StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
Because it feels a bit like an insult to the readers intelligence to repeat essentially the same thing over and over. NBs have access to abilities that give them a lot of stats and you are unhappy about it. I think everyone got that the first time.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
Because it feels a bit like an insult to the readers intelligence to repeat essentially the same thing over and over. NBs have access to abilities that give them a lot of stats and you are unhappy about it. I think everyone got that the first time.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
Because it feels a bit like an insult to the readers intelligence to repeat essentially the same thing over and over. NBs have access to abilities that give them a lot of stats and you are unhappy about it. I think everyone got that the first time.
And this applies to all the buff threads with literally the same arguments that get repeated too. Are you implying that they're an insult to the readers' intelligence as well? No, they get repeated so people who are new to the thread get access to information without having to scroll through many pages.
"StaticWave wrote: »And this applies to all the buff threads with literally the same arguments that get repeated too. Are you implying that they're an insult to the readers' intelligence as well?
StaticWave wrote: »Like I said, you can ignore it instead of making an irrelevant sarcastic comment, just like how I ignore many comments I don't want to respond to in many threads.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
Because it feels a bit like an insult to the readers intelligence to repeat essentially the same thing over and over. NBs have access to abilities that give them a lot of stats and you are unhappy about it. I think everyone got that the first time.
And this applies to all the buff threads with literally the same arguments that get repeated too. Are you implying that they're an insult to the readers' intelligence as well? No, they get repeated so people who are new to the thread get access to information without having to scroll through many pages.
I do think that it decreases the quality of the discussion if the thread is reset to 0 every 2 pages. Repeating the same opinion without adding anything worthwhile just dilutes the discussion and makes it tedious to follow the thread."StaticWave wrote: »And this applies to all the buff threads with literally the same arguments that get repeated too. Are you implying that they're an insult to the readers' intelligence as well?
Yes. If it is already written everyone can read the existing posts. It just invites the same trivial answers to be repeated and polarizes the thread.StaticWave wrote: »Like I said, you can ignore it instead of making an irrelevant sarcastic comment, just like how I ignore many comments I don't want to respond to in many threads.
I somehow doubt that you would ignore it if someone kept asking for sorc nerfs in multiple threads using the same couple arguments (however valid they may be). But sure, if that is your wish, consider it done.
Sorry for the repeated off-topic.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
Because it feels a bit like an insult to the readers intelligence to repeat essentially the same thing over and over. NBs have access to abilities that give them a lot of stats and you are unhappy about it. I think everyone got that the first time.
And this applies to all the buff threads with literally the same arguments that get repeated too. Are you implying that they're an insult to the readers' intelligence as well? No, they get repeated so people who are new to the thread get access to information without having to scroll through many pages.
I do think that it decreases the quality of the discussion if the thread is reset to 0 every 2 pages. Repeating the same opinion without adding anything worthwhile just dilutes the discussion and makes it tedious to follow the thread."StaticWave wrote: »And this applies to all the buff threads with literally the same arguments that get repeated too. Are you implying that they're an insult to the readers' intelligence as well?
Yes. If it is already written everyone can read the existing posts. It just invites the same trivial answers to be repeated and polarizes the thread.StaticWave wrote: »Like I said, you can ignore it instead of making an irrelevant sarcastic comment, just like how I ignore many comments I don't want to respond to in many threads.
I somehow doubt that you would ignore it if someone kept asking for sorc nerfs in multiple threads using the same couple arguments (however valid they may be). But sure, if that is your wish, consider it done.
Sorry for the repeated off-topic.
I showed people how strong NB is in a proper build and in a meme build. Going from a competitive build to a non competitive build and still having decent stats is nowhere near repetitive of an argument. It’s rather extra insight into the argument. If I didn’t raise that point, would people think NB is THAT strong? I don’t think so. You don’t expect a class to have decent stats in full random gear with blue quality lol.
If the points regarding sorc nerfs are valid then I would simply agree with them and help bring the point across. Didn’t I once state I argued against my own class?
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »You can't possibly defend this class at this point imo if a build with random gear pieces in blue quality can still match a proper golded out build.
