PTS Update 44 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

Joy_Division

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

This comment is for sorcerer class exclusivly.

Sorcerer shield healing nerf, why? The whole point of this healing part from the begining is that sorcerer (especialy non pet) were lacking healing power since pet sorc would most likely use twlight. If you think the healing scale too far, you can simply put cap and solve the issue of "too much healing". Another solution is to give sorcerer an actual healing skill that us not a pet or cast time.

Also, negate? Both morphs and base skill are hardly ever used except for very very specific situations in PvP.

Another useless sorcerer skill is power surge, now dragonknights have there own better version of power surge, why this skill is still the same useless morph?

Another skill that is in a weird spot is mages fury, the only excute skill in the game that does not have excution modifier, instead given flat number making it much weaker than excute skills. Even worse is one morph thst us supposed to be be the "extra damage morph" is only dealing more dmg to surrounding enemies while other morph return resources, needless to say the latter morph is much better in both PvE and PvP. This skill sould be looked at and addressed according to what it is supposed to do.

Last skill is escape bolt, why is this skill still not functions like its better counterpart mist form where you choost a target location instead of being lock on the full 15m distance? Furthermore, why streak still does not have a targeting option as well as the free aim one? It would be a quality imporvment that will let sorcerer use its offensive cc streak as intended straight into the targets face or back instead of going going though to other side only to run back to target again in which they already broken free of cc. This location targeting/enemy targeting will make escape bolt a better skill easily used in conjuction with armor sets/skills in the game.

Anyone who takes 5 mins and throws together builds to compare a sorc with power surge vs a warden with polar wind could see the vast difference in class heals. Even if you compare crit surge to polar wind it is not even worth slotting by comparison. The main issue with both morphs of surge is that they require investment into crit, then require a crit to occur, which requires ticks per second, which then has a cooldown baked on to it. Only to just be a single target heal that is sub par after HEAVY amounts of build investment. Compare that to polar wind, where it scales off the easiest and most prevalent stat in the game. Acts as a burst, hot, and heals allies while also giving you major mending at low hp.

I would like to see both morphs have their cooldown removed since you already have the crit chance based cooldown.(opens up incentive to not just stack pen and wd on builds.) Then make power surge the large group 12p morph triggering off outgoing heal crits and crit surge the small group 4p morph that triggers off your outgoing damage.

This would at least help give sorcs a place in group combat. Right now they can only contribute damage, where other classes contribute the same damage + heals.

Trying to compare a busted burst heal skill in Polar Wind to the Sorcerer's skill whose primary function is providing major sorcerery/brutality of course is going to provide a vast differnce in healing.

Polar wind is thr primary survival skill wardens use and that is best compared to Hardened Ward, which is the primary skill Sorcerers. Both are incredibly strong, skills that even make Cloaking NBs jealous, and as such neither Wardens nor sorcerers need a buff for survivability in group combat.

I thought I already responded to this, sorry.

I was comparing polar to surge because the previous conversation was about the hardened ward nerf or impending nerfs. IMO bouncing between stamsorc and better stamsorc(warden) polar wind is comparable to hardened(burst) and critsurge(hot). I can try to pull numbers next time i play them.....though I think we all know polar is ridiculous with how easy it is to sit at 50khp on any pvp build these days. My main gripe is that sorc and more so stamsorc has absolutely nothing you can do to help allies and a change to power surge would be nice. Its bad enough my group has me swap of stamsorc and one of our other guys swaps off templar for warden off heals.

I actually wonder about comparing a max mag and a max health(pen/sd) mag sorc build. Curious on the scaling of ward one vs the other. (in general wd is 40% more damage per line vs max stat and pen is 80% more damage per line so there could be damage gains)

Well of course a Stam Sorc won't be able to help allies compared to a busted skill that is Polar Wind. The Power Surge morph is already quite good at doing this and that morph on its own was a big reason we used sorcerers as healers in our groups compositions. I think it is silly to use a Polar Warden as the standard.

Though I don't think you need to worry. It seems that ZOS is intent on further exacerbating the existing problem with the ease and potency of group passive healing as we see with the past two updates to Intensive Mender and Inferno. It's just a matter of time until they get to every class and change what historically had been single target class heals to become multi-target triple heals. After that I can contemplate whether chewing glass is preferable to playing in Cyrodiil or BGs against organized groups.

