nightblades out of control in pvp

Vaqual · January 21

FoJul wrote: »

My only problem with this thread, is everyone is pointing at every good thing that nightblade has, and wanting it gone. The devs will never do that.

So lets list off everything I have saw so far (within this thread)

1.Cloak (obviously)
2. Merciless Resolve
3. The (best passives in the game)
4. The (best burst heal in the game)
5. The (best barspace utility in the game)
6. The (best Mobility in the game)
7. Mirage/Phantasmal
8. The (best stat coverage in the game)
9. the (best spammable in the game)

There are a few minor things mentioned, like off balance weaves that were mentioned.

So when talking about these things, you can choose 1 maybe 2 things at a time, but everyone has to agree what is the most broken out of this list, and what are their ideas for balancing? You can't change all these things. But also, you need to change at least something.

If everyone could agree on 1 major change and then 1 minor (so 2 things total above) and focus on that consistently, we might can actually get a change. But since everyone wants to come here and give a different answer, nothing will ever be changed.

For my personal opinion, I think 1 and 3 are the issue.

Cloak has always been a problem since day 1 of Eso.

Nightblade as class passives are mid, but when you take in the passives that the skills themselves has (like the Major bezerk on concealed) i think those are stats that nightblade doesn't need. Just from skill passives alone you get so many things.

350-400 Spell dmg passively from Merciless Resolve
Major bezerk from concealed
up to 100% cost reduction on roll dodge
15% mag and stam recovery
Major AND minor expedition
higher uptime on Strike from the shadows (Vamp passive, that nightblade is really the only class that can benefit from it fully)
Health return on kills
20% damage done.
Major and minor cowardice
Minor Courage.

Literally all these are applied to skills as Passives...I think nightblade has the most double/triple effect skills than any other class.

The class passives themselves are mid. Thats why they started adding passives to the skills.

I think the devs in the last 3 years have tried to hard to balance things, Instead of just raising a tooltip of concealed or raising the tooltip on other abilities, they had to add all of these extra stats, that PvP'ers learn to stack more efficiently. If we had a lot less of these extra stats like Major Bezerk and 20% unique damage done after incap. Things like this is what makes nightblade too strong.

I'd be willing to part with the red glow on Grim Focus, that should even things out.

Turtle_Bot · January 22

Part of the issue with trying to find something everyone agrees on when it comes to balancing NB is that once something seems like its agreed upon, someone pops in to defend their niche/RP build so the whole debate has to start all over.

The other thing is that while all of these things separately are fine, it's the fact that NB has ALL of them and each of them are separate issues when going against NB on different classes. So players will always have different perspectives on what are the issues because the issues are different when comparing to each of the other classes.

For example, from your list:

1.Cloak (obviously) - (this issue is generic to everyone)
2. Merciless Resolve - (this issue is more of a result of points 3 and 5)
3. The (best passives in the game) - (this is a fairly generic issue, but it's very noticeable for sorcs/cros who aren't allowed to have even half of what NB has)
4. The (best burst heal in the game) - (this is a fairly generic issue, mostly a result of points 3 and 5)
5. The (best barspace utility in the game) - (this is a fairly generic issue)
6. The (best Mobility in the game) - (this is a more sorc specific issue, sorcs entire defense depends on being mobile and NB counters this completely)
7. Mirage/Phantasmal - (this is mostly a melee plar issue (evasion), but also rough for sorcs as well due to the roll cost reduction)
8. The (best stat coverage in the game) - (result of points 3 and 5)
9. the (best spammable in the game) - (part of points 3 and 5)

So we can refine the list down to the following:
Generic issues (requires adjusting NB):

Cloak (obviously)
Best/most passives/effects in the game
Most efficient burst heal in the game
Most efficient bar space in the game

Class specific issues (better fixed by buffing/giving options to these specific classes):

Best mobility in the game (issue for sorc specifically, as outlined above)
Blur/mirage/phantasmal (issue for mostly melee plar and sort of for sorc as well, as outlined above)

The remaining points are really just extensions/results of these main points raised.

