PTS Update 43 - Feedback Thread for Classes & Abilities

TheRedRavenTR

I love how zos has a huge ego and cant revert their bad changes. Sorc shield buff? "Cant revert it in at least 2 years or we will look bad." Did same with undead passive. Warden first pts cycle unneeded nerf and no sorc or nb nerfs? "Keep the nerfs and make it even more stupid." I cant believe they still havent removed this health stack meta too. I am 100% sure they are aware of everything and want to keep the game like this for casual playerbase. Queue up for bg its 9-10 sorcs and nbs. Even gankers put 64 points into health only losing 5% dmg with 10k hp more gained.

Skjaldbjorn

TheRedRavenTR wrote: »

I love how zos has a huge ego and cant revert their bad changes. Sorc shield buff? "Cant revert it in at least 2 years or we will look bad." Did same with undead passive. Warden first pts cycle unneeded nerf and no sorc or nb nerfs? "Keep the nerfs and make it even more stupid." I cant believe they still havent removed this health stack meta too. I am 100% sure they are aware of everything and want to keep the game like this for casual playerbase. Queue up for bg its 9-10 sorcs and nbs. Even gankers put 64 points into health only losing 5% dmg with 10k hp more gained.

If they wanted to keep the health stack meta, they wouldn't have made the change they did to Piercing Cold. Zos often works in broken pieces. They deliver a fifth of the overall goal a patch at a time. Next patch, it might be similar treatment to Sorcs or Nightblades.

MATH_COW

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Because they've made it abundantly clear what the purpose is. They don't want PVP Wardens stacking HP and still getting at % damage gains. I can maybe see them making it like ~32k, but I think expecting anything more than that is super unrealistic.

Well asking just to move it to 35k is not a lot to ask. Being between 30 & 35k max HP in PvP is the average for everybody.

The tanky warden build that are an issue are mostly around 40k HP, never below 35k.

alpha_synuclein

BananaBender wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Not very happy with the Warden changes. From a PVP perspective polar over performs. Arctic blast did not. I would rather make polar do what has been suggested and leave arctic blast as is.

Please leave the damage passive as is or just reduce it to 10%. This is a drastic change that no one is really asking for.

Just for context, imagine if they treated the other classes with the absurd idea they gave Warden.

Necros only get their damage passive when wielding a 2h weapon.

DKs only get theirs when wielding a fire staff.

Templar only gets theirs when dual wielding.

NB only gets theirs when using a bow.

Sorcs only get theirs when using a lightning staff.

This was terrible design from jump. No one wants this, and no one should. Warden shouldn't be punished with it.

This would honestly be way more interesting and fun rather than having the current state of weapons where all classes get good damage if they are using dual wield. Pretty much everything else is a dps loss with a few exceptions. Do I think dual wield should be nerfed? Absolutely not, but I think it would make the game way more interesting if DKs would get slighly better performance with Inferno staffs, Sorcs with lightning etc.

I can see that Warden was weighted waaaay too heavily into ice staves, but I think it would be much better to play into the characteristics of the class rather than have everyone run the exact same weapon combinations.

Dual wield could be a solid safe choice or even the best one to go for in certain situations, but not be the best in slot in every single scenario.

This.
I was pleasantly surprised when they buff ice staves for wardens. And was hoping that if this experiment was judged as successful (aka frost build wardens will be popular enough) they might considered doing something similar to other classes. Sad to see them reverting the direction.

We had daggers frontbar meta for what, 4 years now? Besides the silliness of one weapon working best on literally every PVE build, it's time for a shuffle.

TheRedRavenTR

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

TheRedRavenTR wrote: »

I love how zos has a huge ego and cant revert their bad changes. Sorc shield buff? "Cant revert it in at least 2 years or we will look bad." Did same with undead passive. Warden first pts cycle unneeded nerf and no sorc or nb nerfs? "Keep the nerfs and make it even more stupid." I cant believe they still havent removed this health stack meta too. I am 100% sure they are aware of everything and want to keep the game like this for casual playerbase. Queue up for bg its 9-10 sorcs and nbs. Even gankers put 64 points into health only losing 5% dmg with 10k hp more gained.

