PTS Update 44 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

bladenick

MincMincMinc wrote: »

Too bad Nightblades are complaining about every aspect of the cloak change. When the recovery cut is leaps and bounds the worst aspect. Having a cut means your sustain is going to become random. Say if you have 2k recovery, under normal combat gcd weaving your cloak may cost you the flat activation cost.... or randomly depending on when the tick lands may cost you an additional 2k.

If zos plans on changing the tickrate of recovery much like they did with the sprint cost ticks, this may be far less of a problem. (This would also help sustain desync issues that most people dont notice)

---

Regardless I would rather see no cut at all and an adjusted skill cost scheme. If players can still get their recovery, this means they may CHOOSE to build into countering the reoccurring/ramping cost. If someone wants to drop two damage sets to perma stealth, who cares? Much to the same degree as, if someone wants to slot only speed and sprinting sets just to run around, who cares?

Player CHOICE is one of the most important aspects of why building was so praised in ESO, why not allow it to continue?

You make sense, the change shall never eliminate possibility of playstyle, perm cloak shall possible but you need build for this, on cost of no damage no defend, that the freedom of player and most attractive part of ESO, compared with other mmo

Ratzkifal

Templar Tank

Increasing the duration of Major Protection on Toppling and Explosive charge is good (and arguably necessary) for PvP however this does nothing for PvE tanking. Excuse my rudeness, but was this change made in Tamriel Unlimited, when Templar tanks had no access to a pull of any kind? Making a gapcloser of all things a taunt sounds like someone isn't understanding what tanks are supposed to do in a team - round up all the enemies! That templar tanks of old were using this ability wasn't because they wanted to, it's because that's the only thing they had to make sure all enemies are taunted quickly enough.

And another point that makes me seriously question whatever lead to this decision, the developer comments...

We're attempting to help Templar tanks feel a bit more zealous as they jump into battle by adding a taunt to this ability and its morphs. Since these abilities don't really focus on damage, they've naturally been more beneficial for tanks to run, but didn't do enough to justify the bar slot. The added function of a taunt and extension of Major Protection will give another potential tool for how you wish to lead the charge as a tank, with a more class-appropriate feel as you spread the light anywhere you go.

suggest that this change is intended to "buff" Templar tanks. Templar tanks are in need of a buff, yes. But Templar tanks aren't in a bad spot because they lack a taunt in their kit! Templar tanks are in a bad spot because Templar healers and Dragonknight tanks are doing their job better than them. Buff dragonknight healers in a way that doesn't buff dragonknight tanks and we might see some Templar tank action.

If you want to ask me, a templar tank main, what it would take for me to slot Focused Charge, then don't add a taunt and instead add Major Cowardice in a large area around the target in addition to the longer Major Protection and I would at least think about the skill before ultimately deciding against slotting it because my skill bar is already full with necessary stuff.
If you really want to help Templar tanks, streamline and increase the utility they provide to the group in a way that Templar healers cannot. For example, "when Radiant Ward ends inspire your allies, for every X damage absorbed, you and allies within 28m range gain Y seconds of minor heroism."
Adding a taunt to Focused Charge (and morphs) screams to me that you do not understand the problem. And that's before we get into the issues that arise from PvPers taking their builds into random dungeons or Imperial City boss fights and messing things up for themselves and/or the actual tank because they forgot their charge does something else to monsters than to players.

Skulptro

Hi there!

I have something to say for sun shield. I'm a PvPer.

Sun shield's base tooltip is originally smaller, then scribed shield from Wield Soul, for example. with 44k health and Bastion CP shields are both 7500-ish. So they are way too small. And if you don't run two shields, like sorks previously did, it is a wasted slot. And your max HP doesn't translate to anything, except channeled focus small heal over time. It is a more-less good heal, if you stand in it, but most of the time you just can't do it, due to how fast and mobile other classes are. Long story short: even meh amount of shield requires a tonn of HP, and this tonn of HP doesn't do anything else.

Blazing shield morph. This morph deals damage back, when expires with explosion. And it also provides Minor Maim now, which decreases enemie's damage. May be, instead of decreasing enemie's damage, which translates to shield's backfire, it should provide Major Berserk, for example, like Chains of Devastation do. It is an aggressive morph, not the defensive one.

And shield base cost is TOOOO high, which makes it not a good deal. You basically have to cripple your build to have 45k-ish HP pool, and after that you are left with about 20k max mag for all your expences. And you also have to get good recoveries from somewhere just to be able to add this shield into your rotation. Living Dark has about the same cost, but it lasts for 12 full seconds instead of expiring from enemie's 2 attacks. So, to make any use of that shield you have to basically sacrifice whole your build. Not a good trade off.

My attempt to use it in Cyro against flag guards. Keep in mind, I'm just trying to taste the shield, not to kill them all asap:
https://youtu.be/2gGN2RCBZo4

If this shield's size is ment to be good only in PvE, please, let us know.

