Boss Camping Has To Be Dealt With

SuperJChat

I agree, it is annoying to have 10 people spam a boss and watch it drop in 1 second flat, while you barely even get 1 swing at it, but i think setting a timer on each player isn't necessary.

The issue is that people will want to Farm the boss for drops, gold, exp, and such. While some bosses like dungeon bosses only spawn when a new player enters the dungeon, other "semi-bosses" will spawn rapidly. I once found a group spamming a mini-boss who respawned every couple of seconds after he was killed, was pretty entertaining to see all the corpses of him laying about, even though he dropped average gear and almost no Xp.

So what would work to make people stop farming bosses?

1) Make dungeons/quests with bosses have separate phases for each player, and unless the player goes into the dungeon in a group (as in party that you nave to be invited to, not just 3 people enter at once) they basically have to solo it. Also have the boss only die one time during the phase, and unless you exit and return to the dungeon the boss won't respawn. Annoying but effective.

2) Set every single boss on a timer of 1-3 minute respawn. People can still "camp" the boss, but this way it takes much longer for them to see the fruits of their efforts, also it would be way more profitable to say, idk, play the game? Again, annoying, this way would also make it harder to get the quest done if people ARE spamming the boss.

3) Nerf boss rewards. Can be done by either setting a Blue or green drop to occur ONE time per boss, and the boss drops either nothing or a bit of gold after the initial kill, OR by making the only "reward" for killing the boss be obtainable by complete the quest. As far as Xp rewards go, have the Xp earned for the initial kill be something worth the effort (or lack thereof) and then every kill after has a reduction in Xp by X% until the Xp reward is low enough to get you to the next level in say, 10,000 Kills. Honestly who would camp that boss?

4) A combination of 1-3. A boss that each player has a different phase for, who is set to a 2 minute respawn timer, who drops less and less rewards per kill? Guaranteed not to be farmed.

All of these are just ideas. Any of them will make some people rage and others rejoice. but honestly these are the best solutions i could come up with.

Let me know what you think ;P

Publius_Scipio

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Midgardian wrote: »

"My suggestion keeps the game open for all "

This has got to be one of the most overblown uses of rhetoric I've seen on these forums. Farming public dungeon bosses is closing the game?

What exactly is the problem? I've been in a public dungeon where 10-15 people were farming the boss, and I had no problem killing the boss multiple times and getting useful items. If you aren't happy, do something else.

The only way I can see this changing for the positive is if quests and random world mobs give better loot. Overall, the quest rewards are pretty lacking in this game, making it necessary to farm mobs.

I find the public dungeons fun when there are a lot of people in them.

I'll keep it simple for you so you don't come back with sarcasm. Boss camping is clown activity. Other players want to explore and have a boss fight. Is that ok with you? All are entitled to that boss fight. My suggestion makes it so that since you can't slam the boss every 2 minutes, you exit and head somewhere else. That gives Bobby Turnbuckles a chance to fight a boss and walk away with the satisfying experience.

You think your quest for loot or xp or whatever else it is should hamper the rest of our experiences? And I can say with some deal of certainty that ZOS sides with those who want those thrilling boss fights. You have your chance for loot and xp just the way I do and the rest do. But you farming the boss hurts my game experience and others. You follow me now?

No because none of the boss fights in public dungeons are fun and exciting because even when done solo (which I have done on beta and early access) they're too easy to care about. They hit like wet noodles and have the health of a piece of tissue paper. They're loot pinatas that's is all they are. If they were intended to be some memorable experience they'd hit harder and have much much more hp.

Next issue who says your way of enjoying the game should be preferable to my way of enjoying farming? Fact is you've admitted you've mostly played single player titles. I honestly expected this from your comments. Now it's very very likely that you won't be here long as you are not a mmo player and the features needed for an mmo will likely drive you up the wall. That means you aren't a long term revenue stream. Doing what you want will hurt that long term revenue stream because it hurts farmers.