Benzux

Nethervoid wrote: »

I have realized that with the previous change of moving Veiled Strike to Assassination skill tree from Shadow and now with the Cloak nerf it's near impossible for my Stamina Nightblade to have a reasonable access to the Shadow passive "Shadow Barrier" that gives us Major Resolve. Since every single Shadow ability now costs Magicka and cloak being expensive I cannot keep up my Major Resolve. Therefore I think at least 1 ability morph on the Shadow skill tree should be turned into a Stamina ability. Currently Magicka Nightblades are already stronger and now with the cloak change stamina nightblades simply no longer have enough Magicka resource to even have Major Resolve most of the fight. My suggestion would be to change either Mirage or Phantasmal Escape into a stamina morph so that at least Stamina Nightblades are not completely destroyed after this change.

On a second note: Necromancer needs immediate further buffs. There are 2 major problems with the class that can be fixed as follows:

1) The class has no strong spammable skill. Flaming Skull is a joke. It's maybe OK in PVE i have no idea but in terms of PVP necro needs a very good spammable. So either change Flaming Skull OR even better change Hungry Scythe into an Execute ability. That would be thematic and cool to "reap" low hp people with a scythe. Necro is lacking in the department of "awesome" looking/feeling abilities anyways.

2) Speaking of looking/feeling bad the class has 2 "tether" abilities that are both unreliable and comical to be honest. I don't want to "tether" myself to a corpse. No one is gonna stand in that tether and to REITERATE it LOOKS BAD. So remove the tether element from both Shocking Siphon and Restoring Tether and make them both give benefits on the character itself. A nice example is the new necro set that allows the necro himself to be the corpse which LOOKS and FEELS awesome and that you actually can use these abilities to their full potential this way. I think this should be the standard of these skills. Necro should drain the corpse (maybe a 0.4 second cast time can be put in place here) and the benefit should "stick" on the necro himself.

Just my personal opinion but Flame Skull is a joke in PvE as well. Horribly clunky to use since day one and somehow even worse to weave than the Warden's Cliff Racer. I've long since come to accept that ZoS isn't going to change the clunkiness of the ability, but hopefully other pain points of the Necromancer can be addressed.

As for tethers, they're decently good in PvE, and I think it's okay to have some abilities that don't get much use in one half of the game or the other (for example, I haven't used or seen anyone use Templar's Piercing Javelin outside of Cyrodiil). It is a bit unfortunate now though that a PvP necro won't have in-class access to Major Prophecy/Savagery without having to slot a nearly useless skill for it. Maybe Shocking Siphon could be changed to function as a fire-and-forget ability targeted at a corpse that then puts an aura around you for the duration, like you suggested, while Detonating Siphon remains the same, as now with Corpseburster, I'm getting quite a bit of mileage out of using it.

The changes to Grave Grasp are going in the right direction, but as others have pointed out and suggested, it needs a bit more to be useful.

MincMincMinc

Joy_Division wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

MincMincMinc wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

This comment is for sorcerer class exclusivly.

Sorcerer shield healing nerf, why? The whole point of this healing part from the begining is that sorcerer (especialy non pet) were lacking healing power since pet sorc would most likely use twlight. If you think the healing scale too far, you can simply put cap and solve the issue of "too much healing". Another solution is to give sorcerer an actual healing skill that us not a pet or cast time.

Also, negate? Both morphs and base skill are hardly ever used except for very very specific situations in PvP.

Another useless sorcerer skill is power surge, now dragonknights have there own better version of power surge, why this skill is still the same useless morph?

Another skill that is in a weird spot is mages fury, the only excute skill in the game that does not have excution modifier, instead given flat number making it much weaker than excute skills. Even worse is one morph thst us supposed to be be the "extra damage morph" is only dealing more dmg to surrounding enemies while other morph return resources, needless to say the latter morph is much better in both PvE and PvP. This skill sould be looked at and addressed according to what it is supposed to do.

Last skill is escape bolt, why is this skill still not functions like its better counterpart mist form where you choost a target location instead of being lock on the full 15m distance? Furthermore, why streak still does not have a targeting option as well as the free aim one? It would be a quality imporvment that will let sorcerer use its offensive cc streak as intended straight into the targets face or back instead of going going though to other side only to run back to target again in which they already broken free of cc. This location targeting/enemy targeting will make escape bolt a better skill easily used in conjuction with armor sets/skills in the game.

Anyone who takes 5 mins and throws together builds to compare a sorc with power surge vs a warden with polar wind could see the vast difference in class heals. Even if you compare crit surge to polar wind it is not even worth slotting by comparison. The main issue with both morphs of surge is that they require investment into crit, then require a crit to occur, which requires ticks per second, which then has a cooldown baked on to it. Only to just be a single target heal that is sub par after HEAVY amounts of build investment. Compare that to polar wind, where it scales off the easiest and most prevalent stat in the game. Acts as a burst, hot, and heals allies while also giving you major mending at low hp.