Theist_VII

@Skulptro, thanks for the in-game footage of how bad the skill still is come next update. I’ve been trying to bring attention to Sun Shield for quite some time as the skill is absolutely useless in PvP in either morph, and we finally got something, when I saw the week 1 patch notes and saw Sun Shield, there was so much hope and as I read Minor Maim, I realized it was for nothing.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665804/sun-shield-more-like-sun-burn#latest

You can quite literally craft better skills than Sun Shield, and it’s a class skill. On what planet should a universally available skill that any class can use be better than an exclusive class skill?

Why even bind it to the class at that point?

ikillforskooma

This is an update that is difficult for me to keep silent about
I play teso every day, ONLY in Cyrodiil (because I'm already fed up with it) and ONLY with the blade of night
The main ability that I use is shadow, the main ability that I chose this class for is shadow
Do you want to fight? Fight. Don't you want to fight? Go into the shadows and run away. What you're doing with this ability will leave me with a pool of resources just to escape. What happens if I'm discovered? Do I stupidly have no magic left to do anything?
You give wizards the opportunity to stack shields and disperse the pool of magic to 55 thousand, give them an excellent opportunity to distill stamina into magic, give a burst of damage, give a streak that will stan and cause damage
What does the blade of night have? Invisibility? And of course, the "very large" damage that all the tanks are screaming about, tanks ganked by the blade of night.
Only these tanks absolutely do not take into account the fact that the blade of night is able to inflict damage by investing all points in magic, standing under the shadow stone and remaining with 22 thousand lives without resists
The blade of the night is already a weak class, without shields, without a stan, without the ability to quickly move away from the enemy or into the enemy
All we have is shadow and crit, which make us good gankers and good bombers. And you decided to break everything.
If Update 44 comes out with a change in the ability to fade into the shadows, I will no longer play this game. Because all I value here is my blade of the night.
Why don't you do anything with ball groups? Why don't you create a separate server where, for example, people couldn't gather into huge unkillable balls that spoil everything every night in Cyrodiil?
No, you better delete the blade of Night, the only class that is capable of either gank or blow up a very fat target, being not an emperor.
I will immediately speak out about the nerf of the nightmare set. Why create such a long delay? Why didn't the winterborn set get *** up? My bomber and my ganker both use a nightmare just because there is no delay in it
Half of all Cyrodiil night blades use it. Better take away the sound of the *** glass that pisses everyone off so terribly. A delay of 1.3 seconds with the miat pvp addon running creates a sea of conditions for evasion. The set can be thrown in the trash. You have added a new mythic saint and seducer. Is it okay that he, in synergy with miat pvp, immediately warns the enemy that the blade of night is sneaking around? You added the Sentinel set - great, you added the detection potion, great, but why the hell are you taking away the Nightblade's skill set without delay and the basic ability of the shadow?
I know at least 20 people who use builds similar to mine to somehow kill the dragon knight or sork or the same guardian with his terribly painful ult
I'm dying of a sneeze - that's the price for my damage. Its enough.
I don't want passionate kisses with strong men for half an hour in a tank assembly
I want to blow up and gank people. These are two great styles of play. I bought all the add-ons and invested a lot of money in this game. Patch 44 will be the last straw for me. No more shopping and no more playing. There are a lot more interesting pvp games much better than this one. Only the possibility of being an invisible Khajiit ganker holds me back.

Turtle_Bot

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

General Issues w/ Necromancer in its Current PTS State

Every class in ESO seems to have a distinct identity. When you think of Sorcerers, for instance, mobility immediately comes to mind. They're like lightning—here one moment, gone the next—zooming across the battlefield. Dragonknights (DKs), on the other hand, evoke wars of attrition. They take a hit to give a hit and will likely be the last ones standing.

Nightblades are the stealthy assassins of the game, boasting the highest burst potential, like ninjas lurking in the shadows. Nuff said. Templars? They’re the textbook paladins—masters of healing, purging, and even executing enemies when the time is right. Wardens excel at wearing opponents down with an array of debuffs, snares, roots, and stuns, fitting perfectly into the "controller" archetype.

Arcanists are all about big AoE damage. Their beam-focused playstyle seems to have been designed with the popular one-bar heavy attack builds for solo players in mind. ZOS clearly crafted this class from an identity that developed organically within the game. To me, they’re easily the best out-of-the-box class for solo play. In addition to their impressive damage, Arcanists are likely the toughest class to kill, even surpassing DKs, thanks to their abundance of buffs and shields.

And then there’s the Necromancer.

Necromancers have corpses. But the corpses feel like they add nothing special to gameplay, often coming across as unnecessary complexity for the sake of complexity.

At one point, Necromancers boasted the best damage-oriented ult in the game, and they excelled at generating ult quickly. However, after nerfs to major vulnerability, they lost their edge, and nothing was introduced to fill that gap. In PvP, the "Harmony" synergy at least gave them a niche playstyle as bombers with self-activated synergies, but even that was taken away. Now, we’re left with a class that feels like it lacks a true identity. Their defining mechanic—corpses—is poorly implemented and extremely unrewarding.

