lot of boxes but still I'd wager that only a fraction of those sales culminate in actual "loyal" fans.

Also, I've played every TES game and I won't be maintaining a sub here.

This game is not up to par imo. It's a step backwards as a single player game and a very large disappointment as a multiplayer one.

Objectively, this game really doesn't have a chance with the sub model. Not many are going to sub for casual questing. These types of games are best played on and off, I wouldn't be surprised if they are already developing their F2P mechanics behind the scenes.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

LIQUID741 wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Lets get one thing straight, it is not us Millennials who are the ME generation (20s-early 30s), it's you GenXers(mid 30s-early 50s). Do you listen to yourselves?

The people who are "leaving" (I haven't noticed any of this btw) are the powergamers/powerlevelers who have no real life outside of gaming and just played for days on end to level and didn't take a look at the content at all.

When the gaming industry picks up on this they'll understand what's going on. Also, keep in mind folks buy a game and may not like it.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/03/the-daily-grind-are-mmo-gamers-aging-out-of-the-genre/

You really should be blaming GenXers more as the "Me" folks when my generation only makes up 25% on average as the MMO group base.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130552/unmasking_the_avatar_the_.php?print=1

Let me get this correct..you are telling me that the GenXers are the powergamers..have no life outstide of gaming? Because...I would counter that we are the ones with families, paying the bills, taking kids to practices, and dealing basically with the senseless worries of the world. Not saying that some of us are not pounding the keyboard in a ridiculous style..but I can't buy the point that we are the F2P peeps that you speak of.

But then again...I could be wrong, just ask my wife...

If you read the articles, most gamers are Married. Do I really need to bring in the parents who neglect their children over gaming? (Not saying you do this) I'm not sitting to see "who all is leaving" just pointing out the majority of the MMO base are older gamers.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Shimond wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/03/the-daily-grind-are-mmo-gamers-aging-out-of-the-genre/

You really should be blaming GenXers more as the "Me" folks when my generation only makes up 25% on average as the MMO group base.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130552/unmasking_the_avatar_the_.php?print=1

You link one report from Capcom on their Resident Evil franchise with guesses that the MMO industry is exactly the same (I don't know about anyone else but I haven't played an RE game since the very first one).

Then the second one is taking snapshots of players from MMOs before WOW came along (article is from 9/1/04).

And you base your assumptions on those?

Sounds to me more like you've got an axe to grind and are using whatever you can get your hands on to support it.

I was trying to get a narrow tag on MMO gamers but if you really must know...

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2013.pdf

Gamers (That means EVERY game that exists)

32% 18 and under (Most of Gen X's kids, few of Boomers and Millennials)
32% 18-35 (Millennials and some of GenX)
36% 35+ (GenX and Boomers)

You find me an up-to-date chart of the MMO player base.

Greydog

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

32% 18 and under (Most of Gen X's kids, few of Boomers and Millennials)
32% 18-35 (Millennials and some of GenX)
36% 35+ (GenX and Boomers)

I'd say that looks like a pretty even mix. Kind of hard to generalize on any segment of it.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Melian wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Lets get one thing straight, it is not us Millennials who are the ME generation (20s-early 30s), it's you GenXers(mid 30s-early 50s). Do you listen to yourselves?

The people who are "leaving" (I haven't noticed any of this btw) are the powergamers/powerlevelers who have no real life outside of gaming and just played for days on end to level and didn't take a look at the content at all.

When the gaming industry picks up on this they'll understand what's going on. Also, keep in mind folks buy a game and may not like it.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/03/the-daily-grind-are-mmo-gamers-aging-out-of-the-genre/

You really should be blaming GenXers more as the "Me" folks when my generation only makes up 25% on average as the MMO group base.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130552/unmasking_the_avatar_the_.php?print=1

Actually the term "me generation" usually refers to Baby Boomers. As for the study you linked, it was done from 1999-2004, apparently, and it lists games like EQ and UO: games GenXers were playing (and paying to play) in our teens and twenties. We were the young people in that study, though its conclusions don't appear to support your argument anyway.
You might be a smaller percentage of gamers for now but you are the new gamers who don't remember how things used to be (I would say, "should be").

