Necromancer: class form feedback

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Gopher wrote: »

100% agree with OP.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

While i don't disagree with the majority of the statement or the general sentiment i do have to point on one fallacy. Necro is far from dead in pve, no pun intended. Its actually a staple. Every good comp has one. Period. What you can say is that full damage necros are binned. As supports they are an absolute necessity for high level content.

As far as a straight dps class? Yes. Good god they need help. Id love to be able to play more cro more but as it is right now the game play is just not fun and you are basically relegated to support..

What is a Necromancer going to add to the group with no unique buffs, mid dps, healing that falls below a Warden, and a major buff that is accessible through a 2 and 5pc set? Arcanists and DKs are better tanks by a long shot and provide higher damage boosts to the group comp

Lets start here: EC. necro is by a mile the class that gives the best uptime on it. Its mandatory for all high end raiding. That by itself will earn necro a spot. Necro ot is by far the most common. It allows a greater variety of monster helms for raid content since in all raid content you will want vuln on both minis and main bosses. Sax also pairs fantastically with collosus. There really are a number of reasons but if you really want the proof go hop to eso logs or the leaderboards and have a look at how many of the top teams have atleast one necro.

Tyrant_Tim · October 2023

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Gopher wrote: »

100% agree with OP.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

While i don't disagree with the majority of the statement or the general sentiment i do have to point on one fallacy. Necro is far from dead in pve, no pun intended. Its actually a staple. Every good comp has one. Period. What you can say is that full damage necros are binned. As supports they are an absolute necessity for high level content.

As far as a straight dps class? Yes. Good god they need help. Id love to be able to play more cro more but as it is right now the game play is just not fun and you are basically relegated to support..

What is a Necromancer going to add to the group with no unique buffs, mid dps, healing that falls below a Warden, and a major buff that is accessible through a 2 and 5pc set? Arcanists and DKs are better tanks by a long shot and provide higher damage boosts to the group comp

Lets start here: EC. necro is by a mile the class that gives the best uptime on it. Its mandatory for all high end raiding. That by itself will earn necro a spot. Necro ot is by far the most common. It allows a greater variety of monster helms for raid content since in all raid content you will want vuln on both minis and main bosses. Sax also pairs fantastically with collosus. There really are a number of reasons but if you really want the proof go hop to eso logs or the leaderboards and have a look at how many of the top teams have atleast one necro.

Right, Necro has a difficult rotation but it is very rewarding, and is perfectly fine as a support option.

Where the class is lacking tends to land in PvP because most of the named buffs you need to have competitive damage generally aren’t given to you by a Dragonknight in group.

When you take away that 30% weapon damage, you find it’s pretty difficult to get your abilities to hurt anyone, where making your character survivable is easy and has never been a problem.

IncultaWolf · October 2023

So you're basically admitting that necro dps is only viable in pve because of a single proc set from a dlc dungeon? Wow

IncultaWolf · October 2023

Vaqual wrote: »

I think necros were quite decent before the intensive mender nerf. It was too strong, for sure. But I think it's funny how polar wind is even worse now and necro is just dead in the gutter.

Polar wind right now is stronger than intensive mender ever was

Tyrant_Tim · October 2023

IncultaWolf wrote: »

So you're basically admitting that necro dps is only viable in pve because of a single proc set from a dlc dungeon? Wow

Not at all, EC is just a guaranteed spot.

Last I checked, Blastbones is cleave, and the class hits above 125k DPS like every other one, and matter of fact, Warden is the only class in the game currently struggling as a DPS. There is no guarantee for them anywhere, and in any content, and they consistently do the least damage.

Necromancer is tied with Nightblade as my second most played class and I have zero difficulty finding groups for content, if anything, having another Necro in group regardless of the role, that’s capable of Colossus dropping, or saving pugs from wiping with their Rez ult is truly amazing.

Back to my earlier point though, Necromancer isn’t just fine in PvE, it’s great.

Now for PvP, without that 30% Weapon Damage increase from a Dragonknight in your group, it’s 30% behind Templar and Dragonknight for stat-scaling damage, and 20% behind every other class.

