Necromancer: class form feedback

IncultaWolf · October 2023

I guess I could also call this, Necromancer: A waste of my money

Just wanted to start this thread out by saying that necromancer is my main class in ESO. I loved necromancers in Oblivion and Skyrim and I was very excited to play it here, but my experience has been disappointing and not fun. [snip] There's just so many issues with trying to play this class and it feels like it was designed around one thing, PvE tanking. I'd like to go over some of the issues with necromancer and provide general feedback from other players experiences with this class, especially from a PvP perspective.

To start off, why is this the only class in the game without access to Major Brutality/Sorcery in their toolkit? Necromancer in general lacks several named buffs that other classes have access to. They also do not offer any unique buffs. Major Vulnerability can be sourced from multiple sets now, including Archdruid Devyric and Turning Tide. Meanwhile every other class offers some form of unique buff. The class has no gap closer, no on-demand stun, and no execute ability. The "1" viable damage ability they have in pvp is blastbones, and even that ability is inconsistent. Sometimes blastbones will run off in the opposite direction and attack someone else, sometimes it will just stand there and watch me fight my enemy, not to mention blastbones can be stunned, immobilized, killed, and negated, locking you out of your only burst ability for 12 seconds.

Please change Empowering Grasp to buff your pets by having the ability slotted. It's very tedious to actually hit your pets with this ability, most of the time you will be wasting resources trying. Fix Bone Totem or one of its respective morphs to properly stun on the first tick. Another issue is that Blastbones and its respective morphs, as well as the other pets like Spirit Mender do NOT proc any sets, nor do they count towards your scoreboard in battlegrounds. Another change I'd love to see is the skeletal minion getting buffed, as well as having major brutality/sorcery OR savagery/prophecy while slotted on either bar. Other classes have gotten these "while slotted on either bar" updates, but necromancer still has none. I feel like another good change would be to make the agony totem synergy, a self-synergy for the player, to further give necromancers class identity, of being able to self proc their own ability synergies. It would also solve an issue of not having enough sticky DoT abilites in their toolkit. The necromancer class has a scythe ability, and it not having some form of execute scaling feels like a missed opportunity.

I've gone to several twitch streams and asked very experienced PvPers what they think about Necromancer and the response is always the same. That it's laughable, weak, and not competitive at all. So the question should be asked again. Why is this class something we have to pay to use? Pretty much all my friends and the general playerbase will agree that there is no incentive to play this class because at the end of the day, it is not fun to use. I took the time to talk to new players who bought necromancer, and they have also shared in their disappointment, even to the point where they completely drop the class for good. Necromancer is now a meme among players, something to joke about. If you're seen on one in pvp, you won't be taken seriously at all. I also love the privilege of being attacked by guards for simply using my abilities in towns. A lot of times I have to go out of my way just to duel someone. I wouldn't mind the justice system being a downside of the class, if the class itself and its abilities were powerful, but right now sadly they are not. Here's an example of a new players experience playing necromancer.

Because of what Gina has said here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644186/pts-patch-notes-v9-2-2

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The Elder Scrolls Online v9.2.2 continues addressing bugs and feedback from Endless Archive, including an adjustment to difficulty scaling this week – keep the feedback coming! We’ve also fixed some issues involving item sets, furnishings, the Group Finder and more. This week, we’ll be testing the Guilds and Glory Celebration and have also copied all PC EU characters. The size of this patch is approximately 255MB.

OtarTheMad · October 2023

Yeah Necromancer has had issues basically since it hit live. It was only useful because Major Vulnerability was so OP and self synergy/harmony combo was so unique and fun that even outside of bombing it did good damage, and for me, was my burst.

Even when it was new Necro has issues, BB hit live broken and even after fixed has damage inconsistencies and was buggy. The summons always kind of bugged out, skulls were always slow, and the tethers were unique as a theme and interesting but did not always work out and sometimes screwed you. I saw the potential of this class and loved it, figured it would be fixed/buffed eventually but instead the nerf hammer was harsh.

I had to, recently, retire my necro who was my main since 2019. I’ll still do story content on it like quests, chapter and achievement hunting but outside of that it’s now buried on my character screen.

Gopher · October 2023

100% agree with OP.
Note: In this post, when talking about PVE it will be from a strictly DPS point of view.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

Remiem · October 2023

It wouldn't even need that much more work to make the class at least decent in PvP: Shove Major Brutality/Sorcery somewhere in the passives and turn one morph of Grave Grasp into a single target unblockable stun. Bonus: Remove the res part of Animate Blastbones, reduce the damage and lower the cost, that's what should have been done instead of buffing the Colossus.