You can't impose your farming on the rest of our experiences. Are you even serious? Dictating that boss fights aren't fun because you say so? And I really do hope ZOS comes out to address this issue publicly because I don't see them allowing boss fight experiences ruined because you have to farm.

And my suggestion keeps it fair for all of us. You get the kill the boss, I get to kill the boss, and so does the next. Your annoyance is you have to keep moving along to find other things to kill. My annoyance is you ruin that boss fight.

And I'm here because I've been a huge Elder Scrolls fan for over a decade.

Publius_Scipio

SuperJChat wrote: »

I agree, it is annoying to have 10 people spam a boss and watch it drop in 1 second flat, while you barely even get 1 swing at it, but i think setting a timer on each player isn't necessary.

The issue is that people will want to Farm the boss for drops, gold, exp, and such. While some bosses like dungeon bosses only spawn when a new player enters the dungeon, other "semi-bosses" will spawn rapidly. I once found a group spamming a mini-boss who respawned every couple of seconds after he was killed, was pretty entertaining to see all the corpses of him laying about, even though he dropped average gear and almost no Xp.

So what would work to make people stop farming bosses?

1) Make dungeons/quests with bosses have separate phases for each player, and unless the player goes into the dungeon in a group (as in party that you nave to be invited to, not just 3 people enter at once) they basically have to solo it. Also have the boss only die one time during the phase, and unless you exit and return to the dungeon the boss won't respawn. Annoying but effective.

2) Set every single boss on a timer of 1-3 minute respawn. People can still "camp" the boss, but this way it takes much longer for them to see the fruits of their efforts, also it would be way more profitable to say, idk, play the game? Again, annoying, this way would also make it harder to get the quest done if people ARE spamming the boss.

3) Nerf boss rewards. Can be done by either setting a Blue or green drop to occur ONE time per boss, and the boss drops either nothing or a bit of gold after the initial kill, OR by making the only "reward" for killing the boss be obtainable by complete the quest. As far as Xp rewards go, have the Xp earned for the initial kill be something worth the effort (or lack thereof) and then every kill after has a reduction in Xp by X% until the Xp reward is low enough to get you to the next level in say, 10,000 Kills. Honestly who would camp that boss?

4) A combination of 1-3. A boss that each player has a different phase for, who is set to a 2 minute respawn timer, who drops less and less rewards per kill? Guaranteed not to be farmed.

All of these are just ideas. Any of them will make some people rage and others rejoice. but honestly these are the best solutions i could come up with.

Let me know what you think ;P

Thanks for your input.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

And my suggestion keeps it fair for all of us. You get the kill the boss, I get to kill the boss, and so does the next. Your annoyance is you have to keep moving along to find other things to kill. My annoyance is you ruin that boss fight.

And the day after you get your way your annoyance will be that we were farming the world mobs you needed for a quest. If farming annoys you, you will always be annoyed and unhappy playing an mmo. There is no magic bullet that will make you happy and let the game succeed.

Publius_Scipio

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

And my suggestion keeps it fair for all of us. You get the kill the boss, I get to kill the boss, and so does the next. Your annoyance is you have to keep moving along to find other things to kill. My annoyance is you ruin that boss fight.

And the day after you get your way your annoyance will be that we were farming the world mobs you needed for a quest. If farming annoys you, you will always be annoyed and unhappy playing an mmo. There is no magic bullet that will make you happy and let the game succeed.

I'm sure ZOS will have a response and take action accordingly.

Tetrasoli

Everyone arguing over loot and such, but might I remind people that dungeons were designed to provide players exploration, challenge and lore? Let's address each:

1) Exploration. Skyrim and Oblivion offered players a chance to delve into dark dungeons filled with traps, monsters and puzzles, usually with some tangible reward at the end. The key element here is the concept of "intimate". Figuring out how to kill an exceptionally hard mob, or choosing how to approach a problem was a very personal experience that was justly rewarded depending on play style. There is no intimacy or challenge when other players are killing things for you.

