The human dynamics of Bastion Nymic don't work

Bekkael

Picked up the quest knowing absolutely nothing about it, on console release day.

(About the character I was playing on: she is my main, a magicka DK who has extremely low damage, due to being built very tanky for survivability. She is often the last character left alive on any very hard fight, world boss etc. I made her that way intentionally, because if you can't stay alive all alone while even your healer takes a dirt nap, then you can't complete quests/dailies/world bosses and such, and my character gives other people the time to resurrect so those fights don't reset. She is the only character I have like that, so I use her on all new or difficult content, to test the waters for my other characters, who die easily.)

Here's what I hate about Bastion Nymic:

Seekers-
-They take bloody forever to kill by myself (with companion), and all but one I had to solo. NOT. FUN.
-The tentacles make several wayshrines unusable in both zones, due to being put into combat OVER, AND OVER, AND OVER from a fight nobody wanted. Wayshrines should be made into safety zones immune from combat if you insist on leaving this ridiculous Seeker fight mechanic in the game. Currently, I find the new zone miserable and annoying due to Seekers. If it remains as is, I will finish all the story quests then never go back to the zone, it's just not worth the frustration, to me.

Actual Bastion Nymic Dungeon-
-I asked to join others in Zone but got no response after waiting and trying for a bit. This DESPERATELY needs some new type of in-zone group finder, or to be added to the dungeon grouping system already in game.
-Since I couldn't find anyone to group with, I went in alone with a maxed healer Bastian. I cleared the first fight of the mob I came across. This first fight was harder and took longer than the first fight of a Trial I attempted solo, waaay back before there were companions and when my DK was still godly in combat and hadn't been nerfed into the ground. I repeat: THE BASTION NYMIC TRASH MOB FIGHT FELT HARDER AND TOOK LONGER THAN A TRIAL TRASHMOB. That is ridiculous. I left the Bastion Nymic dungeon and consequently couldn't finish the quest.

Here's what I love about the Bastion Nymic quest:

..................Yeah, I got nothing. There was absolutely nothing I enjoyed about it, and it crossed from dislike into HATE when it infringed on other things I was trying to do in the new zone so many times. Please fix or change at least the Seeker tentacles so wayshrines are no longer affected, as that is definitely a deal-breaker for the zone, for me.

/Feedback

To say something positive, I love the look of the new zone, and so far I love the new class and new companions too. ♥

BlueRaven

colossalvoids wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

Susan_Sto wrote: »

I don't envy ZOS's position, trying to create more engaging content for endgame/Vet players but is still manageable for Casuals. From the comments, they haven't hit the sweet spot meaning that Vet players love BN's and Casuals hate them.

Nailed it. People who like instanced group dungeons are enjoying this instanced group dungeon in an area where people go to enjoy the exact opposite of this type of activity. So, when the next dungeon DLC comes out, give us 1 dungeon and 1 wacky Overland incursion, as a fun surprise. I'm sure the dungeon crowd will be extremely stoked about this and will not at all be on the forums complaining.

That's really weird comparison, it's more of "when third in ten years solo arena comes, do one round a dolmen" because one year was without one, bad zos, bad zos. Dungeon people got one dlc instead of two already, saying it to you as a dungeon person. And no, endless dungeon won't fit my 4 man group as far as we know, it's a solo/due endeavour which is also different public.

I don’t understand, then who do you think the ‘endless dungeon’ target audience is? Casuals? RPers? The pvp crowd? Overland questers we’re not demanding this. It’s only appeal is to people who like doing dungeons, trials and/or arenas.

(And in the past an arena and world events were not mutually exclusive.)

Bastion nymics are just repurposed dungeons, maybe they don’t need a dedicated healer, maybe not a dedicated tank, but they are basically a slightly re-engineered dungeon. Like delves and public dungeons are variations, it’s just a newer spin on it.
They were clearly aimed at people who want a greater PvE challenge, just as the endless dungeon seems to be.

bongtokin420insd16

So honestly, i picked it up first time yesterday. While i was doing other dailies, someone did a "need 2 dps" post so I joined. Took us about 45 mins. We killed the seekers, entered the portal, did the puzzle, and killed the boss. I got the fragment and like 3 other leads to drop. EZPZ. I died once, and I think was the only death. Sure, it wasn't the easiest thing in the world to do, but it was fun and different. Don't see a super need to do it again. So, i may just pick up the quest and hold it until I see peeps grouping again and just join them. But i didn't have a bad experience at all.

