Do you Believe Lack of Inventory Space May Cause Some Cancellations?

SadisticSavior

No

I think a lot of people are annoyed with it, but no, I don't think anyone is quitting over it.

I agree with the DEV's decision...there needs to be an incentive to specialize. We can't have crafters hoarding everything they come across.

SadisticSavior

No

Blackwidow wrote: »

Seems 41% of the people are unhappy. Not a good sign for subscriptions

The poll does not say 41% are unhappy with the game. The poll only says 41% don't agree with the direction the DEVs went on one specific item.

Actually, it does not even say that...it only asks people to speculate on whether or not players are quitting over this.

Eris

Maybe

Additionally, the poll is kind of rigged anyways. It says do you think that people will quit, not are you planning to quit. The numbers would probably be different if it was worded differently.

Blackhorne

Yes

DarkWombat wrote: »

Lets face it; this is the bottom line. If people unsub for something like this and Zenimax loses money, it will be fixed.

1. Assumes that it is "broken".
2. Assumes that enough people will unsub for Zenimax to lose money.

What Zenimax has failed to understand is that we all get that they placed a soft cap on professions by limiting inventory space. I get this for EACH character. But it makes no sense for shared storage. Shared storage should have hundreds of empty slots.

I don't think Zenimax has failed to understand that at all. I think it's their intent.

There are ways around these "soft caps", which have been explained enough in other posts that I won't bother going into them here, but some people don't like to adapt their play style.

What has been consistent in every Elder Scrolls game I've played (starting with Arena, if you must know) is that the game world doesn't bend itself to your will. If there weren't real choices to be made, and careful planning needed in every aspect of the game, it wouldn't be an Elder Scrolls game.

Paul Sage was very clear that ZOS wanted an Elder Scrolls game which was Massively Multiplayer, not a "genre" MMO. It's been discussed in pretty much every interview he's done, and his position hasn't changed.

I am quite sure that inventory constraints will cause some unsubs, because there has been enough qq'ing on this topic that if there were no unsubs, then at least 10% of the player base would be nothing more than whining hypocrites.

I prefer to believe that people are not whining hypocrites, so I expect to see some unsubs.

I prefer games which require me to think and prioritize, so I hope the unsubs will be few enough that ZOS makes no changes to the inventory system.

Because I really hope they don't "fix" this particular aspect of the game, when it's simply not broken, just designed to provide a challenge which some players apparently aren't up to.

I'd much prefer they focus on fixing things which actually are broken, like the remaining questing bugs, deterrence for gold spammers, etc.

LastLaugh

Maybe

DarkWombat wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

DarkWombat wrote: »

Trying to manipulate the poll results so that they produce the answer you want to hear does not do any favors for your cause. And that's coming from someone who agrees with you that this is an issue that the developers should change.

No manipulation going on here. It is simple. Do you think people will unsub because of the bag space issues. Thats it. Dont make it out to be more than what it is. My response that you responded to was based off of me replying to a question someone had.

Nonsense. You're trying to skew the poll in your preferred direction by asking an inherently biased question, then attempting to tell people who qualify their response to it that they must stick to answering it in the format you have prescribed.

Not only is this completely futile on a public forum, where people will and should respond as they see fit, it also damages your credibility. Anyone who disagrees with you will instantly dismiss the results because the poll was so obviously biased. You will also lose the goodwill of a lot of people who agree with you or are undecided.

This is counterproductive because there is probably majority support for increased bag space anyway. If players were polled in a more credible way, the results would be a lot more convincing.

Follow me here.
Don't load up your next response, just practice a little reflective listening..

If you ask someone a direct question like do you think the public thinks Kobe Bryant is a good player and you reply no, and give reasons why you say no, I would call that is invalid simply because I didn't ask if "you" thought he was a good player. I asked if you think the public thinks he is a good player. Yes, they have to stick to my format because I am the one who asked the question! The person responding cant change the format to suit their needs.

Wrong. This is a public forum, not a court of law with you as the judge. Just because you asked the question, does not mean you can control the "format" in which other people respond. That is self-evident from the responses here. If you want to stop people from responding in a certain way, you'll have to start your own forum where you have admin privileges.

Now, if you say the poll was biased because I posted MY FEELINGS about bag space followed by a poll, then thats a much better argument.