I would like to see both morphs have their cooldown removed since you already have the crit chance based cooldown.(opens up incentive to not just stack pen and wd on builds.) Then make power surge the large group 12p morph triggering off outgoing heal crits and crit surge the small group 4p morph that triggers off your outgoing damage.

This would at least help give sorcs a place in group combat. Right now they can only contribute damage, where other classes contribute the same damage + heals.

Trying to compare a busted burst heal skill in Polar Wind to the Sorcerer's skill whose primary function is providing major sorcerery/brutality of course is going to provide a vast differnce in healing.

Polar wind is thr primary survival skill wardens use and that is best compared to Hardened Ward, which is the primary skill Sorcerers. Both are incredibly strong, skills that even make Cloaking NBs jealous, and as such neither Wardens nor sorcerers need a buff for survivability in group combat.

I thought I already responded to this, sorry.

I was comparing polar to surge because the previous conversation was about the hardened ward nerf or impending nerfs. IMO bouncing between stamsorc and better stamsorc(warden) polar wind is comparable to hardened(burst) and critsurge(hot). I can try to pull numbers next time i play them.....though I think we all know polar is ridiculous with how easy it is to sit at 50khp on any pvp build these days. My main gripe is that sorc and more so stamsorc has absolutely nothing you can do to help allies and a change to power surge would be nice. Its bad enough my group has me swap of stamsorc and one of our other guys swaps off templar for warden off heals.

I actually wonder about comparing a max mag and a max health(pen/sd) mag sorc build. Curious on the scaling of ward one vs the other. (in general wd is 40% more damage per line vs max stat and pen is 80% more damage per line so there could be damage gains)

Well of course a Stam Sorc won't be able to help allies compared to a busted skill that is Polar Wind. The Power Surge morph is already quite good at doing this and that morph on its own was a big reason we used sorcerers as healers in our groups compositions. I think it is silly to use a Polar Warden as the standard.

Though I don't think you need to worry. It seems that ZOS is intent on further exacerbating the existing problem with the ease and potency of group passive healing as we see with the past two updates to Intensive Mender and Inferno. It's just a matter of time until they get to every class and change what historically had been single target class heals to become multi-target triple heals. After that I can contemplate whether chewing glass is preferable to playing in Cyrodiil or BGs against organized groups.

Oh I can fully agree. For pvp I just use Polar as a comparison tool since it is simply everything you could need for defense and group heals each button press scaling off of the easiest and most prevalent stat. By no means should every healing skill match it, id rather see polar lose its hot or be cut down a peg.

Really I would rather more skills have some sort of build incentive behind them. Example I gave before was old crit surge incentivizing higher than average crit builds. Right now with the 1s cooldown you are fine with the 19% crit. Give people reasons to not just go down the generic list of stack pen, then wd, then hp, then stam.

Oh yes we could go far into the screaming echo chamber that is trying to limit group heals so they are not out of control. Just watch the zerg surf healers come out of the woodwork crying "how come I can't be at peak efficiency lagging the server spamming effects on 60 pugs."

necro_the_crafter

Benzux wrote: »

Just my personal opinion but Flame Skull is a joke in PvE as well. Horribly clunky to use since day one and somehow even worse to weave than the Warden's Cliff Racer. I've long since come to accept that ZoS isn't going to change the clunkiness of the ability, but hopefully other pain points of the Necromancer can be addressed.

As for tethers, they're decently good in PvE, and I think it's okay to have some abilities that don't get much use in one half of the game or the other (for example, I haven't used or seen anyone use Templar's Piercing Javelin outside of Cyrodiil). It is a bit unfortunate now though that a PvP necro won't have in-class access to Major Prophecy/Savagery without having to slot a nearly useless skill for it. Maybe Shocking Siphon could be changed to function as a fire-and-forget ability targeted at a corpse that then puts an aura around you for the duration, like you suggested, while Detonating Siphon remains the same, as now with Corpseburster, I'm getting quite a bit of mileage out of using it.

The changes to Grave Grasp are going in the right direction, but as others have pointed out and suggested, it needs a bit more to be useful.