2) Challenge. Another feature of traditional delves/dungeons is the high risk of death and reward associated with figuring out ways to tackle dangers. A corollary to this principle is that if you fail, you return and re-attempt the challenge a different way. Eventually, you devise a strategy, overcome the obstacle and are rewarded for patience and strategy. In the current system, if I am lucky enough to attempt to kill a hard mob by myself, I can never enjoy the reward of reassessing my strategy and tackling it again, because by the time I resurrect, a swarm of players has killed them already.

Further, people who support the notion of public dungeons in their current form seem to be forgetting the biggest flaw of the system; that mobs are tuned to single players, not groups. Therefore, the content is trivialized and, instead of earning a sky shard or blue item due to strategy and skill, you earn it simply by being there, or letting other people clear the content for you.

3) Lore. Concerning lore/story and especially in quest dungeons, there are numerous complaints from players who care about these things, that they have no time to "take in the scenery" and actually experience the immersion when quest mobs, key NPCs and bosses, are being face-rolled before they have a chance to interact with them. Image the player who is immersed in a story that, for several levels of questing, has been the central antagonist. He is described as a powerful entity that is neigh impossible to defeat but for the "chosen hero", you. You complete all of the requisite quests, enter the final dungeon for the confrontation with this powerful creature and... he is practically globaled by ten other players. Entire experience ruined. Sure that doesn't matter to those who are more interested in plowing through content and getting phat lewts, but this is, after all, an Elder Scrolls game. Right? I've started to question that lately.

Now image a system where you have it all. Maybe you aren't feeling very social one day, so you decide to do delves to test your combat ability. You enter a solo dungeon and maybe even invite a friend. You tackle challenges, collect loot and move on. You've taken the experience at the pace you wanted. Remember? It's all about choice in Elder Scrolls. Well, it's supposed to be, right?

Or maybe you're a social butterfly and like to group with strangers to tackle content. No problem. You have a choice of numerous overworld bosses as well as specially tuned dungeons for public groups where mobs are nearly impossible to kill alone. You have PvP and town hubs as well, where you interact with hundreds of players. The world is still an MMO and you see people all over the place. But you still have a choice. And again, isn't that what Elder Scrolls is about?

Dodece

In my opinion this is all much to do about nothing. The problem for the original poster seems to be self generated. This game operates off of a mega server architecture. Meaning that there are hundreds if not thousands of instances of the exact same locations, and it further subdivides the population into distinct phases.

So the answer is pretty straight forward. If you find yourself surrounded by other players you don't like on a constant basis. Then you can do something about that by doing things to distance yourself from them.

Slow down your game progression. Do something else for awhile. Leave any guilds you are currently a member of. Chances are the game tries to put guild mates into the same phases. Spend some time at lower level areas helping out lower level players. This should put you on the path to being sorted in with more laid back company. That aren't by an large hardcore campers.

I have personally had no issue whatsoever with campers. In fact from time to time I find myself lamenting a lack of players to work together with in my area. How did I get this wonderful lot. I didn't try to burn through the game. I am just taking my sweet time soaking it up, and going through it at a measured pace. Which in turn has me playing with more like minded players.

nathanmaxtrob14_ESO

People camping bosses does ruin the experience for everybody else.

I basically had to wait for the boss to spawn for each public dungeon I went into because people were camping it. A couple of times I walked by the boss area not knowing that a boss was supposed to be there. Then when the "boss" does spawn, it's killed in one second, hopefully you were able to get one hit off so you can get the achievement.

The simplest fix is to make the player only be able to loot the boss the first time they kill it.

KerinKor

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

What you call camping, I call legitimate farming for items to break down for crafting mats and trait research. As long as you are at the keyboard there is no problem killing a mob repeatedly in an open world environment.

You farmers ruin dungeons for the rest of us ok. So I hope ZOS implements my suggestion or something similar so that this ends. If you want mats go around the world exploring and collect.

