Columbine prices are getting out of hand.

spartaxoxo

The core problem is the lack of availability of tripots to PvPers, because they are expected to spend hours every day doing an activity they don't like. So yeah it does, just like the spell power pots did.

StaticWave

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Here's what this thread is currently looking:

Many players: "Columbine price is too high, we can't afford it for potions and food"
Some traders: "Just grind the mats"
Many players: "But the time invested doesn't yield enough mats to sustain our gameplay"
Some traders: "Then you should participate in more aspects of the game"
Also some traders: "I trade a lot and don't actually participate enough in activities that consume a lot of items requiring Columbine"

Lol, traders don't actually care about the health of the game. They want to keep the status quo and protect their own trading gameplay while the vast majority of other aspects of the game involving combat suffer.

This is a 10 year old game. At this point, there is no reason to gatekeep the most important and core material. Like, the suggestions we give aren't even detrimental to their trading gameplay. Adding Tri-pots to PvP vendor, AP alchemy bags, etc. don't affect trading at all. Look at AP spell potions for example, it's been years after its introduction and normal spell power potions haven't dropped significantly in price.

To be perfectly fair here Columbine and tri pots being used in the majority of content and in both pve and pvp is a recent development. Columbine for several years was a lower tier mat when corn flower and magicka builds were all the rage for years. To the point where players were complaining about corn flower prices getting out of hand.

So let's set something straight here, players control the market, players sell, players buy, players go take the time to farm. It's not the traders fault for charging what people are willing to pay for the mat.

I am a trader, and I agree that it stinks that it's gotten so high. And yes I think that adjustments need to be made. See my post earlier about solutions


Bet let's also be a bit realistic here, the soonest anything is going to happen is Q1 update of 2024, and that's being optimistic.

Oh yea I'm very well aware of Cornflower prices back then. But ZOS also influenced the market by introducing AP Spell potions and that helped tremendously with Cornflower price. They need to do the same for Tri-stat potions by introducing AP Tri-stat potions.

i have more crown tri pots clogging up inventory than you can shake a stick at from the log on rewards.

That means you haven’t done enough combat related content to burn through them.

no that just means horses for courses, i dont use pots unless the content requires it, eg vma in under 1 hour with no power ups or pots but a build designed for the content, vet dlc dungeons mostly dont need pots , again down to build. prog group vet trials now thats a different thing they need a lot of good pots not crown tri pots.

I don’t see the point though. Hard content will always demand more and it’s usually then that the underlying issues of the game surface.

I can argue that if the majority of content as you implied doesn’t require using potions, then ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources WON’T interfere with said content, no?

wolfie1.0.

How about making a tri pot for AP that can only be used in IC and Cyrodiil?

Just tossing the idea out there

TimeWizard

People seem to be forgetting that allowing people to buy tripots for AP helps all playerbases (except possibly mat farmers)

Columbine is unreasonably high right now. This is because almost every BIS potion for any endgame player of either PVE or PVP uses this. Of these potions the most common one is tripots.

PVPers use tripots or immovable pots, Tanks use tripots or dual stat heroism pots, most PVE DPS use tripots or dual stat heroism pots, PVE Healers use spell power pots, heriosm pots, or tripots. Almost all of these use columbine and the one everyone has in common is tripots.

Adding tripots as an option to purchase with AP is both in line with weapon pots and spell pots being purchaseble with AP, and is a valuable boost to PVP rewards with currently are lacklaster, you can currently gamble with boxes or buy potions nearly no one uses. Telvar is a seperate currency and is aquirable is a zone not many people play in that is a mixture of PVP and PVE, in fact the most efficient gauranteed way of farming telvar is topside PVE bosses. Saying PVErs already have a source through alchemy bundles in IC is a half truth at best.

Now for the PVErs crying that adding tripots for purchase with AP isnt fair, guess where a ton of those tripots will end up? In guild traders, for purchase with gold, a currency easily available by PVEing. This would lower the cost of playing for most endgame builds, while not removing the high cost of playing at the highest level (players who scorepush use heriosm potions and the prices for those are mostly determined by the cost of Dragon Rheum, not the cost of Columbine.)

In short, adding tripots for purchase with AP is overall good. It will help every playstyle.

TimeWizard

also, to pushback against all the people saying just farm it.
I, in an average day, go through between 400-800 tripots. This is 100-200 Columbine, PER DAY. Farming this amount out is not resonable for me, especially since pure mat farming is not something I enjoy. When I am out in open world. I do try to pick up what mats I run into, but I mostly run dungeons, trials, and PVP. I buy tripots or mats for tripots with gold. If tripots were available with AP, I would save a lot of gold, whether I bought them with gold as I do now, or with AP.
I personally have to gold to buy the amount of pots I go through, but when I run any content, I do so at a gold defecit.

Evilspock

Survey Farming Trick:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fZChsINcWqc?feature=share

manukartofanu

I'll leave the link here for clarity. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/440779/a-new-source-for-dawn-prisms
What was the first response to those who complained about the prices of Dawn-Prisms? Exactly! 'Earn more gold in other areas and buy it from us!' Now, you're on the other side.

It's evident that PvPers primarily seek another overpriced source of gold instead of addressing the inflation issue. By the way, what's the current price of Dawn-Prisms? The AP is supposed to have a 2:1 ratio to gold. Yet, prisms are still priced over 12.5k, and sometimes they are priced over 25k.

EF321

.

manukartofanu wrote: »

It's evident that PvPers primarily seek another overpriced source of gold instead of addressing the inflation issue.

You don't even have to go that far in the past, it's here on page 8

If tanks need tripots they can buy them in guild store from PvP players

A change that helps everyone indeed...

MudcrabAttack

Columbine has been around 3k for a really long time, Just realized the chart was bugged, it’s 4K now, which is pretty ugly. But the Arcanist PVE bump doesn’t seem nearly as big as the Deadlands bump.

