Please fix Endless Archive difficulty

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

edit: if you want tho'at to be a public dungeon boss, and this content is supposed to be an arena style like maelstrom or vateshran, you already said you dont like vateshran and dont do that content, this isnt any different

The difference is that I do enjoy the EA, at least as much as I've gotten to see of it, and it's my decision what content I choose to take part in.

It is appropriate to make suggestions I feel would improve the experience for many.

EdjeSwift

The issue with adjusting Tho'at is the fight ties in with progression, your Act 1 Tho'at is the same Tho'at you get in Act 2, 3, and onward.

Act 2 Tho'at Shard adds new mechanics which exist from Act 2 onward. Act 3 does the same, as does Act 4. After Act 4 the bosses hit harder and get more HP, but the mechanics are the same. By removing mechanics or changing Act 1 you have to rebalance/redo the other encounters or shift everything further down where the current Act 1 Tho'at is now Act 2 to make it so you can learn/see all the mechanics you need for moving forward.

There is nothing stopping any player from experiencing this content, just like there's nothing stopping a player from experiencing a dungeon or a trial outside of level restrictions, but like all other content it's not for everyone. We all have skill caps which are affected by a myriad of things, and sometimes we just have to accept we can't do things by ourselves. At that point we can ask for help or move on. When I first fought Tho'at prime I got tilted cause I was getting killed by some unseen threat or bad block timing, but instead of ask for changes, I went and learned what I was doing wrong and adjusted tactics and eventually beat them. But if you keep rushing against the wall with the same tactics you're going to end up crushed under it's weight.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

edit: if you want tho'at to be a public dungeon boss, and this content is supposed to be an arena style like maelstrom or vateshran, you already said you dont like vateshran and dont do that content, this isnt any different

The difference is that I do enjoy the EA, at least as much as I've gotten to see of it, and it's my decision what content I choose to take part in.

It is appropriate to make suggestions I feel would improve the experience for many.

then you would have to nerf all of arc 1, because even the first cycle boss has 750k hp, which is half that of most world bosses

i know its your choice to choose the content, im not telling you to go run vateshran, im just saying the difficulty is about the same

so asking for arc 1 to be nerfed is about the same as asking for normal vateshran to be nerfed

or going into a group dungeon solo and then asking for it to be nerfed because you cant solo it

its been explicitly posted that the devs designed the archive around a 2 player team, and a companion is 100% not a replacement for a second player (the archive makes it pretty clear, and honestly if they fixed the fact that a companion and most pets get nuked by any aoes that itself would make things a lot easier)

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i don't know what i would suggest then

I do. I suggest that they make this boss's difficulty comparable to the rest of the Arc and more appropriate for an Arc 1 boss so average players can progress beyond Arc 1.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

in a 2 person dps group with the right verses, ive killed arc 1 tho'at in 13 seconds

even solo it takes me under a minute to kill arc 1 tho'at (or faster again depending on verses)

That is far from everyone's experience. The fact that some players have no problem with it doesn't change that fact that many do.

This is a new feature that the majority of players should be able to experience, not just those who want difficulty from the start. This needs to be looked at and some balancing done.

I think adjusting Tho'at in Arc 1 can be justified, especially if it's only about reducing the amount of AoE laid down by it's light attacks. As far as I understood your arguments, this is your main issue and wouldn't break anything for others.

Some other people around here are arguing for nerfing Arc 1 across the board, so they are able to farm their daily effortless and easily after any challenge were removed. That's out of the question of course, as EA is meant to be challenging content, while chilling can be done in overland.

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

edit: if you want tho'at to be a public dungeon boss, and this content is supposed to be an arena style like maelstrom or vateshran, you already said you dont like vateshran and dont do that content, this isnt any different

The difference is that I do enjoy the EA, at least as much as I've gotten to see of it, and it's my decision what content I choose to take part in.

It is appropriate to make suggestions I feel would improve the experience for many.

then you would have to nerf all of arc 1, because even the first cycle boss has 750k hp, which is half that of most world bosses

That isn't my suggestion nor do I feel it's necessary. But that would be up to ZoS if they take a look at this and agree that some changes are in order.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

edit: if you want tho'at to be a public dungeon boss, and this content is supposed to be an arena style like maelstrom or vateshran, you already said you dont like vateshran and dont do that content, this isnt any different

The difference is that I do enjoy the EA, at least as much as I've gotten to see of it, and it's my decision what content I choose to take part in.