When new features are introduced, like class mastery scripts, and the perk they offer is an extra corpse, I usually just roll my eyes. For a class like Arcanist, an extra Crux would be amazing. For a Necromancer, an extra corpse probably amounts to a couple more HoT ticks. Maybe useful for a tank or healer, but there's no real payoff for damage dealers.

I implore the developers to settle on a clear vision for the Necromancer's identity. Please devise ways to make corpses truly valuable regardless of what role a player chooses to fulfill—similar to how Crux benefits Arcanists. And finally, please ensure that Necromancers are competitive in both PvE and PvP, because let's face it, nobody is hitting other players with that siphon for more than a second or 2.

In all honesty, Necromancer should have been the "summoner" class when it was first introduced. Sure sorcs had daedric beasts (pets), but realistically sorc was first and foremost, the mage class (until ZOS shoehorned it into being the pet class by nerfing the mage aspect into the ground and overbuffing the pets).

When people think of necromancers, they think of raising the dead and buffing their army/debuffing/debilitating their enemies to allow their army of undead to overwhelm them.

When people think of Sorcerers they think of mages with big flashy spells that deal a lot of damage, supported with Arcane skills that provide buffs.

Somehow ZOS has managed to combine those 2 themes into a strained, conflicting mix in sorcerer that has caused no end of issues for sorcerer as well as left no space for necro to be what it's supposed to be. It's sad really, because it's probably too late now to fix it because that would require giving out class change tokens to players who like pet sorcs so they can continue to play as a summoner without having to completely restart on a new character and we all know that ain't happening...

Faulgor

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

General Issues w/ Necromancer in its Current PTS State

Every class in ESO seems to have a distinct identity. When you think of Sorcerers, for instance, mobility immediately comes to mind. They're like lightning—here one moment, gone the next—zooming across the battlefield. Dragonknights (DKs), on the other hand, evoke wars of attrition. They take a hit to give a hit and will likely be the last ones standing.

Nightblades are the stealthy assassins of the game, boasting the highest burst potential, like ninjas lurking in the shadows. Nuff said. Templars? They’re the textbook paladins—masters of healing, purging, and even executing enemies when the time is right. Wardens excel at wearing opponents down with an array of debuffs, snares, roots, and stuns, fitting perfectly into the "controller" archetype.

Arcanists are all about big AoE damage. Their beam-focused playstyle seems to have been designed with the popular one-bar heavy attack builds for solo players in mind. ZOS clearly crafted this class from an identity that developed organically within the game. To me, they’re easily the best out-of-the-box class for solo play. In addition to their impressive damage, Arcanists are likely the toughest class to kill, even surpassing DKs, thanks to their abundance of buffs and shields.

And then there’s the Necromancer.

Necromancers have corpses. But the corpses feel like they add nothing special to gameplay, often coming across as unnecessary complexity for the sake of complexity.

At one point, Necromancers boasted the best damage-oriented ult in the game, and they excelled at generating ult quickly. However, after nerfs to major vulnerability, they lost their edge, and nothing was introduced to fill that gap. In PvP, the "Harmony" synergy at least gave them a niche playstyle as bombers with self-activated synergies, but even that was taken away. Now, we’re left with a class that feels like it lacks a true identity. Their defining mechanic—corpses—is poorly implemented and extremely unrewarding.

When new features are introduced, like class mastery scripts, and the perk they offer is an extra corpse, I usually just roll my eyes. For a class like Arcanist, an extra Crux would be amazing. For a Necromancer, an extra corpse probably amounts to a couple more HoT ticks. Maybe useful for a tank or healer, but there's no real payoff for damage dealers.

I implore the developers to settle on a clear vision for the Necromancer's identity. Please devise ways to make corpses truly valuable regardless of what role a player chooses to fulfill—similar to how Crux benefits Arcanists. And finally, please ensure that Necromancers are competitive in both PvE and PvP, because let's face it, nobody is hitting other players with that siphon for more than a second or 2.

In all honesty, Necromancer should have been the "summoner" class when it was first introduced. Sure sorcs had daedric beasts (pets), but realistically sorc was first and foremost, the mage class (until ZOS shoehorned it into being the pet class by nerfing the mage aspect into the ground and overbuffing the pets).

When people think of necromancers, they think of raising the dead and buffing their army/debuffing/debilitating their enemies to allow their army of undead to overwhelm them.

When people think of Sorcerers they think of mages with big flashy spells that deal a lot of damage, supported with Arcane skills that provide buffs.

Somehow ZOS has managed to combine those 2 themes into a strained, conflicting mix in sorcerer that has caused no end of issues for sorcerer as well as left no space for necro to be what it's supposed to be. It's sad really, because it's probably too late now to fix it because that would require giving out class change tokens to players who like pet sorcs so they can continue to play as a summoner without having to completely restart on a new character and we all know that ain't happening...

Historically, Sorcerers have been Conjurors in TES. Giving them "pets" is not really unexpected.
Necromancer would also make use of Conjuration magic, but instead of summoning their minions, they are resurecting them.

That's a good enough destinction to have different gameplay for Sorcerers and Necromancers. The problem is that ZOS only implemented Necros half-heartedly. Instead of using the corpse mechanic to resurrect ... anything, Necromancers still summon all their minions, and then use their corpses to, I don't even know. There are virtually no satisfying offensive corpse consuming skills.

