Rollback yes or no

South_of_Heaven

xPuppetx wrote: »

But how would a rollback solve anything?

I agree that duping is 32 flavors of ****** up, but why should my toons lose levels, money and resources because of the actions of others? Punish the people responsible and let the rest of us be.

Instead of a rollback we should be talking about a separate clean server.

Whoever wants to make a clean start could hop to it while the rest who don't want "to lose their hard earned characters and items" can stay and play with the dupers for the next years.

Punishing all the people responsible or retracting the items is not humanly possible.

Tabbycat

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

South_of_Heaven

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

babylon

Hyperian wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

UnknownMage wrote: »

A rollback sounds like the dumbest idea ever. For what purpose?

Inflation, PvP campaigns already influenced (dupe of siege weapons, forward camps, Grand Soul Gems), Alliance Points, et cetera, it's all messed up and only those who profited of it would be against the rollback.

Also that's the way serious companies act. It happened in many games, lastly in Guild Wars 2.

I disagree, I actually think those who duped and cheated are scared they will be caught and want a rollback to avoid being banned. All us honest people would prefer to keep all the stuff we worked hard for--ok?

This is the more likely scenario - cheaters would appreciate a rollback because it would hide evidence of their cheating. A rollback would only help the exploiters get away with it all with accounts intact, while causing all the normal players grief. The exploiters would then find new things to exploit and gain advantage with anyway while the rest of us slog through the same content AGAIN and get to watch the cheaters destroy the servers once more.

Only way out of this is with the exploiters getting banned forever, and this needs to include all their accounts (not just the one found to be holding the hot potato).

tokyov

This was known for a LONG time. Since at least February. NO excuse. Selling this POS game.

South_of_Heaven

babylon wrote: »

Hyperian wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

UnknownMage wrote: »

A rollback sounds like the dumbest idea ever. For what purpose?

Inflation, PvP campaigns already influenced (dupe of siege weapons, forward camps, Grand Soul Gems), Alliance Points, et cetera, it's all messed up and only those who profited of it would be against the rollback.

Also that's the way serious companies act. It happened in many games, lastly in Guild Wars 2.

I disagree, I actually think those who duped and cheated are scared they will be caught and want a rollback to avoid being banned. All us honest people would prefer to keep all the stuff we worked hard for--ok?

This is the more likely scenario - cheaters would appreciate a rollback because it would hide evidence of their cheating. A rollback would only help the exploiters get away with it all with accounts intact, while causing all the normal players grief. The exploiters would then find new things to exploit and gain advantage with anyway while the rest of us slog through the same content AGAIN and get to watch the cheaters destroy the servers once more.

Only way out of this is with the exploiters getting banned forever, and this needs to include all their accounts (not just the one found to be holding the hot potato).

Wow, just wow! This theory about exploiters wanting a rollback is one of the funniest things yet, the community has brought out. Do you seriously believe it or are you one of the exploiters yourself and just know you will never be caught and don't want a rollback in order to keep your ill-gained items?


Say, 100 dupers have used 1 account to dupe. Distributed the items and used them for all kinds of purposes already. Do you know how long this has been going on? Do you think the items can just be retracted?
Most will have already been used for maxing out crafting skills, duping siege weapons and promoting players in pvp to emperorship, making sets of legendary items, duping motifs and other rarities which have already been traded and used, huge raw duped quantities of materials already refined.

And you still believe that everything will be ok eh. Blessed are... gah nm.

xPuppetx

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

It amazes me that you seriously believe they should create a 'clean' server just for you. How is that a reasonable expectation?

This sense of entitlement confounds me.

babylon

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Hyperian wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

UnknownMage wrote: »

A rollback sounds like the dumbest idea ever. For what purpose?

Inflation, PvP campaigns already influenced (dupe of siege weapons, forward camps, Grand Soul Gems), Alliance Points, et cetera, it's all messed up and only those who profited of it would be against the rollback.

Also that's the way serious companies act. It happened in many games, lastly in Guild Wars 2.

I disagree, I actually think those who duped and cheated are scared they will be caught and want a rollback to avoid being banned. All us honest people would prefer to keep all the stuff we worked hard for--ok?

This is the more likely scenario - cheaters would appreciate a rollback because it would hide evidence of their cheating. A rollback would only help the exploiters get away with it all with accounts intact, while causing all the normal players grief. The exploiters would then find new things to exploit and gain advantage with anyway while the rest of us slog through the same content AGAIN and get to watch the cheaters destroy the servers once more.