However last week I just ran out of the stash of free tripots for logging in over the years, and started burning through my craft bag supply of Columbine. Maybe others are getting into the same situation.

ecru

DizzyMac wrote: »

given that Deadly is the Arcanist META and only available in Cyro for AP before selling in vendors - PVP players should just list Deadly gear with an extra 0 on the price..

inline with what other have said about PVPers should have to farm themselves or pay the higher price, PVPers can apply the same principle to gear like Deadly. .. i'm sure those who refuse to pvp and need a deadly lightning staff would have no problem paying 50 million gold for it

While this is true, you don't really need deadly unless you are score pushing or doing trifectas. It just isn't necessary for 99.9% of the game. You can get by with other sets. You cannot just pvp or tank without tripots though. It will break the experience, and quite literally cause you to die as you run out of resources. Losing 5k dps will in a trial will not impact your game like this, and no amount of dummy humping will make you "good" enough to make up for the lack of resources/sustain from tripots. It really isn't the same at all IMO.

wolfie1.0.

manukartofanu wrote: »

I'll leave the link here for clarity. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/440779/a-new-source-for-dawn-prisms
What was the first response to those who complained about the prices of Dawn-Prisms? Exactly! 'Earn more gold in other areas and buy it from us!' Now, you're on the other side.

It's evident that PvPers primarily seek another overpriced source of gold instead of addressing the inflation issue. By the way, what's the current price of Dawn-Prisms? The AP is supposed to have a 2:1 ratio to gold. Yet, prisms are still priced over 12.5k, and sometimes they are priced over 25k.

I mean to be fair ZOS did drop the price in AP on dawn prisms. And with the jewelry changes The jewelry vendors will be nerfed too.

Is really that unreasonable to throw pvpers a boon as a result?

sarahthes

ecru wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

given that Deadly is the Arcanist META and only available in Cyro for AP before selling in vendors - PVP players should just list Deadly gear with an extra 0 on the price..

inline with what other have said about PVPers should have to farm themselves or pay the higher price, PVPers can apply the same principle to gear like Deadly. .. i'm sure those who refuse to pvp and need a deadly lightning staff would have no problem paying 50 million gold for it

While this is true, you don't really need deadly unless you are score pushing or doing trifectas. It just isn't necessary for 99.9% of the game. You can get by with other sets. You cannot just pvp or tank without tripots though. It will break the experience, and quite literally cause you to die as you run out of resources. Losing 5k dps will in a trial will not impact your game like this, and no amount of dummy humping will make you "good" enough to make up for the lack of resources/sustain from tripots. It really isn't the same at all IMO.

The people scorepushing and doing trifectas are the ones using all the columbine. Like I don't know why people keep saying PvPers and tanks are the ones using columbine. The DPS meta classes and setups are using them too! That's the problem! Everyone is using it! I only play DPS and heal. I use between 600-1200 tripots a week, and yes I'm playing in content that requires that level of min maxxing.

The really sweaty folks who use ulti pots? Each raid costs them approximately 2 million gold.

Not sure how I'm going to afford it when my vrg HM core is doing well enough to start calling ourselves a PB core. Oof.

Alastrine

TimeWizard wrote: »

also, to pushback against all the people saying just farm it.
I, in an average day, go through between 400-800 tripots. This is 100-200 Columbine, PER DAY. Farming this amount out is not resonable for me, especially since pure mat farming is not something I enjoy. When I am out in open world. I do try to pick up what mats I run into, but I mostly run dungeons, trials, and PVP. I buy tripots or mats for tripots with gold. If tripots were available with AP, I would save a lot of gold, whether I bought them with gold as I do now, or with AP.
I personally have to gold to buy the amount of pots I go through, but when I run any content, I do so at a gold defecit.

So, pay those that do farm for what you need.
They aren't telling you to just farm it... they are saying if you DON"T want to farm it then be prepared to pay others to do those hours of farming for you. It's that simple.

But, something you need, could farm for but don't wish to (and thats fine), but also don't want to pay others to do that for you, you want the game devs to provide for you.

As another said, this sounds like the shoe on the other foot when non-pvpers complained about the price of dawn prisms - as pointed out, the answer from pvpers was, use some of that gold you are making and buy the prisms from us! Sound familiar?

There are lots of items that I would love but either don't want to, or am unable to, farm for myself. People that do run those areas to get and sell those items charge a lot for them... and I'm ok with paying for that. So how about you get what you need given to you from the game devs and I get the dawn prisms, and all the other stuff that I need but don't/can't/won't farm for?
It goes all ways. Lets all get everything we want just given to us by the game then.

maxjapank

Alastrine wrote: »

So, pay those that do farm for what you need.
They aren't telling you to just farm it... they are saying if you DON"T want to farm it then be prepared to pay others to do those hours of farming for you. It's that simple.

Pvp'rs are only asking for tri-pots. They are not asking for Columbine, which is also used for other pots. Columbine will still be valuable to sell.

wolfie1.0.

maxjapank wrote: »

Alastrine wrote: »

So, pay those that do farm for what you need.
They aren't telling you to just farm it... they are saying if you DON"T want to farm it then be prepared to pay others to do those hours of farming for you. It's that simple.

Pvp'rs are only asking for tri-pots. They are not asking for Columbine, which is also used for other pots. Columbine will still be valuable to sell.

I still think alchemist satchel for AP is a good idea and a balanced approach though. I know it would get some pve people into pvp just for that.

Isteris

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Here's what this thread is currently looking:

Many players: "Columbine price is too high, we can't afford it for potions and food"
Some traders: "Just grind the mats"
Many players: "But the time invested doesn't yield enough mats to sustain our gameplay"
Some traders: "Then you should participate in more aspects of the game"
Also some traders: "I trade a lot and don't actually participate enough in activities that consume a lot of items requiring Columbine"

Lol, traders don't actually care about the health of the game. They want to keep the status quo and protect their own trading gameplay while the vast majority of other aspects of the game involving combat suffer.