Which is why most people are advocating for an in-class Major Brutality/Sorcery, other than that and a necessary rework of Grave Grasp. I would look at the duration for Spirit Guardian and the tethers for adjustment as they fall off way too frequently.

Vaqual · October 2023

IncultaWolf wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

I think necros were quite decent before the intensive mender nerf. It was too strong, for sure. But I think it's funny how polar wind is even worse now and necro is just dead in the gutter.

Polar wind right now is stronger than intensive mender ever was

That is what I wrote tho. Like worse in the sense of "a worse offender", even less balanced than mender. Just for clarification.

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Dekrypted wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Gopher wrote: »

100% agree with OP.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

While i don't disagree with the majority of the statement or the general sentiment i do have to point on one fallacy. Necro is far from dead in pve, no pun intended. Its actually a staple. Every good comp has one. Period. What you can say is that full damage necros are binned. As supports they are an absolute necessity for high level content.

As far as a straight dps class? Yes. Good god they need help. Id love to be able to play more cro more but as it is right now the game play is just not fun and you are basically relegated to support..

What is a Necromancer going to add to the group with no unique buffs, mid dps, healing that falls below a Warden, and a major buff that is accessible through a 2 and 5pc set? Arcanists and DKs are better tanks by a long shot and provide higher damage boosts to the group comp

Lets start here: EC. necro is by a mile the class that gives the best uptime on it. Its mandatory for all high end raiding. That by itself will earn necro a spot. Necro ot is by far the most common. It allows a greater variety of monster helms for raid content since in all raid content you will want vuln on both minis and main bosses. Sax also pairs fantastically with collosus. There really are a number of reasons but if you really want the proof go hop to eso logs or the leaderboards and have a look at how many of the top teams have atleast one necro.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the class being a staple in higher end raids. It can be an option, but not a staple. I have resources I pull from when talking/commenting on pve as I am not as experiences as the resources/connections I pull from/play with and it's just not accurate to what you're saying.

Plenty of options exist for proccing EC on other classes that can do more damage and provide just as much utility and on top of that, there are alternatives to EC.l that can be used in a group/raid comp.

And while Necromancer isn't the only only class that suffers in pve based on the mechanics of the class and what it brings to the table, thinking of templar, but there are still glaring issues with how items and other classes can out right replace a cro more often than not.

No shade to the one who mentioned the rez ultimate because it can save your bacon Keeping it a buck fifty, the player experience on a Necromancer in PvE is better than its experience for PvP, but comparing it to a DK or Arcanist is a night and day difference.

The disparity should be as vast as it is.

My guy. One of my guilds holds several of the sever records currently for ps/na. Every single team has a cro. Pc-na leaderboards: every top team has a cro. You can disagree on opinions, not facts.

https://eso-hub.com/en/leaderboards

https://www.esologs.com/

Please share these other ec options as well. Im quite curious. The cro has the most skills in its tool kit to proc ec without swapping enchantments and squirrelling or otherwise compromising your build. It is frequently paired with ma as cro is an ulti gen class. This is called set synergy. Its the same reason we have zen dks. It just works best on that class. Support dps are necessary to any comp worth its salt anyone who says different has never seen the inside of a trifecta run. Sure, you can theoretically dump any set on any class but that doesnt mean it will work well, the point is to optomize at that level.

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

Dekrypted wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

My guy. One of my guilds holds several of the sever records currently for ps/na. Every single team has a cro. Pc-na leaderboards: every top team has a cro. You can disagree on opinions, not facts.

https://eso-hub.com/en/leaderboards

https://www.esologs.com/

Please share these other ec options as well. Im quite curious. The cro has the most skills in its tool kit to proc ec without swapping enchantments and squirrelling or otherwise compromising your build. It is frequently paired with ma as cro is an ulti gen class. This is called set synergy. Its the same reason we have zen dks. It just works best on that class. Support dps are necessary to any comp worth its salt anyone who says different has never seen the inside of a trifecta run. Sure, you can theoretically dump any set on any class but that doesnt mean it will work well, the point is to optomize at that level.

This seems like a weird hill to die on given what I've already said, okay.

Dekrypted wrote: »

It can be an option, but not a staple.

Plenty of options exist for proccing EC on other classes that can do more damage and provide just as much utility and on top of that, there are alternatives to EC that can be used in a group/raid comp.