It is appropriate to make suggestions I feel would improve the experience for many.

then you would have to nerf all of arc 1, because even the first cycle boss has 750k hp, which is half that of most world bosses

That isn't my suggestion nor do I feel it's necessary. But that would be up to ZoS if they take a look at this and agree that some changes are in order.

reducing the hp makes the fight end quicker

if you want the bosses including tho'at in line with public dungeon, they would need significantly reduced health (public dungeon bosses are mostly around 350k hp, at least for non dlc ones, there are a few dlc group public dungeon bosses around 1 mil hp such as the one in orcrest in north elsweyr)

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if you want the bosses including tho'at in line with public dungeon, they would need significantly reduced health (public dungeon bosses are mostly around 350k hp, at least for non dlc ones, there are a few dlc group public dungeon bosses around 1 mil hp such as the one in orcrest in north elsweyr)

I am not going to tell ZoS how to implement any changes they may see as appropriate. But I stand by my opinion that the Arc 1 final boss is way out of proportion with the rest of the Arc and way too difficult for what is supposed to be the least difficult part of the EA.

That being said, please just agree to disagree and let's leave it at that.

Necrotech_Master

SilverBride wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

if you want the bosses including tho'at in line with public dungeon, they would need significantly reduced health (public dungeon bosses are mostly around 350k hp, at least for non dlc ones, there are a few dlc group public dungeon bosses around 1 mil hp such as the one in orcrest in north elsweyr)

I am not going to tell ZoS how to implement any changes they may see as appropriate. But I stand by my opinion that the Arc 1 final boss is way out of proportion with the rest of the Arc and way too difficult for what is supposed to be the least difficult part of the EA.

That being said, please just agree to disagree and let's leave it at that.

thats fine with me

i just dont plan on zos adjusting the difficulty much, or at all, unless they made it more forgiving to use pets/companions

SilverBride

Braffin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This is a new feature that the majority of players should be able to experience, not just those who want difficulty from the start. This needs to be looked at and some balancing done.

I think adjusting Tho'at in Arc 1 can be justified, especially if it's only about reducing the amount of AoE laid down by it's light attacks. As far as I understood your arguments, this is your main issue and wouldn't break anything for others.

Some other people around here are arguing for nerfing Arc 1 across the board, so they are able to farm their daily effortless and easily after any challenge were removed. That's out of the question of course, as EA is meant to be challenging content, while chilling can be done in overland.

I find the rest of Arc 1 fairly easy and what I'd expect to find in a first level. It's only Tho'at that I find to be excessively difficult by comparison.

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

I breeze through Arc 1 very easily until I get to this boss where I hit a brick wall and cannot progress. The difficulty of this boss is way out of proportion with the rest of the Arc. It needs to be brought down to a level that fits an entry level Arc.

Have you looked at your death recap? I'm willing to bet that you're being killed by 30-40k "Tho'at Shard" hits. The shards are those little blobs with health bars. Once they spawn, they start channeling damage that increases the longer you ignore it, until it kills you. You have to interrupt it while it has the telegraph lines flashing, or outright kill it. And if you don't keep up with killing the little guys, more of them will spawn, until you get overwhelmed.

Lugaldu

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

(...)

normal maelstrom was nerfed once already a long time ago, normal vateshran is about the same as arc 1 in the archive

but i dont see anyone asking for more nerfs of maelstrom/vateshran (...)

I could well imagine that the lack of desire for a nerf of maelstrom/vateshran is simply because many people who don't like this type of content simply don't do it because they don't find any incentives there (probably don´t care for sets e.g.). In the EA, ZOS is now offering a whole range of different things that appeal to many more players with different interests - e.g. furniture plans, furniture, cards for the deck, leads and the currency with which you can buy many of those things.
And this makes it annoying for many people - that elements from one part of the game like housing is used as an incentive to lure people into the new content, but this new content is then too difficult for players who are usually concerned with overland stuff.

EdjeSwift

Lugaldu wrote: »

I could well imagine that the lack of desire for a nerf of maelstrom/vateshran is simply because many people who don't like this type of content simply don't do it because they don't find any incentives there (probably don´t care for sets e.g.). In the EA, ZOS is now offering a whole range of different things that appeal to many more players with different interests - e.g. furniture plans, furniture, cards for the deck, leads and the currency with which you can buy many of those things.
And this makes it annoying for many people - that elements from one part of the game like housing is used as an incentive to lure people into the new content, but this new content is then too difficult for players who are usually concerned with overland stuff.

You literally don't even have to beat Act 1 to get most of these things. The cards, plans, leads, and furniture come from the mini-game chests primarily, at least in my experience.

MidniteOwl1913

Ardriel wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with the difficulty level if only we were given the option to save and get more lives. In return, no leaderboard score of course. I like practicing difficult things. But if I have to start all over again every time, I lose motivation. It's too frustrating and far too exhausting for me. After a couple of hours I have problems to concentrate and my eyes hurt because of all those effects. Apart from that, I don't have that much time. I would be in favor of leaving the difficulty level as it is but introducing a "leaderboard score, no save, 3 threads of life" option or a "no score but save and more life threads" option.

This! I don't have unlimited play time. I'm *never* going to have the time to practice the mechanics of 68 bosses without some sort of save, And it's very tiring too.