I too really like corpsebuster interaction with detonating, even in pvp. Picked up scribing lately and gotta feel for necro again.
Blighted + ulfsilds + goshtly embrace + corpse pop with detonating = 15-20k all aoe damage, sometimes replacing embrace with dawnbreaker to push for some full to zero kills. But yeah the combo is unreliable at best, ulfsild gets consumed if you have to breakfree or roll mid combo, embrace rarely hits 2/3 and almost never 3/3, blastbones still sometimes decides to take a vacation every fifth cast or so. But overall, its fun to fight like that, having basicly a 3 sec setup for big combo - crashing it down and then looking for another window to set everything up, finaly some traces of class identity.

Also, since cc from embrace getting removed I dont understand why we still have to suffer through "each patch appears after 0.333 sec delay". Ability is inline on live with Smash and torchbearer, but you would expect it to be stronger than scribed ability. And Im not sure if it could compete with alternatives after rework. Smash can give you a corpse with class script right at your target, while stun or immobilizie (or both) for you to follow it up. Yes its 0.6 sec to cast BUT you can move while you casting unlike with embrace that itself moves from the point you started the cast. For me its looks like you have to pay for necro twice, once for a class and once for scribing, BUT while scribing just fixes necros a little bit, for classes like sorc or nb its just a free stuff on top of being a decent class. Same thing with class sets, necros class sets are the best in the game, its almost irony, but they fell so essential that you dont really want to run anything else. Things like self-corpse and corpse poping feels like they should've been built in the class and not sourced from class sets.

bladenick

Nethervoid wrote: »

I have realized that with the previous change of moving Veiled Strike to Assassination skill tree from Shadow and now with the Cloak nerf it's near impossible for my Stamina Nightblade to have a reasonable access to the Shadow passive "Shadow Barrier" that gives us Major Resolve. Since every single Shadow ability now costs Magicka and cloak being expensive I cannot keep up my Major Resolve. Therefore I think at least 1 ability morph on the Shadow skill tree should be turned into a Stamina ability. Currently Magicka Nightblades are already stronger and now with the cloak change stamina nightblades simply no longer have enough Magicka resource to even have Major Resolve most of the fight. My suggestion would be to change either Mirage or Phantasmal Escape into a stamina morph so that at least Stamina Nightblades are not completely destroyed after this change.

On a second note: Necromancer needs immediate further buffs. There are 2 major problems with the class that can be fixed as follows:

1) The class has no strong spammable skill. Flaming Skull is a joke. It's maybe OK in PVE i have no idea but in terms of PVP necro needs a very good spammable. So either change Flaming Skull OR even better change Hungry Scythe into an Execute ability. That would be thematic and cool to "reap" low hp people with a scythe. Necro is lacking in the department of "awesome" looking/feeling abilities anyways.

2) Speaking of looking/feeling bad the class has 2 "tether" abilities that are both unreliable and comical to be honest. I don't want to "tether" myself to a corpse. No one is gonna stand in that tether and to REITERATE it LOOKS BAD. So remove the tether element from both Shocking Siphon and Restoring Tether and make them both give benefits on the character itself. A nice example is the new necro set that allows the necro himself to be the corpse which LOOKS and FEELS awesome and that you actually can use these abilities to their full potential this way. I think this should be the standard of these skills. Necro should drain the corpse (maybe a 0.4 second cast time can be put in place here) and the benefit should "stick" on the necro himself.

I had post talking about it so bad to move Surprised attack to Assassin skill line during U43, now we see the consequences, on live server it already make melee DPS NB get different in PVP, now with change of cloak , melee dps NB totally destroyed whatever stem or mag

The major problems for NB is range proc ganker, which zero risk in 40m away, in my understanding it shall not allow go invisible if cast a dot such as poison arrow, but whatever Dev change the cloak , just wondering how to use incap? It clumsy enough, it even worse and unusable without positioning with cloak

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/663280/nb-skill-line-adjustment-is-so-bad-melee-stemnb-goodbye/p1

acastanza_ESO

@ZOS_Kevin could you please confirm if the Azureblight change today also reenabled the damage scaling when used against players? The Ill-considered deletion of this essential piece of set functionality was a key feature of the feedback we provided the last several weeks.
Not reverting the change to make it NPC only is completely unacceptable, it must be allowed to work on players.

LinusMain

Templar's explosive charge still have taunt, noooo

Cominfordatoothbrush

The azureblight rework, still being a nerf at 1-3 targets, I think is probably a fair level if you must rework it. At that level it will be used less but I imagine still be used in PvE. However, the 1 second cooldown should be reconsidered because this will still be quite a substantial nerf if enough people are using it in a trial to outpace the cooldown with their blight seed stacks

Rkindaleft

To me the PTS notes on Azureblight are not very clear, can someone confirm if this iteration of Azureblight means that it's overall a nerf compared to live for 3 targets and less and a buff to live when at 4 targets or more?

garir_komes_molroy

UP necro

ioResult

If ZOS actually wanted to do something to try to curb the unkillable ball groups in Cyrodiil just a little bit and make it a bit more challenging for those who think running in Cyrodiil as a trials group is the pinnacle of PvP, then ZOS only needs to try changing ONE skill in the game and it's morphs.