You have shown for the 11th time that the same sources for additional WD add WD. This has changed my life.
And I’m showing how a NB in RANDOM BLUE GEARS still gets the same stats as many golded out builds with complete 5 piece sets and a mythic. No other class can achieve this feat lol. It’s ridiculous and idk why ur sarcastic about it.
Because it feels a bit like an insult to the readers intelligence to repeat essentially the same thing over and over. NBs have access to abilities that give them a lot of stats and you are unhappy about it. I think everyone got that the first time.
StaticWave wrote: »So I put my best stat hybrid sorc build on a NB and the result is well.. unsurprising. I think it's still worth it to put it up here so people who are unaware can look at the current situation.
Link to Sorc build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=590518
Link to NB build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=590929
I disabled CP, included all possible buffs and debuffs (applied to targets), and kept all sets the same for both classes. The only thing I changed was attribute points. Here are the stats for both classes fully buffed without continuous:
Sorc:
The 1000 pen from Cwep isn't added to the pen stat, so I have to manually add it:
NB:
The 300 WD from Assassin's Will isn't added to the WD stat, so I have to manually add it:
So basically, these are the things that NB has over Sorc:
- 555 more WD
- 8% more crit chance
- 12% more crit damage
- 10% dmg done at all times compared to Amplitude (which is only 10% at 100% HP and diminishes when your target's HP gets lower)
- 20% unnamed vulnerability
- Major Evasion
- 4s snare cleanse and immunity
- Free dodge roll every few seconds
- Minor Cowardice, making the NB tankier
- Invisibility
- Forced 100% crit chance
- Major Endurance for not needing to use crit potions
- Minor Mending
- Access to an execute because its burst has equivalent dmg to 2 of Sorc's burst abilities (Cwep + Bound Armaments)
- AoE spammable to wipe groups if using Soul Tether or Dawnbreaker
I won't be biased though. These are the things Sorc has over NB:
- Unmatched offensive healing (with this particular build of course)
- Shield to prevent dying from a burst combo
- Several soft counters to stealthy players ( Curse, Streak, and Bound Armaments)
- Better AoE DoTs
- Offensive combo is less likely to be fully mitigated by block/roll dodge (Curse can only be cleansed)
- Better ability to create distance with Streak (if you have a high magicka pool and your opponent isn't speed capped with a gap closer)
- Can block better due to having several sustain passives from blocking and Dark Deal
That's just about everything Sorc has over NB. Sorc can't match NB in terms of stat density, bar space efficiency, or tankiness. I won't even mention Sorc having an AoE stun as an advantage because NB does have Mass Hysteria, which not only is an unblockable/undodgable AoE stun, but also applies Major Cowardice to affected targets. You can basically reduce your opponents' weapon/spell damage by a total of 645, making you even tankier.
Seriously, NB is just 3x better while in the same build. I don't even know why I'm playing Sorc when I can hop on NB, slot Mist Form, and be a pseudo Sorc with better burst, better healing and tankiness, and overall just a better class.
StaticWave wrote: »So I put my best stat hybrid sorc build on a NB and the result is well.. unsurprising. I think it's still worth it to put it up here so people who are unaware can look at the current situation.
