Won't go f2p will it?

knightblaster

Every MMO company has to play it close on this issue, given the current market conditions.

The stark reality is that generally MMOs can't support subscriptions long-term. The exceptions to that are WoW (obvious outlier in many ways) and EVE (niche with pretty much no real competition in its niche). There are other games which retained subscriptions until they failed (WAR is an example), and some older games which have small but dedicated subscriber bases (were much cheaper to make, cost of production was long, long ago amortized, and going F2P would not generate a lot of new customers, so it makes sense to continue to milk sub fees from a 50k large playerbase for a game that is 13-15 years old). Most newer games haven't been able to sustain it for the long term -- too much competition in the market, too much playerbase fragmentation, which results in a decided lack of willingness of many players to subscribe to a game unless it brings them huge additional and incremental value that are absolutely unavailable in non-subscription games or in another game that they are currently subscribed to or which they expect to revive their subscription for in the next few months.

For newer AAA games with much higher production costs, and therefore much higher needed rates of return to pencil, they need a healthy combo of (1) "box" sales (i.e., buying the game, whether digitally or physically) and (2) ongoing income. They need both given the cost of production which needs to be recouped before the game can begin to be profitable -- and AAA titles are expensive as hell to produce. Most AAA titles will start as sub games, because for the most part even if they have a B2P/F2P contingency plan behind the scenes, they can still generate quite a bit of cash in a few months of subscriptions, even in the context of a shrinking playerbase in that period. Whether they stay as sub games depends on how many subscribers they retain after a few months as compared with what they think they could attract using a B2P/F2P model (with the baked in assumption of a certain spend per player, on average, in that model, using other industry examples as comparable benchmarks).

I don't think anyone knows the future of this game, really, or can accurately predict this at the present time. If it does go one way or the other, the key factor will be the number of people who retain a subscription to the game at the end of 30, 60 and 90 days.

Melian

robertbmilesb14_ESO wrote: »

Lets get one thing straight, it is not us Millennials who are the ME generation (20s-early 30s), it's you GenXers(mid 30s-early 50s). Do you listen to yourselves?

The people who are "leaving" (I haven't noticed any of this btw) are the powergamers/powerlevelers who have no real life outside of gaming and just played for days on end to level and didn't take a look at the content at all.

When the gaming industry picks up on this they'll understand what's going on. Also, keep in mind folks buy a game and may not like it.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/03/the-daily-grind-are-mmo-gamers-aging-out-of-the-genre/

You really should be blaming GenXers more as the "Me" folks when my generation only makes up 25% on average as the MMO group base.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130552/unmasking_the_avatar_the_.php?print=1

Actually the term "me generation" usually refers to Baby Boomers. As for the study you linked, it was done from 1999-2004, apparently, and it lists games like EQ and UO: games GenXers were playing (and paying to play) in our teens and twenties. We were the young people in that study, though its conclusions don't appear to support your argument anyway.
You might be a smaller percentage of gamers for now but you are the new gamers who don't remember how things used to be (I would say, "should be").

rager82b14_ESO

If this game does not stop being a BUGGY POS before the 30 days are up. They going to find themselves needing to go f2p.

loops73

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

Melian

loops73 wrote: »

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

That phrase is the new "there are no women on the internet", isn't it?

rager82b14_ESO

If they can get the bugs fixed, If they can push out content fast enough. Aka adding Dark BrotherHood. Endless quests where we can just go off and do random gen missions for them. Thieves guild to go around stealing stuff, and a law system. This game will be rocking. Right now, I feel like we only got half a damn elder scrolls game.

loops73

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

That phrase is the new "there are no women on the internet", isn't it?

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

stylernaku

What I will say about the current youth gamer generation, is that they have a ferocious focus on hacking and exploiting and nay saying something into the ground.

They seem to be the last to celebrate anything but at the same time have this bipolar like fan boyisim.

There's no middle ground it's complete polar opposites, if a game does manage to get past their steep expectations it's instantly promoted to "so much win, best game ever! EPIC".

