Do you Believe Lack of Inventory Space May Cause Some Cancellations?

Brennan

Maybe

Dbetz007 wrote: »

Way more complicated than that .. each recipie requires different ingredients some need 3 or more same for alchemy .. obviously you haven't worked on them for more than 30 seconds.. Plus when your doing provisioning for other people too it becomes a problem quickly. Try it for a few weeks and you will see oh and try to cover many level ranges too so that you can provide for guildies of various levels soon you will understand.

Both my alchemy and provisioning are capped at 50. If you choose to craft "blue" food then you need 3 ingredients and the rest should just be burned via crafting, or sold, or put in a guild bank. At least, this is the strategy that I have adopted to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is your prerogative

If you choose to cook for your guildies, I can certainly appreciate your generosity since you not only are giving them the food for free (and I am not in anyway opposed to this) but also making sure they don't have to bottleneck their inventories because you've chosen to bottleneck yours instead. I have chosen not to adopt this strategy. I've adopted a strategy wherein if a guildie wants some food or drink made and wants me to use my Chef and Brewer traits to maximize the yield for their ingredients gathered, I am happy to do so. That is the strategy I have chosen to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is entirely up to you.

Any way you look at it, the challenges you're facing in managing your inventory are directly related to the choices you're making.

LastLaugh

Maybe

kcolasaccob14_ESO wrote: »

In ESO, the starting inventory size is 60 slots on character. Please tell me the size of a character's starting inventory in a few other games.
WoW?
RIFT?
Everquest?
DAoC?
Everquest 2?
Guild Wars?
Neverwinter?
Final Fantasy XIV?

It's not the size of the starting slots that causes the problem. It's the cost of upgrades and the volume of materials required for crafting.

Guild Wars was a bad example for someone on your side of this debate to choose. GW2 has a separate crafting bank. If the developers implement that system in this game you won't hear another word from me on this issue.

In WoW, tailors, leatherworkers and blacksmiths can create their own bags. I'd be happy if ESO introduced that option. It's been a while since I played, but I remember 10-slot bags being a dime a dozen. What's more, they didn't escalate in price every time you bought them.

I never complained about the inventory systems on either of those games, which handled this far better than ESO does.

LastLaugh

Maybe

Duplicate post, sorry.

rcgreen99ub17_ESO

Maybe

No, I doubt many people would quit because of this, but of course there will be a few.
I do find the storage to be slightly annoying, but it's just part of the drive to keep playing. Once you are a higher level, you will have more money. This is the beginning of the game, so as of right now it is causing problems. A month from now? Nobody will have any problems.
I feel like you guys are forgetting that this is an Elder Scrolls game, too. In Skyrim, I would frequently max out my inventory and have to go to a city.

apterous

No

there is way more space than you need, these kleptomanic collectors need to learn to give up some things they don't even *** need.

Dbetz007

Yes

LastLaugh wrote: »

kcolasaccob14_ESO wrote: »

In ESO, the starting inventory size is 60 slots on character. Please tell me the size of a character's starting inventory in a few other games.
WoW?
RIFT?
Everquest?
DAoC?
Everquest 2?
Guild Wars?
Neverwinter?
Final Fantasy XIV?

It's not the size of the starting slots that causes the problem. It's the cost of upgrades and the volume of materials required for crafting.

Guild Wars was a bad example for someone on your side of this debate to choose. GW2 has a separate crafting bank. If the developers implement that system in this game you won't hear another word from me on this issue.

In WoW, tailors, leatherworkers and blacksmiths can create their own bags. I'd be happy if ESO introduced that option. It's been a while since I played, but I remember 10-slot bags being a dime a dozen. What's more, they didn't escalate in price every time you bought them.

I never complained about the inventory systems on either of those games, which handled this far better than ESO does.

I personally agree with you on it not being the amount really I just don't care for it to be a complete cluster and generally do not like to travel with all of my crafting provisions and things on me. I especially agree on the crafting bank idea from GW2 that would solve all my issues completely. As for the other games Everquest was easy inventory as it was not account wide each toon had their own stuff and had a limited shared bank space.. Neverwinter has shared bank space true but it was much more than 60 slots and the guild bank was available even if you didnt have 10 people playing you could have four and you had the bank. Rift had a shared bank space and private bank space if I can recall correctly. I didn't play EQ2 or DAoC so don't know and stopped playing final fantasy games after FFX.. Every other MMO title I have played has had both private bank space with a shared bank space around 80 to 100 items and personal space of about 60 items.. or if no shared bank space you could mail yourself stuff so your other toons could pick it up. In large the only two crafting professions I see having a problem with space is if you do Provisioning or Alchemy the others are less of a problem as far as I can see.

knightblaster

Yes

kcolasaccob14_ESO wrote: »

In ESO, the starting inventory size is 60 slots on character. Please tell me the size of a character's starting inventory in a few other games.
WoW?
RIFT?
Everquest?
DAoC?
Everquest 2?
Guild Wars?
Neverwinter?
Final Fantasy XIV?