Change the Skill Description and mechanics for the Sorcerer's Negate Magic ability and its morphs from this:

"Create a globe of magic suppression for 12 seconds, removing and preventing all enemy area of effect abilities from occurring in the area. Enemies within the globe are stunned, while enemy players will be silenced rather than stunned."

To this:

Create a globe of magic suppression for 12 seconds, removing and preventing all enemy area of effect abilities from occurring in the area. Enemies within the globe are stunned, while any enemies that cannot be stunned have their movement speed decreased by 60% for 6 seconds.

It's very simple ZOS. You STOP giving special dispensation to ball groups in Cyrodiil and make them work for it.

If the Negate Magic ability stuns monsters & NPCs then it should also stun players in PvP.

Go ahead ZOS.

EASY change to make during this PTS cycle.

I bet if you did a poll the VAST majority of your player community that goes into PvP would wholeheartedly support this one simple change to this one single class skill.

Credible_Joe

ioResult wrote: »

Create a globe of magic suppression for 12 seconds, removing and preventing all enemy area of effect abilities from occurring in the area. Enemies within the globe are stunned, while any enemies that cannot be stunned have their movement speed decreased by 60% for 6 seconds.

I really like this, but it would need to be telegraphed. At least the damaging morph. An instant ten meter diameter stun + snare + nuke is WAY too strong, even with relatively low damage from Suppression field.

Also, instead of a flat 6 seconds (which can be cleansed), how about a cursed ground effect, like what some undead monsters drop when they die? A snare that refreshes until you leave the affected area would work better for dispersing zergs and denying territory than a hard timer.

Negate has always been obtuse to me; it's the only skill I can think of that treats NPCs and players differently. I feel like it's a choice that was regret, but never addressed, and I think it's appropriate to tune it to the standard other skills are set to.

Tcholl

I do not support this or any change to negates. Sorcs are already an issue, let ZOS deal with Hardened Ward first.

I can't understand this hate against ballgroups, it goes beyond any reasoning imo. To ask buffs for sorcs or any class based on hate is just rich. Let the negate be, geez.

ioResult

Credible_Joe wrote: »

I really like this, but it would need to be telegraphed. At least the damaging morph. An instant ten meter diameter stun + snare + nuke is WAY too strong, even with relatively low damage from Suppression field.

Also, instead of a flat 6 seconds (which can be cleansed), how about a cursed ground effect, like what some undead monsters drop when they die? A snare that refreshes until you leave the affected area would work better for dispersing zergs and denying territory than a hard timer.

Negate has always been obtuse to me; it's the only skill I can think of that treats NPCs and players differently. I feel like it's a choice that was regret, but never addressed, and I think it's appropriate to tune it to the standard other skills are set to.

I really, really like that idea Joe! A cursed ground effect like the Ra-Netu undead drop outside Sentinel in Alik'r Desert!

ZOS could change Suppression Field so it universally lays down this cursed ground effect and is an area of Silencing.

Aldoss

Tcholl wrote: »

I do not support this or any change to negates. Sorcs are already an issue, let ZOS deal with Hardened Ward first.

I can't understand this hate against ballgroups, it goes beyond any reasoning imo. To ask buffs for sorcs or any class based on hate is just rich. Let the negate be, geez.

What's hard to understand about a scenario where a small group of players ruin the fun for the majority?

It's actually really simple.

ArctosCethlenn

ioResult wrote: »

Create a globe of magic suppression for 12 seconds, removing and preventing all enemy area of effect abilities from occurring in the area. Enemies within the globe are stunned, while any enemies that cannot be stunned have their movement speed decreased by 60% for 6 seconds.

Making negate stun players in the area instead of silencing them would be a nerf since they'd just break free and be cc immune like from any stun, and you removed the silence. Plus balls all wear treaders so adding a slow to negate does nothing. Even if you kept the silence, it just combines stun and silence into one button, congrats you buffed ball groups, they all run multiple negates.

Turtle_Bot

Credible_Joe wrote: »

ioResult wrote: »

Create a globe of magic suppression for 12 seconds, removing and preventing all enemy area of effect abilities from occurring in the area. Enemies within the globe are stunned, while any enemies that cannot be stunned have their movement speed decreased by 60% for 6 seconds.