I know where and when the article came from and is the closes to the MMO pop you can get. Other than that you have the gamer pop and even though most show 60% to be 30-35 and under, they take into account that "Candy Crush" is a game. You are trying to attack "one" source like I'm writing a research paper. The truth is if you took any time, you'd find the MMO pop is aging like the first article I showed you. My point of the 2004 article (FYI I was an adult in 2004, not a Teen) was to show circumstances that are not too dissimilar and the population pool at the time, it wouldn't change so drastically in 10 years. EQ and UO were out when I was a Teen (Millennial) and most of GenX saw them come to pass as young adults. (1980s-2000 birth years = Millennials) Sounds like -you- are a millennial.

Shimond

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

I was trying to get a narrow tag on MMO gamers but if you really must know...

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2013.pdf

Gamers (That means EVERY game that exists)

32% 18 and under (Most of Gen X's kids, few of Boomers and Millennials)
32% 18-35 (Millennials and some of GenX)
36% 35+ (GenX and Boomers)

You find me an up-to-date chart of the MMO player base.

That's even more irrelevant data considering the existence of mobile and web based games in today's market. I'm not the one trying to prove some kind of age/MMO gamer relationship point here, you are.

Melian

loops73 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

lol so that's all you take from my statement?? not the fact that this game offers nothing new,has already had a game breaking bug(dupes) and really did not sell well on a global scale.

I have been playing the game for three months (on and off); I trust my own perceptions over your vague rant. "The world is lifeless" "pvp is a joke" - you call those "facts"? Is that what they're teaching kids in school these days? I'm sure that makes me a fangirl in your eyes. *shrug*

lol..stop and look at the world you are questing in,nothing moves,it looks like a fake movie set,the world does not feel alive and immersive.PVP is a joke,one big zerg fest with OP emperors that can wipe out 30 people by themselves..horrible...the kid thing made me laugh because I am probably old enough to be your dad and have been playing mmos since they came into existence.

If you're old enough to be my dad, I guess it must be dementia that's making you sound so immature.

One of the first things I sent positive /feedback in the game about was the fact that seagulls flew away when I approached; another was that people in a town I saved during a quest were rebuilding later. I don't know what it would take to make the world seem "alive" to you. Are you looking for Minecraft (great game, but it isn't the only one)? Maybe you'd prefer EQN, I hear it allows players to destroy structures and so on. That does sound fun, but I don't need it to enjoy a game.

Can't speak about PvP, as I haven't tried it since beta, but I hear mostly good things about it.

knightblaster

Gohlar wrote: »

, I wouldn't be surprised if they are already developing their F2P mechanics behind the scenes.

They would have to, I think. Any MMO released today has to at least have a viable Plan B if the Plan A of being a long-term subscription game doesn't pan out -- because it so rarely pans out successfully for a AAA game.

Gohlar

Rob, surely you realize how foolish it is to make sweeping generalizations about large groups of people...right? Not sure what your point is here, the data you provide is ambiguous and your conclusions are nonsensical.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Melian wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Lets get one thing straight, it is not us Millennials who are the ME generation (20s-early 30s), it's you GenXers(mid 30s-early 50s). Do you listen to yourselves?

The people who are "leaving" (I haven't noticed any of this btw) are the powergamers/powerlevelers who have no real life outside of gaming and just played for days on end to level and didn't take a look at the content at all.