Elsonso

.

EdjeSwift wrote: »

The issue with adjusting Tho'at is the fight ties in with progression, your Act 1 Tho'at is the same Tho'at you get in Act 2, 3, and onward.

Act 2 Tho'at Shard adds new mechanics which exist from Act 2 onward. Act 3 does the same, as does Act 4. After Act 4 the bosses hit harder and get more HP, but the mechanics are the same. By removing mechanics or changing Act 1 you have to rebalance/redo the other encounters or shift everything further down where the current Act 1 Tho'at is now Act 2 to make it so you can learn/see all the mechanics you need for moving forward.

Actually, they don't have to do it that way at all.

The point being brought up is that the Tho'at present in Arc 1 is out of line with the content that leads up to it. How they would address such a thing is entirely up to them. They can really do anything they want, including removing Tho'at entirely from the first Arc. I doubt they will do that, due to the daily quest and assorted baggage, dialogs, and VO, but they do have that option, if they choose.

Jaraal wrote: »

Have you looked at your death recap? I'm willing to bet that you're being killed by 30-40k "Tho'at Shard" hits. The shards are those little blobs with health bars. Once they spawn, they start channeling damage that increases the longer you ignore it, until it kills you. You have to interrupt it while it has the telegraph lines flashing, or outright kill it. And if you don't keep up with killing the little guys, more of them will spawn, until you get overwhelmed.

... and maybe the answer to Tho'at Arc 1 is to address those shards. Reduce the damage done, or make the channel damage increase slower, or increase the spawn time.

MidniteOwl1913

AlterBlika wrote: »

Anne13 wrote: »

That's the whole point of this post. + I don't want to sacrifice damage and make it take longer. If you want too. That's your choice.

Let's then make all enemies in the game hit like an overland mob so nobody has to sacrifice damage

All those trash mobs are a huge time sink, as far as I can tell that's their whole purpose to waste time. They are so much easier than the bosses it isn't even a DPS check.

Necrotech_Master

Elsonso wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Have you looked at your death recap? I'm willing to bet that you're being killed by 30-40k "Tho'at Shard" hits. The shards are those little blobs with health bars. Once they spawn, they start channeling damage that increases the longer you ignore it, until it kills you. You have to interrupt it while it has the telegraph lines flashing, or outright kill it. And if you don't keep up with killing the little guys, more of them will spawn, until you get overwhelmed.

... and maybe the answer to Tho'at Arc 1 is to address those shards. Reduce the damage done, or make the channel damage increase slower, or increase the spawn time.

...or just you know, kill the shards with aoes, or bash them if they are channeling, you shouldnt have to really focus the shards much just pay attention if one is channeling

its not a complicated mechanic, in arc 1 there isnt even anything "hiding" the shards (in later arcs the blobs can sometimes overlap with other mechanics such as the giant tentacles and be hard to see or impossible to bash because they are inside of the tentacle

MidniteOwl1913

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

I think the ideal solution would be to have the difficulty ramp up more slowly, so new players or players who want to solo or play with companions without feeling like the companion is a complete joke, or players with dexterity issues can play through multiple arcs. At present they pretty much get arc 1 and that's it.

This is exactly what the problem is and what should happen. Thank you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please take this into consideration. I would love to be able to enjoy more of this new feature.

ironically that is kindof how it was on the PTS before all of the changes and complaints that it was "too easy" and "boring" by the upper echelons of the PVE community.

I am perfectly fine if the content scales as time goes on, just that it scales within reason.

Endless Archive was sold to us as a progressive endurance test, not an opportunity for all of the ESO bosses to take revenge for all of the times they died to players.

But it's still like that isn't it?

For the first two arcs you have to do absolutely nothing except burn the adds and bosses, get out of bad AoE and enter good AoE. In arc 3 you need to be a bit more tanky and conscious of your environment and only when in arc 4 you start to rely on your offensive vision gathered, of which you should have had 9 choices already. (EDIT: for example the 37% offensive penetration one + ferocious strikes (15% bleed), ferocious support (50k+ bleed), focused efforts (200% status effect damage), attuned enchantments (60% stronger glyphs) on a heavy attack build. You will bleed everything into oblivion by just even looking at it, and this example might not even be the strongest).

Only at that point you really need to start thinking. Be aware of everything around you, kite, kite, kite, get out of bad AoE, get in good AoE, heal yourself, interrupt. But before you reach that point, it costs you two hours of cheesing through the archive already..

My point is: playing two hours before anything challenging starts is perfectly withing reason in terms of difficulty scaling.

Depends on the player. Some of us struggle to get past arc 1.

If the scaling isn't changed then I suggest the threads change. 3 lives and your done.... is excessive with the current scale imo.

At least give us a verse that grants an additional life.