FoJul wrote: »

So lets list off everything I have saw so far (within this thread)
1.Cloak (obviously)
2. Merciless Resolve
3. The (best passives in the game)
4. The (best burst heal in the game)
5. The (best barspace utility in the game)
6. The (best Mobility in the game)
7. Mirage/Phantasmal
8. The (best stat coverage in the game)
9. the (best spammable in the game)

There are a few minor things mentioned, like off balance weaves that were mentioned.

So when talking about these things, you can choose 1 maybe 2 things at a time, but everyone has to agree what is the most broken out of this list, and what are their ideas for balancing? You can't change all these things. But also, you need to change at least something.

If everyone could agree on 1 major change and then 1 minor (so 2 things total above) and focus on that consistently, we might can actually get a change. But since everyone wants to come here and give a different answer, nothing will ever be changed.

For my personal opinion, I think 1 and 3 are the issue.

From your list of issues outlined in this thread, I would pick 1 & 3, 1 & 4, OR 1 & 5. Assuming in point 3, you meant a combination of buff/debuff/secondary effects on abilities, not exclusively the class passives.

Cloak is the most glaring issue, it never should have gotten prophecy/savagery, let alone applying that to both bars for free, all the time (what was ZOS thinking with this change...) They have also made it so much more reliable since the old days so the counters should have been updated to reflect that change, but they never were.
I have seen some suggestions to adjust cloak:
1. Make it so that if the NB breaks cloak by dealing damage, it has a reveal effect to prevent weaving cloak into an offensive rotation (this would in theory function like a ramping cost, but not actually increasing the cost, more trying to place a limit on abusing it so freely).
2. Limit cloak to only guarantee the crit when attacking in melee range (this is to prevent it from being abused at range like it currently is, which is partially why the counters are so ineffective right now).

The reason I could pick 3 (using my assumptions about your point) is that this is what is allowing MR to be so problematic. Up until NB got the crazy amount of damage modifiers added to anything and everything (including MR itself), MR was not much of an issue, it hit hard, but not absurdly hard.

The reason I could pick 4 is NB by design, is supposed to be squishy, it has cloak because it's not supposed to be able to survive outside of stealth and evasion and offering just throws that entire concept out the window with how strong and efficient that ability is. Offering (your point 4) would be better balanced imo if it was the other morph of invis over removing it entirely. This way NB can still play the invisible assassin and the generic brawler class, but not both at the same time, but this change fits better into your point 5.

The reason I could pick 5 is this would do something similar to 3. By spreading the buffs/effects/passives out more and forcing the bar space to be less efficient you solve some of the issues that 3 raises because NB will then have less bar space to fit so many of their effects onto their bars.

If I had to choose, it would probably be 1 and 5. By moving abilities around and spreading out the secondary effects that NB has, forcing them to clog up their bars with more balanced abilities to get the same power, it partially solves points 3 and 4 depending on how much that efficiency is lowered.

The issue with this change is that there would have to be a bunch of PvE exclusive changes made at the same time so NB doesn't drop off there, but this is a result of ZOS refusing to utilize battle spirit and the "against monsters" clause more when making balance changes.

Galeriano · January 22

FoJul wrote: »

Cloak has always been a problem since day 1 of Eso.

It's not cloak that is an issue, it's a nightblade and devs refusal to balance it.

There are two classes with unique evasiveness features in the game sorc and nightblade and when You compare roards they traveled during last 10 years You can see how one class is favoured over the other. Both classes were problematic in early stages of the game. Sorc had strong mobility, good defense with shields, adventage of being ranged and having nice control over the enemies with good CCs and good burst dmg. Nightblade had good defense through evasiveness and stealth, good mobility, decent control over the enemies and very high burst.

When You look at sorc ZoS targeted almost every of the mentioned aspects and nerfed it. Streak recived a nerf so it is more expensive to cast multiple times in a row, ball of lightning which had strong projectile absorption had it nerfed to the ground. Shields and shieldstacking recived series of nerfs from shortening the shield duration, through removing crit resist to caping shield values. Ranged capabilities of sorc were nerfed by removing acces to reliable ranged stuns in crystal frag and rune prison and replacing them with stun on streak that forces sorc to engage in meele fight if he wants to stun enemy. At the same time mines were nerfed so sorcs can't use them to effectively control meele attackers. Sorc's burst dmg went back and forth through series of adjustments. So at the end of the day from having all of the things mentioned earlier almost everything was nerfed and only one aspect which is mobility remained on a decent level. ZoS even removed overload 3rd bar so sorcs would'nt have enough space for better utility managments. They also added close to none minor/major buffs and debuffs to sorc's kit to compensate for sometimes really massive nerfs to core sorc abilities. During last 4-5 years more noticable PvP buffs were latest bound armanets passively working on both bars and adding minor berserk and minor force. it's almost laughable.

