Guild trader listings being changed to 14 days??!?

VisitHammerfell · May 1

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see how this will do anything to listing prices. Most of my items sell in one day and those that take longer still rarely go past a week. Why would this make me drop prices?

Maybe bc you're selling items that sell quickly? And the people who have an issue with this are those who sell slower moving items??

[Snip]

[Edited for trolling]

Nharimlur_Finor · May 1

allochthons wrote: »

A few things:
1) I'm on console. We don't have TTC to assist us. To check prices, we have to go to every trader, individually. A friend tested it. To check the prices on 2 items, it took 5 HOURS to check every trader in the game. And that was a few DLC ago. They add more traders every year. As a result, when pricing things, I only check the current prices in the capital cities, and I check more than most console traders. Many people only check the price in their own trader.

2) I'm not selling heartwood. I'm selling much rarer things, which don't have nearly the same number of people buying. Motifs, furniture plans and overland gear (like Briarheart) have a much, much smaller market than crafting materials. When I'm selling a clockwork reliquary (the factotum polymorph that only comes from vAS+2) or the timber crow costume, there may only be 1-2 people on console total who are interesting in buying it every 3 months or so. Materials and consumables are bought all the time, repeatedly. Runeboxes, motifs and the like are only sold to each player once (usually).

When I do sell mats like mundane runes or dragon's blood, they do sell within a few hours. But that's not what I usually sell. It's maybe 5% of what I sell.

(What is ATT?)

(1). All console players are at the same disadvantage as each other. I'll repeat what I said elsewhere: if you are selling something that you found for free; the selling price doesn't really matter. It all becomes free gold.

(2). Then you will now need to relist your 'timbercrow' every two weeks. You can now calculate the cost of relisting six(?) times before it finally sells. Deduct that from your initial listing and you will now see how ZOS have devalued your item. Just put it up at the reduced price and see how quickly it sells.

Seriously, the problem is actually your expectation of what it COULD sell for.

I have had for sale, for around 2 weeks, 2 x furniture plans that ATT tells me are worth 130000. Today, the displayed priced dropped to 102000. This means that someone has reduced the average price by selling substantially lower. I relisted both items for 80000. They sold within an hour. Market forces in action. Today, I have 160000 more than I had yesterday from two sales. These items cost me nothing.

Even with addons, the price that I see for any item, is SPECIFIC TO ME ONLY and the sales data from the five guilds that I sell through. This change will probably reduce the displayed history from 30 - 14 days, that will affect the overall 'current' price,. FOR EVERYTHING.

You should consider rethinking how you generate money, you may need to sell more base products, rather than relying on rarities.

Wuduwasa13 · May 1

A truly ridiculous idea.

DreamyLu · May 1

For those who refill their listings fully every day, this change will have no impact? Is it correct? The impact is only for those who are used to let items untouched for a "long" time on offer? Just to be sure I understand correctly.

SilverBride · May 1

VisitHammerfell wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see how this will do anything to listing prices. Most of my items sell in one day and those that take longer still rarely go past a week. Why would this make me drop prices?

Maybe bc you're selling items that sell quickly? And the people who have an issue with this are those who sell slower moving items??

[Snip]

All items are already undercut by those that want quick sales.

[Edited quote]

WolfStar07 · May 1

SilverBride wrote: »

JanTanhide wrote: »

Now if it doesn't sell within 14 days and we want to put it up for sale again we pay another listing fee.

These are the kinds of things that happen when players ask for things like more gold sinks.

There are ways to add more gold sinks without changing systems that affect the entire player base.

Drammanoth wrote: »

Sometimes we don't ask ZOS for changes, but they still implement them.

To this day, had anyone asked them about the Sticker Book? About curated sets items? Don't recall, and yet they have implemented these changes - and PRAISE ZOS for this.

After 3 weeks the posted items lose value, not to mention during some events.

Half a month? A BRILLIANT IDEA. This will boos the economy. What is it that people are waiting for - for prices to be cheaper after three weeks? If you see an item, buy it and be done with it.

Stickerbook and curated sets were developed to address storage issues, which players have been and are still asking to be addressed. The trader and mail changes aren't addressing issues players have raised, and the explanation ZOS is giving doesn't make sense. Don't try to compare the 2 situations.

XSTRONG · May 1

This seems like a pretty good gold sink but not what players was asking for, I think some items will get alot cheaper on the market

FlopsyPrince · May 1

Drammanoth wrote: »

Sometimes we don't ask ZOS for changes, but they still implement them.