This is a 10 year old game. At this point, there is no reason to gatekeep the most important and core material. Like, the suggestions we give aren't even detrimental to their trading gameplay. Adding Tri-pots to PvP vendor, AP alchemy bags, etc. don't affect trading at all. Look at AP spell potions for example, it's been years after its introduction and normal spell power potions haven't dropped significantly in price.

To be perfectly fair here Columbine and tri pots being used in the majority of content and in both pve and pvp is a recent development. Columbine for several years was a lower tier mat when corn flower and magicka builds were all the rage for years. To the point where players were complaining about corn flower prices getting out of hand.

So let's set something straight here, players control the market, players sell, players buy, players go take the time to farm. It's not the traders fault for charging what people are willing to pay for the mat.

I am a trader, and I agree that it stinks that it's gotten so high. And yes I think that adjustments need to be made. See my post earlier about solutions


Bet let's also be a bit realistic here, the soonest anything is going to happen is Q1 update of 2024, and that's being optimistic.

Oh yea I'm very well aware of Cornflower prices back then. But ZOS also influenced the market by introducing AP Spell potions and that helped tremendously with Cornflower price. They need to do the same for Tri-stat potions by introducing AP Tri-stat potions.

i have more crown tri pots clogging up inventory than you can shake a stick at from the log on rewards.

That means you haven’t done enough combat related content to burn through them.

no that just means horses for courses, i dont use pots unless the content requires it, eg vma in under 1 hour with no power ups or pots but a build designed for the content, vet dlc dungeons mostly dont need pots , again down to build. prog group vet trials now thats a different thing they need a lot of good pots not crown tri pots.

I don’t see the point though. Hard content will always demand more and it’s usually then that the underlying issues of the game surface.

I can argue that if the majority of content as you implied doesn’t require using potions, then ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources WON’T interfere with said content, no?

I have absolutely no problem with ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources , as I have said before I'm neither a trader or a farmer. I just saying that there are ways to mitigate the pot costs one of them being what and how you build for the content you enjoy. Being a bit more resilient and not relying on a lot of pots costs you a bit of damage output but hey I find my 70k more than enough other than perhaps trial hard modes and yes before you say it I am giving up maybe 50k but for most content it doesn't really matter.

sarahthes

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Here's what this thread is currently looking:

Many players: "Columbine price is too high, we can't afford it for potions and food"
Some traders: "Just grind the mats"
Many players: "But the time invested doesn't yield enough mats to sustain our gameplay"
Some traders: "Then you should participate in more aspects of the game"
Also some traders: "I trade a lot and don't actually participate enough in activities that consume a lot of items requiring Columbine"

Lol, traders don't actually care about the health of the game. They want to keep the status quo and protect their own trading gameplay while the vast majority of other aspects of the game involving combat suffer.

This is a 10 year old game. At this point, there is no reason to gatekeep the most important and core material. Like, the suggestions we give aren't even detrimental to their trading gameplay. Adding Tri-pots to PvP vendor, AP alchemy bags, etc. don't affect trading at all. Look at AP spell potions for example, it's been years after its introduction and normal spell power potions haven't dropped significantly in price.

To be perfectly fair here Columbine and tri pots being used in the majority of content and in both pve and pvp is a recent development. Columbine for several years was a lower tier mat when corn flower and magicka builds were all the rage for years. To the point where players were complaining about corn flower prices getting out of hand.

So let's set something straight here, players control the market, players sell, players buy, players go take the time to farm. It's not the traders fault for charging what people are willing to pay for the mat.

I am a trader, and I agree that it stinks that it's gotten so high. And yes I think that adjustments need to be made. See my post earlier about solutions


Bet let's also be a bit realistic here, the soonest anything is going to happen is Q1 update of 2024, and that's being optimistic.

Oh yea I'm very well aware of Cornflower prices back then. But ZOS also influenced the market by introducing AP Spell potions and that helped tremendously with Cornflower price. They need to do the same for Tri-stat potions by introducing AP Tri-stat potions.

i have more crown tri pots clogging up inventory than you can shake a stick at from the log on rewards.

That means you haven’t done enough combat related content to burn through them.

no that just means horses for courses, i dont use pots unless the content requires it, eg vma in under 1 hour with no power ups or pots but a build designed for the content, vet dlc dungeons mostly dont need pots , again down to build. prog group vet trials now thats a different thing they need a lot of good pots not crown tri pots.

I don’t see the point though. Hard content will always demand more and it’s usually then that the underlying issues of the game surface.

I can argue that if the majority of content as you implied doesn’t require using potions, then ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources WON’T interfere with said content, no?

I have absolutely no problem with ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources , as I have said before I'm neither a trader or a farmer. I just saying that there are ways to mitigate the pot costs one of them being what and how you build for the content you enjoy. Being a bit more resilient and not relying on a lot of pots costs you a bit of damage output but hey I find my 70k more than enough other than perhaps trial hard modes and yes before you say it I am giving up maybe 50k but for most content it doesn't really matter.

This doesn't help those of us doing trifectas or scorepushing LOL

Turtle_Bot

sarahthes wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Isteris wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Here's what this thread is currently looking:

Many players: "Columbine price is too high, we can't afford it for potions and food"
Some traders: "Just grind the mats"
Many players: "But the time invested doesn't yield enough mats to sustain our gameplay"
Some traders: "Then you should participate in more aspects of the game"
Also some traders: "I trade a lot and don't actually participate enough in activities that consume a lot of items requiring Columbine"

Lol, traders don't actually care about the health of the game. They want to keep the status quo and protect their own trading gameplay while the vast majority of other aspects of the game involving combat suffer.

This is a 10 year old game. At this point, there is no reason to gatekeep the most important and core material. Like, the suggestions we give aren't even detrimental to their trading gameplay. Adding Tri-pots to PvP vendor, AP alchemy bags, etc. don't affect trading at all. Look at AP spell potions for example, it's been years after its introduction and normal spell power potions haven't dropped significantly in price.