If they wanted to keep the health stack meta, they wouldn't have made the change they did to Piercing Cold. Zos often works in broken pieces. They deliver a fifth of the overall goal a patch at a time. Next patch, it might be similar treatment to Sorcs or Nightblades.

No, it is because they want to give the tank skill line a tank passive without nerfing pve dps too much. And they can't put damage to animal companions tree because it needs to be frost based for frost mage wardens.

If they wanted to nerf hp stack meta they can just nerf hp scaling heals and shields. Maybe in battlespirit or just individual skill nerfs.

And maybe instead of nerfing max mag stack on sorc shields (which i thought they would this patch, it is very obvious everyone asks for it.) that is very strong right now, give some classes back their max reserve returns like helping hands and battle roar on dk years ago for example.

And similar buffs to other classes so its not #nerfsorcs but its making max stam/mag viable again on all classes.

Might still need some nerfs on the max stat scaling overall so people dont always stalemate with 20k+ hps from one skill like hardened ward.

But alas zos wants high hp low skill ceiling meta, there is a reason eso is considered very casual mmo these days...

moderatelyfatman

FoJul wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Ice staff: add 6% flat damage, basically a midpoint between fire and lightning for more of a dot direct damage hybrid play style. Makes frost staff better for everyone not just magden.

This is probably the healthiest road to bring Frost staves back for DPS. Wedge a flat % damage gain under like Tri-Focus for them and move on. Doesn't need to be chained to Warden. Could even give it the Health barrier they gave to Piercing Cold if they didn't want PVP tanks getting flat scaling with Frost staves in PVP.

Though I think an argument could be made that a ~5% damage buff to direct damage would be more balanced here. Wouldn't need the HP gate either.

Then they would have to take away from the Defensives. Ice staff would be too loaded.

They should make a fourth staff based around force. Make this 100% defensive and migrate the defensive buffs to this so that Frost can be a pure damage destro like lightning and fire.

xylena_lazarow

DrNukenstein wrote: »

They should halve Streak's distance, and double it's cost

They should just remove Streak altogether and replace it with a stalemate skill that cuts your movement speed in half but helps you face tank. That's what all the forum Hardened Ward defenders seem to want Sorc to be.

BasP wrote: »

I'd prefer to see the skill go back to the way it was.

Really wish they'd revert Piercing Cold too. Both of these changes destroy entire builds and playstyles, while the benefits of the reworks are questionable at best. Arctic Blast needs to be reliable, not a dice roll whether it heals or stuns. The tiny 5m radius on Arctic Blast, Blade Cloak, Sorc Curse AoE, and so on, all need to be the same 7m as melee.

xylena_lazarow

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Because they've made it abundantly clear what the purpose is. They don't want PVP Wardens stacking HP

You don't PvP. The purpose is not clear because this change has zero effect on meta 40k hp dual wield Warden DDs cross healing each other with Polar. It destroys frost DDs and replaces them with... more permablock?

xylena_lazarow

Arctic Blast in PvP scenario: two NBs jump me, chunking my hp into execute range. I have one gcd to get my defenses up. I press Arctic Blast, stunning one of the NBs which means no heal, but the other had popped an immovable pot. Since Arctic Blast neither stopped my attackers nor healed me, I have just spent 3780 magicka to immediately die.

Polar Wind would probably save me here, also because I would have much higher hp on a Polar setup.

TDVM

Honestly, I don't think ZOS will listen to our feedback on the classes and do what they have in mind in Patch Notes v10.1.0. All they will do is minor fixes, and there won't be any major fixes that are needed.

SkaiFaith

_Ahala_ wrote: »

My 2 cents as a long time dedicated warden PvP and PvE player. Feel free to disagree

Arctic Blast: remove heal, buff range, buff damage, add snare to facilitate lock down ice mage play style. Damage morph.