Link to Sorc build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=590518
Link to NB build:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor?id=590929
I disabled CP, included all possible buffs and debuffs (applied to targets), and kept all sets the same for both classes. The only thing I changed was attribute points. Here are the stats for both classes fully buffed without continuous:
Sorc:
The 1000 pen from Cwep isn't added to the pen stat, so I have to manually add it:
NB:
The 300 WD from Assassin's Will isn't added to the WD stat, so I have to manually add it:
So basically, these are the things that NB has over Sorc:
- 555 more WD
- 8% more crit chance
- 12% more crit damage
- 10% dmg done at all times compared to Amplitude (which is only 10% at 100% HP and diminishes when your target's HP gets lower)
- 20% unnamed vulnerability
- Major Evasion
- 4s snare cleanse and immunity
- Free dodge roll every few seconds
- Minor Cowardice, making the NB tankier
- Invisibility
- Forced 100% crit chance
- Major Endurance for not needing to use crit potions
- Minor Mending
- Access to an execute because its burst has equivalent dmg to 2 of Sorc's burst abilities (Cwep + Bound Armaments)
- AoE spammable to wipe groups if using Soul Tether or Dawnbreaker
I won't be biased though. These are the things Sorc has over NB:
- Unmatched offensive healing (with this particular build of course)
- Shield to prevent dying from a burst combo
- Several soft counters to stealthy players ( Curse, Streak, and Bound Armaments)
- Better AoE DoTs
- Offensive combo is less likely to be fully mitigated by block/roll dodge (Curse can only be cleansed)
- Better ability to create distance with Streak (if you have a high magicka pool and your opponent isn't speed capped with a gap closer)
- Can block better due to having several sustain passives from blocking and Dark Deal
That's just about everything Sorc has over NB. Sorc can't match NB in terms of stat density, bar space efficiency, or tankiness. I won't even mention Sorc having an AoE stun as an advantage because NB does have Mass Hysteria, which not only is an unblockable/undodgable AoE stun, but also applies Major Cowardice to affected targets. You can basically reduce your opponents' weapon/spell damage by a total of 645, making you even tankier.
Seriously, NB is just 3x better while in the same build. I don't even know why I'm playing Sorc when I can hop on NB, slot Mist Form, and be a pseudo Sorc with better burst, better healing and tankiness, and overall just a better class.
The key difference in your argument. Is in PvP, sorcs have streak and their entire kit is ranged. EDIT (I remember a lot of people getting ranged nightblade nerfed in pvp because of this mindset -> (Ranged classes shouldnt be able to do insane damage and get a way Scott free) So yeah nightblade might have Cloak and even shade, for mobility and mitagation. But if a sorc has even just 1 swift jewlry or Celerity, Most likely your running RaT for the snare removal and speed and crit. RaT+Celerity+Streak+more skill than a monkey, you practically CANNOT die.
I mean you can go ahead and tell me how OP rangeblade is, but at that point your being extremely biased. Rangeblade is D maybe even F tier.
EDIT: Lemme go ahead and add , Gankblades are exceptions, because they trade plenty of stats to be able to do that. If you die to gankblade=Skill issue.
The point being on sorc you can streak into a fight explode someone in 3-4 seconds, and then streak right away. In duels, we saw not to long ago Sorcs dominate even the highest tier nightblades in a 1v1 tournament. (Check Fe7ons twitch, should be December 2 or 4).
That all being said. Im still suprised people are complaining about Nightblades. IMO Dk's are and have been the most unbalanced. But it is what it is I guess.
DrNukenstein wrote: »
Then maybe make the cloak crit melee only (next ability used on target within 8 meters)
<snip>
Add a short revealed effect after breaking cloak with a damaging ability. Melee is used to not being able to immediately return to stealth.
Make Merciless resolve stacks reset outside of combat in PVP again.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
ZOS never balanced classes. This is a factual statement and instead they used set items to balance gameplay. You probably did not PVP when Sorcerers ruled supreme with their pre-prepped 20k+ crystal frags. Each class has their OP characteristics but to the average player those attributes are not learned or realized. I am objectively saying this because this one player did prove to those who claim NB is the most OP class by doing the same stupid high burst with other classes.
PVP is also a playfield with variation of skills and playstyles. Some playstyles do not anticipate the stealthing opponent and that differences do not classify the class to be OP. Stamina versions have always been stronger than magic-based NB; it is like ZOS decided stamina == PVP and magicka == PVE while many of the other classes do not have this issue.
Nightblades are strong now. However, this cannot be stressed enough, those players who are not able to handle stealthing opponents will claim Nightblades are overpowering. There are so many counters to stealth it's stupid and everyone can crouch into stealth and move with equal speed because gankers do not use Concealed Weapon.