To this day, had anyone asked them about the Sticker Book? About curated sets items? Don't recall, and yet they have implemented these changes - and PRAISE ZOS for this.

After 3 weeks the posted items lose value, not to mention during some events.

Half a month? A BRILLIANT IDEA. This will boos the economy. What is it that people are waiting for - for prices to be cheaper after three weeks? If you see an item, buy it and be done with it.

The sticker book is quite useful. No more farming forever to get the item you want for another character.

Other changes, not always.

FlopsyPrince · May 1

LaintalAy wrote: »

allochthons wrote: »

A few things:
1) I'm on console. We don't have TTC to assist us. To check prices, we have to go to every trader, individually. A friend tested it. To check the prices on 2 items, it took 5 HOURS to check every trader in the game. And that was a few DLC ago. They add more traders every year. As a result, when pricing things, I only check the current prices in the capital cities, and I check more than most console traders. Many people only check the price in their own trader.

This is a very misleading claim. Why don't you send me (in game) all motifs you get for 1 gold each since it is "free gold" for you?

The whole idea of heave RNG is that you can sometimes make a real deal on what you get. Finding out after the fact that you sold something for 100 gold that was really worth 1 million gold, for example, is a serious downer.

Knowing a good price for something is almost a requirement, but we definitely do not have it on console and I am debating whether TTC's numbers really have any value other than helping those who play the buy and flip game.

FlopsyPrince · May 1

I just restarted after a year+ break on both the PC and PS5. And I then bit for the Gold Road Deluxe expansion but things like this make me question how many other things will end up harming me and not helping me.

I may lose out on what I spent, but all past spending, even yesterday, are sunk costs and ZOS needs to keep in mind that lacking a clear care for customers can cause people to walk from past purchases and thus not make future ones.

They seriously need to get their playerbase to believe they really care for them, not just a few who will support whatever action they take on the forums. The perception of caring is key and I am simply not seeing that in as many. Hopefully they will change their minds on the value of making changes that clearly show their care for players, but I am not holding my breath.

I am not threatening to quit BTW, I am just noting what I see as a need for players, including myself, to believe they care about them. This perception is vital to the future of the game.

BlueRaven · May 1

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't see how this will do anything to listing prices. Most of my items sell in one day and those that take longer still rarely go past a week. Why would this make me drop prices?

Items will move off the vendor faster plus they last in the mail shorter. Which means the chances that items get “mistakenly” deleted rises. So less overall inventory.

Also all sellers have minimum prices. Items falling below that price is not worth selling in the limited slots they have. (For me personally it’s 1k. If a motif, houseplan, etc is selling for under 1k I just give it away or vendor it. Other sellers may have higher price cut offs.) So items that fall below that won’t make it to market. This is just basic human nature.

Lastly is the frustration issue. Making things less convenient may take sellers out of the game. Major sellers with extremely large amount followers are complaining about this change. Some other players may just walk away from selling, or even playing eso. Less sellers, less inventory on sale, with same(ish) demand all equals higher prices.

I have a good amount of gold. (Between 15-20 mil.) and my only real expense is the lux vendor. I am ok if I just stop selling. And I think a good amount of other players are too.
If this makes selling things more annoying. (And I don’t see how it won’t.) I can stop. It’s been said a lot recently, but other games are respecting my game time more than eso is, and there is a lot of competition out there. It’s becoming harder and harder to log in, and I feel like I am just sticking it out as it is as I have been here from the beginning, so just play at least through the 10th anniversary.
So I really don’t need ANOTHER thing to get me frustrated with the game. And since spell scribing looks like it’s going to be awful, I am thinking I may just take my main through the main quest and call it.

Freilauftomate · May 1

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

I just restarted after a year+ break on both the PC and PS5. And I then bit for the Gold Road Deluxe expansion but things like this make me question how many other things will end up harming me and not helping me.

I may lose out on what I spent, but all past spending, even yesterday, are sunk costs and ZOS needs to keep in mind that lacking a clear care for customers can cause people to walk from past purchases and thus not make future ones.

They seriously need to get their playerbase to believe they really care for them, not just a few who will support whatever action they take on the forums. The perception of caring is key and I am simply not seeing that in as many. Hopefully they will change their minds on the value of making changes that clearly show their care for players, but I am not holding my breath.

