The human dynamics of Bastion Nymic don't work

carly

I haven't had a chance to do Bastion Nymic yet. Like others, I'm waiting to see if I can team up with others at the same stage as me to get in. I am looking forward to a more challenging area but I wouldn't mind if it is was like Deadlands portals where more people could enter and you could team up with anyone to accomplish the mission. Although I play solo, I don't mind grouping up for something like that. So yes to more challenging please but just allow more people to be able to zone in at the same time so we aren't limited to begging in chat for someone to join.

Loving the DLC so far.

Malprave

I have to say, I played Bastion Nymic today and I absolutely loved it. Dusted off my old stam sorc that I use for the arenas and got all the way to the final boss and fell victim to “devour brain”. I realize it isn’t supposed to be solo content but the devour brain thing seemed a little strong. Maybe there’s some kind of tell for this attack that I’m missing but in another part of the forum they’re saying no. Maybe you’ve gotta carry a stick and wear a skirt to do that part. I don’t know.

Lady_Sleepless

I duoed it with my partner and we had a blast. I really liked it, I just wish there was more than 3 pathways.

TheValkyn

I soloed it tonight. If I can then most can. lol

BasP

To see what all the fuss was about, I thought I'd try to solo it on my level 30 Arcanist with Mirri as a healer companion. I figured I'd fail, but I completed it without dying once (even though Mirri was dead during a couple of fights). I didn't do the puzzles though and only followed the objective, which pointed me towards the Noxious Herald. All in all I spent slightly over 20 minutes in the Nymic and found it fun.

My thoughts after completing it:

• I really liked the way the Bastion Nymic looked
• Please don't reduce the difficulty of the enemies inside the Nymic
• It'd be nice if the chest at the end dropped better loot though. Something like Transmute Crystals perhaps? As a solo player I mostly get my crystals from farming vVH and doing ToT, but I can definitely see myself doing this Nymic often too if I could get them this way.
• Having to kill 5 Seekers to access the Nymic is a bit much however, as that is the boring part of the Daily. 1 - 3 would be better.

Margha_Ralmoren

I tried to solo it twice. First time I couldn't kill the final boss because it used devour brain on my pets and companion. Then I tried it again with another build but I got the infinite stun bug from a mob. i logged out and in again which fixed the bug. The mobs I already killed were still dead, however the wall barriers were back up, so I got stuck again.

Elsonso

BasP wrote: »

To see what all the fuss was about, I thought I'd try to solo it on my level 30 Arcanist with Mirri as a healer companion

• Having to kill 5 Seekers to access the Nymic is a bit much however, as that is the boring part of the Daily. 1 - 3 would be better.

I was thinking that one would be enough, actually.

The Herald Seekers at the start took long enough that I moved onto something more interesting for the day. I categorize them above the level of a group public dungeon boss, which is as high as I think they should go for a PUG sans Finder dungeon entry activity.

I still have the quest, but I am thinking more along the lines of a weekly quest.

Margha_Ralmoren

OK I finally managed to defeat the boss without problem and now I'm visiting the rest of the bastion.
I honestly like it. It reminds me of soloing Craglorn quests or exploring the Imperials sewers, two zones that have their own rules. The bastion is a refreshing place that sets Necrom apart from the rest of the overland zones. Also the game is in dire need of more group content with middle difficulty like this. The bastion is a place where veterans and new players can both enjoy without the former getting bored or the latter getting their butt kicked.

I think it would be better to:
1) remove the magic walls that are useless and create problems
2) Make the world event daily quest just killing the five keepers, that way everyone can participate. It's the charm of a world event after all: you're passing by, you see a comotion, you intervene.
Then completing the Bastion Nymic is just a bonus. You could also add better rewards like transmute crystals, purple furnishings and motifs.

joe_schmo

- Reduce seeker health to 800k
- Reduce the seeker ichor needed to 3
- Reduce combat range of seekers
- When grouping as long as 1 person had the ichor the whole group can enter
- Add Bastion Nymic to group finder
- Add better rewards at the end

There, I fixed it

Dr_Con

the messages in this thread make me wonder if people posting have killed the seekers at all.

notyuu

The main problem with the nymics, other than the grouping issues that have been listed out at least two dozen times by now is that they are just tedious, the mobs have too much HP for the damage they dish out so you spend most of your time just smacking a sponge only to get rewarded with the same junk box that you can get 50 times faster by doing one of the other dalies

phileunderx2

Went with some friends last night to complete one for the daily. All went well until I think we were near the end and there was a room with 3 large green barriers. Two of our group were able to go through the barriers just fine ,but me and another could not.
We had done everything together so I don't know why half of our group was excluded.
Anyway it was 2 am by that point and I abandoned that daily.
So for me this content was not good.
I wasn't happy having to spend 2 hrs getting to a point that I couldn't progress through.