When the gaming industry picks up on this they'll understand what's going on. Also, keep in mind folks buy a game and may not like it.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/03/the-daily-grind-are-mmo-gamers-aging-out-of-the-genre/

You really should be blaming GenXers more as the "Me" folks when my generation only makes up 25% on average as the MMO group base.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130552/unmasking_the_avatar_the_.php?print=1

Actually the term "me generation" usually refers to Baby Boomers. As for the study you linked, it was done from 1999-2004, apparently, and it lists games like EQ and UO: games GenXers were playing (and paying to play) in our teens and twenties. We were the young people in that study, though its conclusions don't appear to support your argument anyway.
You might be a smaller percentage of gamers for now but you are the new gamers who don't remember how things used to be (I would say, "should be").

My younger brother played UO, I played EQ a bit and he did later. Granted our parents paid our subs, we are Millennials though. Plese tell me what is this "don't remember"? I don't remember MUDs sure. I was an adult when WoW was released.

fredarbonab14_ESO

This thread = Drama Queen Central

robertbmilesb14_ESO

stylernaku wrote: »

1.Forever hard to impress.
2. More eager to find every exploit and flaw in your product possible than actually try to enjoy it.
3. Find more fun in generally [snip] with people and ruining their day instead of being sociable and embracing the slightest notion of manners or team play.
4. Pouring all of their personal angst, gender confusion, and lack of social interaction in the real world into angst filled forum posts and smack talk fueled PvP.

#1 Agreed, it's why you see MMOs trying to target my generation and find it a bit elusive while not fostering their bigger customer base, the GenXers. They want to tap our market who are mostly part-timers living at home with their parents, GREAT strategy, yah know?
#2 Couldn't say since I don't know code like that and most of my friends don't.
#3 I still see the older folks doing this more, but okay we'll use anecdotal evidence.
#4 You brought it up.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Greydog wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

32% 18 and under (Most of Gen X's kids, few of Boomers and Millennials)
32% 18-35 (Millennials and some of GenX)
36% 35+ (GenX and Boomers)

I'd say that looks like a pretty even mix. Kind of hard to generalize on any segment of it.

It is until you find what games are included in the study, MMOs is one subset of gaming.

People who play League of Legends, Diablo 3, StarCraft, Candy Crush, etc. Those are "gamers" in these studies.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Gohlar wrote: »

Rob, surely you realize how foolish it is to make sweeping generalizations about large groups of people...right? Not sure what your point is here, the data you provide is ambiguous and your conclusions are nonsensical.

You've kinda caught on to my point then.

Melian

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

I know where and when the article came from and is the closes to the MMO pop you can get. Other than that you have the gamer pop and even though most show 60% to be 30-35 and under, they take into account that "Candy Crush" is a game. You are trying to attack "one" source like I'm writing a research paper. The truth is if you took any time, you'd find the MMO pop is aging like the first article I showed you. My point of the 2004 article (FYI I was an adult in 2004, not a Teen) was to show circumstances that are not too dissimilar and the population pool at the time, it wouldn't change so drastically in 10 years. EQ and UO were out when I was a Teen (Millennial) and most of GenX saw them come to pass as young adults. (1980s-2000 birth years = Millennials) Sounds like -you- are a millennial.

I was born in 1979. That's usually counted as (the young end of) Generation X.

I never said people in their 30's and 40's weren't playing these games, so why would I need to address your "source" that claimed it? Why would we stop playing? Younger people are starting to play, and their preferences are shaping the direction the industry is taking. It makes a lot more sense than to claim that my generation's tastes somehow completely changed over the last 10 years.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Shimond wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

I was trying to get a narrow tag on MMO gamers but if you really must know...

http://www.theesa.com/facts/pdfs/esa_ef_2013.pdf

Gamers (That means EVERY game that exists)

32% 18 and under (Most of Gen X's kids, few of Boomers and Millennials)
32% 18-35 (Millennials and some of GenX)
36% 35+ (GenX and Boomers)

You find me an up-to-date chart of the MMO player base.

That's even more irrelevant data considering the existence of mobile and web based games in today's market. I'm not the one trying to prove some kind of age/MMO gamer relationship point here, you are.

There's a post on the forums and looking over it, it seems like there's a good portion of 30+ and some mid 20s from it.