To be perfectly fair here Columbine and tri pots being used in the majority of content and in both pve and pvp is a recent development. Columbine for several years was a lower tier mat when corn flower and magicka builds were all the rage for years. To the point where players were complaining about corn flower prices getting out of hand.

So let's set something straight here, players control the market, players sell, players buy, players go take the time to farm. It's not the traders fault for charging what people are willing to pay for the mat.

I am a trader, and I agree that it stinks that it's gotten so high. And yes I think that adjustments need to be made. See my post earlier about solutions


Bet let's also be a bit realistic here, the soonest anything is going to happen is Q1 update of 2024, and that's being optimistic.

Oh yea I'm very well aware of Cornflower prices back then. But ZOS also influenced the market by introducing AP Spell potions and that helped tremendously with Cornflower price. They need to do the same for Tri-stat potions by introducing AP Tri-stat potions.

i have more crown tri pots clogging up inventory than you can shake a stick at from the log on rewards.

That means you haven’t done enough combat related content to burn through them.

no that just means horses for courses, i dont use pots unless the content requires it, eg vma in under 1 hour with no power ups or pots but a build designed for the content, vet dlc dungeons mostly dont need pots , again down to build. prog group vet trials now thats a different thing they need a lot of good pots not crown tri pots.

I don’t see the point though. Hard content will always demand more and it’s usually then that the underlying issues of the game surface.

I can argue that if the majority of content as you implied doesn’t require using potions, then ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources WON’T interfere with said content, no?

I have absolutely no problem with ZOS increasing tri-stat potion sources , as I have said before I'm neither a trader or a farmer. I just saying that there are ways to mitigate the pot costs one of them being what and how you build for the content you enjoy. Being a bit more resilient and not relying on a lot of pots costs you a bit of damage output but hey I find my 70k more than enough other than perhaps trial hard modes and yes before you say it I am giving up maybe 50k but for most content it doesn't really matter.

This doesn't help those of us doing trifectas or scorepushing LOL

Not directly, but it would make tri-pots significantly cheaper to purchase, just like the changes to weapon/spell power pots did in the past.

Ideally we'd just have alchemy satchels/columbine available for purchase with AP and part of the rewards for completing trifectas, but this way at least the basics (tri-pots) become significantly cheaper to acquire putting much less strain on players who want to get into that content as well as a lot of other content with acquiring the basics they need to participate in that content.

StaticWave

manukartofanu wrote: »

Implementing a 'Tri-stat for AP' doesn't address the core issues. It simply inflates the value of AP, which in turn raises the value of all materials sourced from Cyrodiil. Essentially, what's being proposed is to take away from those who farm alchemical ingredients and benefit those who engage in PvP.

Gold has been inflated 10 times more than AP lol. "AP inflation" is literally the least concerning in a long list of concerns regarding prices.

Also, your comment makes no sense. Why would implementing AP Tri-stat potions raise the value of all other materials sourced from Cyrodiil? It's like saying the price of Rubedite Ingot would somehow increase if Sanded Ruby Ash was obtainable with gold in normal merchants. AP is a currency similar to gold, and as far as I know, AP is quite easy to farm. In fact, most PvPers sit on millions of AP waiting for something good from the Golden Vendor if they want to make banks or get some quick gold by selling AP Spell pots/Dawn Prism. Gear satchels are too RNG and not worth the investment.

Nothing will happen if Tri-stat potions were added to siege merchant. In fact, everyone will benefit.

XSTRONG

sarahthes wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

DizzyMac wrote: »

given that Deadly is the Arcanist META and only available in Cyro for AP before selling in vendors - PVP players should just list Deadly gear with an extra 0 on the price..

inline with what other have said about PVPers should have to farm themselves or pay the higher price, PVPers can apply the same principle to gear like Deadly. .. i'm sure those who refuse to pvp and need a deadly lightning staff would have no problem paying 50 million gold for it

While this is true, you don't really need deadly unless you are score pushing or doing trifectas. It just isn't necessary for 99.9% of the game. You can get by with other sets. You cannot just pvp or tank without tripots though. It will break the experience, and quite literally cause you to die as you run out of resources. Losing 5k dps will in a trial will not impact your game like this, and no amount of dummy humping will make you "good" enough to make up for the lack of resources/sustain from tripots. It really isn't the same at all IMO.

The people scorepushing and doing trifectas are the ones using all the columbine. Like I don't know why people keep saying PvPers and tanks are the ones using columbine. The DPS meta classes and setups are using them too! That's the problem! Everyone is using it! I only play DPS and heal. I use between 600-1200 tripots a week, and yes I'm playing in content that requires that level of min maxxing.

The really sweaty folks who use ulti pots? Each raid costs them approximately 2 million gold.

Not sure how I'm going to afford it when my vrg HM core is doing well enough to start calling ourselves a PB core. Oof.

This is exactly what I have said before in this thread, there are alot of pve players using tri pots.

Zos if you decide to make tri pots buyable with AP you need to do them buyable with pve currency also, example new EA currency.

One fun thing would be to introduce potions in the golden in cyrodiil and EA that change potion type every week. But that is to late since you can already buy potions with AP

manukartofanu

StaticWave wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Implementing a 'Tri-stat for AP' doesn't address the core issues. It simply inflates the value of AP, which in turn raises the value of all materials sourced from Cyrodiil. Essentially, what's being proposed is to take away from those who farm alchemical ingredients and benefit those who engage in PvP.

Gold has been inflated 10 times more than AP lol. "AP inflation" is literally the least concerning in a long list of concerns regarding prices.

Also, your comment makes no sense. Why would implementing AP Tri-stat potions raise the value of all other materials sourced from Cyrodiil? It's like saying the price of Rubedite Ingot would somehow increase if Sanded Ruby Ash was obtainable with gold in normal merchants. AP is a currency similar to gold, and as far as I know, AP is quite easy to farm. In fact, most PvPers sit on millions of AP waiting for something good from the Golden Vendor if they want to make banks or get some quick gold by selling AP Spell pots/Dawn Prism. Gear satchels are too RNG and not worth the investment.