mickeyx

So finally managed to do it today with group of randoms. It was boring quest over all and unnecessarily lengthy. If this was a weekly i would be ok but daily? No thanks. Just wanted the achievement for it and i am never going back in again. Oh and the rewards are terrible for the amount of effort you put in it.
But i am sure some people will still do it just to show them damn casuals how cool they are for doing this "hard" content. (Isn't even hard just lengthy since all bosses just have huge amount of HP).

Arthtur

Short version:
So.... I did Bastion Nymic 7 or 8 times already. At the start it was rather fun but after few times there is no reason to do it anymore. Most likely i will get all achievements and forget that this exists.

Long version:
From the start... Getting 5 ichors is alright. If you are in a group that's it. Solo? Even in a good spot its still at least 10 minutes of rather wasted time.

Difficulty was alright for me and my friends. Enemies didnt die that fast and didnt feel like damage sponges. Damage was fine too.
But... There are adds that have hard CC that ignores block and doesnt have any prior animations. Not gonna lie, dying because u got CCed while blocking sucks. There is nothing to do against it other than to hope that it wont hit you at the worst time.

Bastion looks amazing, not much to say there.

Secrets were okay. It wasnt anything hard but it was better than "press e until it clicks".

And now for the biggest problem. Rewards. Or rather lack of rewards.
What's the point of doing this? Trash sets from overland? Seriously...
I knows that there are furnishing and furnishing plans drops but... Out of all runs i got 1 blue plan and 1 book that just takes space. My friends at the same time got nothing. I dont rly want to do something just because there is a small chance that i will get something.
Like at the bare minimum some transmute stones. This would be good enough reason to do it from time to time.
The same with secrets. Like why? U do them once and forget that they exist.
There is no benefit for doing all wings or secrets. U are just wasting ur time doing so.

So yeah. I will do it for achievements and forget about it most likely. Furnishing plans i will just buy or i wont if they will cost too much. There is no point in doing this.

Its kinda sad that soon it will be dead and ZOS will be like "players asked for vet overland and we gave them one but they didnt like it".

On a side note: if delves and public dungeons in Necrom would have a veteran difficulty at the level of Bastion Nymic... This would make Necrom the best chapter for me. Oh well.

Toanis

A big part of this is players asking them to make overland "more difficult". What is "difficult"?

1. Boss hitting like a truck and one shotting you if you don't dodge constantly? Has a lot of ragequit potential.
2. Hard DPS checks resulting in one-shots when you fail? Balanced for whom, when DPS ranges from 5 to 100k?
3. Constant pushbacks and other CC? Yeah, no thanks.
4. A ton of HP? Drawing out of the combat, boring, but at least everyone can finish it and the better your dps, the faster.
5. Mechanics that make them invulnerable unless you do X? Drawing out combat, but okay when not overdone.
6. Optional mechanics that improve your damage/survivability when you can be bothered to do them? Yes please.

I'd prefer mechanics over a bullet sponge, but if that is no option, I'd say punching bag > cc jerk > dps checker > dodge trainer.

PrincessOfThieves

Arthtur wrote: »

And now for the biggest problem. Rewards. Or rather lack of rewards.

Exactly. Even if you can solo it, all other group activities are simply more rewarding.
Dungeons give you undaunted points, monster helmets, motifs, unique sets, keys and transmutes. Arenas all have unique gear and weapon sets, as well as transmutes and weekly leaderboard rewards. Even the old Craglorn trials drop golden jewelry and undaunted plunders, so even doing something like vet AA is more lucrative than the new content. You get a bunch of purple upgrade mats, a few plunders, a golden jewelry piece and maybe a motif. The same amount of time spent in Bastion Nymic would only yield a few blue items and maybe a recipe if you're lucky. The reward coffers aren't that great, either.

Jaraal

Arthtur wrote: »

Its kinda sad that soon it will be dead and ZOS will be like "players asked for vet overland and we gave them one but they didnt like it".

Except they can't ever truthfully say that. Instanced content is not overland.

The only thing overland about this is killing the Heralds. And they are just easy mode world bosses.

BlueRaven

Jaraal wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Its kinda sad that soon it will be dead and ZOS will be like "players asked for vet overland and we gave them one but they didnt like it".