Only way out of this is with the exploiters getting banned forever, and this needs to include all their accounts (not just the one found to be holding the hot potato).

Wow, just wow! This theory about exploiters wanting a rollback is one of the funniest things yet, the community has brought out. Do you seriously believe it or are you one of the exploiters yourself and just know you will never be caught and don't want a rollback in order to keep your ill-gained items?


Say, 100 dupers have used 1 account to dupe. Distributed the items and used them for all kinds of purposes already. Do you know how long this has been going on? Do you think the items can just be retracted?
Most will have already been used for maxing out crafting skills, duping siege weapons and promoting players in pvp to emperorship, making sets of legendary items, duping motifs and other rarities which have already been traded and used, huge raw duped quantities of materials already refined.

And you still believe that everything will be ok eh. Blessed are... gah nm.

Didn't say EVERYONE who wanted a rollback was an exploiter, so put away your histrionics and calm down.

No I am not an exploiter.

And yes it's a sound theory that people who exploited would want to cover their tracks and hold onto their accounts by forcing a rollback on everyone.

Actually your overly dramatic response does make you look suspect...

Wainamoinen

A rollback would be ridiculous.

It would punish the great majority who didn't cheat by wiping out all their effort so far, while allowing those who did cheat to escape real punishment (banning) and carry on. Work out for yourself who'd be in favour of that.

Fixing the bug that was exploited, while attempting to identify and ban those who cheated (and broke the ToS, so they can have no complaints) is the only realistic solution.

I don't know the extent of the records on accounts that are kept. If transactions are tracked, it'll be easy - have they currently got + sold more of something (particularly high-value later game items) than they have received? Ban candidate. Otherwise you're limited to looking at the amounts of stuff they possess and deciding whether that's reasonable.

So far as I've seen there's no duping of gold, only items, so no inflation problem (deflation less of a problem, people can always earn more gold at the normal rate and non-cheats don't get priced out of the market). The items on the accounts duping (or their economic equivalent if they've traded) will have been removed from the game when they're banned, so not great increase in value f items available. My guess is the economic damage would be minor and decreasing over time.

Bans are the only option, rollback to start would be shooting themselves in the head.

zaria

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

Punishing everybody would be "fair" it would also be an insanely operation as you would loose lots of subscribers.
Yes lots of people would quit even if given an month free with the rollback.

South_of_Heaven

xPuppetx wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

It amazes me that you seriously believe they should create a 'clean' server just for you. How is that a reasonable expectation?

This sense of entitlement confounds me.

"Entitlement" must be a trendy word these days in the mmorpg community forums. You can tell by how people keep using it even when it doesn't fit. But never mind that.

So... you seem to think that if they did a new clean launch I would be the only one migrating... hmmm...

As for the items I hope you did think it through and read the next post I made after the one you quoted. I WOULD like to believe too, trust me on that, but I just can't because facts yell otherwise.

tokyov

Wainamoinen wrote: »

A rollback would be ridiculous.

It would punish the great majority who didn't cheat by wiping out all their effort so far, while allowing those who did cheat to escape real punishment (banning) and carry on. Work out for yourself who'd be in favour of that.

Fixing the bug that was exploited, while attempting to identify and ban those who cheated (and broke the ToS, so they can have no complaints) is the only realistic solution.

I don't know the extent of the records on accounts that are kept. If transactions are tracked, it'll be easy - have they currently got + sold more of something (particularly high-value later game items) than they have received? Ban candidate. Otherwise you're limited to looking at the amounts of stuff they possess and deciding whether that's reasonable.

So far as I've seen there's no duping of gold, only items, so no inflation problem (deflation less of a problem, people can always earn more gold at the normal rate and non-cheats don't get priced out of the market). The items on the accounts duping (or their economic equivalent if they've traded) will have been removed from the game when they're banned, so not great increase in value f items available. My guess is the economic damage would be minor and decreasing over time.

Bans are the only option, rollback to start would be shooting themselves in the head.

you do know there are millions of gold duped in this right?

babylon

tokyov wrote: »

Wainamoinen wrote: »

A rollback would be ridiculous.

It would punish the great majority who didn't cheat by wiping out all their effort so far, while allowing those who did cheat to escape real punishment (banning) and carry on. Work out for yourself who'd be in favour of that.