Nothing will happen if Tri-stat potions were added to siege merchant. In fact, everyone will benefit.

When you think something doesn't make sense, try to engage your brain and think a bit harder. I don't understand why someone would opt for gold jewelry or something similar when dawn-prisms offer a better conversion rate. And no, not everyone will benefit; only PvPers will. According to you, PvEers have to buy from PvPers. Many PvPers don't realize how much more challenging it is for a PvE player to obtain gold. PvP represents a minority, and there's also the Imperial City with its great potential for farming. Just half an hour of farming mobs there, and you can earn gold equivalent to a satchel of 200 columbines.

Galeriano

manukartofanu wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

Implementing a 'Tri-stat for AP' doesn't address the core issues. It simply inflates the value of AP, which in turn raises the value of all materials sourced from Cyrodiil. Essentially, what's being proposed is to take away from those who farm alchemical ingredients and benefit those who engage in PvP.

Gold has been inflated 10 times more than AP lol. "AP inflation" is literally the least concerning in a long list of concerns regarding prices.

Also, your comment makes no sense. Why would implementing AP Tri-stat potions raise the value of all other materials sourced from Cyrodiil? It's like saying the price of Rubedite Ingot would somehow increase if Sanded Ruby Ash was obtainable with gold in normal merchants. AP is a currency similar to gold, and as far as I know, AP is quite easy to farm. In fact, most PvPers sit on millions of AP waiting for something good from the Golden Vendor if they want to make banks or get some quick gold by selling AP Spell pots/Dawn Prism. Gear satchels are too RNG and not worth the investment.

Nothing will happen if Tri-stat potions were added to siege merchant. In fact, everyone will benefit.

When you think something doesn't make sense, try to engage your brain and think a bit harder. I don't understand why someone would opt for gold jewelry or something similar when dawn-prisms offer a better conversion rate. And no, not everyone will benefit; only PvPers will. According to you, PvEers have to buy from PvPers. Many PvPers don't realize how much more challenging it is for a PvE player to obtain gold. PvP represents a minority, and there's also the Imperial City with its great potential for farming. Just half an hour of farming mobs there, and you can earn gold equivalent to a satchel of 200 columbines.

Dawn prism offer a better convertion rate than golden jewelery? In what world? Currently You can buy dawn prism for 10-20k gold for 100k AP spend while golden jewelery up until jewelery crafting changes announcment was being sold for around 500k gold with 300k AP cost so it's way better ratio and even right now it still costs around 200k gold which is still way better than dawn prism ratio. Almost every other item bought for AP have better convertion rate than dawn prism.

Everyone who uses tristat pots would benefit from adding then to AP vendor since the cost of these pots would drop universally as we've already seen with spell power pots after adding them to AP vendor. Tristat pots are also used lately a lot in PvE so PvE players would also benefit. We already have in game example that it works that way so I don't know why people argue about that.

PvErs have to buy from PvPers and PvPers have to buy from PvErs. These were always connected vessels. I would argue though that higher percentage of PvPers buys from PvErs than vice versa.

It's more challenging for a PvE player to obtain a gold? Once again in what world? Majority of my personal income comes from PvE despite me being more PvP focused player. There is overwhelmingly more ways to get gold from PvE than from PvP.

To get equivalent of 200 columbines in IC within 30 minutes by farming mobs You would need a lot of luck. Also news flash farming mobs is not a PvP encounter even if it's done in a map with PvP element. IC lost its great potential for farming long time ago and this is one of the reasons why price in gold for every item that costs tel vars increased.

StaticWave

manukartofanu wrote: »

When you think something doesn't make sense, try to engage your brain and think a bit harder.

Insulting me isn't going to make your argument stronger pal. And yes, I used my brain, that's why I included an entire argument after that statement. Maybe you should have used yours too if you didn't know that statement was hyperbole.

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't understand why someone would opt for gold jewelry or something similar when dawn-prisms offer a better conversion rate. And no, not everyone will benefit; only PvPers will.

Guild traders benefit from PvPers. Many PvPers list dawn prisms and AP spell pots in various guild traders because those items don't always sell immediately unless PvPers low ball them.

manukartofanu wrote: »

According to you, PvEers have to buy from PvPers. Many PvPers don't realize how much more challenging it is for a PvE player to obtain gold. PvP represents a minority, and there's also the Imperial City with its great potential for farming. Just half an hour of farming mobs there, and you can earn gold equivalent to a satchel of 200 columbines.

1) PvPers buy from PvErs all the time, and more than what PvErs have to buy from PvPers. Think Columbine, Tempering Alloys, Wax, Rosin, dungeon gear (some people pay for runs to get a certain piece of PvP gear), motifs, etc. You guys literally only need to buy some motifs, Deadly set, and Dawn Prism.

2) Pal, I can hop in vDSA right now with my 4 man team and sell runs for a couple mil a piece. I have the connection to do that. I can also sell lvl carry runs too, and make 100k gold an hour if I'm not feeling it, while also leveling my own character.

3) You're clearly not an IC regular. You think you're going to have an easy time farming Tel Var in IC? There are gankers and dedicated Tel Var farmers lurking every corner and they won't hesitate to steal your Tel Var. You will have to bring a group there and fight them, and sometimes you can't even farm in peace when people are constantly going after you to steal Tel Var. The day you become an IC regular is when someone says they've been killed by X build in IC and you know exactly who it is. You are not at that level right now.

I have 12k hours put into both PvE and PvP. You clearly don't PvP, so your input holds no weight in this argument.

StaticWave

manukartofanu wrote: »

there's also the Imperial City with its great potential for farming. Just half an hour of farming mobs there, and you can earn gold equivalent to a satchel of 200 columbines.

I just reread this sentence and lmao.. Let's use the gold value from selling Hakeijo vs what you claimed, which is a satchel of 200 Columbines

Price of Columbine:

Price of Hakeijo:

Rounding all the numbers and we have 4k/Columbine and 100k/Hakeijo. The satchel of 200 Columbine is worth 800k gold, so an equivalent # of Hakeijo is 8.