Polar Wind: remove ally heal or nerf ally heal to 40-50%. We have a healing line for healers. Allowing tanks to heal is unhealthy for the game. Support morph

Living trellis and Natures embrace: mega buff the recast heal of the first and the HoT of the second so warden can survive with low health while using the new arctic blast

Ice staff: add 6% flat damage, basically a midpoint between fire and lightning for more of a dot direct damage hybrid play style. Makes frost staff better for everyone not just magden.

Do something with frozen gate. I really don’t care what at this point.

Speed up cliff racer. You literally put a 400 weapon and spell damage buff on a spammable and people still won’t use it. If it’s not as fast as force pulse or frost clench it will forever be a dead skill. It just feels awful to use.

Damage types: make piercing cold also proc off bleed damage and consolidate all magic and poison damage morphs to frost and bleed respectively. Instant class identity.

Polar Wind left with its 40% to ally would be too low, it should maintain at least 60%. But this definitely seems more reasonable than killing off the heal to allies entirely or nerfing the self heal.

MATH_COW wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

React wrote: »

The thing is, I don't know a single person that thought arctic blast was overperforming in a PVP environment. However, nearly every single PVP player that I know agrees that Polar wind is drastically overperforming.

It really makes no sense to me why they'd absolutely gut the lesser used morph while leaving the broken overpowered one untouched.

First because Polar Wind is not overperforming (hello again lol) but mostly because their goal in this patch is to nerf the DD Tanky Warden in PvP, and in that case this is Artic Blast that is more a "problem" I guess. (even if not really true)

Yeah but the "tanky warden dd" uses polar, not blast. So i don't understand why they're doing this. Do they know that blast's heal scales off weapon and spell damage?

Well because at some point it depend, depend how much the build balance you to a simple tank or to a DD.
When you are around 35k max HP with a good damage stat, the burst heal of Artic Blast is barelly the same as the burst of Polar Wind. You just have to choose between a HoT for your survy or a way to freeze to help killing people.

So when you got more HP you will maybe more be into Polar Wind but as they totally changed Piercing Cold passive they don't really need to touch to Polar Wind as those tanky build will already lose a lot of damage potential.
Actually as the Piercing Cold passive do not give damage when you have more than 30k max HP it even nerf every classic Warden pvp DD as you need at least 30k HP to survive correctly in PvP.
I already talked on another post about how stupid making that passive limit at 30k HP is, for PvP and solo archive.
But for that they did not changed anything on that week patch...

Piercing Cold. I could understand the devs' change if the health limit was set to 40K, NOT 30K.
35K Health is the base needed for survivability, and as a Warden you easily go above that since you have +10% health activating on healings.
Also, the bonus to block is much more needed on pure Tanks, and those pure Tanks always have way more than 40K, while Solo players are usually built around 35-40K to still have some damage.

Skjaldbjorn

SkaiFaith wrote: »

[
Piercing Cold. I could understand this change if the health limit was set to 40K, NOT 30K.
35K Health is the base needed for survivability, and as a Warden you easily go above that since you have +10% health activating on healings.
Also, the bonus to block is much more needed on pure Tanks, and those pure Tanks always have way more than 40K, while Solo players are usually built around 35-40K to still have some damage.

Uh...no. Any tank worth their salt in PVE content is sitting in the 34-38k range on average. You don't need anywhere close to 40k.

TheRedRavenTR

TDVM wrote: »

Honestly, I don't think ZOS will listen to our feedback on the classes and do what they have in mind in Patch Notes v10.1.0. All they will do is minor fixes, and there won't be any major fixes that are needed.

sad but true, zos is aware of everything we are saying here but will not make a change. We are wasting our time in the forums.