Ilsabet

bongtokin420insd16 wrote: »

So, i may just pick up the quest and hold it until I see peeps grouping again and just join them.

Having a quest saved may actually backfire on you, since there are four identically-named versions of this quest and you might run into trouble if you have a different version than the people you join. Best bet is to ask for a quest share after you join the group from zone.

EmilyElizabethESO

I'm on console and did my first one last night and it wasn't too bad. It was a pug and we all seemed to have good dps and we died a few times but it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be

colossalvoids

BlueRaven wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Cireous wrote: »

Susan_Sto wrote: »

I don't envy ZOS's position, trying to create more engaging content for endgame/Vet players but is still manageable for Casuals. From the comments, they haven't hit the sweet spot meaning that Vet players love BN's and Casuals hate them.

Nailed it. People who like instanced group dungeons are enjoying this instanced group dungeon in an area where people go to enjoy the exact opposite of this type of activity. So, when the next dungeon DLC comes out, give us 1 dungeon and 1 wacky Overland incursion, as a fun surprise. I'm sure the dungeon crowd will be extremely stoked about this and will not at all be on the forums complaining.

That's really weird comparison, it's more of "when third in ten years solo arena comes, do one round a dolmen" because one year was without one, bad zos, bad zos. Dungeon people got one dlc instead of two already, saying it to you as a dungeon person. And no, endless dungeon won't fit my 4 man group as far as we know, it's a solo/due endeavour which is also different public.

I don’t understand, then who do you think the ‘endless dungeon’ target audience is? Casuals? RPers? The pvp crowd? Overland questers we’re not demanding this. It’s only appeal is to people who like doing dungeons, trials and/or arenas.

(And in the past an arena and world events were not mutually exclusive.)

Bastion nymics are just repurposed dungeons, maybe they don’t need a dedicated healer, maybe not a dedicated tank, but they are basically a slightly re-engineered dungeon. Like delves and public dungeons are variations, it’s just a newer spin on it.
They were clearly aimed at people who want a greater PvE challenge, just as the endless dungeon seems to be.

Your community division is interesting but not accurate at all, there are lots in-between all those things. And I'm pretty sure it has way more to do with overland in devs head than anything related to dungeons as it's nothing like one. Not that part of community agrees with that.

Look, I see some are angry not being catered to for the first time in entire game's existence, but some are bored to death with stale samy design and weren't catered to for years, be it PvP, arena's folk or anyone that had no attention whatsoever to their want's and needs. It's not a war you're on, it's just what happens to literally every bit of game's population at some point when they're having expectations not met. We've all been there, or are still. No evil dungeoneers took anything from you, it's devs experimenting with incursions event that people were always dissatisfied with, maybe except dragons as those are still considered pretty cool to some.

Yeah it was aimed for people wanting a greater challenge but those aren't equal to people doing trials, or dungeons, or both, it's a huge subset of players from casual to very hardcore as you'd learn with overland content feedback thread. Did they've missed on this one "solution" if it was one? Probably, still you have no one to put your anger to but zeni.

I'd you want to believe all 4/12 man groups are stoked about Nymic or all are eager to step in a content that can fit only 1/2 person that's not making it a fact.

Jaraal

Ilsabet wrote: »

bongtokin420insd16 wrote: »

So, i may just pick up the quest and hold it until I see peeps grouping again and just join them.

Having a quest saved may actually backfire on you, since there are four identically-named versions of this quest and you might run into trouble if you have a different version than the people you join. Best bet is to ask for a quest share after you join the group from zone.

Conversely, I think having group members with different versions of the quest is what unlocks the other wings in a single instance. I've been in groups that only had one quarter unlocked, groups with two quarters unlocked, and groups with all three quarters (!) open. Note that there's only one final boss available, but it's possible to do all three hidden bosses and the first big boss in all areas in this manner.

Inaya1

I, as an old teso player, on the contrary, really liked the bastion nymic. Finally, I was able to feel the overland content somehow throwing me a test of strength, and not just being destroyed for fun as if I were a dragonborn. For the sake of this, I even called my companions with adjusted gear and OH GOD! FINALLY THEY HAVE BEEN USED! Bastian had a great hold on the boss and gave me protective shields, ember helped me kill trash packs. As a stamina nightblade, I finally felt the pleasure of the game. I even had the idea to call my friends for this, but I had enough companions. Properly selected equipment for their passive abilities and weapons (it's really inexpensive. I spent a total of 150k on each companion for the best blue/viol equipment) and they finally proved to be really needed.