I really like this, but it would need to be telegraphed. At least the damaging morph. An instant ten meter diameter stun + snare + nuke is WAY too strong, even with relatively low damage from Suppression field.

Also, instead of a flat 6 seconds (which can be cleansed), how about a cursed ground effect, like what some undead monsters drop when they die? A snare that refreshes until you leave the affected area would work better for dispersing zergs and denying territory than a hard timer.

Negate has always been obtuse to me; it's the only skill I can think of that treats NPCs and players differently. I feel like it's a choice that was regret, but never addressed, and I think it's appropriate to tune it to the standard other skills are set to.

I struggle to see how negate is a "nuke", it's DoT is pitiful at best (so much so that it doesn't get used in PvE since atro is just objectively better, both for damage and utility). Ranged AoE continuous stun/silence + snare is very strong though, so would need something. The main thing if it needs to be telegraphed, is don't make it a channel or cast time, that would completely kill the skill even more than it already is (see trample scribing skill).

I'd also like to see silence reworked to be silence + fatigue, so it affects both mag and stam abilities (but doesn't affect core combat such as block, dodge, sprint, crouch, etc.). It's one of the things holding negate back, groups can just move through it spamming vigor and spiked shield (undaunted stamina shield skill), completely ignoring the negate unless there is insane incoming pressure (pre-deletion azureblight combined with siege + bombs + other incoming damage).

ArctosCethlenn

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I'd also like to see silence reworked to be silence + fatigue, so it affects both mag and stam abilities (but doesn't affect core combat such as block, dodge, sprint, crouch, etc.). It's one of the things holding negate back, groups can just move through it spamming vigor and spiked shield (undaunted stamina shield skill), completely ignoring the negate unless there is insane incoming pressure (pre-deletion azureblight combined with siege + bombs + other incoming damage).

I'd agree that a fatigue debuff to block active stamina skills but not break free/dodge/block is a good idea, but put it on nova or consuming darkness rather than just making negate even stronger. Both of those skills have fallen off hard, darkness moreso than nova but even nova's pretty sad now; give players a reason to slot them again.

Turtle_Bot

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I'd also like to see silence reworked to be silence + fatigue, so it affects both mag and stam abilities (but doesn't affect core combat such as block, dodge, sprint, crouch, etc.). It's one of the things holding negate back, groups can just move through it spamming vigor and spiked shield (undaunted stamina shield skill), completely ignoring the negate unless there is insane incoming pressure (pre-deletion azureblight combined with siege + bombs + other incoming damage).

I'd agree that a fatigue debuff to block active stamina skills but not break free/dodge/block is a good idea, but put it on nova or consuming darkness rather than just making negate even stronger. Both of those skills have fallen off hard, darkness moreso than nova but even nova's pretty sad now; give players a reason to slot them again.

Main reason I suggested to give it to negate was that negate is already sorcerers "niche" in terms of ultimate abilities (as per ZOS own comments regarding sorcerer).

Nova and consuming darkness definitely need buffing, but I would buff those abilities with something more suited to the class themes, e.g.:

Nova:
Both morphs now inflict a blind effect causing enemies affected to miss their single target attacks. 1 morph grants evasion + protection to allies within its AoE, the other has significantly increased damage and inflicts a stacking burn status every 2 seconds

Consuming darkness:
Both morphs grant invisibility to the caster. 1 morph follows the caster around (like eye of storm) and grants some new shadow buff with synergy for allies to go invis, other morph has increased damage and inflicts a shadow debuff on enemies, increasing their damage taken by NB abilities (15% against monsters, 5% against players, or something similar) while standing in the AoE. Radius is also increased to 10m up from it's current 5m radius.

These are just hypotheticals, but they would suit the themes of those abilities better than trying to make those abilities a copy/paste of negate, but against stamina.

Tcholl

Aldoss wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

I do not support this or any change to negates. Sorcs are already an issue, let ZOS deal with Hardened Ward first.

I can't understand this hate against ballgroups, it goes beyond any reasoning imo. To ask buffs for sorcs or any class based on hate is just rich. Let the negate be, geez.

What's hard to understand about a scenario where a small group of players ruin the fun for the majority?

It's actually really simple.

So, to defend a duo in a solo bg queue, you say ppl should play in groups in mmos. However, when the group is bigger than yours, they are ruining the fun?

With all due respect, saying ppl should play in group in mmos should include every type of group.