No it's not, because that's not what I'm objecting to and that's not what happened.

If you had created a poll with a more objectively phrased question ("Are you considering quitting the game because of inventory space?") then added your own subjective response ("I definitely am! The inventory situation sucks!") I would not have had a problem with that.

What I do have a problem with is you asking people to speculate about what "some" others might do, then attempting to tell them how they can answer your question to skew the results in your favor.

I have already explained in previous posts, with as much clarity as possible, why your question is biased. If you do not understand my point by now you are either incapable of critical thinking or (more likely) willfully ignorant. Fortunately, the majority of the posters on this thread are not, which brings me to...

Also, very few, mainly you, have called my poll biased.

LOL. Are we reading the same thread here?

So in a stroke of irony, even if you support bigger bags, YOU, YOURSELF have brought more attention, saying my poll is biased, and YOU YOURSELF may be the very reason why I lose creditability. If you had left everything alone, I doubt anyone thought I was less credible.

I don't think people on this forum are anywhere near as stupid as you think they are. The developers, who make the ultimate decision on whether changes should be made to the game, are almost certainly not.

I'm going to propose a radical idea, so bear with me. Instead of criticizing people for calling attention to the obvious bias in your poll, why not avoid creating a biased poll to begin with?

LastLaugh

Maybe

Brennan wrote: »

LastLaugh wrote: »

or orcs give them nightmares.

Hold on... still laughing...

Why haven't we seen this poll yet?

Do you think people will quit because Orcs give them nightmares?

And before you answer, the question is not whether YOU will quit. It's whether you think other people will quit.

Out of the millions of people who will play ESO over the years it will be in existence? Yes, I think the odds are very good that at least two carebears will quit because orcs are just too scary.

Do you agree with me? If so then quick! Let me create a poll. By the logic of some on this thread, we'll have a 100% consensus that orcs need to be replaced with a family-friendly alternative.

derpmonster

Yes

Santiago wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

Are you kidding? There is so much potential space its not even funny. People need to manage there junk better not add more slots, when you have bag improvements, bank improvements, horses out the ass, you have plenty.

Never ceases to amaze me how people feel the need to brown nose the developers and at the same time show their complete ignorance of how things really work.

As for the OP, great poll. Inventory slots are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to issues that will seriously harm long term playability and general enjoyment of the game. I don't know of one person that hates the inventory system in the game.

Add to that the armor degrading system, lack of a decent UI for the marketplace, guild management, no quest history, very very poor rate of return on deconstructing epic items (1 purple refine out of 10 items is effing absurd) and all the rest....

I think that Zenimax/Bethesda thinks this is Skyrimm and that player expectations should be the same. Well it's not, it's an MMO, and players are not going to settle for these overly frustrating design decisions. It's these things that take a potentially great game and turn it into a game where players go from "awesome" to "this sucks" very quickly.

It's the little things and Zenimax needs to take a serious look at how the little things are causing lot's of player frustration early on in the life of the game. Personally I love the game but I want to see these things addressed so that I can continue to enjoy it and not give up in frustration one day.

This post sums it up perfectly how I feel about it. The game is great but there are so many small issues that are going to add up over time.

blauschwinge

Maybe

It is not a reason to unsub, its just different (though I really dont enjoy the inventory tetris and micro management I am forced to do every day (and I have already filled my seven additional character slots with inventory mules that carry different items. I think the extreme lack of Shared Storage Inventory space is a big mistake. Its certainly not an enjoyable experience.

Character Inventory though is fine like it is, I am quite sure I can do extensive dungeon delving once I have 110 Slots plus my trustworthy level 50 gaited horse with me.

But then again, with the bank issues of vanishing gold and items and resetting I currently would not feel save placing my valuables in there even if they would expand it greatly to store all your cooking and crafting mats in the bank.

It also does'nt seem like they have the technical framework to fix a vanished inventory, or at least they dont have the manpower yet for these kind of personal issues and I would really really hate loosing my game process to one of these terrible rampant bugs.