Now I want the whole overland to be like this. To make it interesting to run with friends and companions, and not just cut everything alone. The rewards are still not mandatory and not particularly needed there, so why are they for beginners who just do quests? Give us more complexity in the world!

But in the quest of finding ichor seekers, I would still make small corrections. Each mob has 1.5 million hp and this is a lot, but interesting. To search, you need to kill as many as 5 seekers! It really takes a lot of time, even considering the fact that killing them is not difficult. Make a quest just to find 1-2 ichor instead of 5, no need to nerf HP of seekers.

For other people.
The Zos have given you a monstrous amount of different tools for your gear. You can literally create an unkillable terminator. If you are constantly dying, THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM. Adjust your build, adapt to the environment. If, on the contrary, you want to write to the developers so that they nerf it, please, just NEVER go to THIS CONTENT again not to spoil the game for other people. IT'S NOT FOR YOU, IT'S FOR THE GROUP. THIS IS NOT SOLO SKYRIM. There is nothing here necessary for your main/additional quests walkthrough. JUST IGNORE THESE PLACES. Or get ready and call your comrades. Or me. I don't mind.

TaSheen

I already don't do this content. If it expands to overland, I'll be effectively out of the game. A decent build and lots of CP doesn't help against up to 999+ ping. And with poor reflexes due to being in my mid 70s, though I never did like twitchy combat in any case, even when I was much younger. I'm not about to drop mega-ping on a group - that would be far and away unfair.

HappyTheCamper

The Bastion Nymic is objectively neat and they are pretty fun.

The problem is this is a *daily quest*. I have done this with 4 experienced players and its still always just a slog. Why the hell does every single add pull have to have 2-3 waves of respawning adds? It’s not necessarily hard, it’s just loooooooong. Like way too long for a daily repeatable. Also the damn Final seeker boss with the mind eating one-shot is bugged or it needs its interruption mechanic to be more visible.

Yes, I like them, but they take too much time even when running with good, trusting guildies. 30 of these things for an achievement?!? I have a headache already prepping for it.

RevJJ

After having done thirty of these to get the mount, I don’t think the Bastion Nymic itself is hard at all (except when the devour brain bug happens, which was what happened multiple times during my first run). It’s just… tedious. Like the post above by someone else, multiple add waves of adds that are damage sponges just make it seem to drag on and on.

I made a couple of million from furnishing plans that dropped but I was hoping to get some book furnishings that are also in the loot table. In thirty runs I got one book. And it was bound, just like the ones from Scrivener’s Hall apparently are.

In my opinion, in order for this content to not die out fast, the number of seekers necessary to be killed needs to be reduced (to be able to open gates faster) and rewards improved.

Sarannah

Unrelated question.... where are the puzzles inside the bastion? And can I still do the puzzles after the bastion is already completed(backtrack to complete them)?

kevkj

Sarannah wrote: »

Unrelated question.... where are the puzzles inside the bastion? And can I still do the puzzles after the bastion is already completed(backtrack to complete them)?

Yes, in fact you can do all 3 puzzles in one run! Peryite/Green one might need a partner, or might just involve additional backtracking solo. You can always do all 3 zone bosses + secrets but will only ever get one final boss.

BahometZ

Have just done a few of these on console, one with a group of fresh low level and un-optimised arcanists, and another with an optimised dungeon group of four people. My 2 cents to add to others...

First time it was gruelling, we were weak and fights took a while, skipped some of the puzzles, not realising till after that there was a puzzle component, rewards were overland gear. We left not particularly impressed, but figured with more effort put into completing the whole area with puzzles and secret bosses unlocked there would be more reward.

Second time we took our time and did everything, every fight was easy, no one came close to dying, even when we split up to explore. Rewards for unlocking extra fights and completing all puzzles was more overland gear. I think someone got a lead. We received a style page from an achievement, but given how many styles there are now in the game it held little appeal. Honestly was more fun when we were all struggling with baby toons.

We were perplexed as to what the purpose was of the place. We left feeling like we wasted our time, resolving never to do the whole thing again, but perhaps the basic versions for the sake of achievements. None of the fights were particularly challenging, the puzzles were not especially engaging, the best part was throwing up on the statue.

In its current iteration, the bastion nymic doesn't seem to be worth the time. It could probably be solo'd or duo'd but not sure why you'd want to, for what little you got. I would gauge it as easier than a dlc vet dungeon, but excessively lengthy in its full iteration. Maybe that's OK, given that most people probably won't do it in full many times, and it will be quicker each time after that.