In fairness the size, as an absolute value, isn't very revealing. It's size relative to the number of materials in any given tier that is more revealing. So a more interesting comparison would be the ratio of starting space as compared with the number of materials, on average, for the permitted number of professions.

When you look at it that way, it becomes clear that this is a means to have a soft cap, rather than a hard cap (i.e., you can only have two crafting professions, which is a hard cap). ZOS has said that this was their intention as well, quite openly.

Brennan

Maybe

Dbetz007 wrote: »

I personally agree with you on it not being the amount really I just don't care for it to be a complete cluster and generally do not like to travel with all of my crafting provisions and things on me. I especially agree on the crafting bank idea from GW2 that would solve all my issues completely. As for the other games Everquest was easy inventory as it was not account wide each toon had their own stuff and had a limited shared bank space.. Neverwinter has shared bank space true but it was much more than 60 slots and the guild bank was available even if you didnt have 10 people playing you could have four and you had the bank. Rift had a shared bank space and private bank space if I can recall correctly. I didn't play EQ2 or DAoC so don't know and stopped playing final fantasy games after FFX.. Every other MMO title I have played has had both private bank space with a shared bank space around 80 to 100 items and personal space of about 60 items.. or if no shared bank space you could mail yourself stuff so your other toons could pick it up. In large the only two crafting professions I see having a problem with space is if you do Provisioning or Alchemy the others are less of a problem as far as I can see.

Are you okay if ESO decides to do it differently than other MMOs?

greywind30nub18_ESO

Yes

I just want to emphasize importance of "comfort" in small things like bank and inventory. I dont need irritant in game. Challenge... sure but not annoying small tasks with inventory.
Totally agree with people talking about "overly frustrating design decisions"
Please consider better sort function and additional "folders" by craft , armor type and sets

BrassRazoo

No

Inventory is difficult if you don't upgrade it and want to do many professions at one.
I have left my bank and bag at the 11,500 gold mark for next upgrade as I just can't justify that expense for 10 slots when I only have like 25,ooo gold after 40+ levels.
I am to blame for the amount of crap I actually have.
I have a lot of things in my bank I am yet to use as I didn't really want to do weapon / armour crafting until I was a higher level.
Now I am like level 20 for each, due to deconstructions, and still have stacks of Iron Ingots and Jute in the bank that are probably worthless unless they are used on an alt.
I do think however that Trophies and Pets or Collectables should have a separate section or not be counted.

LastLaugh

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

Dbetz007 wrote: »

I personally agree with you on it not being the amount really I just don't care for it to be a complete cluster and generally do not like to travel with all of my crafting provisions and things on me. I especially agree on the crafting bank idea from GW2 that would solve all my issues completely. As for the other games Everquest was easy inventory as it was not account wide each toon had their own stuff and had a limited shared bank space.. Neverwinter has shared bank space true but it was much more than 60 slots and the guild bank was available even if you didnt have 10 people playing you could have four and you had the bank. Rift had a shared bank space and private bank space if I can recall correctly. I didn't play EQ2 or DAoC so don't know and stopped playing final fantasy games after FFX.. Every other MMO title I have played has had both private bank space with a shared bank space around 80 to 100 items and personal space of about 60 items.. or if no shared bank space you could mail yourself stuff so your other toons could pick it up. In large the only two crafting professions I see having a problem with space is if you do Provisioning or Alchemy the others are less of a problem as far as I can see.

Are you okay if ESO decides to do it differently than other MMOs?

Yes, if the differences do not substantially hamper my enjoyment of the game. Many of the things ESO has done differently have been an improvement on previous MMOs or at least have been interesting.

The inventory system unfortunately is neither. The only good change as far as I'm concerned is the ability to use crafting materials that are in the bank.

Brennan

Maybe

LastLaugh wrote: »

Yes, if the differences do not substantially hamper my enjoyment of the game. Many of the things ESO has done differently have been an improvement on previous MMOs or at least have been interesting.

The inventory system unfortunately is neither. The only good change as far as I'm concerned is the ability to use crafting materials that are in the bank.

But in this context I am asking specifically about the inventory.

dbetz007 wrote:

Every other MMO title I have played has had both private bank space with a shared bank space around 80 to 100 items and personal space of about 60 items.. or if no shared bank space you could mail yourself stuff so your other toons could pick it up.

Brennan wrote:

Are you okay if ESO decides to do it differently than other MMOs?

Is it safe to say then that you don't think it's okay that ESO is handling the inventory differently than other games?

Draaconis

No

Blackwidow wrote: »

Seems 41% of the people are unhappy. Not a good sign for subscriptions

No, it seems that 41% of the people who voted before this post are unhappy.