Look at metacritic for another example of something that was brought into existence as a really usefull review resource, until this angsty socially challenged group of keyboard hobbits decided it's far more fun to just troll the absolute shite out of everything, just to see how low they can get a score. Their cheesy Doritos encrusted digits prodding the life out of their keyboard at speed about a product they probably haven't even taken the time to experience.

I mean it's all about the cyber lulz right?

I also don't get this gender confused wave of people festering on forums for most sites/games/films/music using anime lolita woman as their avatar or some such... wtf is that about. BF3/4 forums are crammed with them (don't even get me started on the Warthunder forums).

The geeky male gamers who also insist on playing a female character in games (just like this actually) also makes me wonder what the hell is going on there. Hey if someone wants to a roll a female toon now and again sure why not, it's an avatar of pixels right what does it matter, I'd do it sure.

That's a far cry though from ALWAYS picking females as petite as possible...is it time to accept something about yourself there bro? Hey i'm not against homosexual people, have some good friends who are, it's just that I think your suppression of some home truths there is starting to cause you some inner pain.

You need to let your inner peacock fly bro, you need to reach and grab that rainbow, don't keep it in all inside bottled up, geek rages on the tinterwebs don't help son.

I'll just say that none of the female gamers I know, from casual to hardcore (My Mrs is a gamer btw) insist on playing some burly over stereo typical guy every single time they have a chance to in game.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is gaming these days is fighting a loosing battle it seems to me against a young generation that are:

1.Forever hard to impress.
2. More eager to find every exploit and flaw in your product possible than actually try to enjoy it.
3. Find more fun in generally f*cking with people and ruining their day instead of being sociable and embracing the slightest notion of manners or team play.
4. Pouring all of their personal angst, gender confusion, and lack of social interaction in the real world into angst filled forum posts and smack talk fueled PvP.

I'm from the Atari to Spectrum 128k going to Sonic the hedgehog on Mega drive gamer generation. Back then being a little brat with bi polar not willing to play a game for what it was, was called out for exactly what it was, constantly being a little D1CK!

I'm starting to think perhaps EA has fully realized this ahead of time and thought, you know what F*ck it, these ungrateful little b*stards are going to complain anyway lets fleece them of the cash and keep them happy with flawed games to complain about that they will still buy by the sh*t load while saying on that games forum EVER SINGLE TIME "I'll never buy an EA game again FIX your game" (until the next game I pre order due to a flashy trailer and wub wub)...

I am so, so, SO, sick of these gamer nerds today (with the "female gamers" on youtube all lipstick and cleavage knowing next to nothing about the game they are playing sat in their knickers and batman tee).

Games Like ESO here have no chance against this fecking constant pubescent rising tide of NOPE!

One day man, one day:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBWbpTJRqk

Melian

loops73 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

That phrase is the new "there are no women on the internet", isn't it?

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

Well, if you label everyone who likes it a fanboy, I guess your statement is unfalsifiable.

loops73

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

sorry to say it,but this game will be FTP in a year.

That phrase is the new "there are no women on the internet", isn't it?

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

Well, if you label everyone who likes it a fanboy, I guess your statement is unfalsifiable.

lol so that's all you take from my statement?? not the fact that this game offers nothing new,has already had a game breaking bug(dupes) and really did not sell well on a global scale.

Shimond

loops73 wrote: »

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

All you're really doing is saying why it isn't the game for you (apparently).

So that begs the question, what are you doing here?

loops73

Shimond wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

All you're really doing is saying why it isn't the game for you (apparently).

So that begs the question, what are you doing here?

I paid for it,will do what I want with my 30 days..thanks for asking

stylernaku

Shimond wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

you jest now,but there is nothing to keep people playing this game other than fanboyism..Eso is not a great mmo,in fact its the opposite...the world is lifeless,graphics are not great,most of the game is collect 3 books,pelts whatever quests,pvp is a joke..should I go on?

All you're really doing is saying why it isn't the game for you (apparently).