To get 8 Hakeijos, you will need 40k Tel Var. It's very doable, but for the time frame you claimed (30 minutes) and the source of Telvar (farming mobs) it's pretty much impossible for the vast majority of PvE and PvPers. Here's what you need to do in order to farm 40k Tel Var in 30 minutes:

1) You need 10k Telvar on your character for 4x multiplier

2) You need to capture all 6 districts for maximum district multiplier

3) You can't just farm normal mobs as they yield negligible Telvar. You need to kill the boss of each district, which can take somewhere between 1-2 minutes if you're in a full DPS build and 4-5 minutes if you're in a PvP build

4) Your group size needs to be smaller than 2 because Telvar is equally divided between group members. With 4x multiplier and all districts captured, you can get about 10-14k Telvar per boss if soloing or 5-7k if you're duoing. Each boss has a spawn rate of 15 minutes, meaning you can reach 40k Telvar with 3-4 bosses if soloing and 6-8 bosses if duoing. If your group is larger than 2 people, then you will exceed the 30-minute time frame.

All of these are perfect conditions though. Reality isn't like this because:

1) You have to spend time capturing and defending flags because there are always people flipping them. Just watch IC map for an hour and you will see

2) You can't always run a full DPS build for faster boss kills because you're at risk of dying to a PvPer or even the boss, so your actual DPS is always lower

3) You can't just solo the boss lol. It doesn't happen. There are non-friendly farmers like you who compete for the boss and they won't hesitate to chase you down and kill you. For example, on PC NA there is a 3-4 man group of IC regulars on a 45k HP WW build who will kill you on sight. If you bring your own group to fight them, then nobody gets to farm Telvar because fights will happen until one side gives up.

There are also friendly farmers and they also want a piece of the cake. You will have to play mind games and lure the boss away from them. I've personally done this against other farmers in my faction and have also seen them do the same thing to me lol. That's a lot of time wasted on both sides.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but there is a reason why Hakeijo price is so high. The risk involved, the time invested is just not worth it unless you have a dedicated group. Even then, it's not guaranteed that you can farm in peace because at the end of the day it is a PvPvE zone and if people want to prevent you from farming, they absolutely can. I've farmed Telvar for a while to fund my theorycrafing cost, and for the amount of effort I have to put in to farm Telvar, I could just sell Arena runs or do some sky reach runs. It's less gold per minute, but I'm not at risk of losing all my stuff lol.

manukartofanu

Galeriano wrote: »

Dawn prism offer a better convertion rate than golden jewelery? In what world? Currently You can buy dawn prism for 10-20k gold for 100k AP spend while golden jewelery up until jewelery crafting changes announcment was being sold for around 500k gold with 300k AP cost so it's way better ratio and even right now it still costs around 200k gold which is still way better than dawn prism ratio. Almost every other item bought for AP have better convertion rate than dawn prism.

Everyone who uses tristat pots would benefit from adding then to AP vendor since the cost of these pots would drop universally as we've already seen with spell power pots after adding them to AP vendor. Tristat pots are also used lately a lot in PvE so PvE players would also benefit. We already have in game example that it works that way so I don't know why people argue about that.

PvErs have to buy from PvPers and PvPers have to buy from PvErs. These were always connected vessels. I would argue though that higher percentage of PvPers buys from PvErs than vice versa.

It's more challenging for a PvE player to obtain a gold? Once again in what world? Majority of my personal income comes from PvE despite me being more PvP focused player. There is overwhelmingly more ways to get gold from PvE than from PvP.

To get equivalent of 200 columbines in IC within 30 minutes by farming mobs You would need a lot of luck. Also news flash farming mobs is not a PvP encounter even if it's done in a map with PvP element. IC lost its great potential for farming long time ago and this is one of the reasons why price in gold for every item that costs tel vars increased.

Where are Dawn-prisms being sold for 100k? On the PC EU server, they're priced at only 25k AP. If you're patient, you might sell them for as much as 30k, but for a quick sale, around 20k is more typical. Jewelry, by comparison, generally has a lower demand. While there are times you can secure a high price for a piece, it's not consistently a good method for AP-to-gold conversion. Additionally, the availability of jewelry for gold from the same merchant serves as a natural check against overpricing. It seems the developers designed a system to prevent unreasonable price inflation.

I understand your perspective on adding tristat pots to the AP vendor. While PvPers might benefit the most, others could experience a temporary decrease in prices. However, consider the farmers and gatherers who rely on sourcing ingredients for these pots. Their market would be severely affected. It's essential to think about the broader implications: If we adjust prices to cater to one group's preferences, where do we draw the line? Should these potions also become quest rewards in standard zones or be available from common monsters and chests? And why not sell them for gold from all merchants then? Focusing solely on the needs of PvPers might overlook the game's broader economic balance.

Farming in IC is consistent and valuable, yet it's often overlooked by many PvPers. The reason? Many don't see the merit in taking down mobs. Instead of actively engaging, they might just roam or idle, missing out on potential rewards. Meanwhile, PvE players typically rely on events to earn gold, unless they choose to farm alchemy ingredients or fish, which can be even more time-consuming. PvP players, with a resource-rich environment at their fingertips, often don't capitalize on it. This neglect, combined with the inaccessibility of the zone to PvE players, contributes to the inflated prices in the market.

manukartofanu

StaticWave wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

When you think something doesn't make sense, try to engage your brain and think a bit harder.

Insulting me isn't going to make your argument stronger pal. And yes, I used my brain, that's why I included an entire argument after that statement. Maybe you should have used yours too if you didn't know that statement was hyperbole.

manukartofanu wrote: »

I don't understand why someone would opt for gold jewelry or something similar when dawn-prisms offer a better conversion rate. And no, not everyone will benefit; only PvPers will.