Brennan

Maybe

Draaconis wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Seems 41% of the people are unhappy. Not a good sign for subscriptions

No, it seems that 41% of the people who voted before this post are unhappy.

Actually, it doesn't say either of those things. It says that 41% believe people (2 or more) will quit the game because of the inventory.
'

Dyvim

Maybe

This poll is dubious at best, but it possibly shows one thing...this is a substantial issue for a non-trivial cohort of the playerbase, who think it is a factor in the games QoL for players.

IPhoenix

Yes

I might leave the game over the lack of bank space, but the problem is amplified by the bank slot bug so it's hard to say. In general I like to collect things and explore options so for me the inventory system is tedious. I like managing inventory but I don't like spending as much time on it as I do in this game. I may just change my play style but next on the list is roleplay and the game is not setup well for that. I'm finding the game to be too much about gold and not enough about adventure. I suppose in general, computer games substituent tedium for cleverness. In general I want mechanics to be in the background in a game like this and to be engaged in the game. Making me think in the world is cool but I would rather not have my attention focused on game mechanics. If inventory management feels like my character working it's cool. Maybe I can do it in my head. Over thinking it; I best go *Play* instead.

Sidney

Yes

I think a lot of impatient brats will cancel. Would I like more space? Yes. But that's my problem because I like to loot every single thing I come across. I'd loot the damn grass if it was lootable >_>

So yes, I do think some will cancel but I don't think it's an important issue that they should be looking at right now.

They have more important things on their plate and as others have stated, there is numerous was to increase our space. They probably want us more to work with what we have at the time and not stock pile so we can craft gear/food in the event of an apocalypse.

Dyvim

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

Dbetz007 wrote: »

Way more complicated than that .. each recipie requires different ingredients some need 3 or more same for alchemy .. obviously you haven't worked on them for more than 30 seconds.. Plus when your doing provisioning for other people too it becomes a problem quickly. Try it for a few weeks and you will see oh and try to cover many level ranges too so that you can provide for guildies of various levels soon you will understand.

Both my alchemy and provisioning are capped at 50. If you choose to craft "blue" food then you need 3 ingredients and the rest should just be burned via crafting, or sold, or put in a guild bank. At least, this is the strategy that I have adopted to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is your prerogative

If you choose to cook for your guildies, I can certainly appreciate your generosity since you not only are giving them the food for free (and I am not in anyway opposed to this) but also making sure they don't have to bottleneck their inventories because you've chosen to bottleneck yours instead. I have chosen not to adopt this strategy. I've adopted a strategy wherein if a guildie wants some food or drink made and wants me to use my Chef and Brewer traits to maximize the yield for their ingredients gathered, I am happy to do so. That is the strategy I have chosen to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is entirely up to you.

Any way you look at it, the challenges you're facing in managing your inventory are directly related to the choices you're making.

You are so full of it, again this isn't the game of life. The consequences you speak of are also a direct result of ARBITRARY LIMITATIONS this game places on players. ARBITRARY. You seem to leave that out of your overly simplistic choices/consequences equation, that you keep trumpeting and wearing like some ridiculous badge of honor because you keep saying "thank you sir, may I have another". These arbitrary limitations impact numerous playstyles...the person that likes a ton of alts has to feel the limitation more keenly since someone with ONE toon gets the same bankspace options as someone with 8. The crafter that likes to provide for his guild...the person that likes to have gatherer alts. The person who likes to spread crafting across several alts, and advances through zones with different alts at different times, exposing him to a wide range of the resources he will NEED at some point in the future, but must bypass, wasting time and opportunity.

Players don't like arbitrary limitations. Just like many players don't like bare bones interfaces...hence add ons are so popular. Not having a minimap is ridiculous to many players. You could just as easily go into some diatribe about how not maintaining proper spatial awareness is a choice and as a consequence you have to spend more time navigating...after all, having to pop up your map all the time or spend more time finding something is a way to introduce "friction" and could be a needed time sink according to some developer somewhere...lol...or you can download the frakin minimap add on, a QoL improvement and be done with it. Or you could follow your approach, "adapt" by coming up with some compensatory strategy for the games shortcomings, like break out paper and pencil and make your own maps or attend a land nav school some weekend, or buy a second computer and pay to run it with a game map up on the screen all the time, or whatever, and then brag about how you waste time compensating for the failure or shortcomings of a product that has arbitrarily placed them on your back. Bravo.

JUST LIKE REMOVING ARBITRARY limitations on inventory and providing a more robust inventory system is a QoL improvement that removes tedium and reduces the hassle of the "inventory shuffle" minigame that so few players want to have to deal with. So far they have punted on bringing their product up to standard with competing products. I predict that will not last. Players don't like to lose or go backwards with functionality and feel like they are having to make allowances and waste time because of an inferior product.