But honestly, after the absolute letdown that was CP 2.0 I stopped expecting anything new for ESO's combat except a new class if ZOS really need a selling argument for their next chapter, nothing as big as skill reworks if they can't sell it to players even though a lot of them need it and not just necro ones (when was the last time to saw someone use Inevitable Detonation? Anti Cavalry Caltrops? Trapping Webs?).

gariondavey · October 2023

Great post.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin please give this thread a read.

MashmalloMan · October 2023

Welcome to the club Necro, Sorcs have been asking to be non pet dependant for what feels like 5 years and they've only made it increasingly worse by buffing Daedric Prey more and more.

The feeling I got from BG3 devs for addressing feedback and patching the game quickly has really soured my taste for ESO. It's really unacceptable. The players that stick around for the game are constantly telling ZOS feedback that would increase their revenue by bringing back players on the fence (like me since U35), and it's ignored or pushed back 1-2 years.

Tell me how a free update with something so unique like an Endless Dungeon, with random enemies and bosses, with NEW class specific sets has given me no reason to come back. If I came back, I would 100% pay for ESO+.

So tired of waiting for hybridization to finish and class identity to be addressed. These should be priority 1.

Turtle_Bot · October 2023

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Welcome to the club Necro, Sorcs have been asking to be non pet dependant for what feels like 5 years and they've only made it increasingly worse by buffing Daedric Prey more and more.

The feeling I got from BG3 devs for addressing feedback and patching the game quickly has really soured my taste for ESO. It's really unacceptable. The players that stick around for the game are constantly telling ZOS feedback that would increase their revenue by bringing back players on the fence (like me since U35), and it's ignored or pushed back 1-2 years.

Tell me how a free update with something so unique like an Endless Dungeon, with random enemies and bosses, with NEW class specific sets has given me no reason to come back. If I came back, I would 100% pay for ESO+.

So tired of waiting for hybridization to finish and class identity to be addressed. These should be priority 1.

Yep, No-pet (and by extension 1 pet) sorc hasn't been truly viable since summerset (may 2018) and was all but confirmed as a killed off and never coming back playstyle when ZOS removed overloads 3rd bar later that year (Oct 2018) without doing anything to reduce the massive impact this change brought.
The only time sorc at all pops up into the meta (from a PvP perspective) is when there are multiple overtuned proc sets existing at the same time to completely carry it (savage werewolf, mara's balm, masters DW, vate destro, etc).

i11ionward · October 2023

I'm not asking for a class redesign already in this update - there's no time for that anymore, but adding Major Brutality/Sorcery to an ability is a matter of 5 minutes. It's something that can be done literally right now. It wouldn't require a lot of testing resources, just adding a few lines to the code.
A huge number of topics during this PTS cycle were asking to improve necro, it was impossible to miss it, the only answer I have in my head is that the developers are deliberately ignoring necro.

LukosCreyden · October 2023

A good thread but sadly, the devs are ignoring necro. This is because they do not know what to do with the class and lack the ability to fix it.
As an ex necro main, it really sucks to see.
Like so many other things on this forum, the good feedback that has been given is ignored.
I always thought community managers existed to communicate with the game community, but if this is the case, ZOS has been historically terrible at it.

OtarTheMad · October 2023

I’ve calmed down my stance on a rework of Necro’s offensive abilities but it needs more than just major brut/sorc… I will die on that hill lol. But I don’t think it’ll happen, I think that history will kind of repeat and the easier road will be taken… necro will just get that buff and nothing will change. I get why it’s being asked for but it won’t change anything if the abilities are crap. It’s like asking for a tire change when the engine has failed ya know? Great… you got all new tires but the engine is still garbage.

I’ve retired my necro but I think I also have to retire from asking for changes, they won’t happen. Class had potential but oh well. I have to play what I find fun because this is a game.

CameraBeardThePirate · October 2023

Just give it up and move on to other games. Ignoring feedback and not communicating turns people away, and I for one won't be holding out hope anymore.

Plenty of great games came out this year, with good devs that communicate regularly and make good on promises. Why should I keep playing a game where that isn't the case?

Lazy_Voyager · October 2023

Even enemy necro npc's don't use necromancer skill lines. We paid for the immersion of being fined and arrested for pressing '2' in city limits.

Would love to see a rework of the class on the level of magblade along with other things that won't happen.

IncultaWolf · October 2023

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Just give it up and move on to other games. Ignoring feedback and not communicating turns people away, and I for one won't be holding out hope anymore.