I am not threatening to quit BTW, I am just noting what I see as a need for players, including myself, to believe they care about them. This perception is vital to the future of the game.

This is what i am worried about. What if this whole thing is just a way to "make players believe their feedback matters"?

Zodiarkslayer · May 1

I find it funny, that the guys complaining about a lack of effective gold sinks in ESO will dismiss the best change to gold sinks in 10 years. 🤦‍♂️

One can argue that cutting the time frame in half, will decrease overall price levels. But I am sceptic. Most guys will find a price point based on data from TTC and the like (not on consoles, I know). Normally the time frame is no issue at the point of posting, but rather after roughly two weeks. Most traders I know will recommend to reoffer at lower prices between 7 to 15 days,anyway or to put the item in long term storage. So, in my opinion this changes nothing.

I am equally sceptic about the performance improvement. If, database strain is a bottleneck, it would, I guess. But only IF.

Ilumia · May 1

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I find it funny, that the guys complaining about a lack of effective gold sinks in ESO will dismiss the best change to gold sinks in 10 years. 🤦‍♂️

A fairer gold sink would have been to raise the tax when the item sells. Currently it's 3,5% to guildbank and 3,5% dissappearing.
Then players selling slow moving items, and people needing to take items down for times they're away, wouldn't be punished for their play style.

Ilumia · May 1

But those of us that believe the econony would benefit from more gold sinks might not enjoy the 14 day timers. Those are certainly what I'm voicing my frustration about in this thread.
I can be for more gold sinks and still hate this awful change for other reasons.

Zodiarkslayer · May 1

Ilumia wrote: »

But those of us that believe the econony would benefit from more gold sinks might not enjoy the 14 day timers ...

Sometimes you've got to give up a little bit of personal space in order to have more room for everyone.

You can probably imagine what I think of someone wanting to avoid a change, that would benefit everybody, based on nothing better than one's personal desire for convenience ... 😉

Wolfkeks · May 1

I don't see how shortening the listing time can improve server performance. 🤷

Jaraal · May 1

Wolfkeks wrote: »

I don't see how shortening the listing time can improve server performance. 🤷

Right, because what is a player going to do with an item when it comes back 2 weeks earlier?

"Oh, shoot, my item is back 2 weeks early. I guess I'll keep it now! Or maybe I'll just destroy it to help improve server performance."

ClowdyAllDay · May 1

Clearly ZOS intends for us all to use zone chat for sales since we cant rely on the mail system or the guild systems not to tank the server SO the only solution left is to use zone chat!

Awesome!

So does this mean we will get a separate chat function to talk in sales chat now? A global sales zone chat that one can opt into or out of with a /M to enter global marketplace chat since they are clearly discouraging the use of guilds now? Not that i mind so much i just want to know when Marketpllace chat goes live.

Freilauftomate · May 1

ClowdyAllDay wrote: »

Clearly ZOS intends for us all to use zone chat for sales since we cant rely on the mail system or the guild systems not to tank the server SO the only solution left is to use zone chat!

Awesome!

So does this mean we will get a separate chat function to talk in sales chat now? A global sales zone chat that one can opt into or out of with a /M to enter global marketplace chat since they are clearly discouraging the use of guilds now? Not that i mind so much i just want to know when Marketpllace chat goes live.

On console we are in all the chats all the time. We don't have different windows for anything. So i guess i will have to learn to read faster...

twev · May 1

If players want a gold sink, maybe 3.5% tax is too low.
Maybe 50% would do it.
[/sarc off]

Ilumia · May 1

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

But those of us that believe the econony would benefit from more gold sinks might not enjoy the 14 day timers ...

Sometimes you've got to give up a little bit of personal space in order to have more room for everyone.

You can probably imagine what I think of someone wanting to avoid a change, that would benefit everybody, based on nothing better than one's personal desire for convenience ... 😉

That is so easy to say when it isn't your playstyle being sacrificed on the ever-hungry server improvement altar. Not that I've ever really noticed improvements in the server performance.
It also doesn't seem to be just my personal desire for "convenience" - as you put it, it seems to be lots of l people hating the mail and trader changes.