On a side note: especially cooking mats are taking quite a lot of space, but you actually have to store those onions, tomatoes, potatoes etc you find from the very beginning, because if you trash them, just because they are so rare that you will only ever find a few per several hours of farming and you are constantly thinking is it worth keeping for the sake of occupied space, you will dearly miss storing them when you get the amazing buff food recipes later which all require mats like these.

sociald100ub17_ESO

Im ok with how it is IF the bank thing was working as it should. If they fix that then I'm content. I still think it could be improved of course but add-ons may accomplish that ( viewing inventory in a grid format as an option for instance would be cool ). However, if they still have not fixed the bank issue by the end of the month when peoples free month is up. well then yes I think some will move on out of frustration.

zhevon

Maybe

Its a time management thing - I am spending a significant hunk of time shuffling stuff between toons and I am probably not the only person doing this. I only keep provisioning items that I am likely to use (generally the best heath one) and I try to keep crafting items in the bank for use, At a certain point I will probably get annoyed and stop my subscription.

Laerian

Yes

The answer is obvious. I have no doubts that from all those hundred of thousands of players at least some will cancel because the relation between inventory space-crafting- item diversity IS broken.

The question is how many?; it will be significant?. Probably not because this only reason.

Then we should ask again how many people you think will quit because the lack of inventory and repair costs; then we should add the lack of an Auction House; then respecting costs; then bugs; <add your own complain>.

And the ZOS stubbornness about certain things -Mr. Sage's words are the best example that they listen what they want to listen- and how this attitude affects the community mood in the short term.

Zephyr

No

I have 150 inventory space and 100 bank space... How is that too little? Please enlighten me.

Twicebit

No

I would love some more bag space, but am I going to quit over it? No! It's ok to vendor some of that gear, or sell it at the guild store. That's a good way to save up some gold , so you can buy more bag space. My main is 41 and has 105 bag slots, it is working fine for me.

Blackwidow

Yes

SadisticSavior wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Seems 41% of the people are unhappy. Not a good sign for subscriptions

The poll does not say 41% are unhappy with the game. The poll only says 41% don't agree with the direction the DEVs went on one specific item.

Actually, it does not even say that...it only asks people to speculate on whether or not players are quitting over this.

People quitting = people unhappy.

Blackwidow

Yes

SadisticSavior wrote: »

I think a lot of people are annoyed with it, but no, I don't think anyone is quitting over it.

I agree with the DEV's decision...there needs to be an incentive to specialize. We can't have crafters hoarding everything they come across.

The inventory system is the only reason I am thinking of quitting.

I spend more time banking they playing the game.

The banking system is not a challenge, it is tedious.

ZOS said they made the game so each player can play his or her character as she wants. So, to claim there is a soft cap of crafting is just B.S.

Winke

Maybe

I can see why some would quit over it but I believe it is just another challenge for the player to overcome.

reignfyre

No

Kinda shocked at the results. I can't believe people would cancel the sub based on this single issue alone. I agree inventory management is pretty frustrating, but there are way bigger issues in the game that will cause me to cancel first (I won't derail this thread with details).

Adicon

Do I like the banking no, I have to spend a good 1/2 hour every 2 hours of game play off loading my inventory into my bank and then log into each of my storage alts to collect their items I've allotted them to hold. Sure I don't have to loot everything but that's how I've rolled in every Elderscrolls game, but in those games you could find a chest to store everything.

Do I think people will cancel subs from it, probably not even if it is a pain in the ass as it is, possible solutions? Have an independant crafting storage bank would be my best solution I could give, I could then store all of my favourite weapons/armor/trophies/pets in my main bank vs. thinking about deleting theses things. Such a shame really...

Tetujin

No

Adicon wrote: »

Do I like the banking no, I have to spend a good 1/2 hour every 2 hours of game play off loading my inventory into my bank and then log into each of my storage alts to collect their items I've allotted them to hold. Sure I don't have to loot everything but that's how I've rolled in every Elderscrolls game, but in those games you could find a chest to store everything.

Do I think people will cancel subs from it, probably not even if it is a pain in the ass as it is, possible solutions? Have an independant crafting storage bank would be my best solution I could give, I could then store all of my favourite weapons/armor/trophies/pets in my main bank vs. thinking about deleting theses things. Such a shame really...

Yikes. You don't think it would be better to just keep less and do fewer crafting things? Not sure I could do that, but maybe they payoff will be worth it at some point. Here's another question, what if it was not possible to pass anything to alts, like if banks were per character and there was no good way to do it otherwise. No "pressure release valve" through alts. Would you still play and do fewer crafts, or would that be a deal-breaker because you are set on them?