Well to be honest, arc 1 is as hard as normal Fungal Grotto 1. That is really the beginning of the game in terms of instanced content. Heck, the gathering of all the adds at the first boss inf nFG1 does more damage on you than anything in arc 1 in EA.

Of course, it is not fun to be stuck somewhere with the feeling you did everything what was in your power to complete it. Fortunately usually experience comes with time and some time later content considered to be to hard might be suddenly possible because the player has grown.

Maybe a solution for this would be that you cannot be wiped in arc 1? Sure, lose your threads, but even with 0 threads you get the possibility to finish arc 1 and the daily quest?

Edit: there is vision that gives you an additional thread, though you can only use it once in a run! Also you can buy an upgrade for an extra thread once you've completed one of the sidequest achievements. But the best of all (this one saved my life more than once): there is a verse that won't make you lose a thread once you die. Especially in later arcs when you only have 1 thread left it is available quite often.

There are no trial bosses in FG I, there is no Tho'at in FG I there are no DLC bosses in FG I. This is a false compariosn. In no way is Arc I as easy as FG I.

And FG1 doesn't take over an hour either. They are really nothing alike.

SilverBride

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I breeze through Arc 1 very easily until I get to this boss where I hit a brick wall and cannot progress. The difficulty of this boss is way out of proportion with the rest of the Arc. It needs to be brought down to a level that fits an entry level Arc.

Have you looked at your death recap? I'm willing to bet that you're being killed by 30-40k "Tho'at Shard" hits. The shards are those little blobs with health bars. Once they spawn, they start channeling damage that increases the longer you ignore it, until it kills you. You have to interrupt it while it has the telegraph lines flashing, or outright kill it. And if you don't keep up with killing the little guys, more of them will spawn, until you get overwhelmed.

The biggest issue is that I can't stop moving long enough to do much damage if any to the boss because of them constantly on top of me casting aoes that I have to keep moving to stay out of.

I have beat them playing duo with my friend on their character that holds aggro. But solo I have only beaten them once and that was only because I had a verse, I don't remember it's name but it was a big green eye that kept aggro off me. I've only found this once.

This is not my idea on an Arc 1 boss.

Necrotech_Master

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

I think the ideal solution would be to have the difficulty ramp up more slowly, so new players or players who want to solo or play with companions without feeling like the companion is a complete joke, or players with dexterity issues can play through multiple arcs. At present they pretty much get arc 1 and that's it.

This is exactly what the problem is and what should happen. Thank you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please take this into consideration. I would love to be able to enjoy more of this new feature.

ironically that is kindof how it was on the PTS before all of the changes and complaints that it was "too easy" and "boring" by the upper echelons of the PVE community.

I am perfectly fine if the content scales as time goes on, just that it scales within reason.

Endless Archive was sold to us as a progressive endurance test, not an opportunity for all of the ESO bosses to take revenge for all of the times they died to players.

But it's still like that isn't it?

For the first two arcs you have to do absolutely nothing except burn the adds and bosses, get out of bad AoE and enter good AoE. In arc 3 you need to be a bit more tanky and conscious of your environment and only when in arc 4 you start to rely on your offensive vision gathered, of which you should have had 9 choices already. (EDIT: for example the 37% offensive penetration one + ferocious strikes (15% bleed), ferocious support (50k+ bleed), focused efforts (200% status effect damage), attuned enchantments (60% stronger glyphs) on a heavy attack build. You will bleed everything into oblivion by just even looking at it, and this example might not even be the strongest).

Only at that point you really need to start thinking. Be aware of everything around you, kite, kite, kite, get out of bad AoE, get in good AoE, heal yourself, interrupt. But before you reach that point, it costs you two hours of cheesing through the archive already..

My point is: playing two hours before anything challenging starts is perfectly withing reason in terms of difficulty scaling.

Depends on the player. Some of us struggle to get past arc 1.

If the scaling isn't changed then I suggest the threads change. 3 lives and your done.... is excessive with the current scale imo.

At least give us a verse that grants an additional life.

Well to be honest, arc 1 is as hard as normal Fungal Grotto 1. That is really the beginning of the game in terms of instanced content. Heck, the gathering of all the adds at the first boss inf nFG1 does more damage on you than anything in arc 1 in EA.

Of course, it is not fun to be stuck somewhere with the feeling you did everything what was in your power to complete it. Fortunately usually experience comes with time and some time later content considered to be to hard might be suddenly possible because the player has grown.

Maybe a solution for this would be that you cannot be wiped in arc 1? Sure, lose your threads, but even with 0 threads you get the possibility to finish arc 1 and the daily quest?

Edit: there is vision that gives you an additional thread, though you can only use it once in a run! Also you can buy an upgrade for an extra thread once you've completed one of the sidequest achievements. But the best of all (this one saved my life more than once): there is a verse that won't make you lose a thread once you die. Especially in later arcs when you only have 1 thread left it is available quite often.