Short of overhauling the whole class in this respect, I think a good place to start would be to change Boneyard to summon a Blastbones when it consumes a corpse, instead of +30% DoT damage, which doesn't get anyone excited.

propertyOfUndefined

Faulgor wrote: »

Short of overhauling the whole class in this respect, I think a good place to start would be to change Boneyard to summon a Blastbones when it consumes a corpse, instead of +30% DoT damage, which doesn't get anyone excited.

That is exactly what I mean! A change like that would really start to make the class come to life. Necromancers would be able to double-up on their blastbones by using corpses offensively, and in a way that would work in a PVP environment.

• Cast blighted blastbones
• Cast Boneyard over a corpse to spawn a second blighted blastbones
• Have 2 blastbones attack your target (near) simultaneously

A change like that would even work with the GLS morph:

• Cast GLS to get a 15% boost to class damage
• Cast Boneyard over a corpse to spawn a blighted blastbones
• Have the blastbones attack your target with a 15% damage boost

It makes so much sense to me. Suddenly corpses are useful to a damage dealing necromancer, and anything that spawns an extra corpse easily translates to more damage.

Low on health? Cast mortal coil on it instead!

CameraBeardThePirate

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Short of overhauling the whole class in this respect, I think a good place to start would be to change Boneyard to summon a Blastbones when it consumes a corpse, instead of +30% DoT damage, which doesn't get anyone excited.

That is exactly what I mean! A change like that would really start to make the class come to life. Necromancers would be able to double-up on their blastbones by using corpses offensively, and in a way that would work in a PVP environment.

• Cast blighted blastbones
• Cast Boneyard over a corpse to spawn a second blighted blastbones
• Have 2 blastbones attack your target (near) simultaneously

A change like that would even work with the GLS morph:

• Cast GLS to get a 15% boost to class damage
• Cast Boneyard over a corpse to spawn a blighted blastbones
• Have the blastbones attack your target with a 15% damage boost

It makes so much sense to me. Suddenly corpses are useful to a damage dealing necromancer, and anything that spawns an extra corpse easily translates to more damage.

This. I maintain the opinion that Animate Blastbones is the most Necro-ey ability in their kit. When it actually works, it feels amazing! Who doesn't want to take a pile of corpses and turn them into minions to destroy their enemies?

The problem with that ability of course being the fact that you can't tell the Blastbones where to go or what to target.

Necro's kit should lean into this feeling though. If there's a Necro on the other team, you should be afraid of corpses. Corpseburster was a step in the right direction, but tying it to a set was sort of a slap in the face when it should honestly be an inherent part of Necros kit (tied to GLS, for example).

Corpses in their current iteration only serve to make the class less effective overhaul. They're just an extra hoop you have to jump through to even begin to compete with other classes.

Tcholl

Regarding the cloak change, I understand the comments stating the skill usage and how toggle mech is bad for many players.

The other comments about being in a bad situation if they are discovered are just what is given reason to the nerf (maybe just not in the best way).

You already have a massive advantage when coming out of cloak to strike someone who is there for everyone to see. Also, you build to hit as hard as you can to kill the enemy as quickly as possible and you do not want to be in a bad spot if the enemy survives? You should be in a fragile spot if you do not get the kill. Simple as that. Right now, it is a matter of spamming cloak and come back to shoot or attack by the back invisi again.

Those type of comments will not help ZOS to find a middle ground here. Try to explain the reason the skill will become clumsy or will not work properly and you will have a better shot on changing it before comes live.

necro_the_crafter

Thanks for slapping more damage into necro, I like the direction this is going, however technical part of a class also should be addressed. Ghostly embrace is still quite hard to control in dynamic enviroments due to its aoe positioning. I dont know if it can be adjusted over the course of pts, but please consider this:



This incredibly detailed diagram that was developed by Worm's Institute of Necromancy best scientist shows that necromancers have a poor control over their newfound damage ability, and by examining it found out that its a nice chance for all of the necros out there to get an ability that allows precise corpse placement in a place were we want them to be, as well as making landing damage portion more satisfying. However, our scientist isnt a truth in the last instance, they just here to convey a message about overall clunkiness of necromancers technical part.

Playing necro sometimes feels like you hammering a screw into a plank with a chainsaw, while other kids have all the right tools. With few more buffs like this it wouldnt be about numbers anymore, it would be about issues on mechanical part that was with the class since day 1 of Elseweyr.

Wuuffyy

I have a thread for this in the general PTS thread, however- the Pyrebrand nerf is absolutely overkill.

This set has been thrown into oblivion between the fact it no longer successfully competes in any area (hybrid set, high damage like rele or zaan, ease of use like sheer venom or 'marse.' helm, etc) and the copious, highly class-specific grind gatekeeping its volume.

This had to be my favorite set in years; with the class set concept being one of the best off the top-of-my-head to restore us from the current like of class identity (to the point where every class 'plays the same' plus/minus a few skills; nearly the same sets).