If you find this off putting, maybe it'd be nice if others would stop being the old man blaming the next generation for their woes?

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Melian wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

I know where and when the article came from and is the closes to the MMO pop you can get. Other than that you have the gamer pop and even though most show 60% to be 30-35 and under, they take into account that "Candy Crush" is a game. You are trying to attack "one" source like I'm writing a research paper. The truth is if you took any time, you'd find the MMO pop is aging like the first article I showed you. My point of the 2004 article (FYI I was an adult in 2004, not a Teen) was to show circumstances that are not too dissimilar and the population pool at the time, it wouldn't change so drastically in 10 years. EQ and UO were out when I was a Teen (Millennial) and most of GenX saw them come to pass as young adults. (1980s-2000 birth years = Millennials) Sounds like -you- are a millennial.

I was born in 1979. That's usually counted as (the young end of) Generation X.

I never said people in their 30's and 40's weren't playing these games, so why would I need to address your "source" that claimed it? Why would we stop playing? Younger people are starting to play, and their preferences are shaping the direction the industry is taking. It makes a lot more sense than to claim that my generation's tastes somehow completely changed over the last 10 years.

I hit a nerve for some folks here, at least you made some progress with, "Why would we stop playing? Younger people are starting to play, and their preferences are shaping the direction the industry is taking. It makes a lot more sense than to claim that my generation's tastes somehow completely changed over the last 10 years." But provide nothing to tell me how my generation's preferences shape the changing industry (has it really changed? and how?) who have been gaming for 10 years as well.

Gohlar

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

(has it really changed? and how?)

I don't claim to know the exact reason why, but mmos have gotten much, much easier. To the point where they are making single player questing based mmos, like ESO.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame you. Nice job Rob.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

(has it really changed? and how?)

I don't claim to know the exact reason why, but mmos have gotten much, much easier. To the point where they are making single player questing based mmos, like ESO.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame you. Nice job Rob.

Easier? Or Less Time Consuming?

Shimond

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a post on the forums and looking over it, it seems like there's a good portion of 30+ and some mid 20s from it.

If you find this off putting, maybe it'd be nice if others would stop being the old man blaming the next generation for their woes?

You're the one that came in here with an axe to grind, taking some kind of personal offense to people complaining about the changes in the MMO landscape (specifically the F2P trend over P2P).

Gohlar

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

(has it really changed? and how?)

I don't claim to know the exact reason why, but mmos have gotten much, much easier. To the point where they are making single player questing based mmos, like ESO.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame you. Nice job Rob.

Easier? Or Less Time Consuming?

Easier. You shouldn't need to ask if you really played UO and EQ.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Shimond wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

There's a post on the forums and looking over it, it seems like there's a good portion of 30+ and some mid 20s from it.

If you find this off putting, maybe it'd be nice if others would stop being the old man blaming the next generation for their woes?

You're the one that came in here with an axe to grind, taking some kind of personal offense to people complaining about the changes in the MMO landscape (specifically the F2P trend over P2P).

I'm not playing the "I have to prove the negative", you have to prove my facts to be false. Thank you for your circular logic though.

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/361230,new-stats-represent-a-growing-slowly-aging-population-of-gamers-in-australia.aspx

It's just the truth that GenX is the bigger portion of gamers, sorry to tell you.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

(has it really changed? and how?)

I don't claim to know the exact reason why, but mmos have gotten much, much easier. To the point where they are making single player questing based mmos, like ESO.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame you. Nice job Rob.

Easier? Or Less Time Consuming?

Easier. You shouldn't need to ask if you really played UO and EQ.

I don't find them Easier than UO or EQ, I find them less time consuming. Maybe MMO games haven't been difficult to me though.

Melian

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

But provide nothing to tell me how my generation's preferences shape the changing industry (has it really changed? and how?) who have been gaming for 10 years as well.

