Boss Camping Has To Be Dealt With

MrGlad8

This IS an exploit and should reslult in warning/ban.

The boss only spawns when a "new" player enters the dungeon, the thing is that everyone can kill him every time he spawns, and hr drops the same amount and quality of items every time you kill him.

I'm sure it wasn't planned to be like this!

So... ban everyone!
No, but seriously, change it SOON!

MrGlad8

An easy fix = after you get the achievement (and you get that after killing the boss the first time, right?) you wont get any more loot from the boss in that dungeon!

now... patch please!!!

KerinKor

The economy is going to be ruined by several things, this is probably the least of them.

If by 'ruined' you mean crafters won't be able to gouge massive prices due to limited supply, then please bring it on.

Jade1986

Finally experienced this for myself, it was obvious it was bots because they all had clanfears summoned, and only those were attacking the boss, while the players stood still.....luckily I am a sorcerer and can just use instant lightning attacks to get credit for the kill. Even then it took the boss respawning 4 times before I got credit.....ugh....no lifers....

Ariane

Farming always existed in every MMO. The main inconvenient I have seen here is not about the economy, it's about the normal gameplay.

I went with my level 7 templar to one of these public dungeons just outside Daggerfall city, following the story and I found 4 or 5 characters with names like gjhjkhg, probably bots, standing in the exact respawn spot of the final boss. I don't care if they get money, or if they are leveling, I care about two facts:

- Bots are not allowed, so they obviously should be banned.
- Low level characters that are actually doing the dungeon almost cannot touch the final boss, so not only they don't get loot, but they also have to wait a few respawns to be able of finishing the dungeon, just because of this.

This is disrupting the normal gameplay. I get better rewards just by playing that standing there, so I'm not too worried about the economy right now, but people should be able to level without this kind of trouble

Luminant

Loot tables should be locked per dungeon boss for a duration. Farm fixed.

Etchesketch

I don't care about campers but botting kills the economy of a game. I've been watching the pro farmers with 5 char linked accounts far these publics all morning. They have a safe easy route to stock up on easy to turn in for gold items. Then it comes to you in your gold sellers.

This is why you can't stop gold sellers. This is a simple thing to kick these guys and ban them.

Nebb

I've played MMOs as well as single player games, and as far as I can tell, in neither of the ones I played there was such an issue with the small dungeons as in TESO.

In my opinion, best solution would be having every dungeon instanced, like in DDO for example.
- Farmers can farm - they go in, kill stuff, get out, reset. Go in, kill stuff, get out, reset. Go in, kill stuff, get out, reset...
- Roleplayers can roleplay - they go in, take their time, they can even sit there for one hour if they want to and talk with others in their party, kill boss, move on.
- People who come here from single player games also have fun - they go in alone, kill the boss, get loot, move on.

And this way you also have additional interaction with other people - for example you tried it on your own, died, then you ask poeple at the entrance if they can help, have some social interaction. I mean it is a multiplayer game, right? As it is now, it's like a bunch of people running together but everyone individually, noone even saying a word.

agnurlin

Do touch the bots' farming, don't touch mine, kthx.

Rousseaux

IMO it would be fair to give every player (or group) their own instanced dungeon so they could farm bosses. With each kill the quality of loot reduces, so there's no that much sense in farming till you're dead/ran out of bag space.
If you ask me, the whole idea of public dungeons is designed for spoiling others' fun/progression. I don't even remember when I encountered common mobs on the way to boss last time. Thus, I earn no loot/exp from them.
I'm ok with camping/farming bosses by players (not bots), but I admit that it isn't good.

BulbousMeathead

MrGlad8 wrote: »

An easy fix = after you get the achievement (and you get that after killing the boss the first time, right?) you wont get any more loot from the boss in that dungeon!

now... patch please!!!

I think this is a great idea - It would be relatively simple to implement, too, I think.

Vyndetta

griogal16_ESO wrote: »

The Boss farming really because a problem like when it makes it impossible for other to complete the dungeon. Like yesterday one boss was by one player and a suspiciously closely bunched up group that is was nearly impossible to get a hit in. In the end I just went to stand on the spawn spot and spam my basic hit, at which point the farmer said "Calm down stupid". Managed to my hit in for the achievement this way...before reporting said player.

Actually should have reported him twice...for exploiting and verbal abuse.

And just what would you accomplish by reporting the guy? He's not exploiting, according to the mod post in here, he's not breaking any rules. And if you think someone calling you stupid is verbal abuse, in a computer game, you really need to get some thicker skin.

I really liked the idea @Xaaz posted awhile back, if your report is found to be false, you should get the ban/flag on account.

Winnower

I have no problems with mob farming, and I don't think it needs to be fixed.

Getting rid of bots however, is always good.

Vyndetta

MrGlad8 wrote: »

Yes, this have to be dealt with soon.. or else the in-game economy will be totally ruined !