On the other hand we have a nightblade that even when recived some nerfs or tweaks, later on they were heavily compensated sometimes resulting with initially nerfed thing becoming stronger than it was. Nightbade still have good defense through evasiveness and stealth, even better mobility, even better control over the enemies and his very high burst remained very high. Class also recived a spammable burst healing which it was always lacking and not just some average burst healing but one of the better in the game.

Double standards when it comes to nightblade are more than obvious. When sorc recived series of nerfs to aspects he was shining in, nightblade not only recived barely any noticable nerfs or even buffs to aspects he was shining in but he also started to shine in new areas. The only fair route to balance cloak would be to do the same to nb that ZoS did to sorc and nerf literally everything else.

Twohothardware · January 22

I've watched a few of the more recent PC dueling tournaments and didn't notice any Nightblades beating out the top DKs, Templars, MagSorcs, ect.

Galeriano · January 22

Twohothardware wrote: »

I've watched a few of the more recent PC dueling tournaments and didn't notice any Nightblades beating out the top DKs, Templars, MagSorcs, ect.

How many encounters in Cyro, IC and BGs are pure uninterrupted 1v1 fights with duel ready setups and with predetermined rules of what can and cannot be used? This is rhetorical question.

Duelling tournaments give close to zero view on state of PvP class balance outside of duelling tournaments.

StarOfElyon · January 22

reazea wrote: »

NB's now have huge burst damage combined with huge burst heal. It's just bad design IMO. Either the heal or the damage needs a nerf. And there should not be a way to stay cloaked while in combat. If a player initiates a fight, they should have to fight, not hit cloak and keep fighting while invisible.

Yes, the burst heal is problematic and took away the biggest weakness in this supposedly hit and run class. I would rather see the burst heal reduced and Dark Cloak buffed to make non-cloak builds more viable without adding power to cloak builds.

FoJul · January 22

StarOfElyon wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

NB's now have huge burst damage combined with huge burst heal. It's just bad design IMO. Either the heal or the damage needs a nerf. And there should not be a way to stay cloaked while in combat. If a player initiates a fight, they should have to fight, not hit cloak and keep fighting while invisible.

Yes, the burst heal is problematic and took away the biggest weakness in this supposedly hit and run class. I would rather see the burst heal reduced and Dark Cloak buffed to make non-cloak builds more viable without adding power to cloak builds.

As a nightblade main, I could 100% live with this.

The only problem is, I didn't see you mention a ramping cost to cloak, or a minor cooldown, or anything addressing the spamming of a defensive and offensive skill.

FoJul · January 22

Galeriano wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

I've watched a few of the more recent PC dueling tournaments and didn't notice any Nightblades beating out the top DKs, Templars, MagSorcs, ect.

How many encounters in Cyro, IC and BGs are pure uninterrupted 1v1 fights with duel ready setups and with predetermined rules of what can and cannot be used? This is rhetorical question.

Duelling tournaments give close to zero view on state of PvP class balance outside of duelling tournaments.

There is a reason CLoak is the first thing banned in tournaments. It's like an automatic ban for any tournament. It's because the vets can openly tell you, that ability is not fair.

Galeriano · January 23

FoJul wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

I've watched a few of the more recent PC dueling tournaments and didn't notice any Nightblades beating out the top DKs, Templars, MagSorcs, ect.

How many encounters in Cyro, IC and BGs are pure uninterrupted 1v1 fights with duel ready setups and with predetermined rules of what can and cannot be used? This is rhetorical question.

Duelling tournaments give close to zero view on state of PvP class balance outside of duelling tournaments.

There is a reason CLoak is the first thing banned in tournaments. It's like an automatic ban for any tournament. It's because the vets can openly tell you, that ability is not fair.