There are no trial bosses in FG I, there is no Tho'at in FG I there are no DLC bosses in FG I. This is a false compariosn. In no way is Arc I as easy as FG I.

And FG1 doesn't take over an hour either. They are really nothing alike.

thats why i compare arc 1 to normal maelstrom or normal vateshran, as both take roughly the same amount of time to complete as arc 1 (vateshran more than maelstrom because it is more mechanically intense than maelstrom)

Jaraal

Elsonso wrote: »

... and maybe the answer to Tho'at Arc 1 is to address those shards. Reduce the damage done, or make the channel damage increase slower, or increase the spawn time.

One of the problems is that attacking Tho'at Replicanum while she is using her shield makes the blobs spawn faster. Players will have a much easier time if they do something else when she shields.... like looking for blobs to kill.

EdjeSwift

Jaraal wrote: »

One of the problems is that attacking Tho'at Replicanum while she is using her shield makes the blobs spawn faster. Players will have a much easier time if they do something else when she shields.... like looking for blobs to kill.

The shield mechanic doesn't work like that, the shield drops golden Tho'at shards that hit quite hard once the shield drops. The blobs are independent of that.

Jaraal

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

One of the problems is that attacking Tho'at Replicanum while she is using her shield makes the blobs spawn faster. Players will have a much easier time if they do something else when she shields.... like looking for blobs to kill.

The shield mechanic doesn't work like that, the shield drops golden Tho'at shards that hit quite hard once the shield drops. The blobs are independent of that.

Well, that's good to know. I've never been hit by that, because once she goes into shield mode, I move far away to replenish resources and check for blobs.

Araneae6537

MoonPile wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Araneae6537 wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I've only gotten past the Arc 1 final boss one time solo and was only able to do that because I had a verse that was a giant green eye or orb that kept aggro off me so I could do damage. Without that I spend all my time running from the boss and the constant aoe and can't stand still long enough to do any damage.

That is a lot for Arc 1.

What class are you? If DK, try using Flames of Oblivion, and run multiple shields with Infernal Guardian for guided missile type damage that you can inflict while running/retreating if your DPS is low. IG is also a ranged AOE, and good for taking out those pesky range casters in the trash packs. Any class can also run Spiked Bone Shield, which gives you a 14k shield that returns 100% of melee damage to the attackers (and procs IG.)

Jorvuld's Guidance is great for extending the duration of your damage shields, as well as Major buffs. If you run Jorvuld's with Daedric Trickery, you will have 3 of the set's Major buffs up at all times overlapping. Also, certain werewolf builds are highly effective in the EA. Consider what sets might scale well with the layout of the Archive, and if you get the World skill buff verse, it's all over for the enemies.

If I have to micromanage as though I am going into a veteran trial for an Arc 1 boss then I give up trying to solo it.

And I still say this boss is disproportionately difficulty for Arc 1.

arc 1 tho'at isnt too much to manage, theres only like 4 mechanics you have to deal with

kite ice patches, dont do direct dmg to the mirror shield, kite the eye beam after she throws the sword, and block the heavy attack

in later tho'at fights you have to also deal with the additional bosses showing up in the fights, and managing to focus them down 1 at a time so your not dealing with more than 2 bosses at once

I honestly breathe a sigh of relief when I get to the Tho'ats, because the fights are pretty straightforward, and they give you plenty of room to work with... unlike the platforms. Just last night I pulled High Kinlord Rilis, which is usually a cakewalk, but at one point he put me in a blue bubble and literally chucked me off the platform to my death.

I'm not a fan of situations over which I have no control. The Tho'at fight is easy to control, once you understand exactly what is happening, and how to prioritize what's going on.

Any advice for facing Tho’at at the end of arc 3? Going to try again with a guildmate tomorrow!

Interrupt and kill the blobs first, don't stand in the silver puddles outlined in red, block her extremely telegraphed heavy attack, stay away from the laser beam, and stop damaging her when she uses the shield, as that spawns more blobs. While doing those things, focus on burning her down and ignore the shard atronach that spawns until she is dead. Then focus the atro, and ignore the manticora until the atro is dead, then kill the manticora, and collect your reward.

Be aware that the atro and manticora can spawn the blobs, just like Tho'at does. That is why it's important to focus one boss at a time, to avoid being overwhelmed by blob spawns that will one shot you if you leave them alone long enough. You need to be scanning the whole field for the blobs at all times. Master Malkhest will always be on one, but he can't kill one by himself. Adjust your area of affect color cue to something that stands out better in the black and silver than dark red does. Change it to pink or yellow for better visibilty. Also, when the manticora spawns shards in the sky, you have to roll dodge that the moment it falls or take heavy damage... a one shot if you aren't super tanky.