The rewards simply must be better, and you could say that about most content in eso at the moment. Instead the best stuff is sold in the crown store.

daemondamian

I decided to do the Necrom dailies on my main sorc so as to potentially get gold leads for my new arcanist char to level up antiquities.

Managed to solo Herald Seekers fine with a minor adjustment of skills but thought it was a bit excessive given that was just the start of it.

Went through the portal noting it saying this was a 4 person group content but went ahead anyway because I didn't think it would be as difficult as other 4pgc such as dungeons might be or more difficult than some other arenas are (solo & group).

Noted mobs were tougher than usual, adjusted my build.

First boss, had to readjust my build several times and reloadui due to bugs like health not returning to full after resurrecting.

Second/end boss, tedious but managed to get through it. I got crap loot but fortunately a gold lead.

Took a long time - longer than I thought it should or would for a daily. I'm not opposed to things being difficult & I've soloed every dungeon on normal (excluding ones with 2p mechs like ICP or DF) some easier ones on vet , solo arenas on vet as well as BRP on normal, but I'm hesitant to ever solo this again and dread trying to get into a group to do it either.

It's not overland in the same sense that a delve or public dungeon or the atoll of immolation is - it's restricted to 4 players.

It should either be added to the dungeon group finder with a normal (as is) or vet mode. Or open to all players who have killed the prerequisite 5 herald seekers.

I was exhilarated that I soloed it but then I duoed the Runemaster's Acropolis WB & after that quit ESO for half a day as I needed to go do something to relax & recover.

Lastly just because you enjoyed it or even soloed it doesn't mean everyone else has to or that you're better than them because they didn't or couldn't do it.

daemondamian

Vrienda wrote: »

I managed to solo it on my main but the rewards were basically the same as a delve daily so I'm left a little confused as to it's purpose? It didn't feel worth the effort. Which I'm kinda glad for honestly. It was fun once but daily would suck.

3 times to get the antiquities leads then why bother again was my feeling after soloing it.

Number_51

BasP wrote: »

On June 10 I already left some feedback after having done 1 Nymic solo on a level 30 Arcanist. Basically I enjoyed it, didn't think the difficulty should be changed at all, the rewards should be improved and the Seeker requirement should be lowered.

Now that my Arcanist is level 50 I thought I'd try it solo again to see if my opinion would change. This time the quest lead me to the Dreaming Quarter and after completing the Bastion Nymic my opinion hasn't changed much. I don't believe that the rewards have to be greatly improved anymore though. Considering it took me about 14 minutes to finish the BN itself I can imagine that a competent group of 2 - 4 people would stump all over it, which doesn't really warrant getting an awesome reward at the end.

Sarannah wrote: »

So, I did some Bastion Nymic runs the past few days, and I do think some things have to change. (Note: Haven't done the puzzles)

-Make the bastion soloable when manually entering it without a group: When entering the bastion solo, lower enemy health accordingly, like 60% less health on enemies. (Their health is WAY too high for a solo player)

God no. By that point it'd basically be a glorified Public Dungeon.

One idea that I believe is already mentioned in this thread and that I also like is that the Daily Quest could be turned into two parts. After having killed 5 Seekers you can return to the quest giver for a small reward, or choose to continue and do the Nymic for a slightly bigger reward (kind of like the Tales of Tribute Daily Quest that lets you battle 1 - 3 NPCs). The differences in these rewards shouldn't be too great though, so that players that can't or don't want to do the Bastion Nymic aren't missing out on much.

I like this idea (bolded). The mechanism for differing rewards is already in place in that it would be like completing a Thieves Guild daily Heist within the time limit for a purple box or, if you exceed the time limit, for a blue box.

KlauthWarthog

I still have not bothered running it a second time.
Every time I consider doing so, I look at that x/5 on the quest progress, remember that each of those hopelessly dull punching bags have 2 immunity phases, and just go do anything else instead.

Elsonso

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I still have not bothered running it a second time.
Every time I consider doing so, I look at that x/5 on the quest progress, remember that each of those hopelessly dull punching bags have 2 immunity phases, and just go do anything else instead.

I am not a fan of "immunity" phases and tend to ignore the boss activities that use them. I recognize these things as, not a challenge, but the response of a development team that is frustrated their new favorite boss will get burned down too quickly. I don't like to see the Hand of God taking an active part in the combat. Maybe, in the end, that is not the real reason, but it is what it feels like.