So that begs the question, what are you doing here?

Precisely, there's ALWAYS people paying monthly for a game, coming on the forums, claiming it's due to die and it's crap.

I can only think it's the bank of mum and dad who pay the sub, so if they truly don't like the game, and aren't trolling, it's no skin of their nose to keep coming back to get that negative doom sayer kick.

doggie

So far it's not been going too well for the game. The game has not sold that well, and the way they have handled game breaking exploits does not impress me.

They basicly only took action when it spilled over to destroying the game. Which is too late in my opinion.

If they can push out new content rapidly over the next 2 months then hopefully they will sell more game boxes. But considering they haven't showed anything other than that adv. zone it dosen't seem like they have something up their sleeve to pull out.

The only thing that will get me to quit is if the game goes f2p or they fire half their staff. If not I'll play untill I hit VR10.

stylernaku

Right stop. Doggie (best non troll name I have ever read) just stop.

Not sold well?

You also want new content PUSHED but will be the first to complain if this pushed content has bugs and down time to fix it right?

STOP.

You're typing crap, just crap.

Either we both know that because your fanning flames, or you need to accept it.

nekrosis258

p2p or f2p? after the free 30 days expire you will know...

Selstad

One of the good things about Pay modules that some MMOs are running on, is that it's an effective barrier between the WoWified naysayers and the game. Once the "free" time is up, they scamper back to WoW to stand in their major city to complain about how bad WoW is and how boring it is, while they freely pay for it.

Greydog

I don't think we should so blithely disregard that f2p boogyman. It is a very profitable business plan and we are fortunate that Zenimax has chosen to ignore it's powerful appeal. But the bottom line is the bottom line.

TES has a loyal following but subs from just that subgroup of players will never be enough to keep this game above water. What this means is that Zen will need to find a way to appeal to the larger group of players out there. 40 hour a week working types who don't have endless time on their hands. As they are the bread and butter that any smart business person would at least attempt to cater to.

ESO has a good core and a willingness to deviate from the norm which is a good foundation to build from. Zen needs to recognize that a lack of convenience and quality of life features will not draw people who actually like value for their money and will keep looking till they find it.

On the side-topic

Every generation has their "more me now" types. The difference is that over the last couple of decades. kids have been indoctrinated in the lifestyle. Always being told you're "special" and that everyone should be equal regardless of effort is a fallacy and has done the world no good at all.

Life isn't fair, it's never been fair and it's never going to be fair.

Generalizations aside. Convenience is the way of the modern world. People are used to convenience and many will pay for it.

Shimond

Greydog wrote: »

TES has a loyal following but subs from just that subgroup of players will never be enough to keep this game above water. What this means is that Zen will need to find a way to appeal to the larger group of players out there. 40 hour a week working types who don't have endless time on their hands. As they are the bread and butter that any smart business person would at least attempt to cater to.

I'm not so sure this is really true. Skyrim sold far more copies than the number of subs WOW had at its peak.

A lot will depend on the console release, I think.

stylernaku

Some real logic there from Greydog, good stuff.

Gohlar

Anyone with experience playing mmos sees the F2P writing on the wall. ESO is a decent single player game, but a pretty poor mmo. No chance it will maintain the sub model, especially with it coming out on consoles.

It's not so bad, the game will survive. Just don't expect very much in the way of new content.

I think one of their biggest mistakes is making group play so unrewarding. So many people are getting turned off once they realize the multiplayer parts don't allow you to progress. Generic solo quests will never support a sub model.

Greydog

Shimond wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

TES has a loyal following but subs from just that subgroup of players will never be enough to keep this game above water. What this means is that Zen will need to find a way to appeal to the larger group of players out there. 40 hour a week working types who don't have endless time on their hands. As they are the bread and butter that any smart business person would at least attempt to cater to.

I'm not so sure this is really true. Skyrim sold far more copies than the number of subs WOW had at its peak.

A lot will depend on the console release, I think.

Box sales and subs are two different animals. Box sales fill the initial coffers ..the amount of subs coming in dictate how full the coffers stay.