Was this meant to be like this? Didnt they understand this would become a huge huge problem?

And how exactly will this ruin the in-game economy? There's no auction house, only guild stores. Do the bosses always drop some super epic item? Nope.

Stop throwing nonsense out there. You have actually given an even worse reason than any others I've seen in this thread. LOL

Kilitar

In my opinion just tweaking BOSS respawn rate is easy, fast way to deal with Boss camping.
Bosses are camped because harvesting them is more profitable than exploring dungeon itself. Bigger respawn timer dcrease this probability and farming will be void.
On other side it will lead to situation when you exploring dungeon and do not encounter boss at all. Not big deal in my eyes. You can allwayz visit that dungeon later, it can happen that "big bad guy" is not at home right now so you need to find him later.

wyao

You guys all have your points. But to me, all i care about is Loot/better gear in a MMO.

And as long as i can get loot, i dont care people camp these bosses or not. But the bottom line is....all these public dungeons drop crappy loots compare to instance dungeons at veteran level. And final goal of MMO for me is to raid and get the best raid loots.

If you want a good fight, go to veteran dungeon and raid content in future.

So who care about these crappy public dungeon camping things. ZOS better focus on getting more instance lvl 50 dungeon out and raid content.

To me ESO is MMO like WOW or StarWar etc. It is all about getting better gear and fight harder bosses. If you want roleplay, i think SIM is a better game than ESO.

Nebb

wyao wrote: »

To me ESO is MMO like WOW or StarWar etc. It is all about getting better gear and fight harder bosses. If you want roleplay, i think SIM is a better game than ESO.

That is a fair point, however I believe there are ways to make more than one type of a player enjoy it, expanding the playerbase, and bigger playerbase = more money :-)

skhelterub17_ESO

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

What you call camping, I call legitimate farming for items to break down for crafting mats and trait research. As long as you are at the keyboard there is no problem killing a mob repeatedly in an open world environment.

You farmers ruin dungeons for the rest of us ok. So I hope ZOS implements my suggestion or something similar so that this ends. If you want mats go around the world exploring and collect.

Sorry if this has already been stated. TLDR but i scanned thru the first page and didn't see it.

While i agree that the bosses may be overdone, both in the loot they provide and thus overfarmed. Your statement goes against the game design. Of course people are going to farm stuff like this. Its the way the game is designed. You CANT go out and explore / collect crafting mats the way you can from these bosses. It just isn't out there to collect. Tempers are needed to upgrade and you get those from breaking down higher level items. They would have to provide some other way of getting these or remove the drop from the boss. Yes they drop from ore but at a much lower rate and increased difficulty. You would shift from one farm to another.

While i do think it may be over done(farming). I'm not sure the OP suggestions would help the game. I'd rather see less people in these public dungeons then to see a long timer. Maybe even an increase in boss difficulty.

Just my 2cents

Enodoc

Nebb wrote: »

I've played MMOs as well as single player games, and as far as I can tell, in neither of the ones I played there was such an issue with the small dungeons as in TESO.

In my opinion, best solution would be having every dungeon instanced, like in DDO for example.
- Farmers can farm - they go in, kill stuff, get out, reset. Go in, kill stuff, get out, reset. Go in, kill stuff, get out, reset...
- Roleplayers can roleplay - they go in, take their time, they can even sit there for one hour if they want to and talk with others in their party, kill boss, move on.
- People who come here from single player games also have fun - they go in alone, kill the boss, get loot, move on.

And this way you also have additional interaction with other people - for example you tried it on your own, died, then you ask poeple at the entrance if they can help, have some social interaction. I mean it is a multiplayer game, right? As it is now, it's like a bunch of people running together but everyone individually, noone even saying a word.

That would make sense to me too. Although just phasing out of the "live" layer once the boss is dead until you return to the entrance would still alleviate the problem without removing the openness of these dungeons.

On a related note - IMO there's too many players in each instance of the Delve Dungeons (Ilessan Tower, Silumm, Enduum, etc) anyway. They were supposed to be the open dungeons for solo/duo/smaller groups. The Public Dungeons elsewhere (Bad Man's Hallows, Crow's Wood) were supposed to be for the larger open groups. Delve Dungeons and Public Dungeons were also supposed to have different icons from each other to indicate this.

camknox

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

What you call camping, I call legitimate farming for items to break down for crafting mats and trait research. As long as you are at the keyboard there is no problem killing a mob repeatedly in an open world environment.

You farmers ruin dungeons for the rest of us ok. So I hope ZOS implements my suggestion or something similar so that this ends. If you want mats go around the world exploring and collect.

Mob density needs to be greatly increased for this. But a good bump to mob density would fix it. But you'd then have everyone complaining that the game was to hard.