Except they can't ever truthfully say that. Instanced content is not overland.

The only thing overland about this is killing the Heralds. And they are just easy mode world bosses.

But this is how they chose to fulfill that request for a “more difficult” overland. If it does not work then….

I mean it’s not an “event” either, but it’s still called that.

Jaraal

BlueRaven wrote: »

But this is how they chose to fulfill that request for a “more difficult” overland. If it does not work then….

I mean it’s not an “event” either, but it’s still called that.

I think this is an assumption made by players. I don't recall them ever mentioning anything along the lines of "We're working on some harder overland content for you guys..." And if they did, I missed it.

colossalvoids

Jaraal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

But this is how they chose to fulfill that request for a “more difficult” overland. If it does not work then….

I mean it’s not an “event” either, but it’s still called that.

I think this is an assumption made by players. I don't recall them ever mentioning anything along the lines of "We're working on some harder overland content for you guys..." And if they did, I missed it.

I believe it's loosely based on one of the RL interviews where he mentioned that they're hearing the community and trying different things out.

Elsonso

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Went with some friends last night to complete one for the daily. All went well until I think we were near the end and there was a room with 3 large green barriers. Two of our group were able to go through the barriers just fine ,but me and another could not.
We had done everything together so I don't know why half of our group was excluded.

You would think that after all these years of making dungeons, they would have learned to not put "doors" in them.

Jaraal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

But this is how they chose to fulfill that request for a “more difficult” overland. If it does not work then….

I mean it’s not an “event” either, but it’s still called that.

I think this is an assumption made by players. I don't recall them ever mentioning anything along the lines of "We're working on some harder overland content for you guys..." And if they did, I missed it.

I agree about the assumption. The monsters are not necessarily harder, just more tedious.

Seekers is basically a world boss that waits for a player to attack it. Most of the time, they are wandering the land without anyone giving them a second thought. The few times I have seen one in combat, there is usually a player resurrecting nearby. Sometimes more than one. The solo attempts that I have seen have ended with a player resurrecting. Definitely not "easy" content, even with other players. Over time, expect that fewer people will have problems, once the mechanics are learned.

I still think they need to reduce the number from 5 to 1. They don't need to be easier, just fewer. The draw is Bastion Nymic and that makes the Seekers just an annoyance preceding the reason for being there.

Jaraal

Elsonso wrote: »

Seekers is basically a world boss that waits for a player to attack it. Most of the time, they are wandering the land without anyone giving them a second thought. The few times I have seen one in combat, there is usually a player resurrecting nearby. Sometimes more than one. The solo attempts that I have seen have ended with a player resurrecting. Definitely not "easy" content, even with other players. Over time, expect that fewer people will have problems, once the mechanics are learned.

I still think they need to reduce the number from 5 to 1. They don't need to be easier, just fewer. The draw is Bastion Nymic and that makes the Seekers just an annoyance preceding the reason for being there.

To be fair, I usually go to places where two path close together so I can pull both and solo them together to save time. But I understand how some may not be prepared or geared for that. However, there are enough folks looking for ichors that it's easy to get a herald group together and take them down fairly quickly. And regardless of how relatively easy or hard they may be, I agree that it's totally unreasonable to require people to spend that much time just gathering keys. Plus, it's not even possible to pre-gather them at your leisure. You have to wait an entire day after doing a Bastion just to start the gathering process again.

Vexen

My entire issue with the daily is that you need 15 of them to be able to achieve Savior of Necrom ultimately - and other achievements in Nymic. So, if you want that, you can't skip this. Why have the ichors in place for something like that to even be able to GET to the instance? To solo those you need some decent gear or a group. It seems out of place for people that usually work on those adventurer type of achievements - non raider casuals.

flizomica

I really wanted to like these events, but after one attempt, I won't be touching them until they are reworked:

• The heralds aggroing their entire area around the overland is really irritating. I was interrupted so many times while trying to dig for antiquities.
• Requiring 5 heralds to open the portal is way too much, 1-2 would be ok.
• Locking it behind a daily is really annoying.
• Needing to LFG in zone for the event kinda sucks. If it has approximately 4-man dungeon difficulty and is scaled for that many players, we should be able to queue for it.
• Realizing that antiquity leads and one of the shroomtender outfit style pieces is locked behind them was such a massive bummer lol.

How I would fix it:

• Make it more like oblivion portals, where it isn't instanced.
• If it remains instanced, scale it for a solo player instead - approximately the difficulty of normal MA or VH? Or scale it to the number of players in the instance?
• Reduce or eliminate the daily aspect, and reduce or eliminate the need to kill 5 heralds.