In other words, some people aren't will to eat a crap sandwich and ask for seconds, then brag about downing two of them like it makes them special. Some people like to recognize it for what it is, crap, generated from an arbitrary source, and ask to see a menu with something better, because they KNOW what better menu's look like and are used to eating in better places.

Now, I am not saying the whole game is crap, parts of it are brilliant. This is an MMO with many many components. But I am also not some fanboi, of any, ANY game, that isn't willing to point out areas where a game isn't cutting it, and point out other games that have approached the same problem (every MMO has to deal with loot, inventory space, etc.) and are doing it better. I also realize the game just launched, and MMOs typically skimp on QoL features early on in order to make a release date and deal with more pressing issues, like what inventory players do have VANISHING.

necronomniconb14_ESO

Maybe

DarkWombat wrote: »

And my poll question isn't based on if YOU will cancel. Read it again. DO you think OTHER players will cancel? So choose carefully because if you were honest and saw all the complaints this should be an 80% figure.

some people can assume that's kinda tricky. because the answer could turn out to be a yes in that case, because of course SOME people will quit over it even if most do not. just saying, lol.

Brennan

Maybe

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Dbetz007 wrote: »

Way more complicated than that .. each recipie requires different ingredients some need 3 or more same for alchemy .. obviously you haven't worked on them for more than 30 seconds.. Plus when your doing provisioning for other people too it becomes a problem quickly. Try it for a few weeks and you will see oh and try to cover many level ranges too so that you can provide for guildies of various levels soon you will understand.

Both my alchemy and provisioning are capped at 50. If you choose to craft "blue" food then you need 3 ingredients and the rest should just be burned via crafting, or sold, or put in a guild bank. At least, this is the strategy that I have adopted to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is your prerogative

If you choose to cook for your guildies, I can certainly appreciate your generosity since you not only are giving them the food for free (and I am not in anyway opposed to this) but also making sure they don't have to bottleneck their inventories because you've chosen to bottleneck yours instead. I have chosen not to adopt this strategy. I've adopted a strategy wherein if a guildie wants some food or drink made and wants me to use my Chef and Brewer traits to maximize the yield for their ingredients gathered, I am happy to do so. That is the strategy I have chosen to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is entirely up to you.

Any way you look at it, the challenges you're facing in managing your inventory are directly related to the choices you're making.

You are so full of it, again this isn't the game of life. The consequences you speak of are also a direct result of ARBITRARY LIMITATIONS this game places on players. ARBITRARY. You seem to leave that out of your overly simplistic choices/consequences equation, that you keep trumpeting and wearing like some ridiculous badge of honor because you keep saying "thank you sir, may I have another". These arbitrary limitations impact numerous playstyles...the person that likes a ton of alts has to feel the limitation more keenly since someone with ONE toon gets the same bankspace options as someone with 8. The crafter that likes to provide for his guild...the person that likes to have gatherer alts. The person who likes to spread crafting across several alts, and advances through zones with different alts at different times, exposing him to a wide range of the resources he will NEED at some point in the future, but must bypass, wasting time and opportunity.

Players don't like arbitrary limitations. Just like many players don't like bare bones interfaces...hence add ons are so popular. Not having a minimap is ridiculous to many players. You could just as easily go into some diatribe about how not maintaining proper spatial awareness is a choice and as a consequence you have to spend more time navigating...after all, having to pop up your map all the time or spend more time finding something is a way to introduce "friction" and could be a needed time sink according to some developer somewhere...lol...or you can download the frakin minimap add on, a QoL improvement and be done with it. Or you could follow your approach, "adapt" by coming up with some compensatory strategy for the games shortcomings, like break out paper and pencil and make your own maps or attend a land nav school some weekend, or buy a second computer and pay to run it with a game map up on the screen all the time, or whatever, and then brag about how you waste time compensating for the failure or shortcomings of a product that has arbitrarily placed them on your back. Bravo.

JUST LIKE REMOVING ARBITRARY limitations on inventory and providing a more robust inventory system is a QoL improvement that removes tedium and reduces the hassle of the "inventory shuffle" minigame that so few players want to have to deal with. So far they have punted on bringing their product up to standard with competing products. I predict that will not last. Players don't like to lose or go backwards with functionality and feel like they are having to make allowances and waste time because of an inferior product.

In other words, some people aren't will to eat a crap sandwich and ask for seconds, then brag about downing two of them like it makes them special. Some people like to recognize it for what it is, crap, generated from an arbitrary source, and ask to see a menu with something better, because they KNOW what better menu's look like and are used to eating in better places.

Now, I am not saying the whole game is crap, parts of it are brilliant. This is an MMO with many many components. But I am also not some fanboi, of any, ANY game, that isn't willing to point out areas where a game isn't cutting it, and point out other games that have approached the same problem (every MMO has to deal with loot, inventory space, etc.) and are doing it better. I also realize the game just launched, and MMOs typically skimp on QoL features early on in order to make a release date and deal with more pressing issues, like what inventory players do have VANISHING.