VisitHammerfell · May 1

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I find it funny, that the guys complaining about a lack of effective gold sinks in ESO will dismiss the best change to gold sinks in 10 years. 🤦‍♂️

I'm on PS5, we don't need gold sinks. It's not easy to earn tons of gold and this will negatively impact one of my primary methods of income (selling motifs), while still having to pay 25k a week Mournhold fees. Everybody else shouldn't be punished so PC NA's add on caused inflation can be fixed a little

DreamyLu wrote: »

For those who refill their listings fully every day, this change will have no impact? Is it correct? The impact is only for those who are used to let items untouched for a "long" time on offer? Just to be sure I understand correctly.

I will be honest, I have never heard of anybody refilling listings daily, that seems like a huge waste of time and gold just to be bumped up a couple spots if sorting by new. Is this only for mats or event pages or something?

sarahthes · May 1

VisitHammerfell wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I find it funny, that the guys complaining about a lack of effective gold sinks in ESO will dismiss the best change to gold sinks in 10 years. 🤦‍♂️

I'm on PS5, we don't need gold sinks. It's not easy to earn tons of gold and this will negatively impact one of my primary methods of income (selling motifs), while still having to pay 25k a week Mournhold fees. Everybody else shouldn't be punished so PC NA's add on caused inflation can be fixed a little

DreamyLu wrote: »

For those who refill their listings fully every day, this change will have no impact? Is it correct? The impact is only for those who are used to let items untouched for a "long" time on offer? Just to be sure I understand correctly.

I will be honest, I have never heard of anybody refilling listings daily, that seems like a huge waste of time and gold just to be bumped up a couple spots if sorting by new. Is this only for mats or event pages or something?

The stuff I list in my Mournhold trade guild sells within 2 days normally.

FluffyBird · May 1

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

But those of us that believe the econony would benefit from more gold sinks might not enjoy the 14 day timers ...

Sometimes you've got to give up a little bit of personal space in order to have more room for everyone.

You can probably imagine what I think of someone wanting to avoid a change, that would benefit everybody, based on nothing better than one's personal desire for convenience ... 😉

You can probably imagine what I think of someone believing that this is going to benefit players and even giving others "holier than thou" attitude based on that belief.

ganzaeso · May 1

DenverRalphy wrote: »

I can't help but think this is more an attempt to curb crazy high prices on the traders, by encouraging players to price items to sell faster rather than sit there longer for huge payouts. If that's the case, I could argue both for and against it.

Those crazy high prices will just move to zone chat on a loop from multiple players.

Necrotech_Master · May 1

VisitHammerfell wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

I find it funny, that the guys complaining about a lack of effective gold sinks in ESO will dismiss the best change to gold sinks in 10 years. 🤦‍♂️

I'm on PS5, we don't need gold sinks. It's not easy to earn tons of gold and this will negatively impact one of my primary methods of income (selling motifs), while still having to pay 25k a week Mournhold fees. Everybody else shouldn't be punished so PC NA's add on caused inflation can be fixed a little

DreamyLu wrote: »

For those who refill their listings fully every day, this change will have no impact? Is it correct? The impact is only for those who are used to let items untouched for a "long" time on offer? Just to be sure I understand correctly.

I will be honest, I have never heard of anybody refilling listings daily, that seems like a huge waste of time and gold just to be bumped up a couple spots if sorting by new. Is this only for mats or event pages or something?

idk why people think this is change is to combat inflation, or will act as a gold sink

if an item sells in less than 14 days, theres literally no change in gold usage between the current timers and new timers, the only time it would matter is if your item would sell after 14 days

my experience is pretty close with what their data was suggesting, that an item would sell within the first week or 2, or not at all, its very rare i would have something sell after the 2 week mark unless i had it priced slightly above the average, it was an expensive listing, or it was a volatile price that was fluctuating every week

ClowdyAllDay · May 1

As much money as this game makes they have a responsibility to provide service.

FlopsyPrince · May 2

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Ilumia wrote: »

But those of us that believe the econony would benefit from more gold sinks might not enjoy the 14 day timers ...

Sometimes you've got to give up a little bit of personal space in order to have more room for everyone.

You can probably imagine what I think of someone wanting to avoid a change, that would benefit everybody, based on nothing better than one's personal desire for convenience ... 😉

It is not the players' responsibility to make the game work. It is the ones who make it who should be responsible for that.

RMW · May 2

If they said it would be to combat inflation I wouldn't care so much. But they didn't They said it's to improve server performance while at the same time we never got an update regarding the code rewrite from more than 2 years ago. (And I guess that code rewrite is just not happening anymore)

And after seeing how much the server performance got improved after the account wide achievement update... I'm not sure this will be it.