Fixing the bug that was exploited, while attempting to identify and ban those who cheated (and broke the ToS, so they can have no complaints) is the only realistic solution.

I don't know the extent of the records on accounts that are kept. If transactions are tracked, it'll be easy - have they currently got + sold more of something (particularly high-value later game items) than they have received? Ban candidate. Otherwise you're limited to looking at the amounts of stuff they possess and deciding whether that's reasonable.

So far as I've seen there's no duping of gold, only items, so no inflation problem (deflation less of a problem, people can always earn more gold at the normal rate and non-cheats don't get priced out of the market). The items on the accounts duping (or their economic equivalent if they've traded) will have been removed from the game when they're banned, so not great increase in value f items available. My guess is the economic damage would be minor and decreasing over time.

Bans are the only option, rollback to start would be shooting themselves in the head.

you do know there are millions of gold duped in this right?

You do know this exploit has been going on since early access, and a rollback would mean a complete server reset?

zaria

Wainamoinen wrote: »

A rollback would be ridiculous.

It would punish the great majority who didn't cheat by wiping out all their effort so far, while allowing those who did cheat to escape real punishment (banning) and carry on. Work out for yourself who'd be in favour of that.

Fixing the bug that was exploited, while attempting to identify and ban those who cheated (and broke the ToS, so they can have no complaints) is the only realistic solution.

I don't know the extent of the records on accounts that are kept. If transactions are tracked, it'll be easy - have they currently got + sold more of something (particularly high-value later game items) than they have received? Ban candidate. Otherwise you're limited to looking at the amounts of stuff they possess and deciding whether that's reasonable.

So far as I've seen there's no duping of gold, only items, so no inflation problem (deflation less of a problem, people can always earn more gold at the normal rate and non-cheats don't get priced out of the market). The items on the accounts duping (or their economic equivalent if they've traded) will have been removed from the game when they're banned, so not great increase in value f items available. My guess is the economic damage would be minor and decreasing over time.

Bans are the only option, rollback to start would be shooting themselves in the head.

Guild bank transactions is stored so you can see in game. This should be pretty easy to track down as I doubt they delete the log.
Next track people who deposit and withdraw lots of stacks with the same expensive items and look closer at them.

Krym

LadyNerevar wrote: »

You discovered the dupe yesterday?

Identified is not the same as discovered. After a bug has been reported, it has to be verified by their QA folks, and a solution has to be found. "Yesterday we identified" more than likely means "yesterday we were finally able to pin down the cause of this bug, extensively reproduce and document it, and implement the complex code solution needed without causing other bugs or breaking things."

There isn't some massive cover up or malicious ploy. It's something called limited man hours and a problem that is likely far more complex than it seems to the end user.

they could've easily asked the person who reported it how he did it - this is usually the fastest way. the verification then takes 5 minutes. after that it gets decided how it can be prevented until a proper fix is deployed. bam, even with all the office politics that takes 2 days tops. if it takes more ZOS seriously needs to take a look at their management structure.

they also didn't "fix" anything yet, they simply disabled guild banks. which they could've done a week ago.

of course there is no evil plot, the inability to do a job properly isn't evil...

loops73

well,i am certainly not playing on these tainted servers anymore. I think I will just wait for console release and get a fresh start.

Krym

zaria wrote: »

Guild bank transactions is stored so you can see in game. This should be pretty easy to track down as I doubt they delete the log.
Next track people who deposit and withdraw lots of stacks with the same expensive items and look closer at them.

depends how they log it. and then there's still the threshold they consider ban-worthy - which means everyone below it who duped get's a free pass.

I doubt they'll invest the time and manpower to track it down in detail and just run a script to get a list..

loops73

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

babylon wrote: »

Hyperian wrote: »

Saint-Ange wrote: »

UnknownMage wrote: »

A rollback sounds like the dumbest idea ever. For what purpose?

Inflation, PvP campaigns already influenced (dupe of siege weapons, forward camps, Grand Soul Gems), Alliance Points, et cetera, it's all messed up and only those who profited of it would be against the rollback.

Also that's the way serious companies act. It happened in many games, lastly in Guild Wars 2.

I disagree, I actually think those who duped and cheated are scared they will be caught and want a rollback to avoid being banned. All us honest people would prefer to keep all the stuff we worked hard for--ok?