Also, I want to reiterate that what I want more of personally is harder, solo and/or overland content. This is awkwardly hard instanced content accessed via the overland, where you're somewhat forced to group, but without available QoL tools like group finder. It feels like a combination of the worst parts of all that content.

Wolfkeks

So, I'm done with all the achievements now - so feedback time

1. Difficulty
Difficulty was mostly fine. I ran the content mostly with groups and sometimes solo. We had players with level 10 characters and players with over 3000 CP - all groups had a blast. The mobs were not insta dying to LA which was nice and you had to do the mechanics because otherwise the group could wipe. The Irrefutable Herald would insta kill us if we didn't bash it for example. It was a bit more challenging solo though if you look for a challenge. In the end it was challenging enough for myself and I quite enjoyed the difficulty and the new mechanics.
Difficulty Herald-wise it was:
Hermaeus Mora > Peryite > Vaemina

2. Ichors
Ichors were quite annoying tbh. Doing the Herald Seekers or the Herald Seeker WB for Ichors felt more like killing time than anything else. It was cool fighting them the first time but doing this quest 30 times... and killing the Herald Seekers again and again and again... not so much fun.
Also there are two wayshrines at least (1. Ald Isra Wayshrine , 2. Apogee Nadir Wayshrine) where the Seekers spawn too close to the teleportation point and you get insta pulled into a fight (or die instantly sometimes which is a bit awkward lol)

3. Puzzles
Puzzles were good. Hard to do with randoms tbh but fun nonetheless. It is not always easy to do this with random groups as you need to coordinate some things (and sometimes the instance gets bugged) but since this is a new event and many people wanted to join in it was doable. This might change when the content gets older though.
Difficulty Puzzle-wise it was:
Hermaeus Mora > Peryite > Vaemina (Coordination)
Peryite > Vaemina > Hermaeus Mora (Bugginess)

Tips for the puzzles:

> Hermaeus Mora <

Read the strange books volume 1 - 4 that are scattered around the place. Before the first boss there are glowing green cubes that have symbols over their heads. Change them to the right symbols that are displayed in the books.

After that you will walk into a room. You will see 3 to 4 glowing symbols on the floor before they will dissapear and the whole floor will lit up. Walk to the tiles that lit up the moment you stepped in. If you do this correctly the symbols will dissapear before another sequence begins. If you do it incorrectly the tile will glow red and you have to start over.
This puzzle has no mobs.

Room:

Room Lit Up:

1. Lights

2. Lights

3. Lights

> Peryite <

As far as we understood it one player has to drink from 3 green chalices and the activate the 'puke' buff on the dragon statue. Then a secret doorway will open to the right and the left. We had one run were we had one player drink the green stuff and one player drink the red stuff and it still works. The only way to mess it up is if one players drinks from green and red or if more than one player drinks from the green stuff. Then you can't do it in this instance anymore.

Edit by Jaraal

Jaraal wrote: »

The good news is that the chalices are on a timer. If you mess it up, and wait long enough, they will respawn and you can do it over again. The chalices are actually buffs, and you can see them in your active effects on the character screen. Make sure you have all three active before activating the altar. And as long as you don't enter the portal to the final boss, you can go back and retry it as many times as you like.

> Vaemina <

Easy one but also easy to mess it up due to a bug. There are little purple flames which spawn Nightmares. Kill the Nightmare and activate the buff. You will now be able to see a glowing purple orb near where you killed the Nightmare. Activate the buff near it. Rinse and repeat 3 more times. But if you kill a second Nightmare and another players gets the buff then you won't be able to complete this anymore. If you have 2 players with this buff while destroying the orb it will take both buffs and you will miss the last one for the last orb.

4. Leads
The golden leads dropped pretty fast within the first 10 times. There are 3 in total, 1 for the music box, 1 for the body marks and one for the face marks. But the drop rate seems good.

5. Rewards
Well first of all you get a pet if you do all the achievements inside the Bastion Nymic. 30 daily quest, doing the puzzles and killing the Hermaeus Mora, Peryite and Vaemina bosses. The pet is quite nice.

Otherwise you get purple jewerly which is nice for desconstruction and furnshingi plans. After 30 runs I got 3 purple furnshing plans that seemed to be rarer than the ones that dropped from urns. Though I have to say even though they look quite nice that is not an incentive for me to come back.

6. Bugs
There are quite a few bugs inside Bastion Nymic.
General bugs can be that sometimes your character can't open the door or interact with certain things until you relog. This happens even without addons and can be quite hindering.