Well, we got to Tho’at 3.0 again — no problem with blobs and the human form goes down easy enough and then it’s chasing the ice atronachs all over, until the skyfall — got us multiple times! Well, as the tank I survived, but it took a huge chunk and I wasn’t able to get my partner back up fast enough. We’ll have to work on that…

But we defeated Gothmau both times he came at us — no deaths to him this time!

Try wearing Sea Serpent's Coil to mitigate 40% of that damage. The speed debuff is partially offset by the Archive speed upgrade you can buy, plus using gap closers to get around in most areas. And the extra damage you deal can cut your run times down a bit.

Hey! I'm the dead partner xD

I just looked up Sea Serpent's Coil, I don't have it. But it sounds like a bad idea... it says "after taking damage you snare yourself" -- snare would make me slower?

It's hard to see everything and react in time. I'm too slow to roll out of the sky falling, sometimes because I'm overwhelmed by trying to dps blobs + boss while dodging everything, sometimes because I've used up stamina *to* dodge and tentacle (Arcanist). The AOE color is not an issue, it's that there are so many AOEs going off all at once.

But if there is something I can easily get to help, or if I'm wrong about that snare, lmk! (I have most of the buff rewards except the one that needs Eye See You! for visions)

I normally use Deadly + Order's Wrath + ROPO at this point. That's the best I have.

Hey! xD You did awesome with damage, and not going down to the dragon, while I had delusions of being immune to anything he could dish out — even supernovae! xD

I haven’t used Serpent’s Coil, but I would think being snared upon taking damage would be bad for the Tho’at fights as there is sooo much aoe and a lot that I can’t pull or taunt — tentacles, atronachs, eye beams, the sky… But if there’s any mythic or set you’d like to try, I’m happy to help work at getting the leads or drops as needed — lmk!

I was using Leeching Plate and Arkasis but I’ll go with Drake’s Rush combined with either Arkasis or Elf Bane next time for even MORE ultimate and magma shell for us, although I think saving a barrier ultimate for when that hits will be even better as I think that has maximal damage mitigation. 🤔

Tandor

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

its been explicitly posted that the devs designed the archive around a 2 player team

I've seen player speculation to that effect, but has it actually been stated by the developers? If so, what is the source please?

spartaxoxo

Galeriano wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

People need to stop treating EA like another dungeon or arena where things can be easily burned through on a full DD setup. it's not that type of content. If You want to be succesfull there You need to chance Your mindset and stop following old comfortable rules. If You refuse to build properly You will be failing and it's completly Your fault.

Once again. Just build a tanky setup.

I did change my build to add some defense and it's not a full DD setup. But it shouldn't require a tank build for a single add that isn't even the boss of the arena. It should require more defense than one might usually use, but not a full tank setup.

If my build can handle tho'at, dragons, and lady thorn, it should be able to handle the marauder too.

There is a variety of verses and visions in the Endless Archive, that are designed to help a variety of build types complete it. If only one build type is able to perform because of an bonus loot add, then that add is overtuned and should be nerfed IMO.

You did not change enough than. You are still trying to play and think the old way at that is what dooms You. Marauders are real bosses of the arena. You get a pop up message every time they spawn and boss health bar on top of Your screen shows. Like is there more obvious way for developer to inform You that You will now encounter a special boss fight? Marauders are special boss events that require special preparation.

Fact that Your build can handle something else doesn't mean it should handle marauders. Like I already said EA is not like old content stop treating it as such. You are continously falling into the trap of thinking the old way. If You wont break from that You will be failing.

Yes there is variety of visions and verses in EA but some will natuarally be better than others so it's kinda obvious to be succesfull You want to build around those. Do You expect to complete trials in any setup just because there is many setups possible?

Any setup? No. A DPS setup, a tank setup, or a healer setup? Yes. I expect all 3 roles to function in a trial. Because I expect some build diversity.

If there is only 1 proper way to build for EA, due a single BONUS enemy (if you lose to him he despawns, he's a bonus not a regular boss) then it's obvious it's the enemy that needs a nerf.

And considering that I am on the leaderboard for EA, no, I don't fail EA in general. My build is fine for EA, it is a singular enemy that it doesn't work on. And it isn't even all variants of that enemy. The one that just wants to spam oceans all the time is fine for me.

Necrotech_Master

Jaraal wrote: »

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

One of the problems is that attacking Tho'at Replicanum while she is using her shield makes the blobs spawn faster. Players will have a much easier time if they do something else when she shields.... like looking for blobs to kill.

The shield mechanic doesn't work like that, the shield drops golden Tho'at shards that hit quite hard once the shield drops. The blobs are independent of that.