Mob density needs to be greatly increased for this. But a good bump to mob density would fix it. But you'd then have everyone complaining that the game was to hard.

I don't understand what the issue is here with you. My suggestion keeps the game open for all and allows the movement of players so that everyone gets their fair shot without the circus standing around the boss spawn. You enter the dungeon kill the boss (can't kill him for another hour) so you move along. Same will go for me and everyone else.

The issue us he wants to farm the boss for easy mats, and doesn't care that others can't complete quests because he's monoplising the mob. In other games this is an offense that can lead to suspension, hopefully Zenimax will do that here.

Spacemonkey

Good luck getting through rulanyil's fall on your own , unless you skip it and come back 10 lvls later.

Also you haven't thought of the implications of your idea on the multiplayer aspect of things.

Example:
You find a boss location (skull icons). And it demolishes you. (Zymel anyone?). So you wait a while hoping someone else comes by to help you out, OR you ask in the zone chat or one of your friends to help you out. By chance, someone responds and heads towards boss. You engage it again, only to die again, all while being stared at by the "help". Why? Because they CAN'T help you because some lame protection timer is in place for them because they helped someone else 20 mins ago.

I do not like the idea because it doesn't bring anything to the game. All it does is enforce a lower quest completion time for those requiring specific boss mobs killed. It neither makes it easier, or more challenging, or more profitable or more anything. And it takes away the ability to repeatedly carry out profitable actions. (Aka farming)

Nicor

So, boss you want to kill is only killable once an hour. You know it drops an item you want. You kill it, it doesn't drop. Now you have to wait an hour to try again. That won't fly. Not at low levels at least. End game, sure. People expect loot to be hard to get. But, I don't think it's an issue about boss camping myself. This whole thing seems like a non issue to me.
Also, complaining you cant kill a boss that spawns every 30 seconds is not acceptable. All you need is one hit. Didn't get one in fast enough? Wait 30 seconds and try again.

KerinKor

At low levels there's nothing a boss may drop that's in any way 'needed' so waiting an hour as in your example is fine if it means campers can't grief questers in the way these farmers are doing right now.

Saerydoth

This is the problem. The people that are doing this legitimately (meaning, not botting), are going to find SOMETHING to camp. No matter what Zenimax does, they will not be able to stop people from doing it. If they stop it in one place, the people will just move to something else that's easy to camp.

Zarec

Infringing on other players ability to enjoy the game in a natural progression is against the games code of conduct and terms you agreed to when you created your account. It is why players have been getting banned. Camping bosses is not ok as it removes another players ability to enjoy the natural progression of the game hurting their experience and ability to enjoy the game they have purchased and continue to pay for. If someone wants to spawn camp doing it in a non crowded non high traffic area is less detrimental to other players.

Unfortunately we have many people who feel that they have the right to ruin other players enjoyment of the game.

I personally agree with the companies position to remove those players who sit there and spawn camp from the game for a time. I also like the original posters idea to address it.

Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to the Services. As noted above, this could result because (i) Your information is untrue, inaccurate, not complete or incomplete; (ii) Your activities infringe on or are suspected to infringe on another’s rights or any intellectual property; (iii) ZeniMax in its sole discretion determined that You or Your Account reflects inappropriate content; or (iv) You or activities taken under or with Your Account violate the Terms of Service. Other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.

Source: zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

Nicor

Well, in that case you are making me not enjoy the game by saying i cant kill what i want when i want. That door works both ways. Camping bosses is exactly what happens in free roam worlds. Rare spawn for WoW, same idea. Except these public dungeons spawn a lot faster. If i want loot i am going to sit there until i get what i want. That is exactly how MMO's work. End game bosses just dont die as fast.

Zarec

Nicor wrote: »

Well, in that case you are making me not enjoy the game by saying i cant kill what i want when i want. That door works both ways. Camping bosses is exactly what happens in free roam worlds. Rare spawn for WoW, same idea. Except these public dungeons spawn a lot faster. If i want loot i am going to sit there until i get what i want. That is exactly how MMO's work. End game bosses just dont die as fast.