Of course, you could be two years younger than me and technically in a different generation. Millennials, as a whole, have not been gaming as long as GenX; that's self-evident. They were certainly not the core audience for early MMO's.

As for games getting easier, though, I don't know if it's fair to blame the Millennials. I'd blame the devs who have figured out it's easier to try to addict people with slot-machine design than to create genuinely interesting, challenging content. Younger gamers simply don't know any better. It's easy to rip them off by calling things "modern".

Gohlar

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

(has it really changed? and how?)

I don't claim to know the exact reason why, but mmos have gotten much, much easier. To the point where they are making single player questing based mmos, like ESO.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame you. Nice job Rob.

Easier? Or Less Time Consuming?

Easier. You shouldn't need to ask if you really played UO and EQ.

I don't find them Easier than UO or EQ, I find them less time consuming. Maybe MMO games haven't been difficult to me though.

Goodbye credibility.

Melian wrote: »

As for games getting easier, though, I don't know if it's fair to blame the Millennials. I'd blame the devs who have figured out it's easier to try to addict people with slot-machine design than to create genuinely interesting, challenging content. Younger gamers simply don't know any better. It's easy to rip them off by calling things "modern".

I agree with this. It's about sales. I was just joking around.

MysticAura

loops73 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

That phrase is the new "there are no women on the internet", isn't it?

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

The only way you could think the world was lifeless is if you stand in a corner looking at a wall. There are wildlife, players, and npcs everywhere..I can't look anywhere without seeing movement and life. Unless you're wishing the rocks and trees would jump up and do a dance, I really don't see an ounce of validity in your statement.

The graphics are good. One of the first things people notice is how pretty the world is. They are much better than most MMO's out there. Maybe you should try raising your settings.

Yes questing is important here, not every game in the world has to cater to grinders and power levelers. Some actually like to have a story behind their actions. Quests in other MMO's are basic collect or kill. Unless you strip the actual story out because you can't be bothered to listen, very few if any of these quests are basic.

There are some issues with naturalization in pvp currently, but the basic concept of their ava is good. I'm hoping they separate the campaigns into level range areas instead of the current naturalization which doesn't work as intended.

The game is new, there are many things that will need ironing out and this is expected. No game has ever come out perfect at launch. Slam it if you wish, but please use arguments that are valid. Lifeless and bad graphics is just blatantly untrue.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Melian wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

But provide nothing to tell me how my generation's preferences shape the changing industry (has it really changed? and how?) who have been gaming for 10 years as well.

Of course, you could be two years younger than me and in a different generation. Millennials, as a whole, have not been gaming as long as GenX; that's self-evident. They were certainly not the core audience for early MMO's.

As for games getting easier, though, I don't know if it's fair to blame the Millennials. I'd blame the devs who have figured out it's easier to try to addict people with slot-machine design than to create genuinely interesting, challenging content. Younger gamers simply don't know any better. It's easy to rip them off by calling things "modern".

I'm actually five years younger than you.

Anyway, I think it's a combination of a saturated market, trying to appeal to a wider audience (Less Time Consumption), development time being slower than customer expectations, CEO expectations of the big bucks rather than making a profit (systemic problem in our global market), and few new innovations.

Personally I like ESO and will gladly pay a sub fee.

Gohlar

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

If you find this off putting, maybe it'd be nice if others would stop being the old man blaming the next generation for their woes?

I think this is what's causing you to use such poor logic, it seems you have an existing issue regarding age and identity.

robertbmilesb14_ESO

Gohlar wrote: »

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

If you find this off putting, maybe it'd be nice if others would stop being the old man blaming the next generation for their woes?

I think this is what's causing you to use such poor logic, it seems you have an existing issue regarding age and identity.

Yes a personal attack on my character that has nothing to do with what's being discussed... brilliant.

No I do not, I was not the first to generalize and blame a subset group of people by age. If I hit a nerve pointing out the age of everyone around me who are the paying customers, sorry, but you gotta own up your own transgressions before you blame those who came after you.