And while Necromancer isn't the only class that suffers in pve based on the mechanics of the class and what it brings to the table, thinking of templar, but there are still glaring issues with how items and other classes can out right replace a cro more often than not.

No shade to the one who mentioned the rez ultimate because it can save your bacon. Keeping it a buck fifty, the player experience on a Necromancer in PvE is better than its experience for PvP, but comparing it to a DK or Arcanist is a night and day difference.

The disparity should be as vast as it is.

So I have completed trifectas without a cro and without EC. Based on your group comp, it is totally possible for your dk to run an ice staff and ec and maintain a solid uptime on the set while it can produce more damage than a cro, but the main point I was getting at is the part I had bolded. I'm not going to sit here and crunch the numbers to find the "absolute meta" for a raid comp, and then build accordingly mainly because it's not what I choose to spend my time in the game doing and atleast for me, doing that isn't honestly that fun. Your guild or any guild holding a server record doesn't mean anything to me because at the end of the day, it's a game and it should be about having. If it tickles your fancy to see a higher percentage of uptime on a specific set using a cro, all while the class is still dogwater in every other aspect of playing the game, be my guest.

Trifectas can be completed without a cro and without EC. That is a fact. Trials can be completed without a cro and that is also a fact. Nothing about what you're saying with one sets uptime takes away from this point,

Dekrypted wrote: »

Keeping it a buck fifty, the player experience on a Necromancer in PvE is better than its experience for PvP, but comparing it to a DK or Arcanist is a night and day difference.

The disparity should be as vast as it is.

Right BUT you said - "im going to have to disagree with you on the class being a staple in higher end raids. It can be an option, but not a staple."

High end raiding IS meta chasing so it is a staple in high end raiding because it is the meta so im so completely confused as to where your point is. Of course all levels of trials can be completed without cros. I done plently but the big honker of an actual point is that having a cro for them is optimal and desired because it is really good in that specific situation..

This isnt about some elitist attitude its about retorting specific points that you made. Its like you missed the entire rest of my first post. Id love actually be able to play my cro in something not support but you stated that it is garbage in all pve and has nothing that other classes dont provide better which is false.

Gopher · October 2023

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Gopher wrote: »

100% agree with OP.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Necromancer class to have been in this state for as long as it has been, while also being a paid class.
The most heartbreaking part is that it could all be addressed in one swooping patch. Zos, if people are paying you real money for a class, please at least do them the favor of having the class be playable.

To avoid repeating statements that the OP has meticulously put together, I will simply add my own feelings into the mix:
Necromancer was the first class that I stuck with all the way to level 50. I really enjoyed the theming of the class. At first I really enjoyed the feeling of truly raising the dead to fight for me... that ended when the immersion destroying frustration of my Blastbones not targeting what I wanted it to target quickly took over any enjoyment I found in the class. With the buff timers being extremely short, having to juggle 2 bars of buffs and consistently keeping up Blastbones is not easy for a new player. Not to mention that the issues I faced in PvE would only be amplified tenfold as I planned to dip my toes into PvP for the first time with it aswell.

I've since dropped the class and the second one I leveled was a Templar. I've found much more enjoyment on this class, and while this class has its issues, I can actually for the most part do the content I want. Stop and think about it from the perspective of a new player wanting to pick up Necromancer with plans to use it in vet trials or PvP. They're told that the class is an absolute joke in both PvE and PvP. Why would a player purchase the class? You guys are losing money for each patch that this class remains in this state.

Please zos, for the sake of all of our fellow enjoyers of the deceased... Buff. This. Class.

Credits to @Dekrypted for assisting with the formatting / revising part of my post.

While i don't disagree with the majority of the statement or the general sentiment i do have to point on one fallacy. Necro is far from dead in pve, no pun intended. Its actually a staple. Every good comp has one. Period. What you can say is that full damage necros are binned. As supports they are an absolute necessity for high level content.

As far as a straight dps class? Yes. Good god they need help. Id love to be able to play more cro more but as it is right now the game play is just not fun and you are basically relegated to support..

Sorry, error on my part.
I should have also clarified that I was specifically talking about DPS.