You're free to do that...but that link I posted says specifically any act done by player that zenimax deams inappropriate or what they deem infringes on another players rights to enjoy the natural progression of the game is a punishable offense. It's there in black and white. You may not agree with it but you agreed to those terms when you created your account. Next time read the fine print.

And for clarification: boss camping is not a natural progression of gameplay. It is exploiting of game mechanics at the effect of ruining other players chance to experience the same content. Therefor punishable. So keep doing it at your own risk.

Sinoby

My opinion is: the whole idea of publich dungeons is bad, and the way this dungeons are implemented is bad. It is not fun to do 90% of pub dungeons (except for those harder ones with more mobs and more bosses) because you always run into train of other people running through it, getting to the box, instagibbing him and either moving along or staying to farm. Not to mention most of the dungeons have the same layout, I'd expect to have more variety. But in my opinion problem is not the whole "farm of the boss is revarding", but the ammount of people allowd in same instance of the dungeon. I would lower it to 4 max and crenked the dificulty of mobs up a fair bit, so the dungeon doesn't fill like a walk in the park.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

Zarec wrote: »

Nicor wrote: »

Well, in that case you are making me not enjoy the game by saying i cant kill what i want when i want. That door works both ways. Camping bosses is exactly what happens in free roam worlds. Rare spawn for WoW, same idea. Except these public dungeons spawn a lot faster. If i want loot i am going to sit there until i get what i want. That is exactly how MMO's work. End game bosses just dont die as fast.

You're free to do that...but that link I posted says specifically any act done by player that zenimax deams inappropriate or what they deem infringes on another players rights to enjoy the natural progression of the game is a punishable offense. It's there in black and white. You may not agree with it but you agreed to those terms when you created your account. Next time read the fine print.

And for clarification: boss camping is not a natural progression of gameplay. It is exploiting of game mechanics at the effect of ruining other players chance to experience the same content. Therefor punishable. So keep doing it at your own risk.

Have you played a game with world raid bosses? Guilds would get their timers down and have the boss tagged within seconds of their spawn. Were they exploiting? This kind of complaining has no good end to it.

Zarec

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Zarec wrote: »

Nicor wrote: »

Well, in that case you are making me not enjoy the game by saying i cant kill what i want when i want. That door works both ways. Camping bosses is exactly what happens in free roam worlds. Rare spawn for WoW, same idea. Except these public dungeons spawn a lot faster. If i want loot i am going to sit there until i get what i want. That is exactly how MMO's work. End game bosses just dont die as fast.

You're free to do that...but that link I posted says specifically any act done by player that zenimax deams inappropriate or what they deem infringes on another players rights to enjoy the natural progression of the game is a punishable offense. It's there in black and white. You may not agree with it but you agreed to those terms when you created your account. Next time read the fine print.

And for clarification: boss camping is not a natural progression of gameplay. It is exploiting of game mechanics at the effect of ruining other players chance to experience the same content. Therefor punishable. So keep doing it at your own risk.

Have you played a game with world raid bosses? Guilds would get their timers down and have the boss tagged within seconds of their spawn. Were they exploiting? This kind of complaining has no good end to it.

I have played mmo style games since 2004. Majority of games with world bosses have extensive timers attached to them. The design of the public dungeons may be flawed to some it however does not change the fact that zenimax still views it as a punishable offense. Arguing your point with me about why you think it should be allowed does you no good as my view is the same as zenimax and multiple other players. I highly doubt players would be getting punished for exploiting a spawn timer if people did not complain.

So why continue to do something when a large amount of players seem to be complaining about the behavior? It gives the impression that rules and other players opinions do not matter to the person doing it. Hence why I think players have been getting harsher treatment than they would normally happen. In GW2 mods would randomly port in to farming spots and kill all the players there to see how many were afk farming and ban those that stayed dead. They didn't get a second chance...at least these players they ban are.

elderscrollsb16_ESO109

Guess what ? Elders Scolls Online is not wow.

