What if Zenimax disables the shared DPS API?

Soarora

Tradewind wrote: »

alcoraptor wrote: »

However - it is absolutely not discrimination if the trial lead says "No 1 bars please", or tells you what build or which sets you need to run and refuses to let you join if you can't run them.

Okay, let's focus on this.

Create the perfect team for, let's say, vRG HM with 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, and 8 DDs.
Make one list, in order, of all the sets each player should use to cover the maximum possible buffs.

I'll give you some help. If you create this "perfect team," two players will have nothing to offer the group. Nothing! So why exclude players with 2 or just one bar?

Do you know how sellers sell vCR HM GH? One player starts the trial dead. Do you know why that's not important at all? Because no one needs them. The best they can offer is DPS, and these guys really don't need them.

When you or any other player replies to me with this information, then I'll return to the topic.

Easy answer. In a carry, those players are getting paid. A free carry can be done out of the goodness of peoples hearts but it should not be expected. Freeloaders waste everyone elses time because the content could have been done faster if all members were at the same level.

TimeWizard

Tradewind wrote: »

Do you know how sellers sell vCR HM GH? One player starts the trial dead. Do you know why that's not important at all? Because no one needs them. The best they can offer is DPS, and these guys really don't need them.

[/b]

as someone who has carried several GHs, this is actually not how it works. If someone is dead the whole trial, GH will not happen. Just FYI

As for your point about them not providing anything to the group, yes, there are a few 'parse' spots in every trial. These spots are expected to pull the highest damage in the group because they are not running support sets that lower individual damage in order to buff group damage. In carries, one of these spots will be excluded in exchange for the carry account, because the rest of the group has high enough damage to successfully complete the content missing a player. Most carry servers have very strict requirements for running carries, because they are missing an entire parse dps. An average team, where people are learning or progressing or on alt characters ect cannot afford to have the dps who should be pulling the highest dps because they have the entire rest of the team buffing them pull lower than the most jailed support dd.

FantasticFreddie

TaSheen wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Or perhaps this account with 250 CPoints is not my main account?

You seem to be a big fan of alt accounts. ^^

Glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed that.

Well, I'm a big fan of alt accounts too - currently have 3, play both PC megaservers, all are CP of various levels, from just under 1 k down to the newest on PC EU with just under 260 k. And I have tons of characters, because I'm an altoholic of course.

But I don't really care about the whole 1 bar HA thing, or the "shared DPS" nonsense, because I just solo - my mains (except for one) use Oakensoul with the bar setup with class skills and a weapon spammable - I'm not about to ask people to group with 750+ mega-ping.... And I got past wanting to do endgame stuff back in WoW and RIFT.

I don't see the minor nerf incoming as insurmountable. Just like when U35 dropped I was a little disturbed to begin with, but with a few gear tweaks and Oakensoul I'm actually doing better than prior to U35 when it comes to combat. So.... I just don't get the angst.

I don't use HA because I've never found HA fun. Yeah, I know - each to her own!

Oh I have 3 bought and paid for accounts in game, I mostly use them for storage and a second guild bank because dang it those 2000 jewelry writs WILL be worth doing some day!!!

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

Tradewind

Zastrix wrote: »

[snip]

What "could change the story" is if Zenimax blocked all kinds of DPS sharing options. I agree that I need to see my own DPS.

[edited to remove quote]

FantasticFreddie

TimeWizard wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

Do you know how sellers sell vCR HM GH? One player starts the trial dead. Do you know why that's not important at all? Because no one needs them. The best they can offer is DPS, and these guys really don't need them.

[/b]

as someone who has carried several GHs, this is actually not how it works. If someone is dead the whole trial, GH will not happen. Just FYI

As for your point about them not providing anything to the group, yes, there are a few 'parse' spots in every trial. These spots are expected to pull the highest damage in the group because they are not running support sets that lower individual damage in order to buff group damage. In carries, one of these spots will be excluded in exchange for the carry account, because the rest of the group has high enough damage to successfully complete the content missing a player. Most carry servers have very strict requirements for running carries, because they are missing an entire parse dps. An average team, where people are learning or progressing or on alt characters ect cannot afford to have the dps who should be pulling the highest dps because they have the entire rest of the team buffing them pull lower than the most jailed support dd.

If I am over here on EC/MK cro I BETTER be the lowest dps in the group.

TaSheen

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Or perhaps this account with 250 CPoints is not my main account?

You seem to be a big fan of alt accounts. ^^

Glad to see I'm not the only one who noticed that.

Well, I'm a big fan of alt accounts too - currently have 3, play both PC megaservers, all are CP of various levels, from just under 1 k down to the newest on PC EU with just under 260 k. And I have tons of characters, because I'm an altoholic of course.