Twohothardware · November 2023

https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/shocking-siphon

Shocking siphon would be the perfect skill to add in Major Sorcery/Brutality.

Aranax1914 · November 2023

I made a forum account just to comment on this thread and bump it. Used to main necro and after playing warden there is literally 0 reason to ever go back to necro other than the aesthetic. whats sad is I love necro and i, and im sure almost everyone, finds the class concept is genuinely so cool. I'm not sure what ZoS envisioned for the current iteration of necro but It was always so funny to me that a class supposedly built around summoning the dead doesnt have a single viable summon (spirit gaurdian doesnt count tha thing is basically a buff) while sorc and warden have them on their ults and basic abilities... its so sad. I just hope we get something legit anything to actually make this class UNIQUE and FUN.

hardlander · November 2023

I don't usually complain on the forums of mmo's, but for once for the necromancer I will. I completely agree, tho I would like to add that the necromancer animations are also slow, making it hard to weave with the class making it even less valuable in the hands of an experienced player. Overall the class also lacks density of stats in general. Could be fixed with more of those named or unnamed buffs. I believe buffing necromancer should be a big focus for the next update. In recent years I've only managed to make necromancer feel playable as a healer or tank using the oakensoul ring as this mythic item solves some of the key factors in its weakness but healer is also one of the few roles it can handle thanks to spirit guardian being a total MVP for passive healing (and my general laziness). Since the nerfs I can't use my necromancer effectively anymore in PVP.

Twohothardware · November 2023

Hopefully Update 41 is centered around a larger scale class rebalancing than what we got this past year. Arcanist was a well polished class and is fun to play. They need to go back in and hybridize the other classes and make them also fun and competitive.

Panderbander · November 2023

Twohothardware wrote: »

Hopefully Update 41 is centered around a larger scale class rebalancing than what we got this past year. Arcanist was a well polished class and is fun to play. They need to go back in and hybridize the other classes and make them also fun and competitive.

I dunno, there's just no feedback or data yet. We should probably let it bake for another year or two first.

IncultaWolf · November 2023

j

Panderbander wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Hopefully Update 41 is centered around a larger scale class rebalancing than what we got this past year. Arcanist was a well polished class and is fun to play. They need to go back in and hybridize the other classes and make them also fun and competitive.

I dunno, there's just no feedback or data yet. We should probably let it bake for another year or two first.

LukosCreyden · November 2023

I really, really hate how Necromancer is thematically and aesthetically my favourite class. Why couldn't my stupid brain pick a functional class?
I wish I could just be like "ayyy DK looks so cool with its weird spikes and stuff!" Then, I could escape from the abyss of despair that is waiting for ZOS to actually do something with this sorry excuse of a class.
It functions, yes, but it functions in the same way that a car with two wheels missing does. Painful and very clunky.

Oh well. Maybe when the data has finished 🍞baking🍞 in five years or so, we will get an answer.

Aranax1914 · November 2023

LukosCreyden wrote: »

I really, really hate how Necromancer is thematically and aesthetically my favourite class. Why couldn't my stupid brain pick a functional class?
I wish I could just be like "ayyy DK looks so cool with its weird spikes and stuff!" Then, I could escape from the abyss of despair that is waiting for ZOS to actually do something with this sorry excuse of a class.
It functions, yes, but it functions in the same way that a car with two wheels missing does. Painful and very clunky.

Oh well. Maybe when the data has finished 🍞baking🍞 in five years or so, we will get an answer.

Legit. When i look at dk im like damn i would like that class if it wasnt CRINGE lol. If dk had necro's aesthetic id be in love with it. If they can actually make necro similar to dk in the way that its a kinda tanky bruiser but instead of DoTs as its main damage it would be conscious burst patterns that would be ideal for me.

megamanx3363 · November 2023

I love necro ill get this spread i want this class to be a good competition but not overtuned as A DK

Pelanora · November 2023

We tried this for sorcs, a thread and pleas and incredibly detailed specs and rationales for changes and Kevin passing feedback to the devs, and we got told the dev feedback was: "sorcs can't be good at everything".

And that dear reader, was that.