Nightblades are strong now. However, this cannot be stressed enough, those players who are not able to handle stealthing opponents will claim Nightblades are overpowering. There are so many counters to stealth it's stupid and everyone can crouch into stealth and move with equal speed because gankers do not use Concealed Weapon.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
ZOS never balanced classes. This is a factual statement and instead they used set items to balance gameplay. You probably did not PVP when Sorcerers ruled supreme with their pre-prepped 20k+ crystal frags. Each class has their OP characteristics but to the average player those attributes are not learned or realized. I am objectively saying this because this one player did prove to those who claim NB is the most OP class by doing the same stupid high burst with other classes.
PVP is also a playfield with variation of skills and playstyles. Some playstyles do not anticipate the stealthing opponent and that differences do not classify the class to be OP. Stamina versions have always been stronger than magic-based NB; it is like ZOS decided stamina == PVP and magicka == PVE while many of the other classes do not have this issue.
Nightblades are strong now. However, this cannot be stressed enough, those players who are not able to handle stealthing opponents will claim Nightblades are overpowering. There are so many counters to stealth it's stupid and everyone can crouch into stealth and move with equal speed because gankers do not use Concealed Weapon.
Turtle_Bot wrote: »
Offering needs its cost reworked, remove the self DoT and make it cost the same magicka (4590) as other burst heals. It was a cute idea to try out the split cost thing, but the 25% reduced magicka cost it has at base over other equivalent burst heals is something that simply enables far too much sustain and defense that frees up far too much for NB.
Turtle_Bot wrote: »Sorcs "cannot die" [snip], that's a good one, you should take that bit to a comedy club.
Sorc can't run RaT without giving up something else more important for it, so no major expedition unless sorc runs the objectively worse boundless storm over hurricane (then sorc doesn't have access to minor expedition).
Sorcs jewelry traits are 3 bloodthirsty because that's how sorc is able to deal enough damage to enemies below 50% health thanks to the undeath passive and block mitigation giving everyone so much mitigation at low health while sorcs damage passive falls off the lower the enemies health is.
Celerity is common, I'll grant you that one, but sorc does have to give up a mitigation or sustain CP (sustained by suffering, survival instincts, or pains refuge) to slot it (this is on top of giving up something already for bastion CP) and thanks to the limited defensive options sorc has in its class kit, this is more punishing to do than on other classes who can make up for this by slotting a defensive ability. This goes even further when players have high ping and require slotting something like slippery to not instantly die to any hard CC (which has many bugs currently).
Finally, Sorc is already struggling to fit magelight/camohunter onto it's bars and those will always be slotted before RaT because crit surge (the class HoT) requires dealing CRITICAL damage to proc its heal since its not a proper HoT like every other class has access to on top of vigor.
A typical Sorc bar layout in PvP will be as follows:FB: bound arm/curse/magelight/camo hunter, spammable of choice*, curse/frags, ward/vigor, streak, overload/atro/meteor.
BB: crit surge, ele sus, curse/vigor, dark deal/conversion, hurricane, defensive ult/overload.
* Spammable is typically a world/weapon ability.
Where exactly is sorc supposed to fit RaT on either bar? The only abilities that it can swap around are frags, curse, vigor, ward mage/camo or lastly tri-stat potions. All of these require giving up something more important than what RaT provides, especially since dark deal already gives minor force meaning you only get half the benefit from RaT.
Drop frags = no blood magic passive (even less healing), no cheaper casts, potentially less uptime of minor prophecy
Drop curse = significantly lower burst potential
Drop vigor = no reliable self HoT/minor resolve
Drop ele sus = no breach
Drop crit surge = no brutality/sorcery/offensive healing
Drop hurricane = forced to use chudan = very restricted build options
Drop ward = no temp health buffer to let the offensive HoTs do their job
Drop bound arm = no +8% health without double casting ward and lower burst potential
Drop Magelight/camo = no major prophecy = lower uptime on crit surge (this is currently the most "dropped" ability)
Drop dark deal = what burst heal
Drop tri-stat potions = huge sustain loss, which in turn limits everything else.
So what exactly is sorc going to drop to fit RaT onto their bar? Especially the currently strongest sorc build: proc sorc (which slots dark deal over dark conversion) that will only get half benefit from RaT.