This is also a reason why nightblades will never shine to their full potential in duel tournaments. A staged duel with predetermined set of rules instantly diminishes nightblade's main PvP adevntage which is element of suprise and freedom to move and hide anywhere.

StaticWave · January 23

Twohothardware wrote: »

I've watched a few of the more recent PC dueling tournaments and didn't notice any Nightblades beating out the top DKs, Templars, MagSorcs, ect.

Dueling tournaments try to be as close to balance as possible but don’t really paint the whole picture because the ruleset can only do so much.

Some classes do really well under ruleset but get stomped in normal PvP. NB is competitive under ruleset, and is top tier in normal PvP.

Btw, whoever makes the tournament rules dictates how a class performs, kinda like how ZOS dictates whether NB is OP or not

StarOfElyon · January 23

FoJul wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

reazea wrote: »

NB's now have huge burst damage combined with huge burst heal. It's just bad design IMO. Either the heal or the damage needs a nerf. And there should not be a way to stay cloaked while in combat. If a player initiates a fight, they should have to fight, not hit cloak and keep fighting while invisible.

Yes, the burst heal is problematic and took away the biggest weakness in this supposedly hit and run class. I would rather see the burst heal reduced and Dark Cloak buffed to make non-cloak builds more viable without adding power to cloak builds.

As a nightblade main, I could 100% live with this.

The only problem is, I didn't see you mention a ramping cost to cloak, or a minor cooldown, or anything addressing the spamming of a defensive and offensive skill.

That's because I always carry detect potions and I find that the major imbalance is in their ability to burst heal and that is what keeps me from being able to finish a fight. Being able to cloak and burst heal is broken. I sacrifice by having to use detect potions, they should have to sacrifice that burst heal.

Prionyx · January 30

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

Zabagad · January 30

Prionyx wrote: »

because NB is DEAD in pvp

Sure - that's the reason why 30% of the Cyro player play NBs.
But the devs hear you anyway and thank god NB will receive even more buffs with U41

Galeriano · January 30

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

TechMaybeHic · January 30

[Snip]

Used to be NB had to be played at a high level to be good, otherwise; it was just snipe spammers from range trying to play with minimal risk because they weren't really good.

Now; I play NB because I only play maybe 2 or 3 times a week, if that; and it's easy burst and survivability. Even with cloak being easily broken; so much innate speed, as many heals as anyone else, and cloak is essential a magicka dodge while phantasmal reduces dodge cost and potentially making it free. And; I have zero reliance on procs

[Edited for trolling]

Prionyx · January 30

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

SandandStars · January 31

yeah i basically dodge merciless every time i’m stunned by incap

piece of cake

i also heal up and heavy attack while i’m stunned by incap

silver1surfer69 · January 31

Panderbander wrote: »

If you listen close enough you can hear the echo of someone saying "but it can be roll dodged"

Did anyone here realize that the next comment after this was "...but it can be dodged". Wuuhhhahaha^^.

Galeriano · January 31

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

Wierd because good players I know also from EU server agree with me.

Fact that people can dodge Your combo doesn't mean it's no longer a combo. Everyone will dodge it? Seriously EVERYONE is dodging Your incap+merciless? And I assume they must be doing it 100% of a time. That seems like a massive skill isuue on Your side. Shalks damage is undodgable because with the same setup warden will hit with it for 40-60% less than nb will with merciless and shalks can't be unloaded out of nowhere by cloaked warden. That is the whole point. You have a stealth and You have a massive tooltip on mecriless don't expect to be treated like classes who don't have that.

But if You want to be treated the same than You're free to start a thread asking ZoS to make merciless undodgable. Keep in mind that in order for Your thread to make sense You need to also mention that You want to reduce merciless dmg by 40-60% and make it impossible to cast while invisible and for like 2 seconds after leaving invisibility so You won't be able to unload incap+ new undodgable merciless from stealth. Oh and You will also have to ask ZOS to add a visual and sound cue informing others that You have 5 stacks of merciless charged same way every other burst ability have visual and sound cue. After that when merciless will share the same core features as other undodgable burst abilities, You will be free to land Your undodgable merciless all the time.

boi_anachronism_ · January 31

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

On a personal level: i dont know why they added the concealed buff to stealth that was an absolutely terrible move and really unnecessary..