All I'm asking, on behalf of all players that have wanted/will want to make real use of any class sets now or in posterior, please reverse SOME portion of the otherwise-egregious 'nerf' on this set before PTS cycle end.

///

Again, I have suggestions, additional feedback, and comparisons here at- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665914/class-set-discussion-pyrebrand/

Tcholl

Wuuffyy wrote: »

I have a thread for this in the general PTS thread, however- the Pyrebrand nerf is absolutely overkill.

This set has been thrown into oblivion between the fact it no longer successfully competes in any area (hybrid set, high damage like rele or zaan, ease of use like sheer venom or 'marse.' helm, etc) and the copious, highly class-specific grind gatekeeping its volume.

This had to be my favorite set in years; with the class set concept being one of the best off the top-of-my-head to restore us from the current like of class identity (to the point where every class 'plays the same' plus/minus a few skills; nearly the same sets).

All I'm asking, on behalf of all players that have wanted/will want to make real use of any class sets now or in posterior, please reverse SOME portion of the otherwise-egregious 'nerf' on this set before PTS cycle end.

///

Again, I have suggestions, additional feedback, and comparisons here at- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/665914/class-set-discussion-pyrebrand/

As a DK main, the only good news for me is that I have waited to farm Pyrebrand, as I hate the IA. Not going there anymore. The bad news is that Pyrebrand seemed to finally give some damage back to DKs in PvP (seemed because I have not tried) and now we are back to boring DK.

acastanza_ESO

The Hardened Ward nerf really, really hurts Sorc Tanks in PVE. I'd be fine if this was a "while under the effect of battle spirit" change though. Please, please, please revert this change, but instead half the heal while under the effect of battlespirit.

YandereGirlfriend

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

The Hardened Ward nerf really, really hurts Sorc Tanks in PVE. I'd be fine if this was a "while under the effect of battle spirit" change though. Please, please, please revert this change, but instead half the heal while under the effect of battlespirit.

Clannfear Buddy has entered the chat.

ikillforskooma

Frostmear wrote: »

deadpool3431 wrote: »

The cloak nerf is bad, and it is 100% a nerf because the cost is still high and now theres no mag recovery on a class and playstyle with basically zero recovery already. Detect pots are still bugged. Miats addon can still notify you of ranged damage from stealth in pvp and it can still give someone my general location, haunting curse can stick to anything even if you're not detected and people still use the red dot exploit and you want to neft stealth? I know many people in pvp want stealth gone so why not just make it official and eliminate it entirely. I need to move on from this game anyway. I've spent too much money playing this game to have an entire playstyle eliminated because someone wants it to be more "spooky" and pve friendly. You make wardens unkillable with high damage, you make magsorcs unkillable with extremely overtuned high damage unlimited shields unlimited healing, DK can be unkillable with 10k weapon damage, Arcanist is unkillable with infinite recovery, necro is still nerfed into the ground for no reason(poor necro mains truly sorry tbh). Ganker nb is literally the only thing standing against the tank meta yall created and now with the snap of a finger and one bad idea a whole playstyle is wiped from the game. I do not want to go light attack people to death or play bouncy-sorc and be carried by shields. Thanks but no thanks.

"no mag recovery on a class and playstyle with basically zero recovery already."
This is quite literally a skill issue, Nightblade has one of the better sustains in the game of all the classes via siphoning strikes, refreshing path, executioner passive, and refreshing shadows passive.

" Ganker nb is literally the only thing standing against the tank meta yall created and now with the snap of a finger and one bad idea a whole playstyle is wiped from the game"
No, Ganker NB is literally the main thing that continues to cause this tank meta, when a large portion of Cyrodiil is gankblades with over tuned damage and can have the best form of mitigation & defense known as cloak, everyone builds tanky to avoid being 1 shot by the absurd amount of gankblades. The less gankers in Cyrodiil the healthier the PVP will be overall. Not saying NB needs to be gutted, but this class is far overtuned and this cloak nerf was a long time coming. This change should go through but we know it won't since the game has a massive NB population who somehow think the class is in a bad spot and will cry anytime ZOS throws a justified nerf hammer at it.
I fully expect this cloak nerf to be changed multiple times in this PTS cycle to appeal to the Crying NB's who are incapable of adapting and not spamming cloak 24/7.

And here is the notorious clay miner, who likes to fight a duel for hours
Thanks, but no
As I understand it, you've never played for the NB yourself and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Tank assemblies are not built because of the NBs ganks, they are built in order to play in a group (initially having an advantage in the zerg)
You say we're whining, but in the end you're whining.
Those players who are just not able to adapt
You have pvp miat, detection potion, detection abilities, I have 22k hp, 10k resists, you have 40k hp and 30k resists
If you're so tired of my ganks, find and kill, what's the problem, lol?
But instead, people like you prefer to go to the server and whine about how painful you were gank by a puny nightblade
Lol I came to your page
All you do is celebrate the Nightblade nerf
And you write almost every blade to adapt
Adapt to what? Towards the total destruction of the class? You yourself are probably playing as a templar, either a dk or a guardian
Make your life easier, create a blade of the night and feel the taste of gank
It's the exact same playstyle, just with medium armor and a very fragile body
Tank for group play
Ganker and bomber for loners, introverts, of which there are a great many in this game

Bluestin

What even is Templar now? Low to mediocre damage except when executing, mediocre healing, and now the added bonus of mediocre tanking. I'm surprised the taunt wasn't added to Sun Shield. Templar steady catching strays since update 35.