This is the more likely scenario - cheaters would appreciate a rollback because it would hide evidence of their cheating. A rollback would only help the exploiters get away with it all with accounts intact, while causing all the normal players grief. The exploiters would then find new things to exploit and gain advantage with anyway while the rest of us slog through the same content AGAIN and get to watch the cheaters destroy the servers once more.

Only way out of this is with the exploiters getting banned forever, and this needs to include all their accounts (not just the one found to be holding the hot potato).

Wow, just wow! This theory about exploiters wanting a rollback is one of the funniest things yet, the community has brought out. Do you seriously believe it or are you one of the exploiters yourself and just know you will never be caught and don't want a rollback in order to keep your ill-gained items?


Say, 100 dupers have used 1 account to dupe. Distributed the items and used them for all kinds of purposes already. Do you know how long this has been going on? Do you think the items can just be retracted?
Most will have already been used for maxing out crafting skills, duping siege weapons and promoting players in pvp to emperorship, making sets of legendary items, duping motifs and other rarities which have already been traded and used, huge raw duped quantities of materials already refined.

And you still believe that everything will be ok eh. Blessed are... gah nm.

exactly,too many people running around with an unfair advantage do to cheated materials and items that will never be accounted for.Without a rollback this taints the pc version forever in my eyes.

Sanspoof

A rollback would mean having to waste another hour camping for Houndsmen Witches in the hopes of interrogating them faster than the other 20 people trying to get that insipid Restoring the Silvernar quest done. No amount of free game time would be able to compensate for that. Punish the cheaters, not those who are just playing the game minding their own business.

xPuppetx

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

xPuppetx wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

It amazes me that you seriously believe they should create a 'clean' server just for you. How is that a reasonable expectation?

This sense of entitlement confounds me.

"Entitlement" must be a trendy word these days in the mmorpg community forums. You can tell by how people keep using it even when it doesn't fit. But never mind that.

So... you seem to think that if they did a new clean launch I would be the only one migrating... hmmm...

As for the items I hope you did think it through and read the next post I made after the one you quoted. I WOULD like to believe too, trust me on that, but I just can't because facts yell otherwise.

Yes, your posts reek of an exaggerated sense of entitlement and a habit of basing your expectations on emotion rather than logic. You're calling for a break off server for a game that is less than a month old because some people figured out how to cheat? That's an even more unrealistic demand than a rollback.

The best that we can hope for is that the duping situation will be reigned in, measures are taken so that it doesn't happen again, and most of the dupers and their duped goods will be nuked. Then we can worry about the next 'catastrophe' that brings the very small percentage of players who actually browse the forums here to wail and gnash their teeth and await yet another fix for whatever that problem will be as well.

Because there will be another problem - there always is.

As messed up as this whole situation has been it will have little to no impact on the game in the long run. EQ had some of the same issues with exploits when it was launched back in 1999 and it survived. Hell, it's still alive and throwing out regular updates to this day. The only remnants of it's launching pains are us old timers who occasionally sit around and reminisce about them.

doggie

Considering that they have known about this bug since beta, it's fair that some heads roll at Zenimax in my opinion.

Hyperian

Firstly, I agree they should have acted sooner if they did know about it 2 weeks ago. If they didn't know about this then they need to fix what ever communication gaps they have between customer support and the actual development team.

The ones asking for a rollback need to think about the other 95% of the player base who has not cheated and is still running around in Tamriel killing stuff with no clue any of this is going on. A roll back will not work, and its completely ridiculous to think they would do it. I suggested the people asking for a roll back may be the exploiters trying to get a fresh start and hide what they have done, because someone has said " Lets avoid all these bans and appeals and just roll back so everyone is happy". How about lets not? If you decided to stop playing the game as it was meant to be played and cheated to get ahead--I want you out!

The separate server suggestion will not happen and should not happen. They spent months advertising the massive mega server and you think they are just gonna throw it away over exploiters? wont happen.

Please move on to more constructive ideas because those who are repeating the above are doing so for no purpose, Neither of those things will happen.

South_of_Heaven

xPuppetx wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

xPuppetx wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

It amazes me that you seriously believe they should create a 'clean' server just for you. How is that a reasonable expectation?

This sense of entitlement confounds me.

"Entitlement" must be a trendy word these days in the mmorpg community forums. You can tell by how people keep using it even when it doesn't fit. But never mind that.

So... you seem to think that if they did a new clean launch I would be the only one migrating... hmmm...

As for the items I hope you did think it through and read the next post I made after the one you quoted. I WOULD like to believe too, trust me on that, but I just can't because facts yell otherwise.