They will sit silently, not respond to feedback, make the most unneeded changes and add another element to the meta that makes sure you can just roll and drool over your keyboard and survive in pvp granted one of they keys you rolled upon is your max hp heal or hardened ward. Have put 64 attributes to health, used the last expansions mythic/sets (tarnished, saint&seducer). You are good to go and stalemate everyone!

Zos team plays sorc and nb. Gets rekt by some acuity / rc / balorgh / saints / 1pc trainee magden, after not realizing ice blast will cc and gets ult dumped. Says oh no how can i counterplay that when in reality its much easier to fight than sorc or nb. Nerfs it because it is skill expressive. And they wont give dk some flame dmg after vamp nerf cuz dk mains, we should just give up to our superior sorc and nb keyboard droolers. They nerfed dk compared to other classes with vamp change and gave nb 2% more crit dmg. Yeah zos indie company.

TDVM

Necromancer doesn't need Major Brutality and Sorcery, he needs more debuffs for a target to put a lot of debuffs on a target/several of targets in pvp.

If you give him Major Brutality and Sorcery do it in a way that is useful for pvp and pve, in pvp Skeletal Mage is not used and will not be used because it is very important for necro to have the right abilities in necro's current state.

Necro needs to rework half of the skills, improve passive abilities because half of them are just laughs for laughs sake, ZOS intended necro to be a class that would debuff a target/ multiple targets, but they won't do that for some reason they don't. They listen to players who don't play much on the class and ask for Major Brutality and Sorcery because all classes have it, but necro should stand out among classes by not having Major Brutality and Sorcery and having such debuffs that it could have strong competition from classes that have Major Brutality and Sorcery.

Rapid Rot - Increases your damage done with damage over time effects by 10%. - 10%? Why not 20%? Necro even in the current patch with procs/dots has no playability because he has nothing to deal damage with and lives the worst of all

Last Gasp - Increase your Max Health by 1250. - What's that? That passive should be reworked. If you're adding Major Brutality and Sorcery, it should be added to the passive “When you use any ability with periodic effects, you get Major Brutality and Sorcery for 10 sec.” These abilities are Skeletal Mage, Shocking Siphon, Spirit Mender, Restoring Tether. This would be much better for necro than ZOS is coming up with now in Patch Notes v10.1.0.

necro also needs to increase his survivability, as I suggested to do the following:

Bone Armor - Change Minor Resolve to something else since Vigor already has Minor Resolve, for example Minor Vitality it will be useful for pve and pvp. Or add a more useful buff, but not Minor Resolve, it is for necro is definitely unnecessary on this skill

Spirit Mender(morphs Spirit Guardian) - While active 10% of the damage you take is transferred to the spirit instead. Creates a corpse on death. Increase from 10% to 15%

This is one of the minimum things that necro needs, but unfortunately ZOS will not do anything drastic and improve the class and nerco will continue to lose its pvp audience, which is almost nonexistent in today's reality. And no matter how much we write, necro will continue to receive updates that are not really needed.

It's a shame that classes that need a lot of improvements wait sometimes several years at a time. And when it might be that classes like necro get something good, it'll be too late for that to happen

Firstmep

If there is anything overtuned about warden is either polar winds and/or the class script.
Instead you are pummeling arctic into the ground, while buffing the class script, and empowering the 40k hp block forever with polar winds tank playstyle.
Wardens do not need more block mitigation. Not in pve and certainly not on pvp.

The necromancer changes are simply not enough, not to mention the class set exposed a big issue for necro, which is that they have no good way to consume corpses on the offense.
Imho adding a corpse consuming effect for scythe would be a great addition, for example the magic morph could consume a nearby corpse to increase the healing, while the stam morph could increase its damage.

I will once again restate that making sunsphere and empower 10 seconds will not make dark flare a viable spammable ability.
In general, empower should have an effect in pvp as well like 5% increased damage to players, so that all these skills this buff is attached to would be worth running there.
Backlash still hits for laughable damage, compared to the now fully aoe curse that does twice its damage or more with less delay, it's not even close.
The sundered status effect on power of the light doesnt provide its breach for the second explosion, I wish they would just revert to 10 seconds of minor breach on the initial hit instead.
Jabs is unbelievably weak in pvp due to easy access to evasion, the main damage should ignore evasion.