It reminds me of that line from a parody movie I vaguely remember "We trained him wrong on purpose, as a joke!"

Turtle_Bot

Faulgor wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

General Issues w/ Necromancer in its Current PTS State

Every class in ESO seems to have a distinct identity. When you think of Sorcerers, for instance, mobility immediately comes to mind. They're like lightning—here one moment, gone the next—zooming across the battlefield. Dragonknights (DKs), on the other hand, evoke wars of attrition. They take a hit to give a hit and will likely be the last ones standing.

Nightblades are the stealthy assassins of the game, boasting the highest burst potential, like ninjas lurking in the shadows. Nuff said. Templars? They’re the textbook paladins—masters of healing, purging, and even executing enemies when the time is right. Wardens excel at wearing opponents down with an array of debuffs, snares, roots, and stuns, fitting perfectly into the "controller" archetype.

Arcanists are all about big AoE damage. Their beam-focused playstyle seems to have been designed with the popular one-bar heavy attack builds for solo players in mind. ZOS clearly crafted this class from an identity that developed organically within the game. To me, they’re easily the best out-of-the-box class for solo play. In addition to their impressive damage, Arcanists are likely the toughest class to kill, even surpassing DKs, thanks to their abundance of buffs and shields.

And then there’s the Necromancer.

Necromancers have corpses. But the corpses feel like they add nothing special to gameplay, often coming across as unnecessary complexity for the sake of complexity.

At one point, Necromancers boasted the best damage-oriented ult in the game, and they excelled at generating ult quickly. However, after nerfs to major vulnerability, they lost their edge, and nothing was introduced to fill that gap. In PvP, the "Harmony" synergy at least gave them a niche playstyle as bombers with self-activated synergies, but even that was taken away. Now, we’re left with a class that feels like it lacks a true identity. Their defining mechanic—corpses—is poorly implemented and extremely unrewarding.

When new features are introduced, like class mastery scripts, and the perk they offer is an extra corpse, I usually just roll my eyes. For a class like Arcanist, an extra Crux would be amazing. For a Necromancer, an extra corpse probably amounts to a couple more HoT ticks. Maybe useful for a tank or healer, but there's no real payoff for damage dealers.

I implore the developers to settle on a clear vision for the Necromancer's identity. Please devise ways to make corpses truly valuable regardless of what role a player chooses to fulfill—similar to how Crux benefits Arcanists. And finally, please ensure that Necromancers are competitive in both PvE and PvP, because let's face it, nobody is hitting other players with that siphon for more than a second or 2.

In all honesty, Necromancer should have been the "summoner" class when it was first introduced. Sure sorcs had daedric beasts (pets), but realistically sorc was first and foremost, the mage class (until ZOS shoehorned it into being the pet class by nerfing the mage aspect into the ground and overbuffing the pets).

When people think of necromancers, they think of raising the dead and buffing their army/debuffing/debilitating their enemies to allow their army of undead to overwhelm them.

When people think of Sorcerers they think of mages with big flashy spells that deal a lot of damage, supported with Arcane skills that provide buffs.

Somehow ZOS has managed to combine those 2 themes into a strained, conflicting mix in sorcerer that has caused no end of issues for sorcerer as well as left no space for necro to be what it's supposed to be. It's sad really, because it's probably too late now to fix it because that would require giving out class change tokens to players who like pet sorcs so they can continue to play as a summoner without having to completely restart on a new character and we all know that ain't happening...

Historically, Sorcerers have been Conjurors in TES. Giving them "pets" is not really unexpected.
Necromancer would also make use of Conjuration magic, but instead of summoning their minions, they are resurecting them.

That's a good enough destinction to have different gameplay for Sorcerers and Necromancers. The problem is that ZOS only implemented Necros half-heartedly. Instead of using the corpse mechanic to resurrect ... anything, Necromancers still summon all their minions, and then use their corpses to, I don't even know. There are virtually no satisfying offensive corpse consuming skills.

Short of overhauling the whole class in this respect, I think a good place to start would be to change Boneyard to summon a Blastbones when it consumes a corpse, instead of +30% DoT damage, which doesn't get anyone excited.

It's true that sorcerers have been conjurors, but they have also mainly been mages where the conjurations are buffs/shields/armor/weapons with occasional pets (familiars), so while not unexpected, sorcerers really were not forced into pets as ZOS had worked them to be was more my point, I do agree with you though.

Agreed, necros were very half hearted in their implementation, which I can only guess was to not tread on the (at the time) recent changes to sorcerer forcing sorcerer into being predominantly a summoner.