AvidNecro · November 2023

I think what I find frustrating most is being blatantly ignored with ZERO feedback or insight. “Yes we hear you, we’re working on it”. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_MattFiror

Tyrant_Tim · November 2023

@AvidNecro, you’re not alone.

Quite a few Templar animations don’t even work after Update 40 and there’s been zero response to any of our bug reports, so it stands to reason they’re not even listening at this point.

IncultaWolf · November 2023

Nice to see all the new forum users joining recently to voice their feedback on the poor state of necromancer.

There have been so many new forum threads pop up about this neglected class since I made this one. The new necromancer class set is straight up bugged and there's zero acknowledgment from the devs regarding this, or the missing templar animations. It's the lack of communication that's really upsetting.

IncultaWolf · November 2023

Pelanora wrote: »

We tried this for sorcs, a thread and pleas and incredibly detailed specs and rationales for changes and Kevin passing feedback to the devs, and we got told the dev feedback was: "sorcs can't be good at everything".

And that dear reader, was that.

Arcanist can be good at everything

Pelanora · November 2023

Lol yes. Yes it's the new class so yes it can.

and then, two years later, some new guy rolls in, hey, look at this guy, hey he's got class, he's a contender, nice ride, tailored suits, and where's arcanist at, that guy who coulda been somebody? Nah, that guy, he's nobody, just a bum, that's who, with a one way ticket to palooka-ville.... with the necros...

Aranax1914 · December 2023

THIS THREAD IS FALLING TOO LOW START TALKING ABOUT MORE ISSUES GUYS.

Resistant flesh is the worst most clunky burst heal in the game.

expunge and all of its morphs are borderline useless. Spamming warden netch is better for a cleanse.

Shocking siphon and all of its morph are boring and weak.

Necro passives are all HORRIBLE compared to everyone else's

no sources of major breach major sorc major prophecy

the least amount of major/minor buffs out of all classes but also somehow plays like a buff simulator.

KEEP IT GOING

Aranax1914 · December 2023

Make summoners armor give you major sorcery when you have a pet up.

Make scythe usuable to necro the same way whip is to dragonknights.

Skeletal mage and its morphs should actually be worth anything other than a light attack.

Make blastbones or even grave grasp proc major breach (and if you do that buff grave grasps projectile speed make it stun someone recently damaged by a pet AND PLEASE REDUCE ITS COST )

PLEASE I REALLY LOVE THIS CLASS ZOS I WANT TO PLAY IT WITHOUT BEING SAD.

Ankael07 · December 2023

There arent even enough necro players left to keep threads like this open. Class is fading into obscurity

IncultaWolf · December 2023

Ankael07 wrote: »

There arent even enough necro players left to keep threads like this open. Class is fading into obscurity

It already has. I played in IC for a few hours on my sorc werewolf, got over 30 kills, and didn't see a single necromancer the entire time.

Aranax1914 · December 2023

Ankael07 wrote: »

There arent even enough necro players left to keep threads like this open. Class is fading into obscurity

Im trying man

Araneae6537 · December 2023

It is really discouraging to see the class in such a state and not to even know if it is being worked on, whether one should hold out any hope for change.

You all have laid out the deficiencies of necro better than I can. I would just say that I agree with the general vision of necro being a class focused on minions, decay, those dots. I always thought the summoned graveyard (why not skeletal hands???) and throwing skulls were silly. Skeletal minions to actually fight and a proper bone colossus for an ultimate! The mass rez is the only thing left really cool to the class.

I created a stamina necro for PVP several years ago. For a longtime she looks badass doing those crafting writs but that’s about it.

Then I have a vampire necro that I am trying to progress in the Infinite Archive with because I am a masochist I get an idea and become determined to find a way to make it work.

Since sorc has been brought up — was the response really that sorc cannot be good at everything??? That’s fair enough if a reason for not providing certain utilities like a class burst heal, but why must sorc DPS be reliant on pets??? What about those cool lightning and dark magic skill lines? I wanted to be a storm mage and strike down my foes with lightning.

Don’t touch Arcanist (or fix the portal? Idk, I don’t use the portal) — it actually feels fun to play. Even DK, although I never liked the visuals, can be fun with fire blazing all around and has always been a great tank. Bring sorc and necro up to par.