I don't understand what the issue is here with you. My suggestion keeps the game open for all and allows the movement of players so that everyone gets their fair shot without the circus standing around the boss spawn. You enter the dungeon kill the boss (can't kill him for another hour) so you move along. Same will go for me and everyone else.

My issue is that this won't end. Lets say you get your way here. People looking to farm will then find a high density area to farm. These will likely be mobs needed for a quest of one type or another. The complaints will continue and nothing will change but location. This is an mmo people farm, they need to farm because there is a grind factor in all mmo's that last. Complaining about the farming gets no where. Ban botters, ban dupers, ban any other type of exploiter, but realize that actual farming is a core mechanic in all mmo's.

I appreciate your insight and opinion but I am failing to understand what you are trying to explain. If you kill a boss and a timer kicks in and you can't kill it again for an hour or more those players will move on. Everyone will have a turn as far as I can see it panning out.

Ok I'll try to explain again, because you aren't understanding. So lets say you get what you want and that suggestion happens. Farmers then find a high mob density area. Areas of high mob density usually have a quest associated with those mobs for killing the mobs. So then instead of thread titles of "End Boss Camping" you get thread titles of "End (quest mob x) farming in (zone name here)". You don't fix anything, you just move the spot that people are farming to somewhere else, and this continues over and over again.

Special NPC's should be protected like my suggestion would provide. For example, if a quest has you clear out a pack of wolves, protect those wolves from spawn camping. Don't protect random wolves out in the field no one particularly needs. Want to camp those wolves be my guest.

With the grind factor in mmo's that will kill the game and send it f2p because you'll be trying to keep people from farming.

Honest question are you primarily a single player gamer before now?

Mostly single, have played some MMO's. I see what you are saying but my suggestion allows the circulation of players. Campers won't stand around waiting to kill a boss for long periods of time.

Not to throw too big a spanner in the works here but you are as you stated not an MMO veteran. There are those of us who laugh at your 1 hour delay for camping mobs. Anyone familiar with EverQuest knows full well that camping is a way of life in an MMO. You peg out your spot and you guard it day and night, sometimes for many days. I once camped in a zone to kill a mob who was on a roughly 7 day timer. I had a rough idea of when he was last killed and I set up shop there 1 before the 7 days and he finally popped on the 8th day. So I spent around 56 hours sitting at my keys (with some minor dozing off while a friend kept watch for me). If it is worth the time for someone to wait, then they are going to wait. End of story.

Herbatio

People against "Farming" i think are ridiculous and just feel like they just need something to rant about. The farming spots are lame, and as i read earlier are like fighting wet noodles and such LOL. They are very easy. People can farm all they want in my opinion, it doesn't hurt my game. The fact is all this early questing is just a way build up your character and get ready for the best parts of what this game will be, the PvP and the group play. I love the whole elder scrolls series, and everything about, the rich environments, the lore, and looking through every nook and cranny. So if you feel your missing out on some exciting boss fights (which your really not) with some of these so-called trouble spots,..... c'mon lets have a glass of reality here, please.

DanteYoda

Better still if it gets killed in less than 5 sec the next time it spawns the boss aoe the whole area with a one hit kill attack randomly

Vhalkyrie

Yesterday afternoon I witnessed 5 bots autoswinging in Del's Claim. The only way I was able to finish the achievement was when a dragonknight was lucky enough to pull it out of the way. The gold farming issue aside, this is a game breaking experience for people just playing the game.

I reported them, but when I came back later in the evening to check on them, they were still there. All a dev or CSR needed to do was go look inside of Del's Claim and they'd see them plain as day autoswinging.

Nexxa

I'd just add some manner of diminishing returns. Make only the first kill of the day give you loot and every kill reduces XP gain from it by 50%.

Schmuck

It's nice being able to get a arse load of good loot, but takes away from the challenge I think a lot of us are going for. My suggestion, and it worked for me. Do other things until late at night. I went back in the middle of the night and was almost all alone in that dungeon. Also, the crowds come in waves. I was able to just wait it out until their inventories filled up once.

I think once you've killed him though, he should probably just not reappear for you. That's kind of corny if you already owned the guy.

I forgot to add...The "run-of-the-mill" players out there will probably start to drop off after the first couple of months. Rendering a much better playing experience.

Nebb

Good thought, we'll see how it goes, the game barely started after all :-)

Herbatio

I've been reading more and more on this topic...all i gotta say is please Bethesda, Release elder scrolls games for the consoles, EVERY YEAR, so people who want to play unhindered by others will have fun too.

kcolasaccob14_ESO

ladywillow15 wrote: »

What really bothers me is that there are achievements for killing these dungeon bosses. But then, I go into a dungeon and there are dudes 10 levels higher than the boss camping it, killing it in one or two hits. I can't even get a hit on it to tag it so I'll get any credit.