Guild traders benefit from PvPers. Many PvPers list dawn prisms and AP spell pots in various guild traders because those items don't always sell immediately unless PvPers low ball them.

manukartofanu wrote: »

According to you, PvEers have to buy from PvPers. Many PvPers don't realize how much more challenging it is for a PvE player to obtain gold. PvP represents a minority, and there's also the Imperial City with its great potential for farming. Just half an hour of farming mobs there, and you can earn gold equivalent to a satchel of 200 columbines.

1) PvPers buy from PvErs all the time, and more than what PvErs have to buy from PvPers. Think Columbine, Tempering Alloys, Wax, Rosin, dungeon gear (some people pay for runs to get a certain piece of PvP gear), motifs, etc. You guys literally only need to buy some motifs, Deadly set, and Dawn Prism.

2) Pal, I can hop in vDSA right now with my 4 man team and sell runs for a couple mil a piece. I have the connection to do that. I can also sell lvl carry runs too, and make 100k gold an hour if I'm not feeling it, while also leveling my own character.

3) You're clearly not an IC regular. You think you're going to have an easy time farming Tel Var in IC? There are gankers and dedicated Tel Var farmers lurking every corner and they won't hesitate to steal your Tel Var. You will have to bring a group there and fight them, and sometimes you can't even farm in peace when people are constantly going after you to steal Tel Var. The day you become an IC regular is when someone says they've been killed by X build in IC and you know exactly who it is. You are not at that level right now.

I have 12k hours put into both PvE and PvP. You clearly don't PvP, so your input holds no weight in this argument.

I simply responded to you in your own style. If something there seemed like an insult to you, you should better watch your own writing. From your arguments, all I see is a misunderstanding of what I wrote and showing off in-game achievements. Neither of these relates to the topic of discussion. And if you think the amount of time spent in the game or in a particular zone gives weight to someone's words, I have bad news for you.

manukartofanu

StaticWave wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

there's also the Imperial City with its great potential for farming. Just half an hour of farming mobs there, and you can earn gold equivalent to a satchel of 200 columbines.

I just reread this sentence and lmao.. Let's use the gold value from selling Hakeijo vs what you claimed, which is a satchel of 200 Columbines

Price of Columbine:

Price of Hakeijo:

Rounding all the numbers and we have 4k/Columbine and 100k/Hakeijo. The satchel of 200 Columbine is worth 800k gold, so an equivalent # of Hakeijo is 8.

To get 8 Hakeijos, you will need 40k Tel Var. It's very doable, but for the time frame you claimed (30 minutes) and the source of Telvar (farming mobs) it's pretty much impossible for the vast majority of PvE and PvPers. Here's what you need to do in order to farm 40k Tel Var in 30 minutes:

1) You need 10k Telvar on your character for 4x multiplier

2) You need to capture all 6 districts for maximum district multiplier

3) You can't just farm normal mobs as they yield negligible Telvar. You need to kill the boss of each district, which can take somewhere between 1-2 minutes if you're in a full DPS build and 4-5 minutes if you're in a PvP build

4) Your group size needs to be smaller than 2 because Telvar is equally divided between group members. With 4x multiplier and all districts captured, you can get about 10-14k Telvar per boss if soloing or 5-7k if you're duoing. Each boss has a spawn rate of 15 minutes, meaning you can reach 40k Telvar with 3-4 bosses if soloing and 6-8 bosses if duoing. If your group is larger than 2 people, then you will exceed the 30-minute time frame.

All of these are perfect conditions though. Reality isn't like this because:

1) You have to spend time capturing and defending flags because there are always people flipping them. Just watch IC map for an hour and you will see

2) You can't always run a full DPS build for faster boss kills because you're at risk of dying to a PvPer or even the boss, so your actual DPS is always lower

3) You can't just solo the boss lol. It doesn't happen. There are non-friendly farmers like you who compete for the boss and they won't hesitate to chase you down and kill you. For example, on PC NA there is a 3-4 man group of IC regulars on a 45k HP WW build who will kill you on sight. If you bring your own group to fight them, then nobody gets to farm Telvar because fights will happen until one side gives up.

There are also friendly farmers and they also want a piece of the cake. You will have to play mind games and lure the boss away from them. I've personally done this against other farmers in my faction and have also seen them do the same thing to me lol. That's a lot of time wasted on both sides.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but there is a reason why Hakeijo price is so high. The risk involved, the time invested is just not worth it unless you have a dedicated group. Even then, it's not guaranteed that you can farm in peace because at the end of the day it is a PvPvE zone and if people want to prevent you from farming, they absolutely can. I've farmed Telvar for a while to fund my theorycrafing cost, and for the amount of effort I have to put in to farm Telvar, I could just sell Arena runs or do some sky reach runs. It's less gold per minute, but I'm not at risk of losing all my stuff lol.

Thank you for providing the prices. It seems we have different gaming experiences due to playing on different servers. I had heard about the prices on PC NA, but I just checked via the Tamriel Trade Center to see what's happening there. Honestly, I don't understand why Hakeijo is so undervalued on your server. There are half as many listings as on PC EU, yet the price is only twice as high. However, if you look at Columbine, with a similar volume, the price on your server is also twice as high. Either Columbine is hugely overpriced due to some sort of agreement, or Hakeijo is greatly undervalued. To be honest, my first thought when seeing such an imbalance would be to invest 150 million gold in Hakeijo and set the price at 200k each, raising the market value. Though, I don't know why it's priced so low on your server; perhaps it's not trendy to use it.

Pelanora

loosej wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

One player's gain is another player's loss. If everyone grinded mats there wouldn't be enough mats for everyone. Imagine spending 2 hours of your free time competing with other people just to pick up a few columbine lol. What a waste of time. I already experienced that in New World and got totally bored. There should be other ways to access one of the most important mat in the game.

But there is another way to get those mats. You play the game for 2 hours in any way you like, sell rewards you don't need, and buy columbine or tri-stat pots on guild traders.