Hardened ward needs to be adjusted. When I was reading the reasoning behind the arctic blast nerf, the only thing that kept popping into my mind was ward ward ward, literally could apply the same reasoning as arctic, but it actually makes more sense.

Nightblades need more consistent damage output for pve, and their burst toned down in pvp.
Move some of their damage away from spectral bow and incap into other damaging skills like path and grasp.

Also, can the other classes get some of them permanent buffs on any bar skills? How does putting savagery on tether activation makes sense while nb and dk gets this buff for just slotting a skill on either bar. It feels like necro is being buffed to a place where the best classes were like 5 years ago. Also templar gets minor intellect and endurance, while sorcery sits on 1 morph of 1 melee skill?
What happened to raising the floor? Is it just for a couple of classes, but not for others?

Skjaldbjorn

Firstmep wrote: »

Wardens do not need more block mitigation. Not in pve and certainly not on pvp.

Eh. They need something. Warden tanks have been grossly out of favor for ages. I don't think this brings them back, but it's a nice nudge to their survivability in heavy damage encounters. They still need more work though. Taking away their ability to apply minor toughness with altar still hurts.

StShoot

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

[
Piercing Cold. I could understand this change if the health limit was set to 40K, NOT 30K.
35K Health is the base needed for survivability, and as a Warden you easily go above that since you have +10% health activating on healings.
Also, the bonus to block is much more needed on pure Tanks, and those pure Tanks always have way more than 40K, while Solo players are usually built around 35-40K to still have some damage.

Uh...no. Any tank worth their salt in PVE content is sitting in the 34-38k range on average. You don't need anywhere close to 40k.

I just checked some of the top logs on the harder raids out there and most main tanks seem to sit at 40k + health ? Or are you talking about dungeontanks or offtanks, or did you mean warden tanks in particular?

MATH_COW

Firstmep wrote: »

Wardens do not need more block mitigation. Not in pve and certainly not on pvp.

Well I don't mind those block mitigation for my PvE tank, my main issue about that Piercing Cold passive for the tank aspect is that it stupidly ask to deal frost damage every 6 seconds to get that mitigation.

Not saying it gonna be hard to maintain with wall of element of course but it just add an annoying thing to deal with when you are already busy as tank in general. We should have the piercing cold passive that give that block mitigation as permanant when we got the Max HP required.
(well of course I'll still argue that the limit should not be 30k but 35k, but that's for the DD part of the problem of this change)

Actually I got a good exemple of when the passive would be good to have but in same time not sure to get:
Second boss Ball Sunnar, during that beam (mostly in HM) having more block mitigation could help but that would ask to have a trash mob on us that get hit by wall of element but nothing can be sure if the trash decide to not go on the aoe (not really able to put another there) and even the passive will be short as those beam are longer than 6 seconds so not even sure to have it for the whole beam that hit extremly hard.

Skjaldbjorn

StShoot wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

SkaiFaith wrote: »

[
Piercing Cold. I could understand this change if the health limit was set to 40K, NOT 30K.
35K Health is the base needed for survivability, and as a Warden you easily go above that since you have +10% health activating on healings.
Also, the bonus to block is much more needed on pure Tanks, and those pure Tanks always have way more than 40K, while Solo players are usually built around 35-40K to still have some damage.

Uh...no. Any tank worth their salt in PVE content is sitting in the 34-38k range on average. You don't need anywhere close to 40k.

I just checked some of the top logs on the harder raids out there and most main tanks seem to sit at 40k + health ? Or are you talking about dungeontanks or offtanks, or did you mean warden tanks in particular?

I mean in general. If you see a tank for 99% of content, if they're experienced and comfortable, they usually sit in the 34-38k range with food, myself included. Extra stam/mag is often significantly more important than just stacking health. While a tank's job is to take hits, that's almost never the focus.