Dyvim, a Ford is not a Chevrolet. And ESO is not GW2. I feel sorry for you man. In spite of all the advice and tools and options that have been offered in this thread, the thread you started, and every other thread about this issue, your issue is so cataclysmically monumental that the only thing that can possibly help is divine intervention from ZOS.

You insult all who disagree with you and demand that the game adapt to you. You call this game a crap sandwich, berate those of us who have found a way to manage the inventory, and refuse to take responsibility for your own choices. You're a child and I feel bad for you.

ED: I just going to leave this right here for you along with a link to it source.

Interview with Paul Sage, Creative Director of ESO wrote:

Q: Since crafting materials take up space in our inventory…Would it be possible to implement crafting bags for strictly crafting materials?

A: Our inventory space and bank space provides a much needed gold sink. Something useful to spend your money on. Currently, that friction is useful to the game, and removing that isn’t something I think we want to pursue at this time.

Q: Items for crafting take a lot of place. Will you implement an interface dedicated to crafting items like GW2 or Neverwinter ?

A: Bank space and inventory space are friction elements for the economy. It is unlikely we will have a dedicate crafting inventory in the near future. Choice is important.

Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I’m crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don’t. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn’t impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There’s also a TV show about your “problem.”

Source

Dyvim

Maybe

Dyvim wrote: »

...

Now, I am not saying the whole game is crap, parts of it are brilliant. This is an MMO with many many components. But I am also not some fanboi, of any, ANY game, that isn't willing to point out areas where a game isn't cutting it, and point out other games that have approached the same problem (every MMO has to deal with loot, inventory space, etc.) and are doing it better. I also realize the game just launched, and MMOs typically skimp on QoL features early on in order to make a release date and deal with more pressing issues, like what inventory players do have VANISHING.

Brennan, apparently you cant read, so let me put this back in here for you above.

No, a ford isn't a chevy, but they both have trunks (storage) and when one of them has an auto trunk release on the key fob, and an auto trunk close, and other features, like fold down back seats that make your storage area more flexible, you can APPRECIATE those QoL features, and then wonder, when you buy that chevy, that is 2 years NEWER, and costs MORE as it is at the TOP EXPENSE cost of the class, with a purchase fee and monthly subscription, as to why that chevy has NONE of those ease of use features. GOT IT YET? Probably not.

As I said earlier, you are the one to be pitied, your arguments are so feeble and your reasoning so frail that it is saddening to have to point it out to you....

Brennan

Maybe

Dyvim wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

...

Now, I am not saying the whole game is crap, parts of it are brilliant. This is an MMO with many many components. But I am also not some fanboi, of any, ANY game, that isn't willing to point out areas where a game isn't cutting it, and point out other games that have approached the same problem (every MMO has to deal with loot, inventory space, etc.) and are doing it better. I also realize the game just launched, and MMOs typically skimp on QoL features early on in order to make a release date and deal with more pressing issues, like what inventory players do have VANISHING.

Brennan, apparently you cant read, so let me put this back in here for you above.

No, a ford isn't a chevy, but they both have trunks (storage) and when one of them has an auto trunk release on the key fob, and an auto trunk close, and other features, like fold down back seats that make your storage area more flexible, you can APPRECIATE those QoL features, and then wonder, when you buy that chevy, that is 2 years NEWER, and costs MORE as it is at the TOP EXPENSE cost of the class, with a purchase fee and monthly subscription, as to why that chevy has NONE of those ease of use features. GOT IT YET? Probably not.

As I said earlier, you are the one to be pitied, your arguments are so feeble and your reasoning so frail that it is saddening to have to point it out to you....

Read the whole post Dyvim. The interview with Paul Sage was published on 7-Mar-2014. Almost a full month before launch and you still purchased this game. Why did you spend $60-80 for a "crap sandwich"? Was it so you could come to the forum and berate Paul Sage for their decision to limit the inventory?

I think I am starting to see what you're saying. You're asserting that because you actually have to pay for the game and a monthly fee you should not have to be forced into dealing with this issue. Correct me if I am mistaken.

Dyvim should not have to be forced into dealing with this issue.

Any statement that includes the words "should not have to" or "should be able to" is arguably a statement of entitlement.

Here's the thing kid. No one is forcing you. You chose to buy a "crap sandwich" just so you could complain about it being a "crap sandwich". Well done.

It's sad really to blow $60-80 on something you don't like, especially in this economy. I guess I should feel bad for your mom and dad who had to work for the money to buy this game for you - this game that you don't like.

Blackhorne

Yes

Dyvim wrote: »

The consequences you speak of are also a direct result of ARBITRARY LIMITATIONS this game places on players.
ARBITRARY.

Guess what? So is the number of hit points you have at level 1. TOTALLY ARBITRARY.

EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER GAME IN EXISTENCE IS TOTALLY ARBITRARY.

