Where are the QoL improvements for Sorcerer?

StaticWave · January 26

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Hardened Ward:
Cap scales from 72% to 75% as it levels. Now grants interrupt immunity while active and reduces damage the shield takes by an additional 10%.

Honestly, giving Hardened Ward interrupt immunity could just be the solution to solve Dark Deal's reliability issue without making it OP. I think you should make a separate thread with this suggestion and tag the devs tbh @Turtle_Bot

@Turtle_Bot I thought about it more and the interrupt immunity from shield could also make hard casting Cfrag reliable, which means freeing up 1 extra slot because we can now use Cfrag as a spammable like dizzying swing AND a burst ability when the skill procs itself. Then we'd have room to stack more max mag with Bound Aegis or use Bound Arms for more dmg, or whatever ppl desire. This could be a distinct advantage of Sorc over other classes that use a cast time ability.

I'm often finding the issue with hard casting frags is not getting interrupted via bash/crushing shock/CC, it's getting interrupted because of LoS, positional desync'd dodge rolls etc. that the skill just fails to fire. Interrupt immunity wouldn't really fix that, although I do agree that interrupt immunity with hardened ward up would be nice QoL.

That's an issue Dizzy Swing faces as well, but movement speed helps a bit. Maybe combining the interrupt immunity of Hardened Ward and giving Cfrag normal movement speed while hard casting could be a decent change.

Turtle_Bot · January 26

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Hardened Ward:
Cap scales from 72% to 75% as it levels. Now grants interrupt immunity while active and reduces damage the shield takes by an additional 10%.

Honestly, giving Hardened Ward interrupt immunity could just be the solution to solve Dark Deal's reliability issue without making it OP. I think you should make a separate thread with this suggestion and tag the devs tbh @Turtle_Bot

@Turtle_Bot I thought about it more and the interrupt immunity from shield could also make hard casting Cfrag reliable, which means freeing up 1 extra slot because we can now use Cfrag as a spammable like dizzying swing AND a burst ability when the skill procs itself. Then we'd have room to stack more max mag with Bound Aegis or use Bound Arms for more dmg, or whatever ppl desire. This could be a distinct advantage of Sorc over other classes that use a cast time ability.

I'm often finding the issue with hard casting frags is not getting interrupted via bash/crushing shock/CC, it's getting interrupted because of LoS, positional desync'd dodge rolls etc. that the skill just fails to fire. Interrupt immunity wouldn't really fix that, although I do agree that interrupt immunity with hardened ward up would be nice QoL.

That's an issue Dizzy Swing faces as well, but movement speed helps a bit. Maybe combining the interrupt immunity of Hardened Ward and giving Cfrag normal movement speed while hard casting could be a decent change.

Frags being ranged makes movespeed itself less of an issue.

The main issue is positional desync, you will be casting frags but the target will be behind LoS on their client, so the server just cancels the cast, mid cast.
What will really help frags is if ZOS fixes desyncs, lag and delay. But that is seemingly not possible, so reducing (not remove, but reduce) the cast time slightly (make it 0.6s or 0.5s) and increasing the projectile travel speed would be the next best thing for making frags more reliable.

Most will still stick with the weapon spammables anyway because instant cast is just that much more reliable, especially for PvP and the multitude of status effects available on the weapon spammables currently.

ZhuJiuyin · January 26

StaticWave wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Hardened Ward:
Cap scales from 72% to 75% as it levels. Now grants interrupt immunity while active and reduces damage the shield takes by an additional 10%.

Honestly, giving Hardened Ward interrupt immunity could just be the solution to solve Dark Deal's reliability issue without making it OP. I think you should make a separate thread with this suggestion and tag the devs tbh @Turtle_Bot

@Turtle_Bot I thought about it more and the interrupt immunity from shield could also make hard casting Cfrag reliable, which means freeing up 1 extra slot because we can now use Cfrag as a spammable like dizzying swing AND a burst ability when the skill procs itself. Then we'd have room to stack more max mag with Bound Aegis or use Bound Arms for more dmg, or whatever ppl desire. This could be a distinct advantage of Sorc over other classes that use a cast time ability.

This is still not enough. Since the duration of Ward is only 6 seconds, within these 6 seconds, Sorc can only cast up to 7 Crystal Shards (0.8*7=5.6, not counting additional instants), while Dark Exchange requires longer time (1 second cast). Unless the duration of Ward is changed to 9 or 10 seconds and the thickness is strengthened, or the cast time of Crystal and Exchange is reduced, such as 0.5 seconds, Ward will still be ineffective, especially since Ward is often broken by enemies within 1 or 2 seconds, Sorc There simply isn't enough time to cast Crystal (Passive Blood Magic) or Exchange to restore health.

It's not that this idea is bad, but for Sorc that requires cast time and waiting time, more buffering time is needed.
Crystal Shard 0.8sec
Dark Exchange 1sec
Summon Unstable Familiar 1.5sec
Daedric Curse needs to wait 6 seconds before exploding; Haunting Curse needs to wait 3.5 & 8.5 for a total of 12 seconds
Summon Winged Twilight 1.5sec
Bound Armaments Each weapon takes 0.3 seconds to fire

If cast time & wait time "must" be the style of Sorc, ZOS needs to come up with a better way to mitigate such "negative features". Sorc can't be good at everything, but it can't be bad at everything, right?
Lack of burst healing, taking more time for abilities to take effect, outdated passive effects, low-efficiency executions, being forced to be limited to pets or specific builds, the list goes on...