Please try to understand that changing the game to make your life easier can make it less fun for others. The upcoming change to grains/platings is a perfect example. Yes, it will be easier for everyone to gold out all their jewels (although they will likely be disappointed when they see how low the dps difference is). No, this isn't a good thing across the board. For lots of traders, myself included, platings have been a major source of income for a long time. Which in turn helps us support our guilds to pay the outrageous weekly trader fees. We don't get these mats in some magical way, we just put in the work. We run daily writs on 20 characters, spend an extra hour every couple of days clearing our surveys, and dismount to pick up every resource node we see.

If zos makes a change that results in columbine prices dropping, that's yet another reason for traders to start looking for a new game. Guess what would happen if the majority of serious traders starts playing a different game? Good luck finding that one columbine listing in an ocean of new moon priest pages and other useless stuff....

Pretty easy to bring the price of traders slots down, zos just needs to double the number available. If that's the actual cause here of high mat prices, then it should be looked into.

Jierdanit

manukartofanu wrote: »

I understand your perspective on adding tristat pots to the AP vendor. While PvPers might benefit the most, others could experience a temporary decrease in prices. However, consider the farmers and gatherers who rely on sourcing ingredients for these pots. Their market would be severely affected. It's essential to think about the broader implications: If we adjust prices to cater to one group's preferences, where do we draw the line? Should these potions also become quest rewards in standard zones or be available from common monsters and chests? And why not sell them for gold from all merchants then? Focusing solely on the needs of PvPers might overlook the game's broader economic balance.

Things that are used as much as Tripots and are very important to have for a lot of builds should be pretty easily accessible to everyone so that new players are not effectivel locked out of a lot of content.
Currently you pay nearly 200k gold for a stack of Tripots on PC/EU. You can easily use a full stack, if not multiple, of them in one day of actually PvPing.
While those prices might not be huge to someone who has spent hundreds or thousands of hours in the game and has a lot of gold, they are absolutely huge to people who are not rich.
So yes it would be a very good idea to make them accessible from PvE vendors for AP and Gold and maybe even make them just drop from monsters. Especially drops from dungeon bosses should be equal to the alliance pots/tripots and not just budget mag, stam or hp pots that are basically useless for any advanced content.

manukartofanu wrote: »

Farming in IC is consistent and valuable, yet it's often overlooked by many PvPers. The reason? Many don't see the merit in taking down mobs. Instead of actively engaging, they might just roam or idle, missing out on potential rewards. Meanwhile, PvE players typically rely on events to earn gold, unless they choose to farm alchemy ingredients or fish, which can be even more time-consuming. PvP players, with a resource-rich environment at their fingertips, often don't capitalize on it. This neglect, combined with the inaccessibility of the zone to PvE players, contributes to the inflated prices in the market.

If the farming in IC is consistent then its effectively just doing PvE in a PvP zone. As soon as actual PvP is involved the farming becomes very inconsistent.
PvP players might have a lot of ressources around them, especially in IC (which at this point can barely called a PvP zone because its basically always empty), but you barely get any of those ressources by actually doing PvP.
Instead you have to either do quests or kill mobs in PvP environments. If i want to farm by killing PvE enemies i wouldnt have to do that in IC where you always have at least some risk of being killed by another player.

So farming mobs/bosses in IC for a PvPer is effectively the same as farming ressources is for a PvEer. It might be content in the zones you are usually in buts its definitely not the content you come to that zone to do.

wolfie1.0.

1

Jierdanit wrote: »

manukartofanu wrote: »

I understand your perspective on adding tristat pots to the AP vendor. While PvPers might benefit the most, others could experience a temporary decrease in prices. However, consider the farmers and gatherers who rely on sourcing ingredients for these pots. Their market would be severely affected. It's essential to think about the broader implications: If we adjust prices to cater to one group's preferences, where do we draw the line? Should these potions also become quest rewards in standard zones or be available from common monsters and chests? And why not sell them for gold from all merchants then? Focusing solely on the needs of PvPers might overlook the game's broader economic balance.

Things that are used as much as Tripots and are very important to have for a lot of builds should be pretty easily accessible to everyone so that new players are not effectivel locked out of a lot of content.
Currently you pay nearly 200k gold for a stack of Tripots on PC/EU. You can easily use a full stack, if not multiple, of them in one day of actually PvPing.
While those prices might not be huge to someone who has spent hundreds or thousands of hours in the game and has a lot of gold, they are absolutely huge to people who are not rich.
So yes it would be a very good idea to make them accessible from PvE vendors for AP and Gold and maybe even make them just drop from monsters. Especially drops from dungeon bosses should be equal to the alliance pots/tripots and not just budget mag, stam or hp pots that are basically useless for any advanced content.

manukartofanu wrote: »

Farming in IC is consistent and valuable, yet it's often overlooked by many PvPers. The reason? Many don't see the merit in taking down mobs. Instead of actively engaging, they might just roam or idle, missing out on potential rewards. Meanwhile, PvE players typically rely on events to earn gold, unless they choose to farm alchemy ingredients or fish, which can be even more time-consuming. PvP players, with a resource-rich environment at their fingertips, often don't capitalize on it. This neglect, combined with the inaccessibility of the zone to PvE players, contributes to the inflated prices in the market.

If the farming in IC is consistent then its effectively just doing PvE in a PvP zone. As soon as actual PvP is involved the farming becomes very inconsistent.
PvP players might have a lot of ressources around them, especially in IC (which at this point can barely called a PvP zone because its basically always empty), but you barely get any of those ressources by actually doing PvP.
Instead you have to either do quests or kill mobs in PvP environments. If i want to farm by killing PvE enemies i wouldnt have to do that in IC where you always have at least some risk of being killed by another player.

So farming mobs/bosses in IC for a PvPer is effectively the same as farming ressources is for a PvEer. It might be content in the zones you are usually in buts its definitely not the content you come to that zone to do.

Which is why, for the most point, IC is a dead zone. It embodies all that both PVE and PVP communities most hate.