- Hermaeus Mora Wing
Bashing the Herald does not always work
Herald sometimes resets itself without warning

- Vaemina
The puzzle can be bugged if you do certain things (see spoilers)
You can get stuck inside the barriers because the mobs can throw you inside the barrier - even after lifting the barrier and killing the mobs you can stay stuck and have to relog
Barriers don't always lift after you kill the mobs and you have to restart the whole quest or wait long enough for the instance to reset

- Peryite
So far the best instance but you can lock yourself out of the side boss if you do the puzzle wrong (see spoilers)

7. Grouping
Finding a group is okay atm but this might change later on when everyone got their achievements (like myself who will probably only do them if friends or guildies need the achievements or if they add new rewards). While these quests can be done solo it might be hard for some people doing them, espacially if they have to get the 5 ichors first.
Might be good to add a group finder later on for these quests.



All in all I enjoyed the new event. Difficulty was good but ZOS may have tweek grouping and rewards to make this event last.

Necrotech_Master

joe_schmo wrote: »

- Reduce seeker health to 800k
- Reduce the seeker ichor needed to 3
- Reduce combat range of seekers
- When grouping as long as 1 person had the ichor the whole group can enter
- Add Bastion Nymic to group finder
- Add better rewards at the end

There, I fixed it

only 1 person does need the ichor

if the quest is shared after the nymic is open, then it skips the ichor step for the rest of the group

however if you share the quest before you get the ichor, it greatly reduces the amount of heralds because the ichor counts multiple times from the entire group

so if you have a group of 3-4, then you only need to kill 2 heralds to get enough ichor

Jaraal

Wolfkeks wrote: »

> Peryite <

As far as we understood it one player has to drink from 3 green chalices and the activate the 'puke' buff on the dragon statue. Then a secret doorway will open to the right and the left. We had one run were we had one player drink the green stuff and one player drink the red stuff and it still works. The only way to mess it up is if one players drinks from green and red or if more than one player drinks from the green stuff. Then you can't do it in this instance anymore.

The good news is that the chalices are on a timer. If you mess it up, and wait long enough, they will respawn and you can do it over again. The chalices are actually buffs, and you can see them in your active effects on the character screen. Make sure you have all three active before activating the altar. And as long as you don't enter the portal to the final boss, you can go back and retry it as many times as you like.

Necrotech_Master

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

> Peryite <

As far as we understood it one player has to drink from 3 green chalices and the activate the 'puke' buff on the dragon statue. Then a secret doorway will open to the right and the left. We had one run were we had one player drink the green stuff and one player drink the red stuff and it still works. The only way to mess it up is if one players drinks from green and red or if more than one player drinks from the green stuff. Then you can't do it in this instance anymore.

The good news is that the chalices are on a timer. If you mess it up, and wait long enough, they will respawn and you can do it over again. The chalices are actually buffs, and you can see them in your active effects on the character screen. Make sure you have all three active before activating the altar. And as long as you don't enter the portal to the final boss, you can go back and retry it as many times as you like.

good to know lol

Jaraal

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

> Peryite <

As far as we understood it one player has to drink from 3 green chalices and the activate the 'puke' buff on the dragon statue. Then a secret doorway will open to the right and the left. We had one run were we had one player drink the green stuff and one player drink the red stuff and it still works. The only way to mess it up is if one players drinks from green and red or if more than one player drinks from the green stuff. Then you can't do it in this instance anymore.

The good news is that the chalices are on a timer. If you mess it up, and wait long enough, they will respawn and you can do it over again. The chalices are actually buffs, and you can see them in your active effects on the character screen. Make sure you have all three active before activating the altar. And as long as you don't enter the portal to the final boss, you can go back and retry it as many times as you like.

good to know lol

Yeah I've done a few of these solo so I could take my time and examine the puzzles completely, because it seems like there should be more hidden areas based upon the way certain features are designed. Plus, if you do a Bastion Nymic in a group, you are hit with the "removing from area" dungeon group kick timer after completing the center boss. However, if you kill the final boss solo, it's possible to do the other quarters under the right circumstances, without ever leaving the dungeon. And, some mobs will respawn if you wait long enough as well.

As far as the chalices go... you will get (slightly) different results if you use the red ones instead of the green ones. And you can use the altar repeatedly, since the chalices respawn, too.

Necrotech_Master

i havent done a nymic solo yet, mainly because its already tiring having to kill 5 herald seekers each time you want to get into a nymic, so i been doing these slowly in order to wait for them to hopefully adjust the amount of herald seekers needed