Jaraal

BahometZ wrote: »

In its current iteration, the bastion nymic doesn't seem to be worth the time. It could probably be solo'd or duo'd but not sure why you'd want to, for what little you got. I would gauge it as easier than a dlc vet dungeon, but excessively lengthy in its full iteration. Maybe that's OK, given that most people probably won't do it in full many times, and it will be quicker each time after that.

The rewards simply must be better, and you could say that about most content in eso at the moment. Instead the best stuff is sold in the crown store.

Agree 100%. To spend all this time killing five 1.8m HP bosses (Herald's Seekers), two 4.5m HP bosses, and a hidden boss and ending up with nothing better than blue decon gear is a real letdown. You can't even get the style materials for the new furnishings from either the bosses, chests, or rewards coffers. Very discouraging.

Elsonso wrote: »

KlauthWarthog wrote: »

I still have not bothered running it a second time.
Every time I consider doing so, I look at that x/5 on the quest progress, remember that each of those hopelessly dull punching bags have 2 immunity phases, and just go do anything else instead.

I am not a fan of "immunity" phases and tend to ignore the boss activities that use them. I recognize these things as, not a challenge, but the response of a development team that is frustrated their new favorite boss will get burned down too quickly. I don't like to see the Hand of God taking an active part in the combat. Maybe, in the end, that is not the real reason, but it is what it feels like.

Yes, the gimmicky immunity phases are quite annoying, and for me at least, immersion breaking. When I see a boss go solid bar and then waves of trash mobs start spawning, all I'm thinking is, "Oh, here's another one of ZOS' patented artificial fight extenders," and it detracts from the experience itself.

CGPsaint

Sarannah wrote: »

Unrelated question.... where are the puzzles inside the bastion? And can I still do the puzzles after the bastion is already completed(backtrack to complete them)?

Bastion Nymic Puzzle Map

Fate's Puzzler

Nightmare's Puzzler

Pestilence's Puzzler

The puzzles are not hard, just a bit time consuming, but if you do the puzzles and the side bosses, you can get 6 loot drops in addition to the final boss.

I was also able to stay in Bastion Nymic after completing the final boss, and was able to complete one of the puzzles solo. The only requirement for doing so is that you still have to be in a group, otherwise it will force you out of the instance. In my case, someone in my group was nice enough to stay grouped with me while I ran off and did the puzzle.

Sarannah

Thanks for the answers, that was exactly what I was looking for.

stargazer69

Who, in their right mind, would think this is a daily quest?

Kendaric

stargazer69 wrote: »

Who, in their right mind, would think this is a daily quest?

The devs obviously

stargazer69

Kendaric wrote: »

stargazer69 wrote: »

Who, in their right mind, would think this is a daily quest?

The devs obviously

Obviously, but that doesn't address the thinking behind the development of such an odious "daily" quest

Kendaric

True.

If I had to speculate, it is meant to keep you playing for longer. Basically the same reason so many bosses have those utterly annoying invulnerability phases just to prolong the fight and thus the time a player spends online.

stargazer69

Kendaric wrote: »

True.

If I had to speculate, it is meant to keep you playing for longer. Basically the same reason so many bosses have those utterly annoying invulnerability phases just to prolong the fight and thus the time a player spends online.

In which case, the devs are trying to hit marketing "engagement" metrics rather that player enjoyment.

Twohothardware

Please do not nerf this new content just because some people want an easy quick daily quest completion. ESO is full of overland daily quest content that's so easy it puts you to sleep.

Post in zone chat you need a group. This is a group activity balanced in difficulty around there being multiple players.

stargazer69

Twohothardware wrote: »

Please do not nerf this new content just because some people want an easy quick daily quest completion. ESO is full of overland daily quest content that's so easy it puts you to sleep.

Post in zone chat you need a group. This is a group activity balanced in difficulty around there being multiple players.

Please provide an example of any other daily quest where you have to form a group of players to complete

Snamyap

stargazer69 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Please do not nerf this new content just because some people want an easy quick daily quest completion. ESO is full of overland daily quest content that's so easy it puts you to sleep.

Post in zone chat you need a group. This is a group activity balanced in difficulty around there being multiple players.

Please provide an example of any other daily quest where you have to form a group of players to complete

Undaunted pledges? Anyway, I just do the nymics solo, till I hit 30 for the achievement.