Skjaldbjorn

MATH_COW wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Wardens do not need more block mitigation. Not in pve and certainly not on pvp.

Well I don't mind those block mitigation for my PvE tank, my main issue about that Piercing Cold passive for the tank aspect is that it stupidly ask to deal frost damage every 6 seconds to get that mitigation.

Meh. If a Warden tank is using frost staves, and they probably should be, you're casting reach every 4s to apply maim and brittle anyway.

Skjaldbjorn

StShoot wrote: »

I just checked some of the top logs on the harder raids out there and most main tanks seem to sit at 40k + health ? Or are you talking about dungeontanks or offtanks, or did you mean warden tanks in particular?

Seems like a lot of Necros are definitely sitting over 40k now, that's weird to me. I know there's some fights you want some more HP to cover certain mechanics or just wiggle room, and maybe the meta shifted while I wasn't paying attention. I haven't tanked super seriously the past year. Still though, there's plenty of tanks on logs hovering just at or a decent bit (~1-3k) below 40k. It's far from a hard line.

Faulgor

Firstmep wrote: »

The necromancer changes are simply not enough, not to mention the class set exposed a big issue for necro, which is that they have no good way to consume corpses on the offense.
Imho adding a corpse consuming effect for scythe would be a great addition, for example the magic morph could consume a nearby corpse to increase the healing, while the stam morph could increase its damage.

It is absolutely baffling to me that they don't make proper use of the corpse mechanic. There are virtually no skills that are satisfying to use on a Necro that consume a corpse - except perhaps Renewing / Enduring Undeath. And that's because those actually offer a qualitative difference. Tethers will always be horrible to use, so while they offer something, it's not satisfying.

Frankly I think the whole corpse mechanic is a bit backwards, because you'd expect a Necromancer to raise corpses. Instead they summon all their skeletons like ... a summoner.

IMO they should at least change Boneyard to summon a Blastbones when it consumes a corpse. That's at least thematically on point and seems much more satisfying than +30% damage on a singular DoT. If it depended on the Blastbones morph you have, it could also help in maintaining the GLS uptime and make the rotation more simple - what they allegedly set out to do when they removed Stalking.

MATH_COW

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

I mean in general. If you see a tank for 99% of content, if they're experienced and comfortable, they usually sit in the 34-38k range with food, myself included. Extra stam/mag is often significantly more important than just stacking health. While a tank's job is to take hits, that's almost never the focus.

Wow I don't know in what world you play there, never see tank with so low max HP. A confortable tank will be maybe at 40k but not bellow, some hard content attack can do way more than that even when blocking.

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Meh. If a Warden tank is using frost staves, and they probably should be, you're casting reach every 4s to apply maim and brittle anyway.

That's in the idea every tank use Clench, and I don't think it's a generality.
I don't because it drain magicka that I could save for more usefull thing for nothing else than a 4 seconds debuff (if the debuff was for 20 seconds I would maybe use it) that could be pointless if there is already someone applying it or just having enough crit damage in the group.
Also I always find the immobilization from this skill annoying as I want the trash to be able to come to me.

And in fact that skill will not allow a tank to have the passive for the exemple of Ball Sunnar I gave as you'll rather save your magicka to self heal yourself than having to think about using Clench on a trash at least 2 times (as the beam is longer than that and that Clench is not a DoT) that you'll also need to spot.

I don't think it's a lot to ask to let that tank part of the passive to not need to deal frost damage every 6 seconds, we already have to reach a certain amount of max HP to have it so why asking also to need to do something else.

Skjaldbjorn

MATH_COW wrote: »

Wow I don't know in what world you play there, never see tank with so low max HP. A confortable tank will be maybe at 40k but not bellow, some hard content attack can do way more than that even when blocking.