They mentioned it before, rather it be in a developer comment on the actual patch notes when it happened. They exclaimed, that almost all the classes were doing 10% more DPS all around or something of that matter so they added a 10% *Unique* buff.

They did nerf it, and make it Major bezerk, cause that Unique 10% stacked with Bezerk, so in PvE Nightblades had an *Overtune*. Especially in PvP.

The fact of the matter is, they could've raised the Tool tip on abilities like Swallow soul/Cripple/Ambush/Twisting path. Basically skills that are DoTs or skills that are unused.

Nightblade is in a wierd spot, where it's strong in PvP, and lacking in PvE. When this happens, Zos has to be really careful.

It is only weak in PvE because bosses are basically damage sponges that far exceeds the amount of health any tank in PvP can have.

honestly its weak because it has no cleave. Its good for single bosses and portals. Its next to useless for trash packs or if you have multiple bosses or minis in fights.

StarOfElyon · January 31

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

If you stun them with incap, they can't dodge hardest hitting skill in the game that comes after it.

FoJul · February 1

[\quote] If you stun them with incap, they can't dodge hardest hitting skill in the game that comes after it.[/quote]

lol

Edit, still dont know how to reply to quote snippits and not 7 pages of replies

Prionyx · February 1

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

Wierd because good players I know also from EU server agree with me.

Fact that people can dodge Your combo doesn't mean it's no longer a combo. Everyone will dodge it? Seriously EVERYONE is dodging Your incap+merciless? And I assume they must be doing it 100% of a time. That seems like a massive skill isuue on Your side. Shalks damage is undodgable because with the same setup warden will hit with it for 40-60% less than nb will with merciless and shalks can't be unloaded out of nowhere by cloaked warden. That is the whole point. You have a stealth and You have a massive tooltip on mecriless don't expect to be treated like classes who don't have that.

But if You want to be treated the same than You're free to start a thread asking ZoS to make merciless undodgable. Keep in mind that in order for Your thread to make sense You need to also mention that You want to reduce merciless dmg by 40-60% and make it impossible to cast while invisible and for like 2 seconds after leaving invisibility so You won't be able to unload incap+ new undodgable merciless from stealth. Oh and You will also have to ask ZOS to add a visual and sound cue informing others that You have 5 stacks of merciless charged same way every other burst ability have visual and sound cue. After that when merciless will share the same core features as other undodgable burst abilities, You will be free to land Your undodgable merciless all the time.

Do you even know the definition of this word? If you press random skills it's not a combo. If warden have hitted you with DB in the right timing you are dead and there is no counterplay to it if you already have done a mistake. Same applies to every other class EXCLUDING NB because NB doesn't have a guaranteed damage... Point is not that it's dodgable, point is that it's worst special class skill in the game because you can't combine with anything. Did you seriously say that I'm a low skill player because I can't do something that is technically impossible? If you say I'm low skill player I'll gladly welcome you in Alikr to prove your point, but don't cry after I kill you in 20 seconds, ok?

Also I have started a thread where I said why and how NB should be buffed, one of the points here is that one morph should be reworked to have 3.5 seconds delay but deal 30% less damage

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651531/simple-changes-to-make-nb-good-and-why-they-are-needed

Prionyx · February 1

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

If you stun them with incap, they can't dodge hardest hitting skill in the game that comes after it.

They can't if they have started playing this game few days ago, if you can't dodge merciless after incap you are very new player with no experience

Major_Toughness · February 1

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

If you stun them with incap, they can't dodge hardest hitting skill in the game that comes after it.

Yes you can because you can break free and dodge/block before the bow hits.

TechMaybeHic · February 1

Prionyx wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

If you stun them with incap, they can't dodge hardest hitting skill in the game that comes after it.

They can't if they have started playing this game few days ago, if you can't dodge merciless after incap you are very new player with no experience

You don't ever anticipate that and just cloak and wait for the roll then merciless with a guaranteed crit?

emilyhyoyeon · February 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

If you stun them with incap, they can't dodge hardest hitting skill in the game that comes after it.

They can't if they have started playing this game few days ago, if you can't dodge merciless after incap you are very new player with no experience

You don't ever anticipate that and just cloak and wait for the roll then merciless with a guaranteed crit?