Yes, your posts reek of an exaggerated sense of entitlement and a habit of basing your expectations on emotion rather than logic. You're calling for a break off server for a game that is less than a month old because some people figured out how to cheat? That's an even more unrealistic demand than a rollback.

The best that we can hope for is that the duping situation will be reigned in, measures are taken so that it doesn't happen again, and most of the dupers and their duped goods will be nuked. Then we can worry about the next 'catastrophe' that brings the very small percentage of players who actually browse the forums here to wail and gnash their teeth and await yet another fix for whatever that problem will be as well.

Because there will be another problem - there always is.

As messed up as this whole situation has been it will have little to no impact on the game in the long run. EQ had some of the same issues with exploits when it was launched back in 1999 and it survived. Hell, it's still alive and throwing out regular updates to this day. The only remnants of it's launching pains are us old timers who occasionally sit around and reminisce about them.

I see that you are trying hard to convince yourself that everything will be fine with an exploit running rampart since beta. Quoting myself:

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

100 dupers have used 1 account to dupe. Distributed the items and used them for all kinds of purposes already. Do you know how long this has been going on? Do you think the items can just be retracted?
Most will have already been used for maxing out crafting skills, duping siege weapons and promoting players in pvp to emperorship, making sets of legendary items, duping motifs and other rarities which have already been traded and used, huge raw duped quantities of materials already refined.

Clearly this reeks of entitlement and emotion? All these things I say in this quote were clearly derived from emotions, yes? Whereas your "everything will be magically fine, the dupers will be banned and the dupes will be...nuked" is factual cold hard logic!

It's amazing how people are willing to ignore facts in front of their face if they want to defend something really bad or to convince themselves that everything will be alright. It leaves me in awe every single time!

PS: Oh and open a lexicon to learn what entitlement means and learn where it can be used. I know it's a trendy word for insults these days, but using it everywhere will make you look silly.

zimzalabimz

I can understand why so many people hate the idea of a roll back, but a roll back is the only solution i see here, you can ban as many people as you want but you have to realise the damage is done, tens of thousands if not millions of legendary and epic materials were duped, the whole crafting system is completely *** now, you will always have a ton of people out there with an insane amount of tempers making the best gear for example. People act like they have been playing there characters for years, but its been almost a month. frankly id rather lose that month all together and have a balanced game. This dupes consequences are going to be noticeable for a long time even if you banned 90% of the dupers the games economy is done. If something drastic isn't done, i'm quiting and taking a lose on my money, i don't want to play in a game where one group of people (which is very possible) having almost unlimited access to gold and crafting tempers. If it was just the gold i could careless, but you can never ban or delete all the items that were duped.

Hyperian

zimzalabimz wrote: »

I can understand why so many people hate the idea of a roll back, but a roll back is the only solution i see here, you can ban as many people as you want but you have to realise the damage is done, tens of thousands if not millions of legendary and epic materials were duped, the whole crafting system is completely *** now, you will always have a ton of people out there with an insane amount of tempers making the best gear for example. People act like they have been playing there characters for years, but its been almost a month. frankly id rather lose that month all together and have a balanced game. This dupes consequences are going to be noticeable for a long time even if you banned 90% of the dupers the games economy is done. If something drastic isn't done, i'm quiting and taking a lose on my money, i don't want to play in a game where one group of people (which is very possible) having almost unlimited access to gold and crafting tempers. If it was just the gold i could careless, but you can never ban or delete all the items that were duped.

I do not understand why people are getting hung up on this. I think you and everyone else needs to realize they can get rid of the duped items. Just like every other game, this game has an Item ID system. When an item is dropped by a boss, spawned in a chest, and put into the game in other ways, They all are done so with an unique ID code tied to that item.

Now then when someone dupes an item. That ID code is then copied to the new item. The system did not put the item into the game, so the item never received a unique ID code. That means all the Zenimax staff has to do is run a search for any items with the same code. If they see a 500 legendary items with the same code, they can easily locate them, ban the person responsible, and remove the item.

The only tricky part is when those copied ID code materials are used to make real items which I would think after being crafted do receive an unique ID code. In that case they would have to check logs for the duplicated codes and then find where or what they went into.

So to summarize what was just said in this wall of text, They CAN remove these duped items. Will they? I have no clue but its is completely within their power.