I have tanked every HM trial and arena in the game, and most of the dungeons. I've tanked all but 3 trial trifectas, and several dungeon trifectas. There's simply no need for 40k+ HP in most content. It just starves you of resources.

MATH_COW

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

MATH_COW wrote: »

Wow I don't know in what world you play there, never see tank with so low max HP. A confortable tank will be maybe at 40k but not bellow, some hard content attack can do way more than that even when blocking.

I have tanked every HM trial and arena in the game, and most of the dungeons. I've tanked all but 3 trial trifectas, and several dungeon trifectas. There's simply no need for 40k+ HP in most content. It just starves you of resources.

As a warden tank?
Because I did few dungeons trifecta, few HM trials and every dungeon HM with my warden tank with 50k HP, 20k magicka and 25k stamina and I never had ressources issues.

Skjaldbjorn

MATH_COW wrote: »

As a warden tank?
Because I did few dungeons trifecte, few HM trials and every dungeon HM with my warden tank with 50k HP, 20k magicka and 25k stamina and I never had ressources issues.

I Warden tanked a fair bit before they fell off, basically around when Cro came out. After that Warden didn't have much purpose - especially after the "procs can't proc procs" changes. Losing the ability to give the group Minor Toughness with altar was just awful for warden tanks. Haven't really touched one since. Everything a Warden does okay, a different tank does better right now, except maybe frozen gate.

Off the top of my head, I have 2 IRs, 2 DBs, 2 TTTs, 5-6 GHs and maybe something else on a Warden tank.

MATH_COW

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Everything a Warden does okay, a different tank does better right now, except maybe frozen gate.

Frozen gate is meh, could be good but too long to cast and don't even taunt after their update on pulling skill.
I just have the other morph on every build just for the synergy that can be usefull when someone get stuck lol.

But yeah sadly Warden is only okay as tank, got good survivability with his good self heal and self buff but nothing else.
Always find weird they did not give a 20 seconds minor group passive as the core game class, mostly now that they give arcanist one.

We got Icy Aura passive that do nothing else than reducing the snare we got and got a perfect name for it imo.
They could add there "using a winter's embrace skill will give to you and your group minor resolve for 20 seconds".
That would not really make the warden a more usefull option as tank in a group but that could be a good start.

xylena_lazarow

Thank you for nerfing Undeath. Looking forward to PvP in u43 just for this!

Durham

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Tell me how a Stan warden is helped? This is a nerf to Stam and Magicka in PVP.

PVE Stamden was buffed. Big. Which they desperately needed. I don't PVP. Warden has been viable in PVP basically since release. PVE Warden DPS has been viable in like four patches since release. Time for PVP mains to take one for the team. We PVE DPS have been suffering for way, way too long.

Warden have not been viable over the years. There have been times they have been like right now. But I would say for the most part they have struggled. They for the longest time were the least popular class in Cyrodil.

On the PVE side I hear ya.

Durham

Class balance: Guys with the current test changes it will do nothing but make the PVP imbalance worse.

1. Night Blades almost 50% of the current PVP population (This is really bad for PVP) They will be stronger next patch again!
2. Sorcs are the next class and to me more dangerous then Night Blades. The boards are screaming about this class (WARD)
3. No class because yes there is that bad of a drop.
4. Wardens but usually when they are in groups of multiple wardens when they cross heal, they quickly become very unbalanced. Solo Warden not that big of a deal . Warden Polar wind is bad design but in the notes we nerfed the more balanced heal.
5. DK have lost some ground in the last few patches. Still in a good spot its just other classes have been buffed.
6. Templars (Im not going to say anything)
7. Necro's no one plays and it's been like this for over a year. I do not know why it's taken so long to react to it.

(Unranked) Arcanist I just cant rank these guys because I have very limited time on them.

The balance issues in PVP surround several facts what are you giving up to to damage vs. survivability. Mobility is huge in PVP and the slowest classes take the most damage and are the lowest on the list. Heal stacking is a serious issue in PVP.
Ranged Damage output vs Melee output.