If I get incap stunned by a NB and don't get merciless arrowed when I dodgeroll, I stay on the defensive until the incap buff wears out/the NB uses arrow which isn't really a problem because at that point I have a shield up and can be blocking when I finally hear the arrow noise. Thankfully arrow has a built in latency.

FTR I agree NB needs adjustments but not with merciless arrow.

DrNukenstein · February 1

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

You don't ever anticipate that and just cloak and wait for the roll then merciless with a guaranteed crit?

If you do that, they will heal and then they won't die.

Galeriano · February 7

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

Prionyx wrote: »

silentxthreat wrote: »

every nightblade stacks crit damage. with rally cry up 6 inpen they still crit for 18k+ with a non ult skill merc bow. they made it very easy to get stacks. either buff inpen, nerf crit damage or nerf nightblade... atm if you only pvp in this game there is zero reason to play if you are not a nightblade. a lot of other games are looking good right now

You must be very new to game if you say that second worst class in the entre game needs a nerf... Currently NB is second worst class in PVP due to it's lack of burst potential, NB doesn't have a single burst ability like warden, sorc, DK, templar and necro does, the only way to play NB is to run full proc build, you will not have enough damage to kill a good player otherwise. Warden's combo deals up to 30k damage while NB doesn't even have a burst combo whatsoever... Good players just always dodge bows after incap and that's it, it's not guaratneed unlike other combos and that's what makes it worst. There is nothing you can do as NB. I'm ready to give 100 million gold to anyone pointing that NB is good if you will kill my warden as NB, and it's not because I have billionds of gold, I just know that there is no such player who will actually do this because NB is DEAD in pvp

What? Like seriously what? Lack of a burst potential? Second worst class in PvP? It seems like it is You who must be very new to the game because nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential in the game. When other classes like mentioned warden, dk, sorc, templar or necro require to combine few abilities into their combo nightblade can deal similar amount of damage with just 1 ability, merciless resolve. Just compare tooltips. Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game. Good nightblades know how to land their bows and incaps, only mediocre players use these abilities in a super predictable manner but the thing is every burst combo on every class will fail if the user makes it too predictable, nightblade even the weak one can atleast make it less predictable with the help of cloak. Other combos are also not guaranteed, properly used dodge or block can screw every combo comnpletly. I mean sure You can come into duel with something like 40-50k HP warden spamming polar wind and claiming that nb is weak because it can't kill it but guess what, every class can't kill that in a duel, this is why in duel tournaments there are rulesets like HP caps. Also fact that nb is not a top dog in a duel doesn;t make it less strong in real PvP. How many fights in actuall PvP are staged duels? Going with Your logic I can bring unkillable tank and claim that everyone who won't kill me plays weak class and it will turn out every class is weak. Or I can just play uno reverse on You and claim that if You won't kill nb with Your warden than warden is garbage and I can guarantee You that I can make a nightblade that warden simply won't kill. Nightblade is the most popular class in PvP atm and it says something.

"nightblade currently is a top tier PvP setup mainly thanks to the highest burst potential" - most of the good players would just stop reading your message after that because you clearly don't know what you are talking about... But I will keep going for a bit...

" Properly built nb can deal close to 20-30k dmg just with merciless and incap+merciless is the highest hitting combo in the game." - ok there is no point, "incap+merciless combo"??? That is not a combo because everyone will just dodge mecriless after incap... You can't dodge warden's shalks while you are stunned by DB or acrtic or dyzzing, warden's damage is guaratnreed, NB's is not... That's the whole point. You can land incap for sure but the only thing you can do after is hit your enemy with a spammable... It's not a combo. NB doesn't have any class burst tools whatsoever. I've played this game for years and have 11k+ hours on NB, many players consider me to be one of the best EU's NBs so I clearly know what I'm talking about and I'm far from being new to game.

Wierd because good players I know also from EU server agree with me.