Interesting change to boneyard.
Thinking on that change to Boneyard, maybe have it generate 1 corpse every second/2 seconds its active (+ an additional corpse if a target dies inside its AoE), then if you cast GLS or blastbones while standing inside (or near) boneyards AoE, it consumes all corpses inside boneyard's AoE to summon an additional blastbones that launches itself at the nearest target. This boneyard blastbones could have the old stalking modifier based on how many corpses were consumed to summon it.

Would provide more corpse gen (that can be ranged or melee), while giving a very strong burst DPS corpse consuming option (that works with both GLS and BB).

Would probably need some numbers tweaks, but seems an interesting idea that would help tie the kit together a bit more and provide more corpses for the rest of Necros abilities. The corpse gen over time would also help for things like the tethers, since you can tether inside your own boneyard (making tethers a bit more reliable and mobile). Would make a nice combo for the recent IA necro set with detonating siphon. Lay down a boneyard, deto siphon a corpse inside the boneyard each second (which a new one is created each second) proccing the class set, then for a delayed burst you can cast blast bones while inside/near the boneyard as well.

argonian37

Zos. This change to cloak is not just a nerf.is a functional change in a central skill that destroys every playstyle and build in the class except of brawlers. In PVP, Cloak is the main survival and positioning tool for NBs, is the tool that we use for tick for heals and change our position in fights for a class that is squishy, doesnt have good shields, and has clunky ultimates and skills. We need to control when we use the skill, a toggle option is just not reliable in battlefields with ball groups and zergs around.
You can rework skills like mark target for example that nobody uses and use it to give the 10% dmg bonus for pve that you want to add.
If you want to stop the bow gankers, you can add bonuses and rework the benefits of having close melee fights but dont destroy our class because of that, because the OP nature of long range weapons and skills is not a problem that you would solve destroying the functionality of the central skill of NBs and is an issue that exceeds the class.
Please dont let this change continue to the Live server

MincMincMinc

argonian37 wrote: »

Zos. This change to cloak is not just a nerf.is a functional change in a central skill that destroys every playstyle and build in the class except of brawlers. In PVP, Cloak is the main survival and positioning tool for NBs, is the tool that we use for tick for heals and change our position in fights for a class that is squishy, doesnt have good shields, and has clunky ultimates and skills. We need to control when we use the skill, a toggle option is just not reliable in battlefields with ball groups and zergs around.
You can rework skills like mark target for example that nobody uses and use it to give the 10% dmg bonus for pve that you want to add.
If you want to stop the bow gankers, you can add bonuses and rework the benefits of having close melee fights but dont destroy our class because of that, because the OP nature of long range weapons and skills is not a problem that you would solve destroying the functionality of the central skill of NBs and is an issue that exceeds the class.
Please dont let this change continue to the Live server

Please download and try it for yourself on pts. The toggle is fine and plays far more smoothly than old cloak. Itll be far easier to time combos into ganks since you do not need to recast every other gcd.

This doesnt even affect bow gankers, because 90% of the time you are sitting in crouch and would only use cloak for 1-2s during initiation....

necro_the_crafter

Its so funny to see nightblades overreacting to cloack change i cant stop laughing xD

Chill guys, your core concept hasnt been destroyed, it will be fine as a toggle, if anyone had play with vamps sating fury will understand that its not that bad, its easy to toggle in and out of that ability. And its as easy with a new cloack.

Seriously tho, only thing to complain its new cloak mana cost. As ZoS hadnt stated that ability rework was aimed at nerfing nbs ability to stealth mana cost should be adressed, as its is on pts drains mana ~50% faster thanks to recovery disable during toggle.

Now imagine you would've been trated as a necro, leaving healing morph of cloack on, and replacing invis cloack with a plain damage buff that also makes your every third surprise attack an aoe... God I hate GLS.

katorga

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Its so funny to see nightblades overreacting to cloack change i cant stop laughing xD

Chill guys, your core concept hasnt been destroyed, it will be fine as a toggle, if anyone had play with vamps sating fury will understand that its not that bad, its easy to toggle in and out of that ability. And its as easy with a new cloack.

Seriously tho, only thing to complain its new cloak mana cost. As ZoS hadnt stated that ability rework was aimed at nerfing nbs ability to stealth mana cost should be adressed, as its is on pts drains mana ~50% faster thanks to recovery disable during toggle.

Now imagine you would've been trated as a necro, leaving healing morph of cloack on, and replacing invis cloack with a plain damage buff that also makes your every third surprise attack an aoe... God I hate GLS.

To be honest, yeah, they ruined it. ZOS should have gone the 33% increased cost patch like roll dodge and streak.

necro_the_crafter

katorga wrote: »

necro_the_crafter wrote: »

Its so funny to see nightblades overreacting to cloack change i cant stop laughing xD

Chill guys, your core concept hasnt been destroyed, it will be fine as a toggle, if anyone had play with vamps sating fury will understand that its not that bad, its easy to toggle in and out of that ability. And its as easy with a new cloack.

Seriously tho, only thing to complain its new cloak mana cost. As ZoS hadnt stated that ability rework was aimed at nerfing nbs ability to stealth mana cost should be adressed, as its is on pts drains mana ~50% faster thanks to recovery disable during toggle.