Sorc has not had the bar space to include non-critical utility abilities like RaT and still keep the essentials like other classes can, ever since overloads third bar was removed, even when it doesn't run the pets. This is because sorc still is forced to run 4+ damage abilities to attempt to pull off the "burst combos" that people like to use as the reason sorc is so strong and ZOS refuses to give sorc access to all of the basic buffs/debuffs that every class should have...
Curious about that tournament, was cloak banned? Overtuned/broken defensive abilities tend to be banned in serious high level tournaments because the organizers want the TTK to be very low to prevent long drawn out tournaments and stalemates. Most abilities/builds also considered "cheese", tend to be banned as well because organizers typically see those as crutch/carry abilities/builds and less about testing a players skill.
Traditional gankblades (bows) are currently fine, but the latest force pulse gank blades are definitely becoming a big issue very quickly. Ranged 1 shots (or at least 90% of a non-squishy players health within 1 second from range) that can spam cloak from a distance that exceeds the range of the counters to cloak AND it has all the healing and evasion of brawler blades, with the advantages of ranged playstyle and the damage of gank builds.
I ran a similar build that is a half ganker/half brawler recently and it still chunks 50% of a players health instantly (from range) and it has even more healing and defense than the typical set-up for this build because I was running a defensive set back bar.
DK's are much less oppressive now than they were in previous patches. The change to corrosive to prevent gaining ultimate while in that form (something that should have been done a long time ago) has really neutered what made DK so oppressive in previous patches without completely killing the class (just like many of us said would happen).
Corrosive is still an insane ultimate, but now that it cannot have a near permanent uptime, DKs feel much less oppressive to fight against as there is an actual window to pressure and kill them. This is probably why there aren't as many complaints about them anymore.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
I disagree, Dk has had the crown for a good while. I know I don't die to most nightblade's anymore and many of my friends dominate nightblades. The ceiling is high on nightblades, and incap bow isn't going to work forever.
Dk gets the best sustain, the most pressure, can still hit 10-15k whips, Leap ranged stun ult that can hit up to 20k...Corrosive 93% damage mitagation and 100% pen, BALANCED. Lets not mention their ult gen, base resistances, and still get 2 different burst heals. One of the burst heals is a stun so you cant counter it.
DK>NB and its not even close.
Also if you think current Nightblade is the strongest to ever exist, you must not have played in pvp content long. Templar just a year and a half ago was probably the strongest meta i witnessed... Rangeplar being almost uncounterable, while have healing incomparable to any class.
Rangeblade, in 5 heavy with the old evasion was stupid busted in 2016
DK just a few months ago were leaping in corrosive. LOL
Necro when they first came out would be 100k hp (in ultimate form) and Bash everything to death ( this was cancer).
necro bombs still exist and still are extrremely effective even after nerfs.
There have been alot of metas and extremely broken concepts. But Nightblade having cloak is nothing new.
No matter what you do to the class you are going to have backlash. Whether that be a few minor adjustments, a rework, a complete ground smashing nerf, or just keep releasing new expansions with new classes and just forget nightblade exist.
In my honest opinion, everyone should quit hoping for PvP changes, cause Zos clearly doesn't care about the communities opinion. Everyone on the forums wants either 1 class nerfed or 1 class buffed. No one looks at the total balancing of ESO anymore.
I think cloak isnt the issue personally. I think being able to have 35k resistances..8k spell dmg.. 120% crit damage and 40% crit chance all while having 2300+ recoveries and around 24k max magicka is the problem. In the golden days of ESO you had to do hell of a sacrifce to even get 1 of those mega stats. Now all these stats are pretty much given to you. Thats why you have everyone running in Tank sets and Procs. Cause building into stats is non existent.
All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
ZOS never balanced classes. This is a factual statement and instead they used set items to balance gameplay. You probably did not PVP when Sorcerers ruled supreme with their pre-prepped 20k+ crystal frags. Each class has their OP characteristics but to the average player those attributes are not learned or realized. I am objectively saying this because this one player did prove to those who claim NB is the most OP class by doing the same stupid high burst with other classes.
PVP is also a playfield with variation of skills and playstyles. Some playstyles do not anticipate the stealthing opponent and that differences do not classify the class to be OP. Stamina versions have always been stronger than magic-based NB; it is like ZOS decided stamina == PVP and magicka == PVE while many of the other classes do not have this issue.