Skyrim didn't need subs as it's not an MMO.

Gohlar

Greydog wrote: »

Shimond wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

TES has a loyal following but subs from just that subgroup of players will never be enough to keep this game above water. What this means is that Zen will need to find a way to appeal to the larger group of players out there. 40 hour a week working types who don't have endless time on their hands. As they are the bread and butter that any smart business person would at least attempt to cater to.

I'm not so sure this is really true. Skyrim sold far more copies than the number of subs WOW had at its peak.

A lot will depend on the console release, I think.

Box sales and subs are two different animals. Box sales fill the initial coffers ..the amount of subs coming in dictate how full the coffers stay.

Skyrim didn't need subs as it's not an MMO.

I think they should have just made another single player game, they wasted a lot of money making an mmo when they clearly just want everyone questing. This isn't even as good as Skyrim as a single player game, and it's one of the weakest mmos ever released as a multiplayer game.

Imagine a 200 million Skyrim. Oh well.

Melian

loops73 wrote: »

lol so that's all you take from my statement?? not the fact that this game offers nothing new,has already had a game breaking bug(dupes) and really did not sell well on a global scale.

I have been playing the game for three months (on and off); I trust my own perceptions over your vague rant. "The world is lifeless" "pvp is a joke" - you call those "facts"? Is that what they're teaching kids in school these days? I'm sure that makes me a fangirl in your eyes. *shrug*

stylernaku

The team who made Skyrim are separate to this who do single player only. If there is another game after Skyrim is will be in that format with it's own lore.

Gohlar

stylernaku wrote: »

The team who made Skyrim are separate to this who do single player only. If there is another game after Skyrim is will be in that format with it's own lore.

Oh I know, I'm just saying it was a massive mistake to make an mmo and then set it up so endless solo questing is required to advance. They made all the mmos bits completely unrewarding. Players need to choose between progress and multiplayer.

I mean, what's the point? Waste of money.

Shimond

Greydog wrote: »

Box sales and subs are two different animals. Box sales fill the initial coffers ..the amount of subs coming in dictate how full the coffers stay.

Skyrim didn't need subs as it's not an MMO.

Of course. Your initial comment was on the fanbase present (compared to the MMO fanbase in general), which I believe you are grossly underestimating. Time will tell.

ciffix

We Don't know what will happen to the game, they lose subs and win subs.
I hope it will stay a sub based game. If not, i will return to warcraft.

loops73

Melian wrote: »

loops73 wrote: »

lol so that's all you take from my statement?? not the fact that this game offers nothing new,has already had a game breaking bug(dupes) and really did not sell well on a global scale.

I have been playing the game for three months (on and off); I trust my own perceptions over your vague rant. "The world is lifeless" "pvp is a joke" - you call those "facts"? Is that what they're teaching kids in school these days? I'm sure that makes me a fangirl in your eyes. *shrug*

lol..stop and look at the world you are questing in,nothing moves,it looks like a fake movie set,the world does not feel alive and immersive.PVP is a joke,one big zerg fest with OP emperors that can wipe out 30 people by themselves..horrible...the kid thing made me laugh because I am probably old enough to be your dad and have been playing mmos since they came into existence.

Greydog

Shimond wrote: »

Greydog wrote: »

Box sales and subs are two different animals. Box sales fill the initial coffers ..the amount of subs coming in dictate how full the coffers stay.

Skyrim didn't need subs as it's not an MMO.

Of course. Your initial comment was on the fanbase present (compared to the MMO fanbase in general), which I believe you are grossly underestimating. Time will tell.

How many of the people who paid for Skyrim are still playing. My guess would be less than 50%. If they were counting on subs from those players to keep development and support for "Skyrim" going they would be SOL. Once you've paid your 50 bucks for that sp game your monetary contribution is done. You can play to your hearts content and never need to worry about it.

TES games have sold a lot of boxes but still I'd wager that only a fraction of those sales culminate in actual "loyal" fans.