Well, that's good to know. I've never been hit by that, because once she goes into shield mode, I move far away to replenish resources and check for blobs.

the way the shield mechanic works is when you deal direct dmg it causes parts of the mirror shields to break off that then attack you

if you destroy a mirror, it spawns 4 shards simultaneously that attack you simultaneously

you can also still hurt tho'at with DoT dmg and that does not break the mirrors so like if your an arcanist you can keep beaming away and it wont do anything to the mirrors

the shards if they get broken off can be dodged, or healed through, though if you break a mirror you might want to try dodging as that hurts more getting hit by 4x at once

there are 3 mirrors as well, if all 3 break that is 12 total shards that can come at you + whatever shards spawned while you were dealing dmg to the mirrors

Jaraal

Araneae6537 wrote: »

I was using Leeching Plate and Arkasis but I’ll go with Drake’s Rush combined with either Arkasis or Elf Bane next time for even MORE ultimate and magma shell for us, although I think saving a barrier ultimate for when that hits will be even better as I think that has maximal damage mitigation. 🤔

The problem with Leeching Plate is that it's not a sticky DoT. If the mob(s) move out of the poison cloud (and the Tho'at fights are quite mobile), you are doing no damage and getting no heals. I've had good success with Venomous Smite, as once it procs (guaranteed with Stampede once it's off cooldown), it goes with them where they go... and the proc is magnified by things like Deadly Strike, necro Rapid Rot passive, DK poison/fire buff passive, etc.

MidniteOwl1913

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

I think the ideal solution would be to have the difficulty ramp up more slowly, so new players or players who want to solo or play with companions without feeling like the companion is a complete joke, or players with dexterity issues can play through multiple arcs. At present they pretty much get arc 1 and that's it.

This is exactly what the problem is and what should happen. Thank you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please take this into consideration. I would love to be able to enjoy more of this new feature.

ironically that is kindof how it was on the PTS before all of the changes and complaints that it was "too easy" and "boring" by the upper echelons of the PVE community.

I am perfectly fine if the content scales as time goes on, just that it scales within reason.

Endless Archive was sold to us as a progressive endurance test, not an opportunity for all of the ESO bosses to take revenge for all of the times they died to players.

But it's still like that isn't it?

For the first two arcs you have to do absolutely nothing except burn the adds and bosses, get out of bad AoE and enter good AoE. In arc 3 you need to be a bit more tanky and conscious of your environment and only when in arc 4 you start to rely on your offensive vision gathered, of which you should have had 9 choices already. (EDIT: for example the 37% offensive penetration one + ferocious strikes (15% bleed), ferocious support (50k+ bleed), focused efforts (200% status effect damage), attuned enchantments (60% stronger glyphs) on a heavy attack build. You will bleed everything into oblivion by just even looking at it, and this example might not even be the strongest).

Only at that point you really need to start thinking. Be aware of everything around you, kite, kite, kite, get out of bad AoE, get in good AoE, heal yourself, interrupt. But before you reach that point, it costs you two hours of cheesing through the archive already..

My point is: playing two hours before anything challenging starts is perfectly withing reason in terms of difficulty scaling.

Depends on the player. Some of us struggle to get past arc 1.

If the scaling isn't changed then I suggest the threads change. 3 lives and your done.... is excessive with the current scale imo.

At least give us a verse that grants an additional life.

Well to be honest, arc 1 is as hard as normal Fungal Grotto 1. That is really the beginning of the game in terms of instanced content. Heck, the gathering of all the adds at the first boss inf nFG1 does more damage on you than anything in arc 1 in EA.

Of course, it is not fun to be stuck somewhere with the feeling you did everything what was in your power to complete it. Fortunately usually experience comes with time and some time later content considered to be to hard might be suddenly possible because the player has grown.

Maybe a solution for this would be that you cannot be wiped in arc 1? Sure, lose your threads, but even with 0 threads you get the possibility to finish arc 1 and the daily quest?

Edit: there is vision that gives you an additional thread, though you can only use it once in a run! Also you can buy an upgrade for an extra thread once you've completed one of the sidequest achievements. But the best of all (this one saved my life more than once): there is a verse that won't make you lose a thread once you die. Especially in later arcs when you only have 1 thread left it is available quite often.

There are no trial bosses in FG I, there is no Tho'at in FG I there are no DLC bosses in FG I. This is a false compariosn. In no way is Arc I as easy as FG I.

And FG1 doesn't take over an hour either. They are really nothing alike.

thats why i compare arc 1 to normal maelstrom or normal vateshran, as both take roughly the same amount of time to complete as arc 1 (vateshran more than maelstrom because it is more mechanically intense than maelstrom)

I think arc one is more difficult than maelstrom. Maelstrom really only has two bosses (the ice and poison ones) that are in any way hard. Maelstrom is always the same every run. You can watch youtube videos of exactly what you will see in the arena. You can save and do something else at the end of every cycle. And with endless lives I could just save, and then keep going back to the situation that I was having trouble with until I succeeded. While it is closer than FG1 to EA, still, it's really not the same. Maelstrom at the end getting the last weapon took me about 40 minutes. With a tankier build to survive the occasional overturned boss I don't see me getting to the less than an hour mark in EA just for arc one.