I mean, saying, we can do it in WOW so we have the right to do the same in ESO is not true.

This games has it own rules and if Zenimax decides that doing this or this is bad for the overall game experience, they have the right to punish players that violate the code of conduct they put in place, even if the same act is authorized on other games.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

I argue because I want zenimax to know that I think it's inane and nonsensical. I don't know if the people saying they were banned were legit or using a bot. But if they are banning people for legit farming I will be recommending to everyone I know not to pay for this game or subscribe, it's a fun game but that kind of reaction from the company, and terroristic attitude by the immersion crowd would kill the game for me if it turns out to be true as farming is a massive part of mmos.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

Basically I see the immersion crowd as saying "YOU WILL PLAY MY WAY OR YOU WILL BE BANNED AS I AM GOD"

Zarec

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

I argue because I want zenimax to know that I think it's inane and nonsensical. I don't know if the people saying they were banned were legit or using a bot. But if they are banning people for legit farming I will be recommending to everyone I know not to pay for this game or subscribe, it's a fun game but that kind of reaction from the company, and terroristic attitude by the immersion crowd would kill the game for me if it turns out to be true as farming is a massive part of mmos.

Those players that posted about getting banned were banned for not following the rules set forth by zenimax. If you don't want to play the game because you feel you have the right to infringe on a players ability to enjoy the natural progression of the game then honestly, a mmo is not for you. As you need to take into consideration other players as well as you. This is an extension of society, if you cannot play well with others then you stop being welcome.

Zarec

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Basically I see the immersion crowd as saying "YOU WILL PLAY MY WAY OR YOU WILL BE BANNED AS I AM GOD"

No what you see is zenimax saying, break our rules and be banned as we own the game.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

I don't find them to be infringing on the natural gameplay. The natural gameplay is to kill mobs. They are not botting, they are not running a macro. If that is their true definition they need to spell it out and then they can watch the exodus.

Zarec

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

I don't find them to be infringing on the natural gameplay. The natural gameplay is to kill mobs. They are not botting, they are not running a macro. If that is their true definition they need to spell it out and then they can watch the exodus.

zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

Read it. It's in black and white and spelled out quite well. Cudos to the lawyer who drew it up. Oh be sure to pay attention to the semicolon use in there. It can throw you off a tad if you skim.

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO

I know how you read it. But it's standard mmo boiler plate. I'm saying if they interpret normal farming to be griefing behavior as you think they do. It is cause to abandon this company.

Zarec

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

I know how you read it. But it's standard mmo boiler plate. I'm saying if they interpret normal farming to be griefing behavior as you think they do. It is cause to abandon this company.

That is your opinion and currently you would be in the minority on that from all the posts on the forums about this topic. So hate to see you go if that is what you decide, but if you are unwilling to follow the rules then maybe it is for best.

steveb16_ESO46

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

You farmers ruin dungeons for the rest of us ok.

They are. I'm sometimes lucky I can get a shot in on a boss let alone experience the combat challenge game-play. Camping bosses needs to be deterred and I like the OP's suggestion.

IMHO public dungeon boss encounters should be instanced for up to groups of 4 with no respawn.

Zarec

jdkorreckpreub18_ESO wrote: »

Actually just cancelled my account and I will be actively campaigning for people to not play this game now, until they reverse this policy.

Here is a direct quote from section 8 of the terms you agreed to just for your reference.

Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities.

I bolded the area that pertains to this area. Your idea that boss camping is a natural progression of the game would by definition be incorrect as killing a boss 30 times does not progress the game in any fashion. What it does do is when large groups of players sit and spawn camp,any player that tries to access the boss for a quest completion as is what is happening, it limits their ability to natural progression and then we run into the problem of player rights being infringed upon.