Plenty of great games came out this year, with good devs that communicate regularly and make good on promises. Why should I keep playing a game where that isn't the case?

I've already cancelled my eso+ when I read the pts week 1 notes. It's truly sad to see all these other players who gave up on this class and moved on. I feel bad for new players who make the "grave" mistake of choosing necromancer for their first character.

Urvoth · October 2023

Of course this post got edited for “bashing”

gariondavey · October 2023

I see that they removed the meme in the original post. Overzealous moderation is one of the worst aspects of the forums.
Just because someone is criticising the company, that doesn't mean it is "bashing".
Pretty disappointed to see something like this happen.

gariondavey · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Of course this post got edited for “bashing”

Yeah I'm not even sure what's the best method to talk to a mod to get clarification on these kinds of things either. I guess I'll just keep tagging @ZOS_Kevin and praying he sees me.

You can try privately messaging the mod who did this, but they have never responded when I've asked them questions or for clarification.

Michaelkeir · October 2023

All these well put together and thought out post about the necromancer and the lack of a pvp presence and here I am just wishing it had actual summonable pets instead of minions who are glorified dots pretending to be pets and or a skill line designed around dots/poison/decay or buffing our pets.
I was really hoping for a true pet class or at least one that all 3 skill lines were based around them.

gariondavey · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Of course this post got edited for “bashing”

Yeah I'm not even sure what's the best method to talk to a mod to get clarification on these kinds of things either. I guess I'll just keep tagging @ZOS_Kevin and praying he sees me.

You can try privately messaging the mod who did this, but they have never responded when I've asked them questions or for clarification.

That's my problem. I've tried this in the past and never got a reply. What am I supposed to do if I have questions?

This just reinforces communication issues when it comes to feedback and more. All after the giant fiasco where Gina had talked about communication on Twitter(X).

The word 'neglected' comes to mind.

This is completely understandable

Necrotech_Master · October 2023

i have 2 necromancer right now, one being a stam based tank build is working OK, but thats what necromancers are strong at lol

i have a mag necro who i was trying as a burst dps (ruined when they got rid of plaguebreak in PVE) and currently experimenting on a non-oaken 1 bar build, which works out OK, but i dont really like the playstyle so might try to redo him again

i did kind of enjoy the dark convergence bombing with him, but im gonna have to get rid of plaguebreak and maybe move to azureblight instead lol

IncultaWolf · October 2023

I didn't include every single forum thread about necromancer, but even on Reddit, there are several more posts bringing up these issues. Runescape recently released their own necromancer skill line, and it actually feels like a necro should be. You can summon multiple undead zombies, skeletons, and ghosts at once to fight for you.

I can only hope one of the combat devs notices this thread and takes our feedback into consideration, like other players have said before, are they deliberately ignoring necro because they plan to rework it all at once at some point? What's going on? I can give suggestions, such as allowing the player to self-use the Agony totem synergy, and making the damage tethers apply a sticky DoT for entering the area, so you get more value from the rapid rot passive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/14isqlx/can_we_talk_about_how_necromancer_needs_a_rework/

Erickson9610 · October 2023

I've been wanting to give my two Necromancer characters another try, but hearing about how lacking the class is really dissuades me from wanting to pick them back up again.

I just hope that whenever the Necromancer Companion is implemented, the balance team will re-evaluate the player Necromancer skill lines. Many of us were expecting a Necromancer Companion for the Necrom Chapter, but we instead had this new Arcanist class implemented and the Companion that could've been a Necromancer was instead made to be an Arcanist.

Isn't it ironic that Nightblade and Dragonknight were the classes of the first two Companions, and the Necromancer Companion was skipped over?

Erikx · October 2023

I swear i have been the only necro in this game now recently on PC NA. You may see me running around IC or cyro solo lol its ridiculous how weak necro is compared to what it was. For no reason pets got nerfed, our healing got gutted, and harmony got changed for no reason which essentially crippled the class. Meanwhile you got dks and nbs who can heal to full health in one button press and never run out of resources and have ults that cost next to nothing that do a billion damage. But yea lets gut necros which take actual skill to play. I just wish they would do frequent minor class balance changes like wow does and most other mmos.

IncultaWolf · October 2023

Erikx wrote: »

I swear i have been the only necro in this game now recently on PC NA. You may see me running around IC or cyro solo lol its ridiculous how weak necro is compared to what it was. For no reason pets got nerfed, our healing got gutted, and harmony got changed for no reason which essentially crippled the class. Meanwhile you got dks and nbs who can heal to full health in one button press and never run out of resources and have ults that cost next to nothing that do a billion damage. But yea lets gut necros which take actual skill to play. I just wish they would do frequent minor class balance changes like wow does and most other mmos.