Fact that people can dodge Your combo doesn't mean it's no longer a combo. Everyone will dodge it? Seriously EVERYONE is dodging Your incap+merciless? And I assume they must be doing it 100% of a time. That seems like a massive skill isuue on Your side. Shalks damage is undodgable because with the same setup warden will hit with it for 40-60% less than nb will with merciless and shalks can't be unloaded out of nowhere by cloaked warden. That is the whole point. You have a stealth and You have a massive tooltip on mecriless don't expect to be treated like classes who don't have that.

But if You want to be treated the same than You're free to start a thread asking ZoS to make merciless undodgable. Keep in mind that in order for Your thread to make sense You need to also mention that You want to reduce merciless dmg by 40-60% and make it impossible to cast while invisible and for like 2 seconds after leaving invisibility so You won't be able to unload incap+ new undodgable merciless from stealth. Oh and You will also have to ask ZOS to add a visual and sound cue informing others that You have 5 stacks of merciless charged same way every other burst ability have visual and sound cue. After that when merciless will share the same core features as other undodgable burst abilities, You will be free to land Your undodgable merciless all the time.

Do you even know the definition of this word? If you press random skills it's not a combo. If warden have hitted you with DB in the right timing you are dead and there is no counterplay to it if you already have done a mistake. Same applies to every other class EXCLUDING NB because NB doesn't have a guaranteed damage... Point is not that it's dodgable, point is that it's worst special class skill in the game because you can't combine with anything. Did you seriously say that I'm a low skill player because I can't do something that is technically impossible? If you say I'm low skill player I'll gladly welcome you in Alikr to prove your point, but don't cry after I kill you in 20 seconds, ok?

Also I have started a thread where I said why and how NB should be buffed, one of the points here is that one morph should be reworked to have 3.5 seconds delay but deal 30% less damage

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/651531/simple-changes-to-make-nb-good-and-why-they-are-needed

Yes I do know definition of word combo. It means nothing more than two or more things combined together. In ESO we usually use that terms to specific group of combos called burst combos which usually reffer to combination of two or more things combined together resulting with significant amount of damage being applied in short period of time, usually 1-2 seconds. By these definitions even LA+merciless resolve could be considered a combo due to how much damage merciless already have although people usually prefer to use term burst combo to combos that have some stun in them but than HA+merciless on off balanced target fills the bill.

If nightblade will hit me in the right moment with merciless I am as dead as when warden will hit me with right timing with BD combo. Nightblade is not exception here. There is a counterplay to wardern combo, You can block it, dodge the dizzy to mess up his whole burst etc. Saying that there is no counterplay to something when it lands perfectly is just meaningless. Going with Your logic there is no counterplay to incap+merciless "if you already have done a mistake". You can combine merciless with many things even as simple as medium attack on target off balanced with concealed weapon and that HA+merciless will be a burst combo that also have stun in it. You can't combine it with anything in a way other classes can and You shouldn't be since nightblade operates on very different rulesets than other classes. Wardens can't just walk up to someone unnoticed whenever they want and use dawnbreaker, shalks etc out of nowhere and they definietly can't repeat that procces.

If landing a mercilesss is technically impossible than how is it possible that many people still have it in their death recaps? Should they report nightblades that hit them because something technically impossible happened? I am not saying You're a low skill player I am saying that You're overreacting. Fact that it's hard to land merciless on a skilled player in a 1v1 doesn't mean it's technically impossible to land. It's harder to land anything on a skilled player when compared to low skilled player.

3,5 sec delay and only 30% less dmg is a massive buff to merciless that would broke the game completly. That is one of the reasons why Your thread wasn't recived so well. Like I've said already it would require 40-60% dmg nerf, inability to use it from stealth and like 2 sec after leaving stealth and grapical+visual cue informing that it was activated and will fire up soon. Nightblade in current state simply cannot have ultra high hitting delayed burst ability that he can also use from stealth as long as he have acces to cloak and burst healing at the same time. Right now PvP is flooded with nightblades due to how easy and effective certain version of class are and it would just empower that setup even more. One of the reasons why game can;t get rid of tanky meta is nightblade existance and any buffs to nightblade combo giving it more dmg and making it more reliable to land would end up with even more tanky meta basically screwing everyone just because nb exists.

StarOfElyon · February 7

My necro wears Markyn, NMA, and Wretch Vitality with 25k health in Battle Grounds. The only reason we're in a "tanky meta" is that everyone is scared to die in PVP.