Jsmalls · January 26

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Hardened Ward:
Cap scales from 72% to 75% as it levels. Now grants interrupt immunity while active and reduces damage the shield takes by an additional 10%.

Honestly, giving Hardened Ward interrupt immunity could just be the solution to solve Dark Deal's reliability issue without making it OP. I think you should make a separate thread with this suggestion and tag the devs tbh @Turtle_Bot

There's a few small changes that would actually help sorc (all sorcs).
- prophecy/savagery access
- utility effects on wards that's not just size/scaling
- breach access

It would be helpful to have a thread to get a consensus on where to include these things and have a conversation with the devs to hopefully discuss reasons for the changes and get their feedback/input on them.

Prophecy/savagery access should be given to Surge as a no brainier since they synergize and it's borderline required to make the ability function.

Minor breach on curse makes the most sense to me. (It's a great ability as is but it's a CURSE it should really apply a debuff...)

Major breach is tough because it's such a massive buff that it should really require you to run an ability for it (ele drain) as a primary effect versus a secondary effect versus getting it for free.

For ward to be effective it really needs to change what it scales from because currently the only setup that can run ward is one with 50k+ magicka which you're making a damage sacrifice.

I think the suggestions you gave would certainly bring it more up to par but ultimately unless the scaling is changed it is pigeon wholed into usage by one setup.

Duke_Falcon · January 29

Happy Valentines Day!!! lol Okay we're not quiet there yet., but really.... Stop twisting my arm, I'll take Arcanist Shields over Sorcs. 8-P

Those were some interesting ideas for Sorc Shields though Turtle. Appreciate your thoughts.

(I'm just copying and pasting your quote, as I'm not that savvy with the quote function on here)
If I were to rework conjured ward + morphs I would do the following:
Conjured Ward:
Shield cap is increased to 65% of max health.

Hardened Ward:
Cap scales from 72% to 75% as it levels. Now grants interrupt immunity while active and reduces damage the shield takes by an additional 10%.

This emphasizes the hardened aspect of this morph and helps it to last slightly longer by slightly reducing the damage it takes.

Regenerative Ward:
Shield cap is now 65% of max health to match Conjured Ward. Now also heals the caster for X health per second for 10 seconds on cast and grants minor vitality while the shield is active.

This emphasizes the regenerative aspect and finally gives sorcerer a real heal over time in the class kit.

This also creates a unique decision dynamic for sorcerers to choose from. Do you go with hardened for the slightly bigger shield + dark deal is now a reliable heal, or do you forgo the more reliable access to dark deals sustain/buffs and run regenerative for the heal + shield to give you better survivability/recovery from the execute phase.

Duke_Falcon · January 29

Hold the Phone Boys and Girls!!!! ZoS has heard our crys and answered our prayers.... There's a patch coming v9.3.0.

Daedric Summoning

Conjured Ward: This ability and the Hardened Ward morph will now heal you for 15% of your Max Health or Magicka (whichever is higher) if no pets were shielded by the abilities.

Regenerative Ward (morph): This morph now also heals you for 10% of your Max Health or Magicka, regardless of if a pet was affected by the shield or not.

Developer Comment: Spoiler
In efforts to aid lone wolf Sorcerers, we’re adding a conditional bonus on this ability that makes up for the power loss it receives when you don’t have pets with you, while also trying to make up for some loss in not running their primary burst heal with the Summon Twilight. We’re also improving Regenerative Ward’s bonuses in hopes it gets more engagement, by making the heal a guarantee but with a reduction in healing so it doesn’t overshadow Hardened Ward.

Expert Summoner:

This passive now increases your Max Health by 5/10% while you have a summoned pet of any kind, up from 4/8% when you have a Daedric Summoning ability active.

This passive now also increases your Max Magicka and Stamina by 5/10% while you do not have a summoned pet of any kind.

Developer Comment: Spoiler
We’re splitting this passive out to be more adaptive to the different build types we see Sorcerer players engage with. Much feedback over the years has noted that playing the class without pets can often feel very limiting and less powerful overall, so we’re attempting to add small bonuses for those lone wolf Sorcerers out there.

We will be able to run a variety of 5 pc sets now, but I think we are still locked into Chudans.

Pelanora · January 30

"Moving on, our primary focus for class adjustments this update was on the Sorcerer class, where we’ve seen a sizable amount of feedback over the years on how the class feels significantly weaker when not using pets, as well as lacking many support options for group interaction. To remedy this, we’ve reworked a handful of morphs, passives, and tweaked a few numbers on abilities. Encase has received numerous improvements to make it more universally applicable. Restraining Prison has been reworked to Vibrant Shroud and is now an Area of Effect burst heal ability that also enfeebles enemies, while Daedric Minefield is now Daedric Refuge, which grants you and allies a damage shield when walking over its area. In addition to these bigger reworks, the Expert Summoner passive now offers a dynamic for both pet builds and non-pet builds! Make sure to read more in the Sorcerer section to see all the specific adjustments."