Now imagine you would've been trated as a necro, leaving healing morph of cloack on, and replacing invis cloack with a plain damage buff that also makes your every third surprise attack an aoe... God I hate GLS.

To be honest, yeah, they ruined it. ZOS should have gone the 33% increased cost patch like roll dodge and streak.

why exactly it is ruined outside of its cost issues?

Ximiq

Late to the party, had to wait to get access to this forum. Still, I came here to voice my grievance to the potential cloak change. PTS testing was absolutely absurd. Please don't go through with this change...

MincMincMinc

Ximiq wrote: »

Late to the party, had to wait to get access to this forum. Still, I came here to voice my grievance to the potential cloak change. PTS testing was absolutely absurd. Please don't go through with this change...

again, how? It is far more fluid and the QOL improvement was needed.

Aldoss

Ghostly Embrace feedback:

"The second area now applies a Frost Damage over time effect for 5 seconds, similar to Burning Talons or Acrid Spray, rather than Immobilizing enemies."

This is another perfect example of how spreadsheet balancing does not work.

Burning talons does not need to be aimed and fires instantly in its 6m radius around the caster. Acid spray, does need to be aimed, but can reach significantly more targets, given the longer range, fires instantly, and gives the caster the benefit of range.

Ghostly embrace gets neither of these benefits. It's a delayed, directional skill. It doesn't feel fun to use at all and doesn't give you a reward for landing the skill like the 9s delayed burst of shalks does.

If you're going to insist on the animation of ghostly remaining the same, it deserves to be better than the two other similar skills that are infinitely easier to use than it.

bladenick

argonian37 wrote: »

Zos. This change to cloak is not just a nerf.is a functional change in a central skill that destroys every playstyle and build in the class except of brawlers. In PVP, Cloak is the main survival and positioning tool for NBs, is the tool that we use for tick for heals and change our position in fights for a class that is squishy, doesnt have good shields, and has clunky ultimates and skills. We need to control when we use the skill, a toggle option is just not reliable in battlefields with ball groups and zergs around.
You can rework skills like mark target for example that nobody uses and use it to give the 10% dmg bonus for pve that you want to add.
If you want to stop the bow gankers, you can add bonuses and rework the benefits of having close melee fights but dont destroy our class because of that, because the OP nature of long range weapons and skills is not a problem that you would solve destroying the functionality of the central skill of NBs and is an issue that exceeds the class.
Please dont let this change continue to the Live server

ZOS may just want their new 2 side BG vibe, and they don’t have idea how to handle stealth in that fight to death mode, so they lazy engineering, just remove stealth class, regardless how player build and play this class for 10 years, totally not smart

acastanza_ESO

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

The Hardened Ward nerf really, really hurts Sorc Tanks in PVE. I'd be fine if this was a "while under the effect of battle spirit" change though. Please, please, please revert this change, but instead half the heal while under the effect of battlespirit.

Clannfear Buddy has entered the chat.

Being able to drop Clannfear literally doubled the population of Sorc tanks overnight. It's so much better right now. Tanking on Sorc is fun and feels really good.
If the current state of Sorc tank is bringing more people into tanking (I'd argue the numbers show that it is), I'd be very hesitant to nerf it for PVE. That said, definitely needs a nerf for PVP, hence - battlespirit.

Theist_VII

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

The Hardened Ward nerf really, really hurts Sorc Tanks in PVE. I'd be fine if this was a "while under the effect of battle spirit" change though. Please, please, please revert this change, but instead half the heal while under the effect of battlespirit.

Clannfear Buddy has entered the chat.

Being able to drop Clannfear literally doubled the population of Sorc tanks overnight. It's so much better right now. Tanking on Sorc is fun and feels really good.
If the current state of Sorc tank is bringing more people into tanking (I'd argue the numbers show that it is), I'd be very hesitant to nerf it for PVE. That said, definitely needs a nerf for PVP, hence - battlespirit.

It’s the double bar requirement.

I absolutely love the Clannfear and would use it all of the time if I didn’t need to slot it twice.

People are going to realize just how horrible it feels to be so limited on skill slots when that Banner Bearer skill drops and is a necessity.

ioResult

Frostmear wrote: »

No, not a tiny group, everyone who isn't a nightblade wanted this ability toned down. This nerf was a long time coming and will be a good change.

You cry on other threads that 40% of the Cyrodiil population are Nightblades. If over half of them quit ESO or turn off ESO Plus as a result of this unnecessary change to Cloak, you just go have fun running around in Gray Host with no one to fight but the other sweaty tryhards. You can all have fun smacking each other for 25 minutes straight and no one dying (rather than just standing next to each other and not fighting each other even though you're on different factions).

All you're gonna have left in Cyrodiil is you silly sweaties and the ball groups you all avoid like the plague.

Good luck with that.

Oh and in case you think it'd be crazy. All kinds of Nightblades have already started not renewing their ESO Plus over this over-nerf of Cloak. Others are just waiting to see how the skill actually goes live for next patch. ZOS loses money out of this. It's just a matter of how much.