BlowFish

Sadly you are mistaken, the bug has been about (and detailed on the interwebz) since before release. How many people have exploited it is hard to know. I guess that rules out a roll back. Database logs should be able to identify those that exploited heavily it would then be a simple matter to ban them or wipe thier inventories.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

We're trying to get the word out about the action we took today, in regards to this issue. Here's what we've posted in a few other threads:

Yesterday, we identified an item duping bug in ESO that some players chose to exploit. We acted quickly, and have since fixed the issue. We have banned the game account(s) for those who abused the exploit.

We want to thank everyone who reported this issue to us. In the future, should you identify what you think could be an exploitable bug, please send it to us in-game via /help or in our help center: https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/ask

xPuppetx

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

xPuppetx wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

xPuppetx wrote: »

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I don't think ZOS has to do any sort of rollback in order to remove the duplicated items and gold from the game. They've already banned those who've exploited. I see no reason the rest of us should be punished.

Dang! It amazes me how people can seriously believe everyone will be punished and all the items will be retracted!

It amazes me that you seriously believe they should create a 'clean' server just for you. How is that a reasonable expectation?

This sense of entitlement confounds me.

"Entitlement" must be a trendy word these days in the mmorpg community forums. You can tell by how people keep using it even when it doesn't fit. But never mind that.

So... you seem to think that if they did a new clean launch I would be the only one migrating... hmmm...

As for the items I hope you did think it through and read the next post I made after the one you quoted. I WOULD like to believe too, trust me on that, but I just can't because facts yell otherwise.

Yes, your posts reek of an exaggerated sense of entitlement and a habit of basing your expectations on emotion rather than logic. You're calling for a break off server for a game that is less than a month old because some people figured out how to cheat? That's an even more unrealistic demand than a rollback.

The best that we can hope for is that the duping situation will be reigned in, measures are taken so that it doesn't happen again, and most of the dupers and their duped goods will be nuked. Then we can worry about the next 'catastrophe' that brings the very small percentage of players who actually browse the forums here to wail and gnash their teeth and await yet another fix for whatever that problem will be as well.

Because there will be another problem - there always is.

As messed up as this whole situation has been it will have little to no impact on the game in the long run. EQ had some of the same issues with exploits when it was launched back in 1999 and it survived. Hell, it's still alive and throwing out regular updates to this day. The only remnants of it's launching pains are us old timers who occasionally sit around and reminisce about them.

I see that you are trying hard to convince yourself that everything will be fine with an exploit running rampart since beta. Quoting myself:

South_of_Heaven wrote: »

100 dupers have used 1 account to dupe. Distributed the items and used them for all kinds of purposes already. Do you know how long this has been going on? Do you think the items can just be retracted?
Most will have already been used for maxing out crafting skills, duping siege weapons and promoting players in pvp to emperorship, making sets of legendary items, duping motifs and other rarities which have already been traded and used, huge raw duped quantities of materials already refined.

Clearly this reeks of entitlement and emotion? All these things I say in this quote were clearly derived from emotions, yes? Whereas your "everything will be magically fine, the dupers will be banned and the dupes will be...nuked" is factual cold hard logic!

It's amazing how people are willing to ignore facts in front of their face if they want to defend something really bad or to convince themselves that everything will be alright. It leaves me in awe every single time!

PS: Oh and open a lexicon to learn what entitlement means and learn where it can be used. I know it's a trendy word for insults these days, but using it everywhere will make you look silly.

Actually yes, I do know how long it's been going on. The duping exploit was pointed out and reported many times during beta. Zenimax, for whatever reason, was only able to pinpoint the source of the exploit quite recently however.

Everything will be magically fine? Which orifice did you pull that one from? I'm assuming the same one you wrenched that number of dupers from.

As I wrote in the post you quoted but apparently did not comprehend, there will always be problems; duping isn't the first, nor will it be the last. Mistakes will be made, skills will be nerfed, people will cheat and the minority of players who frequent the forums will rage. I'm afraid that you're in for a terrible time if you're expecting smooth sailing in this or any mmo, kiddo.

Now, as entertaining as this has been I will gracefully bow out, lest the powers that be decide to close the thread due to it's deterioration into a verbal slugfest. Good luck to you in your endeavor for a spotless server and a flawless game.

As for me, I'm going to ride off into the sunrise upon my trusty unicorn, with a lexicon and a trendy sense of entitlement.