Baraz

No

Dear ESO concept team : I fail to see the reasoning and fun value of limited space. I know other games to it, and it's annoying there too. As I see no gain or fun value of managing inventory due to limited space, maybe you should just change that concept all together. Of course, you can put an extreme limit nonetheless to avoid mostly the excess only a farmer or excessive hoarder could reach. In more concrete terms, give us plenty of space in our Bank, though you can limit backpack space.

Nb: I still voted No on the poll here though.

Dyvim

Maybe

Blackhorne wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

The consequences you speak of are also a direct result of ARBITRARY LIMITATIONS this game places on players.
ARBITRARY.

Guess what? So is the number of hit points you have at level 1. TOTALLY ARBITRARY.

EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER GAME IN EXISTENCE IS TOTALLY ARBITRARY.

Interesting assertion. Perhaps. I would say starting at level 1 is not arbitrary. At least not in a game that has levels. I would say having bosses that are more difficult than standard mobs is not arbitrary...I could come up with countless other examples where things are a certain way based on a certain logic...which means a lack of arbitrariness. How is that? Or how about I phrase it this way...some things in a game are more arbitrary than others....lol.

Also, a thing like hit points belongs to a system, or multiple systems in a game, say character advancement, or combat - that are fundamentally different in nature than a QoL system like logistics or inventory. What I am trying to say is that some systems have a larger QoL aspect to them than others.

Dyvim

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

...

Now, I am not saying the whole game is crap, parts of it are brilliant. This is an MMO with many many components. But I am also not some fanboi, of any, ANY game, that isn't willing to point out areas where a game isn't cutting it, and point out other games that have approached the same problem (every MMO has to deal with loot, inventory space, etc.) and are doing it better. I also realize the game just launched, and MMOs typically skimp on QoL features early on in order to make a release date and deal with more pressing issues, like what inventory players do have VANISHING.

Brennan, apparently you cant read, so let me put this back in here for you above.

No, a ford isn't a chevy, but they both have trunks (storage) and when one of them has an auto trunk release on the key fob, and an auto trunk close, and other features, like fold down back seats that make your storage area more flexible, you can APPRECIATE those QoL features, and then wonder, when you buy that chevy, that is 2 years NEWER, and costs MORE as it is at the TOP EXPENSE cost of the class, with a purchase fee and monthly subscription, as to why that chevy has NONE of those ease of use features. GOT IT YET? Probably not.

As I said earlier, you are the one to be pitied, your arguments are so feeble and your reasoning so frail that it is saddening to have to point it out to you....

Read the whole post Dyvim. The interview with Paul Sage was published on 7-Mar-2014. Almost a full month before launch and you still purchased this game. Why did you spend $60-80 for a "crap sandwich"? Was it so you could come to the forum and berate Paul Sage for their decision to limit the inventory?

I think I am starting to see what you're saying. You're asserting that because you actually have to pay for the game and a monthly fee you should not have to be forced into dealing with this issue. Correct me if I am mistaken.

Dyvim should not have to be forced into dealing with this issue.

Any statement that includes the words "should not have to" or "should be able to" is arguably a statement of entitlement.

Here's the thing kid. No one is forcing you. You chose to buy a "crap sandwich" just so you could complain about it being a "crap sandwich". Well done.

It's sad really to blow $60-80 on something you don't like, especially in this economy. I guess I should feel bad for your mom and dad who had to work for the money to buy this game for you - this game that you don't like.

I read the whole post. You didn't read mine. No where did I describe the entire game as a crap sandwich. I have said the game is overall good, and parts of it are brilliant...parts of it are missing or substandard, however, like the inventory. I am not willing to be dishonest and pretend the game doesn't have issues. BTW, I mention the FACT that this game is at the high end of pricing models in the industry to highlight the FACT that a F2P game like GW2, when F2P games typically use inventory constraints to milk money out of players in their cash shops, has a better, more robust inventory system, with less hassle involved with it, than this subscription game.

Also, you are completely ignoring all the other posters that have a problem with the current system. Or simply look at the poll results, for what they are worth. Its an issue for ALOT of players. Not just me, not just for my reasons or by my examples, which happen to be more compelling than anything you have come out with...want to try a reboot on that car analogy of yours after I have shredded it? Feeble.

Evolpeac_ESO

No

DarkWombat wrote: »

Oh I see it the other way around. Losing those "silent" subscribers is where it hurts the most. I am sure there are plenty of players who aren't on these forums who have thought that the lack of inventory space as an issue. Common sense has to tell us this. It is a very obvious issue. ESPECIALLY for Elder Scrolls fans who are used to hoarding a lot. I mean, to limit inventory in an MMO game is bad enough but an ELDER SCROLLS game? Where there are boxes, chests, drawers everywhere to loot? Bad idea.