Nightblades are strong now. However, this cannot be stressed enough, those players who are not able to handle stealthing opponents will claim Nightblades are overpowering. There are so many counters to stealth it's stupid and everyone can crouch into stealth and move with equal speed because gankers do not use Concealed Weapon.
TechMaybeHic wrote: »They shoukd tie resists rather than just heavy armor to stealth detection radius and cloak effectiveness should also be impacted by that. And it should be more harsh.
Want to be a ganker? OK, but if you want to be able to just disappear, you'll need to truly be glass.
Want to be a brawler? OK but you will not just disappear and have to deal with all tge down sides if other brawler classes.
You could still make use of shadow image then, but you can't just HOT up and spam that
Going back to the sorc vs nightblade...Sorc can get 50k max magicka and have a 20k c frag Tooltip. Nightblade can have the same ammount of magicka...but way less damage on the tooltips. Sorc gets better max mag scaling, and they have since the dawn of time. Thats why sorcs stack in max magicka and crit.
When it comes to defensive tools, Cloak>Streak in some situations, and Streak>Cloak in some situations. When it comes to bar space management. Every build has an option. Most stats has an a 2nd option. You can get a sorc to have similar stats to a nightblade. So the argument would only be in the barspace and cloak. Stam Sorc, does recieve less love when it comes to builds, but magsorc is in a really good spot, imo.
But every class has its weakness. Every class has its strengths. That being said all in favor of removing Shadowy disguise.
StaticWave wrote: »All classes can be made into beasts. I know a beta Nightblade player that is probably in the top 1-3% and expert on the class. He is good, really good and scary to watch his discord stream of his gameplay, and he can call out which sets his target is running by the buffs and skill usages and drop even the tank-y players.
He was once called out by others how broken Nightblade class is. In response, he made a Templar "Gank" Build to prove any class has the potential to be a "Ganker" or execute high burst damage in seconds. That it was not the Nightblade class that was broken but players not understanding their own class or how to pick sets. Too many PVP players do not often play with counters to stealth and become bitter when one drops them.
And the shocking part about any of his builds: The ESO streamers and popular online guides for NB PVP builds are off the mark on gear choices and skill picks. Whereas many players turn to other class guides and expect their PVP experience to be the same as the content providers: and it is often not.
On the topic of Nightblades being OP - they're not. They have a high ceiling for learning how to play the class and several PVP players do not use counters or overly rely on ball group protection to keep them safe from the stealthing opponent.
Except NB's are the most OP class in PvP right now. They have the highest burst damage and the highest burst heal in the game right now. And they have a strong stun and cloak on top of all that. Yes, there is a learning curve to play them well, but that doesn't mean they aren't the most OP class in PvP probably ever in the history of the game right now. Class balance in Cyrodiil right now is the worst it's ever been.
ZOS never balanced classes. This is a factual statement and instead they used set items to balance gameplay. You probably did not PVP when Sorcerers ruled supreme with their pre-prepped 20k+ crystal frags. Each class has their OP characteristics but to the average player those attributes are not learned or realized. I am objectively saying this because this one player did prove to those who claim NB is the most OP class by doing the same stupid high burst with other classes.
PVP is also a playfield with variation of skills and playstyles. Some playstyles do not anticipate the stealthing opponent and that differences do not classify the class to be OP. Stamina versions have always been stronger than magic-based NB; it is like ZOS decided stamina == PVP and magicka == PVE while many of the other classes do not have this issue.
Nightblades are strong now. However, this cannot be stressed enough, those players who are not able to handle stealthing opponents will claim Nightblades are overpowering. There are so many counters to stealth it's stupid and everyone can crouch into stealth and move with equal speed because gankers do not use Concealed Weapon.
The cloaking NBs I fight against run 29-30k armor with 3.5k+ critical resistance. They aren’t going to die even if you reveal them. Oh let’s not forget they also have Major and Minor Expedition on top of a strong burst heal spammable.
Don’t you think it’s a bit absurd that a tanky brawlerblade can just Cloak around?