ESO PvP is big enough for everyone to pick his/her preferred fights.

Theist_VII

Tcholl wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

I do not support this or any change to negates. Sorcs are already an issue, let ZOS deal with Hardened Ward first.

I can't understand this hate against ballgroups, it goes beyond any reasoning imo. To ask buffs for sorcs or any class based on hate is just rich. Let the negate be, geez.

What's hard to understand about a scenario where a small group of players ruin the fun for the majority?

It's actually really simple.

With all due respect, saying ppl should play in group in mmos should include every type of group.

ESO PvP is big enough for everyone to pick his/her preferred fights.

It’s actually not, when the population caps were much larger, you would be able to find small scale encounters as a new player within the daily quest towns before they became faction pit-stops.

They effectively killed that experience with flags in towns, and we tried to hold onto it with Cheydinhal and Chorrol but people fell off.

We had towns for beginners, Cyrodiil zerging for intermediates, and Imperial City for veterans, it was absolute perfection.

Most positive experiences people have with ESO are before flags hit the Imperial City and Cyrodiil towns, the fact that people lingered for so long afterwards is testimony of how great of an experience that truly was. People still chase that nostalgia.

necro_the_crafter

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

ArctosCethlenn wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

I'd also like to see silence reworked to be silence + fatigue, so it affects both mag and stam abilities (but doesn't affect core combat such as block, dodge, sprint, crouch, etc.). It's one of the things holding negate back, groups can just move through it spamming vigor and spiked shield (undaunted stamina shield skill), completely ignoring the negate unless there is insane incoming pressure (pre-deletion azureblight combined with siege + bombs + other incoming damage).

I'd agree that a fatigue debuff to block active stamina skills but not break free/dodge/block is a good idea, but put it on nova or consuming darkness rather than just making negate even stronger. Both of those skills have fallen off hard, darkness moreso than nova but even nova's pretty sad now; give players a reason to slot them again.

Main reason I suggested to give it to negate was that negate is already sorcerers "niche" in terms of ultimate abilities (as per ZOS own comments regarding sorcerer).

Nova and consuming darkness definitely need buffing, but I would buff those abilities with something more suited to the class themes, e.g.:

Nova:
Both morphs now inflict a blind effect causing enemies affected to miss their single target attacks. 1 morph grants evasion + protection to allies within its AoE, the other has significantly increased damage and inflicts a stacking burn status every 2 seconds

Consuming darkness:
Both morphs grant invisibility to the caster. 1 morph follows the caster around (like eye of storm) and grants some new shadow buff with synergy for allies to go invis, other morph has increased damage and inflicts a shadow debuff on enemies, increasing their damage taken by NB abilities (15% against monsters, 5% against players, or something similar) while standing in the AoE. Radius is also increased to 10m up from it's current 5m radius.

These are just hypotheticals, but they would suit the themes of those abilities better than trying to make those abilities a copy/paste of negate, but against stamina.

I miss the time when big group ults were actually strong. Sad that powercreep got them. In vSO stacking nova and veil to survive through damage wined a hardmode clear for my guild back then. Right now you simply cant have that moments.
I expected all of thouse ultis to recieve their unique buff, same as they did with psijik order passive - preparation, that used to be major prot when it was a 30% and after a major buffs squish they made it uniqe 30%. Nova and Veil are better off being 20% uniqe buffs, since Majr prot and Major main is super ez to sourse from itemsets, and on much higher uptimes.

Major_Toughness

Hardened Ward still has heal. How dead do you want Cyrodiil to become before you make a meaningful nerf to Sorcerer?

It is already not locking in any campaign on prime time at weekends, when both campaigns used to lock.
If nothing is done soon, you won't have a PvP playerbase left.

Aldoss

Tcholl wrote: »

Aldoss wrote: »

Tcholl wrote: »

I do not support this or any change to negates. Sorcs are already an issue, let ZOS deal with Hardened Ward first.

I can't understand this hate against ballgroups, it goes beyond any reasoning imo. To ask buffs for sorcs or any class based on hate is just rich. Let the negate be, geez.

What's hard to understand about a scenario where a small group of players ruin the fun for the majority?

It's actually really simple.

So, to defend a duo in a solo bg queue, you say ppl should play in groups in mmos. However, when the group is bigger than yours, they are ruining the fun?

With all due respect, saying ppl should play in group in mmos should include every type of group.

ESO PvP is big enough for everyone to pick his/her preferred fights.

I'll answer because you quoted me, but only to say that it's blatantly clear that you didn't read my argument, hence why you're strawmanning here.