I believe it, it takes me multiple days, maybe even a week to complete the kill 20 necromancers quest in cyrodill. For every 50 dragonknights I run into, I see 1 necro if I'm lucky.

IncultaWolf · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin this isn't just one thread. There are so many linked in here. Was there a purpose of posting that "Impovement" survey if there is zero sign of anything improvement? Communication is abysmal.

I mean, come on.

Oh well, maybe next pts cycle we'll get set/class balance adjustments. Hopefully they've been baking long enough to realize how much of a joke necromancer is

CameraBeardThePirate · October 2023

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin this isn't just one thread. There are so many linked in here. Was there a purpose of posting that "Impovement" survey if there is zero sign of anything improvement? Communication is abysmal.

I mean, come on.

Oh well, maybe next pts cycle we'll get set/class balance adjustments. Hopefully they've been baking long enough to realize how much of a joke necromancer is

Lol not happening

Jolipinator · October 2023

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I just hope that whenever the Necromancer Companion is implemented, the balance team will re-evaluate the player Necromancer skill lines. Many of us were expecting a Necromancer Companion for the Necrom Chapter, but we instead had this new Arcanist class implemented and the Companion that could've been a Necromancer was instead made to be an Arcanist.

Isn't it ironic that Nightblade and Dragonknight were the classes of the first two Companions, and the Necromancer Companion was skipped over?

They must be doing a Necro companion next year, otherwise they would start repeating classes. Seeing as next year is the 10th anniversary, and the Event Ticket morphing pet thingy is linked to Molag Bal, maybe they will overhaul the Necromancer class considering how prevalent Necromancy is in the main quest/setting of the game. Or not.

MashmalloMan · October 2023

Jolipinator wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

I just hope that whenever the Necromancer Companion is implemented, the balance team will re-evaluate the player Necromancer skill lines. Many of us were expecting a Necromancer Companion for the Necrom Chapter, but we instead had this new Arcanist class implemented and the Companion that could've been a Necromancer was instead made to be an Arcanist.

Isn't it ironic that Nightblade and Dragonknight were the classes of the first two Companions, and the Necromancer Companion was skipped over?

They must be doing a Necro companion next year, otherwise they would start repeating classes. Seeing as next year is the 10th anniversary, and the Event Ticket morphing pet thingy is linked to Molag Bal, maybe they will overhaul the Necromancer class considering how prevalent Necromancy is in the main quest/setting of the game. Or not.

They haven't really done any major class balancing since U35 so I have a feeling their saving their list of changes for 1 patch.

Specifically. I think they're waiting for when hybridization is ready because that directly effects classes as well.

It wouldn't make sense to adjust classes deeply if hybridization wasn't finished and vise versa. Necros major vuln isn't really as unique as it used to be, so it doesn't feel like a worthy replacement for the 6 other classes minor group buffs, 2 of which are redundant because of hybridization so they need to be reworked.

MashmalloMan · October 2023

It's just tiresome waiting. They're developement cycles are too long in comparison to other companies.

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

Gopher wrote: »

100% agree with OP.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

While i don't disagree with the majority of the statement or the general sentiment i do have to point on one fallacy. Necro is far from dead in pve, no pun intended. Its actually a staple. Every good comp has one. Period. What you can say is that full damage necros are binned. As supports they are an absolute necessity for high level content.

As far as a straight dps class? Yes. Good god they need help. Id love to be able to play more cro more but as it is right now the game play is just not fun and you are basically relegated to support..

Panderbander · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Gopher wrote: »

100% agree with OP.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

While i don't disagree with the majority of the statement or the general sentiment i do have to point on one fallacy. Necro is far from dead in pve, no pun intended. Its actually a staple. Every good comp has one. Period. What you can say is that full damage necros are binned. As supports they are an absolute necessity for high level content.

As far as a straight dps class? Yes. Good god they need help. Id love to be able to play more cro more but as it is right now the game play is just not fun and you are basically relegated to support..

What is a Necromancer going to add to the group with no unique buffs, mid dps, healing that falls below a Warden, and a major buff that is accessible through a 2 and 5pc set? Arcanists and DKs are better tanks by a long shot and provide higher damage boosts to the group comp

Animate Blastbones! Especially useful in the groups with no deaths, I hear.

Vaqual · October 2023

I think necros were quite decent before the intensive mender nerf. It was too strong, for sure. But I think it's funny how polar wind is even worse now and necro is just dead in the gutter.