And then the other thing I wonder, what if they restricted it to two out of crafts and gathering? I don't often see people having as hard a time with that system, maybe that would have been a smarter way to have done it.

Or would it really be all that bad if we could do all of the crafts if we are willing to spend the time and skill points, get rid of this extra cap?

Chomppa

No

The only way I'll cancel my sub to this game is if they don't fix the bugs and the bots . Inventory in this game doesn't really bother me since I tend sell majority of my mats .

Catches_the_Sun

No

Blackwidow wrote: »

Seems 41% of the people are unhappy. Not a good sign for subscriptions

And that is why this is a terrible poll. He doesn't ask if players are happy or not. He doesn't ask players to vote whether or not they are going to cancel, but whether they feel that SOME people will. I am thrilled with the game myself, but based on the comments from players wanting a clone of GW2 or WoW, some of them may not be able to adjust.

I don't think for one minute that this poll or even the forums are representative of the player base as a whole. My Guild has almost 50 members, all active. I have yet to hear anybody talk as negatively about inventory space as what you'll read on these boards, and certainly not considering cancelling over it.

I just hope Zenimax sticks to their vision here.

GreasedLizard

Yes

My bank space reverted to 60, and no I'm not buying it again until this bug is fixed. So what do we do? Spend 30 minutes a day shuffling crap to alts.

If they have database issues, just think of the impact of every single account having 8 characters, when there may be no other need for 8.

The impact is huge to maintaining a database that is artificially inflated like that. so it's a lose-lose scenario..

Eris

Maybe

GreasedLizard wrote: »

My bank space reverted to 60, and no I'm not buying it again until this bug is fixed. So what do we do? Spend 30 minutes a day shuffling crap to alts

Good news, the fix is going in tomorrow. Hopefully it works.

Anzaman

Yes

In the current state leveling multiple professions at the same time is quite horrid.

Currently I'm only leveling-up my Enchanting and Clothing. All those runestones, trait items and green/blue upgrade items has filled up my bank so badly that I was forced to create bank character and in my opinion it's bad design if I need bank character or two just to be able to level-up professions.

I'm not hoarding, just banking those usable items which I can use at maximum level as well. So I don't have like potency level 1 runes anymore, heh.

Elirienne

No

Nobody will cancel this game purely becaue their inventory space is smaller than they'd like. Don't be ridiculous. People who say they will are lying, or do not enjoy playing the game that much in the first place.

Other than monetary reasons, the one and only reason people cancel - the ONE AND ONLY - is when they feel the game cannot give them any more entertainment. Ie, they get bored or burnt out. This is true for every subscription game ever.

Nox_Aeterna

Yes

OP , this will not be something that will ever *** me enough for to me to quit over , i do think it is a bit silly , but i respect that others value different things.

Now , i can assure you 100% , this will cause some cancellations , i can also assure you that pretty much every single other aspect of this game , will also cause some cancellations.

Some people will get grips with some stuff OP, dont matter how small it seems to others , does that mean a significant number of player would quit over something like this? I cant be sure , but i would say no.

Dreepa

No

There is a huge difference between complaining/hating a feature, and quitting the game.

This is a pretty good case of bitching about a bad feature, but nevertheless knowing that people will endure the suffering because they like the rest of the game.
It is rather obvious that we try to steer the topic up to an escalation-level where the conclusion is: This problem is hitting the profit, so ZeniMax panics and changes it. I like the thinking: Attack where it hurts them: The $$$.... Every company wants to keep their capital (players). Thats also the goal of this poll.

However, they are not supid. And they know exactly that you guys will endure the pain, and keep on playing. And just PRETEND to be leaving the game to make them afraid. Well, I doubt it will work.
The inv problem is not breaking the game, and it will not make people quit the game, and zeni knows it. And you know it. Nice try though.

They probably will sell more inventory when it goes F2P.

grahamz1b14_ESO

Yes

Brennan wrote: »

grahamz1b14_ESO wrote: »

Graham, can you elaborate for me about how the game rewards packrats?