I am not against groups of any size. I'm not calling for ZOS to get rid of grouping, nor am I asking ZOS to fracture Cyro into a solo only version and a group version (this sounds familiar...). I'm not against being outnumbered.

The outright oppression that is caused by a ball group is completely different from that of a regular group or a zerg and that oppression is not only felt by the players that are either too ignorant to understand what's happening or just foolish and get caught in the ball groups crosshairs, but also by every other person in the Cyro server when the groups appear.

This argument is the exact same argument as to why I'm calling on ZOS to have a combined solo and duo queue and to leave out the 4's. In the BG setting, premade 4's are almost always oppressive to the rest of the lobby. The difference between a premade 4 and a ball group is that a 4-man cannot outright be unkillable. 4-mans also don't cause server wide lag.

Just like you can "feel" when the Hammer comes out, you can feel when there are ball groups. They not only affect the enjoyment of the immediate players around them, but also everyone else on the server.

Ball group behavior only exists because of a very specific few choices that have been made by ZOS over the years. In their attempt to create sets and mechanics that work in the PvE trial setting, coupled by their neglect as to how those mechanics could be taken to outright extremes in the PvP setting, ZOS created the ball group.

I'm not against people wanting to coordinate their groups, but if you're attempting to argue that there is nothing wrong with 12 people stacking on one pixel, who cannot be immobilized, who have an effective hp of 70-100k, who have 10-20k per tick in hots, and whose behavior is well known to cause lag spikes and server wide instability is somehow "okay", then I agree to disagree.

Tcholl

Well, my message was modded because i stated the obvious here, which is sad, but one can see what I mean by the other messages.

Big groups will still be there now and in the future, whether you like it or not. I cannot say the same about groups mixed on solo queues.

Oh, you were the one that quoted me at first.

necro_the_crafter

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665178/gls-still-needs-a-lot-of-work#latest

Thanks for another moment of frustration.

A lot that I want to say is already in above thread, I just want to add that necros getting yet another nerf in PvP. How long are you guys gonna continue to methodicly deconstruct this class? Are you having a plan to make it literaly the worst PvP class of ESO? How on earth Ghostly Embrace connot have cc when all of similar class skills have one?

Making step forward with timers and buff improves, and then setting class two steps behind with changes that cannot be really justified.

Zormac

So, are we all just ignoring that Templar still has a useless taunt on the explosive charge that will ruin synergy with sets that act on "Blink, Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability" like Crusader, or even just magplars who want to use a gap closer?

Putting a taunt on that skill won't save Templar from being an abysmal tank. It will instead only ruin the day for DPS Templars. It sucks that this is being completely overlooked.

YandereGirlfriend

Zormac wrote: »

So, are we all just ignoring that Templar still has a useless taunt on the explosive charge that will ruin synergy with sets that act on "Blink, Charge, Leap, Teleport, or Pull ability" like Crusader, or even just magplars who want to use a gap closer?

Putting a taunt on that skill won't save Templar from being an abysmal tank. It will instead only ruin the day for DPS Templars. It sucks that this is being completely overlooked.

Yeah, there's no reason why BOTH of the Charge morphs need to have the taunt. Explosive would be a good choice to not have that added.

Tyrion87

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I posted this in the Grimoire Focus thread, but I'll mention it here too.

Thank you for changing this to permanent pets, it is a lot more intuitive and makes no pet sorc a little bit more competitive.

That said, you completely forgot the Class Signature Script for Sorcerer, it still gives healing if you have a temporary pet like Storm Atronach instead of aoe shock damage. Please correct this before live. It makes no sense that the passive, and class set were updated for calculated reasons you listed above, only to disregard the class specific signature script that functions parallel to them.

Was the sorcerer class signature script fixed or did they leave yet another thing incomplete and in unfinished state?

BasP

I realize that this feedback is far too late for U44, but I just noticed that Spear Shards is underpowered at the moment in comparison to the Necromancer's Boneyard. It would be great if Shards, and by extension its morphs, would be buffed in a future patch.

From a mechanical standpoint Spear Shards is pretty similar to Boneyard: both skills cost 2970 Magicka, deal the same DPS in an area over 10 seconds and have a synergy. On top of that, however, Boneyard's damage is increased by 30% when a corpse is consumed (which happens most of the time) and the skill applies Minor Vulnerability.

Hence, I believe that a debuff could be added to Spear Shards as well. It could be a unique debuff similar to Engulfing Flames that makes affected enemies take up to 6% more Magic Damage, for example, or perhaps something like Breach. A decent unique effect would be more fun though.