Necrotech_Master

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Sirona_Starr wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

mercer_cap wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

ajkb78 wrote: »

I think the ideal solution would be to have the difficulty ramp up more slowly, so new players or players who want to solo or play with companions without feeling like the companion is a complete joke, or players with dexterity issues can play through multiple arcs. At present they pretty much get arc 1 and that's it.

This is exactly what the problem is and what should happen. Thank you.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Please take this into consideration. I would love to be able to enjoy more of this new feature.

ironically that is kindof how it was on the PTS before all of the changes and complaints that it was "too easy" and "boring" by the upper echelons of the PVE community.

I am perfectly fine if the content scales as time goes on, just that it scales within reason.

Endless Archive was sold to us as a progressive endurance test, not an opportunity for all of the ESO bosses to take revenge for all of the times they died to players.

But it's still like that isn't it?

For the first two arcs you have to do absolutely nothing except burn the adds and bosses, get out of bad AoE and enter good AoE. In arc 3 you need to be a bit more tanky and conscious of your environment and only when in arc 4 you start to rely on your offensive vision gathered, of which you should have had 9 choices already. (EDIT: for example the 37% offensive penetration one + ferocious strikes (15% bleed), ferocious support (50k+ bleed), focused efforts (200% status effect damage), attuned enchantments (60% stronger glyphs) on a heavy attack build. You will bleed everything into oblivion by just even looking at it, and this example might not even be the strongest).

Only at that point you really need to start thinking. Be aware of everything around you, kite, kite, kite, get out of bad AoE, get in good AoE, heal yourself, interrupt. But before you reach that point, it costs you two hours of cheesing through the archive already..

My point is: playing two hours before anything challenging starts is perfectly withing reason in terms of difficulty scaling.

Depends on the player. Some of us struggle to get past arc 1.

If the scaling isn't changed then I suggest the threads change. 3 lives and your done.... is excessive with the current scale imo.

At least give us a verse that grants an additional life.

Well to be honest, arc 1 is as hard as normal Fungal Grotto 1. That is really the beginning of the game in terms of instanced content. Heck, the gathering of all the adds at the first boss inf nFG1 does more damage on you than anything in arc 1 in EA.

Of course, it is not fun to be stuck somewhere with the feeling you did everything what was in your power to complete it. Fortunately usually experience comes with time and some time later content considered to be to hard might be suddenly possible because the player has grown.

Maybe a solution for this would be that you cannot be wiped in arc 1? Sure, lose your threads, but even with 0 threads you get the possibility to finish arc 1 and the daily quest?

Edit: there is vision that gives you an additional thread, though you can only use it once in a run! Also you can buy an upgrade for an extra thread once you've completed one of the sidequest achievements. But the best of all (this one saved my life more than once): there is a verse that won't make you lose a thread once you die. Especially in later arcs when you only have 1 thread left it is available quite often.

There are no trial bosses in FG I, there is no Tho'at in FG I there are no DLC bosses in FG I. This is a false compariosn. In no way is Arc I as easy as FG I.

And FG1 doesn't take over an hour either. They are really nothing alike.

thats why i compare arc 1 to normal maelstrom or normal vateshran, as both take roughly the same amount of time to complete as arc 1 (vateshran more than maelstrom because it is more mechanically intense than maelstrom)

I think arc one is more difficult than maelstrom. Maelstrom really only has two bosses (the ice and poison ones) that are in any way hard. Maelstrom is always the same every run. You can watch youtube videos of exactly what you will see in the arena. You can save and do something else at the end of every cycle. While it is closer than FG1 to EA, still, it's really not the same. Maelstrom at the end getting the last weapon took me about 40 minutes. With a tankier build to survive the occasional overturned boss I don't see me getting to the less than an hour mark in EA just for arc one.

i would agree that arc 1 is more difficult than normal maelstrom, normal vateshran is also a little more difficult than normal maelstrom too

my avg time to finish normal maelstrom is about 35-40 min
my avg to finish normal vateshran is about 25-35 min (if im really speeding otherwise probably also close to 40 min)
my avg time to finish arc 1 is usually around 30-45 min (this tends to vary a lot, mainly if you do bonus portals, and which verses you get)

in a 2 person group getting to arc 9 is usually around 5 hours, which is an avg of 35 min per arc roughly (the actual speed of the arc does vary a huge amount depending on the verse and vision choices)

EdjeSwift

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Maelstrom at the end getting the last weapon took me about 40 minutes. With a tankier build to survive the occasional overturned boss I don't see me getting to the less than an hour mark in EA just for arc one.

If you're in it for just Arc 1 you don't need that tanky a build, just a damage shield and some self-healing. If you're a melee character, a 2H with Brawler and Pale Order should carry you through Act 1.