Onward, to glory!

butterfly442

The dupe has been around since beta. So a rollback would have to encompass everything, including early access. I'm still banned, so I'm gonna say, sure roll back all you want. Wont affect me.

Scott

A rollback wouldn't affect me much at all, because my highest level character at this point is level ten. And I'm not an endgame player. As I did in the past with WoW I will probably dabble around in the mid level content.

I like roguelike characters, and the element of an MMO game that matters to me is that there's a virtual world to act within that contains real people, not what my 'standing' is in that world. There's little cost to me in throwing it all away and starting over, and with that mindset it's hard to imagine a rollback mattering either way.

But I know there are people who play the game an entirely different way, where ranking and the rush-to-endgame is what it's about. And there needs to be a place for those people to congregate, which is the PvP area.

There are also those players who play the game like a 'book' and want a linear sequence that they don't have to re-play. Of course, in this game there are three factions, and so three starting storylines of content to play through if they have to start over. Really, there are enough 'tracks' that creative lore players should find plenty of paths to weave through, even if forced to start over.

But really, the issue of a possible roll-back needs to focus on the fact that we are right now at the bootstrap point in the start of a virtual world. Hitting 'reset' will turn some people off, while on the other hand some people feel that the 'program' has drifted so far off into corruption at this point that a 'reset' is warranted.

Whatever happens, a robust and diverse player population is the most important consideration. Having a lot of smart creative people rage-quit would be unfortunate. It's important at this point the game for there to be players out 'living' in the world through their characters. And I think that will happen, rollback or not, going forward. So I'm optimistic.

zimzalabimz

Hyperian wrote: »

zimzalabimz wrote: »

I can understand why so many people hate the idea of a roll back, but a roll back is the only solution i see here, you can ban as many people as you want but you have to realise the damage is done, tens of thousands if not millions of legendary and epic materials were duped, the whole crafting system is completely *** now, you will always have a ton of people out there with an insane amount of tempers making the best gear for example. People act like they have been playing there characters for years, but its been almost a month. frankly id rather lose that month all together and have a balanced game. This dupes consequences are going to be noticeable for a long time even if you banned 90% of the dupers the games economy is done. If something drastic isn't done, i'm quiting and taking a lose on my money, i don't want to play in a game where one group of people (which is very possible) having almost unlimited access to gold and crafting tempers. If it was just the gold i could careless, but you can never ban or delete all the items that were duped.

I do not understand why people are getting hung up on this. I think you and everyone else needs to realize they can get rid of the duped items. Just like every other game, this game has an Item ID system. When an item is dropped by a boss, spawned in a chest, and put into the game in other ways, They all are done so with an unique ID code tied to that item.

Now then when someone dupes an item. That ID code is then copied to the new item. The system did not put the item into the game, so the item never received a unique ID code. That means all the Zenimax staff has to do is run a search for any items with the same code. If they see a 500 legendary items with the same code, they can easily locate them, ban the person responsible, and remove the item.

The only tricky part is when those copied ID code materials are used to make real items which I would think after being crafted do receive an unique ID code. In that case they would have to check logs for the duplicated codes and then find where or what they went into.

So to summarize what was just said in this wall of text, They CAN remove these duped items. Will they? I have no clue but its is completely within their power.

If they HAD the ability to organize and get rid of all the duped items they would have. There is no way to get rid of all the duped items, that would mean going over hundreds of thousands of accounts one by one to make sure each person got there items the legit way or risk pissing people off. Even if they did all ban the people who had lots of items and gold, more then they should have that one guy could have given 25 legendary items to 25 different people via mail and in person and you can never calculate all that data for that many people, its way to expensive. You have to understand these botters are using thousands of "faked" accounts that they cant tell are real or not. unique item id doesn't mean *** if the data itself would take months to process for millions of players. Since there is just the mega servers it makes it even worse, its a whole game issue not even an individual server problem which complicates thing waaay more since every player has access to pretty much every other player all the time with anywhere in game mail. it's a very serious and very complicated issue, to say "its completely in their power" is crazy to me. They cant even fix major quest lines, do you really think they can search through millions of players worth of data and fish out all the bad eggs without banning an insane amount of innocent people (like what is happening now).They're probably using every single resource they have trying to fix this game, considering its still so close to launch and they still cant even get half of the bots down (i'm seeing just as many gold spammers and bots as ever). Tracking and banning bots/gold sellers, is much easier then tracking down items and wide spread gold in the multiple millions. All IMO of course.