I believe its the fact that this is an MMO that forces you to make decisions. You can't hoard everything like so many other games. With this game so many decisions actually mean something. Even if its as simple as "do i pick up this weapon or keep the herbs to level alchemy up?" It makes you decide to delay one for the other than be able to do everything at once or mix and match and do everything a bit slower. It's a good thing they break the mold from others. Its good the limit inventory in an MMO and I'd venture to say especially because it's an elder scrolls game. They have always primarily been about the decisions you make. This is one way to retain that.

Dyvim

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

Dyvim wrote: »

Brennan wrote: »

Dbetz007 wrote: »

Way more complicated than that .. each recipie requires different ingredients some need 3 or more same for alchemy .. obviously you haven't worked on them for more than 30 seconds.. Plus when your doing provisioning for other people too it becomes a problem quickly. Try it for a few weeks and you will see oh and try to cover many level ranges too so that you can provide for guildies of various levels soon you will understand.

Both my alchemy and provisioning are capped at 50. If you choose to craft "blue" food then you need 3 ingredients and the rest should just be burned via crafting, or sold, or put in a guild bank. At least, this is the strategy that I have adopted to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is your prerogative

If you choose to cook for your guildies, I can certainly appreciate your generosity since you not only are giving them the food for free (and I am not in anyway opposed to this) but also making sure they don't have to bottleneck their inventories because you've chosen to bottleneck yours instead. I have chosen not to adopt this strategy. I've adopted a strategy wherein if a guildie wants some food or drink made and wants me to use my Chef and Brewer traits to maximize the yield for their ingredients gathered, I am happy to do so. That is the strategy I have chosen to mitigate the consequences of my choices. What you choose to do is entirely up to you.

Any way you look at it, the challenges you're facing in managing your inventory are directly related to the choices you're making.

You are so full of it, again this isn't the game of life. The consequences you speak of are also a direct result of ARBITRARY LIMITATIONS this game places on players. ARBITRARY. You seem to leave that out of your overly simplistic choices/consequences equation, that you keep trumpeting and wearing like some ridiculous badge of honor because you keep saying "thank you sir, may I have another". These arbitrary limitations impact numerous playstyles...the person that likes a ton of alts has to feel the limitation more keenly since someone with ONE toon gets the same bankspace options as someone with 8. The crafter that likes to provide for his guild...the person that likes to have gatherer alts. The person who likes to spread crafting across several alts, and advances through zones with different alts at different times, exposing him to a wide range of the resources he will NEED at some point in the future, but must bypass, wasting time and opportunity.

Players don't like arbitrary limitations. Just like many players don't like bare bones interfaces...hence add ons are so popular. Not having a minimap is ridiculous to many players. You could just as easily go into some diatribe about how not maintaining proper spatial awareness is a choice and as a consequence you have to spend more time navigating...after all, having to pop up your map all the time or spend more time finding something is a way to introduce "friction" and could be a needed time sink according to some developer somewhere...lol...or you can download the frakin minimap add on, a QoL improvement and be done with it. Or you could follow your approach, "adapt" by coming up with some compensatory strategy for the games shortcomings, like break out paper and pencil and make your own maps or attend a land nav school some weekend, or buy a second computer and pay to run it with a game map up on the screen all the time, or whatever, and then brag about how you waste time compensating for the failure or shortcomings of a product that has arbitrarily placed them on your back. Bravo.

JUST LIKE REMOVING ARBITRARY limitations on inventory and providing a more robust inventory system is a QoL improvement that removes tedium and reduces the hassle of the "inventory shuffle" minigame that so few players want to have to deal with. So far they have punted on bringing their product up to standard with competing products. I predict that will not last. Players don't like to lose or go backwards with functionality and feel like they are having to make allowances and waste time because of an inferior product.

In other words, some people aren't will to eat a crap sandwich and ask for seconds, then brag about downing two of them like it makes them special. Some people like to recognize it for what it is, crap, generated from an arbitrary source, and ask to see a menu with something better, because they KNOW what better menu's look like and are used to eating in better places.

Now, I am not saying the whole game is crap, parts of it are brilliant. This is an MMO with many many components. But I am also not some fanboi, of any, ANY game, that isn't willing to point out areas where a game isn't cutting it, and point out other games that have approached the same problem (every MMO has to deal with loot, inventory space, etc.) and are doing it better. I also realize the game just launched, and MMOs typically skimp on QoL features early on in order to make a release date and deal with more pressing issues, like what inventory players do have VANISHING.

Dyvim, a Ford is not a Chevrolet. And ESO is not GW2. I feel sorry for you man. In spite of all the advice and tools and options that have been offered in this thread, the thread you started, and every other thread about this issue, your issue is so cataclysmically monumental that the only thing that can possibly help is divine intervention from ZOS.

You insult all who disagree with you and demand that the game adapt to you. You call this game a crap sandwich, berate those of us who have found a way to manage the inventory, and refuse to take responsibility for your own choices. You're a child and I feel bad for you.