Sure can.
In short, there's lots of stuff that we get, that is not immediately useful, but if you hold on to it, it's there waiting for you when you finally can use it. But that means that until then, the stuff just accumulates. Here's some examples:
1. Research is slow, so if you hold on to otherwise even useless items until you can finally get to it, you don't have to hit up the guild stores for your next research item. So, you end up holding on to even low level armor and weapons for days, and it just keeps adding up.
2. When you hit the second tier zones (levels 16-25), suddenly you are not just collecting items that you can use for crafting on your current tier, but also collecting future tier stuff. It's rewarding to hold onto all of that crap because (As with all of these examples) you WILL eventually need them.
3. Provisioning mats -- because of all of the different provisioning recipes, most of what you find is useless, BUT you don't know what actually is and is not useless. So the person who manages to NOT throw it away, is eventually rewarded once they find the needed recipes. In the mean time, that all adds up.
4. Enchanting -- we get TONS of runes, none of which we know for sure will be useful or not in the future (particularly the Essence runes). Keep them and MAYBE you'll find a use for them. In the mean time, most of the time, they are not IMMEDIATELY useful, so they just accumulate.
5. Items that you craft for yourself, that have traits -- in most other games, you just sell it off like vendor trash since no one else can use it. That's not the case here, as it becomes worthwhile to hold on to it for alts to research.
6. Treasure maps and pets and trophies -- If you can use the treasure map, it's rewarding. But particularly the CE maps have to stay around until you can use them. Pets and trophies are nice and irreplacable, so no one wants to just delete them. Trophies are reminders of successful quests and boss kills, but why give them out if they are relatively useless except as souvenirs, if you are going to allow them to clog up your inventory. Again, it's rewarding to receive one, but what are you going to do with it other than take up an inventory space? Most games that have collectables have alternate uses for them (either to put on display in housing, or in a collection that does not take up inventory space).

I probably can come up with more examples if I try, but you get the picture.

Some suggestions:
1. Maps, pets, and trophies should not take up inventory space.
2. Eliminate redundant Provisioning recipes, and then convert the redundant ingredients into the corresponding ingredient for the recipes you are keeping.
3. Do not have nodes in tier X zones that are for tier X+1 crafting (if you are crafting above your level, you can still go into those higher level zones to farm them).
4. Reduce the proportion of Essence runes you find. Reduce the number of runes you find that are not normally usable by crafters of the zone's level in which you find them (same principle as #3).
5. Create a research queue, and any item that is in that queue should be removed from your inventory. This will have two effects: not require you to be on-line to start the next research project, and will eliminate the need for those items to clog up your inventory. Note that Fallen Earth has a crafting/research queue (not because of any inventory issues) and everyone loves it. FE, in spite of all of its other faults, has one of the best crafting systems in any MMO ever, imho. We should learn from it.

Notice that none of my suggestions involve changes to the cost of inventory expansion. I would not object to that either, but I'm just pointing out that there are things that can be done to reduce the problem without actually doing that.

Alpha_Protocol

People that cancel because of inventory are encouraged to do so. Farewell.

When you leave mail me all of your stuff. I'll find a place for it.

knightblaster

Yes

Elirienne wrote: »

Nobody will cancel this game purely becaue their inventory space is smaller than they'd like. Don't be ridiculous. People who say they will are lying, or do not enjoy playing the game that much in the first place.

Other than monetary reasons, the one and only reason people cancel - the ONE AND ONLY - is when they feel the game cannot give them any more entertainment. Ie, they get bored or burnt out. This is true for every subscription game ever.

I would say that people quit a subscription game when the entertainment it gives them is no longer cost-justified compared to other entertainment, such that they no longer consider it worthwhile to spend the subscription fee on it. I don't think for most it's that they are burned out or feel that the game is worthless. Many people teeter on the line between subbing and not subbing based on a higher threshold of entertainment and enjoyment -- after all, they could be playing a SP game that they paid as much money for, without paying a sub, and be entertained. The key metric is whether there is incremental entertainment value beyond non-sub games such that maintaining a sub is justified -- and every person has a different experience of that, subjectively.

Certainly some people will quit over this. Will I do so? No, I have made peace with it, albeit a grudging kind of peace. But people quit MMOs all the time for all kinds of reasons -- I can imagine that this one, for some players, will be a kind of rubicon in determining what they do with their subs. I don't think that will be terribly many players, mind you, but I expect it will be some.