I just had to relog about 10 times to get an instance where that wasn't happening so I could kill that damn big bug in the Kwama Mine in Grahtwood and get my achievement.

When farmers are causing that level of disruption... I have a problem with it.

After being more than a few levels above a mob it turns gray and you get no loot. So essentially, your argument is a lie.

Talmet

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi folks,

We are looking at addressing the concerns expressed in this thread and others about public dungeon boss farming, from the development side. The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service. (Purposefully griefing is another story, entirely.) That said, there are some very valid concerns here, and we are looking at ways we can improve upon how public dungeons and the bosses in them work.

If we make any changes to public dungeons and bosses, we'll call them out in patch notes.

*Bold added by me

Manually farming bosses is not against the terms of service. & the very next thing is that "purposefully griefing is another story, entirely" Which means that farming bosses IS NOT GRIEFING. As griefing is "another story, entirely"

Zarec wrote: »

So I was correct in saying players were not getting in trouble for farming but getting in trouble for refusing to allow other players in accessing the content (as well as botting). Good to know.

First, "The act of manually farming these bosses, while possibly not very courteous of others who are trying to have a shot at the content too, is not against our Terms of Service." So, no, they didn't get banned for refusing to allow other players from accessing the content.

Second, actually you said that farming was "disrupting the normal flow" of play and was a violation of the ToS multiple times. You posted the link to the ToS, highlighted the part of it that talks about "disrupting the normal flow" of play & a link to a wikipedia entry on exploiting. Because you apparently believe, or at least believed, that farming was exploiting & a violation of the ToS. It is not, you were wrong.

You also posted the link to the thread about a guy who was banned for exploiting a boss repeatedly, again because you think, or thought, that farming a boss was exploiting. It is not (and ZoS agrees that it is not). No one other than ZoS & the player in question know what he was doing (and sometimes the player might not know either). In general exploiting a boss means using game physics/mechanics to trivialize the fight. i.e. using a part of the ground to trap/freeze/stun a boss which prevents the boss from being able to attack you, or some combination of skills that let you one shot the boss (i.e. if reducing the target's spell resistance & spell penetration were bugged and doing both resulted in a particular spell hitting for a billion damage.)

I could go back and post quotes from you to prove you said all of that, but this post is long enough already.You stated the above repeatedly on pages 1-3 of this thread....

Zarec wrote: »

Clarification: If you refuse to allow another player who needs to kill the boss for achievement/quest progression that is considered griefing (hence what i mean by refusing to allow other players to access content). So players need to communicate and if they refuse or don't respond (you have a botter and a case of griefing both of which you should prob report).

How does someone "refuse to allow another player" from attacking a boss? Not only do you only need one hit...YOU ONLY NEED ONE HEAL! Even if the person is at full health, you still get credit & loot for one heal.

And no, players don't "need to communicate." There is no part of the ToS which requires me to chat with you in game. If I don't want to type anything in the chat window, I don't have to & it is not griefing if I don't respond to you. It is not my responsibility in game to make sure that strangers I come across get credit for kills. Griefing means that someone is intentionally interrupting your play (i.e. they follow you around for an hour, and refuse to leave you alone), if they are just doing their own thing and don't even notice you, they are not griefing you.

Just because you are a chatterbox in game, doesn't mean that everyone else has to be as well; and that if they aren't, they must be botting. I rarely even read my chat window, as there are these things called headphones & mics, which when combined with programs like vent/TS/mumble make it so that you can just talk to people. Except to find good trading guilds to join, I haven't really used in game chat in ESO (which is good, as from what I've heard, in game chat is full of gold seller spam).

Zarec wrote: »

Now when I make my healer that will change as it will be my second play through really not looking forward to this headache at that time.

Your healer won't have any issue...I'm lvling as a healer, and boss farming is easy mode....I just pop rejuv (2nd skill in the resto staff tree) a few times to put my HoT on most/all of the players every 15 seconds or so, and I get credit for every boss kill even if I don't attack. Hell, I get credit for people's kills in the open world all the time for popping rejuv on random players I see (as long as they enter combat in the next 15-18 seconds, I get XP/loot/quest credit).

Xnemesis

I have seen this in every dungeon and I don't see that it is much of a problem. I usually go into dungeons for four things. The skyshard, quest, achievement, and the blue that drops from the final boss. I will normally sit on a boss till I get my blue then move on to the next bit of questing I have to do. I have killed bosses once or I have had to wait up to 5 kills to get my blue item. It can and will be abused though which sucks but it certainly isn't broken. When people wanna power lvl they will power lvl and you wont stop them. Just know they miss out on all quest rewards and a *** ton of skyshards/skill points, so their are ups and downs. The only reason people should wine or report a group is if they are stopping you from completing the quests or they are vampire and werewolf spawn killing for cash. just my 2 cents, happy hunting