ED: I just going to leave this right here for you along with a link to it source.

Interview with Paul Sage, Creative Director of ESO wrote:

Q: Since crafting materials take up space in our inventory…Would it be possible to implement crafting bags for strictly crafting materials?

A: Our inventory space and bank space provides a much needed gold sink. Something useful to spend your money on. Currently, that friction is useful to the game, and removing that isn’t something I think we want to pursue at this time.

Q: Items for crafting take a lot of place. Will you implement an interface dedicated to crafting items like GW2 or Neverwinter ?

A: Bank space and inventory space are friction elements for the economy. It is unlikely we will have a dedicate crafting inventory in the near future. Choice is important.

Q: I love the fact that you can leave items in your bank and still use them for crafting. My concern is, I guess I horde to much of everything since I’m crafting everything, and run out of space really really quick. Is there away to fix this, or should i simple just keep selling my mats and make low level items to makes space?

A: I would say you are going to have to make some choices about what you keep and what you don’t. Bank space / inventory space is another limiter to being able to work on all crafting skills at once. It isn’t impossible, it is just harder if that is what you choose to do. There’s also a TV show about your “problem.”

Source

Another little aside about MMOs, their nature, how they change, and how developer statements and rationale's are often not worth the time to read them. Perhaps you have heard of an MMO called SW: The Old Republic (TOR). Prior to launch, the LEAD DESIGNER for that game at the time, Damion Schubert, wrote a blog detailing the design philosophy of the game. He stated, unequivocally, that the game would be a mix of theme park and sandbox, with a special emphasis on community building tools and features.

He went into a detailed explanation about how delivering a pure themepark MMO would be a gigantic waste of the IP. The blog was a joy to read, and made me think that finally we had a development studio than finally understood the nature of themeparks, their limitations, and the nature of sandboxes and their limitations...and how taking elements from both while emphasizing community in an MMO would lead to one of the better experiences players had ever seen.

What did they do? They turned around and released one of the most basic, purest themeparks the industry had ever seen with the bare minimum of community features.

So yeah...MMOs...developers...history has shown that holding onto or holding up their statements as some enlightened, unchanging gospel is both naive and foolish.

lichmeister

Yes

i already have cancelled. i am not making a big deal out of it since i will likely come back at some point, regardless. and there's still the outside chance that ZO will get their *** together and address this (if not in a clear 'fix' then an acknowledgement that they *** up and will be implementing solutions soon-ish) before my subscription runs down.
i mentioned this on almost every beta survey: crafting would be useless if they didn't give us the tools to both craft AND adventure.

crafting was the exact same way in oblivion/skyrim. if it wasn't for the fact that i could safely store all the crap i looted in any old box or storage container, i never would have bothered.

for me, crafting has always been one of my favorite parts of the MMO universe. it strongly informs the decisions i make about which games i play. If it ever gets nerfed entirely from the genre i'll be just as content going back to M:tG and pen and paper rpgs.

ps: i cant believe how many badges that brown-nosed troll has!

pps: just to be clear: my issue isn't with the personal storage (which i feel is adequate) but with shared storage. i don't even think doubling the default shared vault would be enough, although an alternative would be another account based storage space just for crafting supplies.

lichmeister

Yes

Brennan wrote: »

Imryll wrote: »

LadyInTheWater wrote: »

If there are enough "Maybe" and "Yes" votes, people would (mistakenly) use that as "evidence" that the community needs more bank space, and that's just not true. The bank/bag space is fine (I haven't even upgraded my bags/bank yet), and the people who leave are people who are more interested in their items than their community. I honestly won't mind seeing them go.

Right. Something isn't important to me so folks don't need it. Guess that means we don't need Adventure Zones, because Imryll isn't particularly interested in them. Or maybe, just maybe the game needs to include content that serves different types of players.

Inventory space is not content. No one will ever make everyone happy. People will have to choose whether this is something they can deal with and stay on board or decide that it just isn't worth their $15.00/mo and go somewhere else that meets their inventory space needs.

People want to be able to choose to hold on to every thing they pick up. What they're upset about is the consequences of that choice.

randomly stringing cliches together does not create a cogent (or otherwise) point. nothing you said is either true or relevant to the subject.
~inventory space (and anything you fill it with) is part of the content of the game.
~no one will make everyone happy. yeah? and? so what? how is this basic fact (that is immediately and intuitively obvious to everyone) relevant to the subject?
~lol @ "go somewhere else that meets their inventory space needs." just lol i think the point sailed so far over your head its in danger of going into orbit!
~no one wants to 'hold on' to every thing they pick up. some of us just don't want to vendor stuff that we know FOR A FACT we are gonna have to go farm later when we do need it. i store crafting materials so when i need it, i HAVE it and don't need to suddenly spend an afternoon farming.

go wash your face: their something brown on your nose!