But I don't really care about the whole 1 bar HA thing, or the "shared DPS" nonsense, because I just solo - my mains (except for one) use Oakensoul with the bar setup with class skills and a weapon spammable - I'm not about to ask people to group with 750+ mega-ping.... And I got past wanting to do endgame stuff back in WoW and RIFT.

I don't see the minor nerf incoming as insurmountable. Just like when U35 dropped I was a little disturbed to begin with, but with a few gear tweaks and Oakensoul I'm actually doing better than prior to U35 when it comes to combat. So.... I just don't get the angst.

I don't use HA because I've never found HA fun. Yeah, I know - each to her own!

Oh I have 3 bought and paid for accounts in game, I mostly use them for storage and a second guild bank because dang it those 2000 jewelry writs WILL be worth doing some day!!!

[snip]

Hmm. I would have thought sock puppeting not allowed? Ah well.

[edited to remove quote]

TimeWizard

Tradewind wrote: »

• Why is it so hard to believe that HA users are being penalized because of low DPS in 2 bars?
• Why is it so hard to understand that many players simply can't parse 110k with 2 bars due to disabilities or any other reason?
• Why do so many players think that anyone who can't parse 120k doesn't deserve things like Godslayer? It's a hard and top-tier achievement, yes, but why don't some players deserve to complete it with 1-bar builds if they simply can't parse with 2 bars? All players pay the same price for the game, plus and new chapters.

This is Elder Scrolls Online, a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. "multiplayer".

One more time. DPS sharing does nothing better then promote discrimination between players.

Okay lets break this down one at a time.
You are upset that 2bar HA builds dont perform well, despite 1b heavy attack builds arguably being far too strong for the effort required. (I dont speak about just dps, but cleave dps, survivability, and sustain)

Yes, some players can't parse exceptionally high for various reasons. They can still enjoy the game just fine. The only thing they really cannot achieve pvewise is the hardest HM and title achievements. But then again, most players who parse high with 2bar builds or whatever will never achieve these for various reasons either.

NO ONE intherently deserves titles like godslayer. Players can work hard towards achieving them and sometimes succeed and sometimes fail. Even the best players can fail to get a title the might 'deserve' because they dont have a group capable or scheduling errors or game bugging or any number of reasons. Players can also choose to pay other players to carry them for these titles if they so desire.

this is indeed an MMO. That means, which you dont seem to understand, that there are other players affected by YOUR choices. Some ways they can be affected is by not being at the level to carry another player but being forced to do so because one of their group members refuses to learn how to play the game.

VaranisArano

Zastrix wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

I'll give you some help. If you create this "perfect team," two players will have nothing to offer the group. Nothing! So why exclude players with 2 or just one bar?

Mate if I had a perfect team where everyone was focusing to provide all of the buffs for maximum damage, I'd expect maximum damage. Not for 2 DDs to act like they're privileged to play 1bar builds. Everyone is giving their best and unless you are not, get out of the group.

Edit:

[snip]

I think your point speaks to the human nature of creating a group.

Groups aren't public services offered by ZOS. They're created by players for their own reasons, and include/exclude people accordingly.

Some Guilds want that perfect group for their own enjoyment of record setting, score pushing, and personal bests. Obviously, this group has to have like-minded players to succeed. A "play-the-way-you-like" player might possibly be able to meet their raid requirements, but they'll never fit into the group's mentality (and probably wouldn't enjoy it either.)

Some Guilds will create a perfect carry group in order to make gold by doing what they love (running trials for challenging achievements) and frequently see themselves as offering a service to players who normally couldn't get those achievements without a carry.

There's nothing wrong with any of those choices. They're all players deciding how they're going to spend their free time, not public services.


One of the challenges of this conversation is that while many players who use HA builds are disabled, using an HA build is not a protected class under the TOS. A guild who's excluding someone just for a disability when they can otherwise meet raid requirements wouldn't be right...but guilds don't have to accept HA builds even if they do meet the min requirements for content. After all, there's only 12 slots on a raid team, and by design ZOS intends for 2-bar builds to be better.

There IS some nuance to the conversation, but I think that's something that each guild/group is going to have to decide for themselves. There are many endgame guilds who've shown that they are welcoming and accommodating of their disabled raiders. Meanwhile, if a guild's core identity is all about record-setting, they reasonably expect the highest level of commitment and performance from their teammates.

[edited to remove quote]

Tradewind

Players who use HA builds are often excluded from raids simply because they play with two bars. Even if they have high DPS and a good knowledge of mechanics, they may still be overlooked because of their HA build.
Of course, as a raid leader, it's your right to choose the players you want to invite, and I've also excluded people from my raids for various reasons. However, I don't think I've ever excluded someone solely because they use an HA build.

I've seen to many instances where a player with two bars who does 100k damage and has good mechanics is preferred over a player with an HA build who is in the same position.
This is unfair to the HA player because if they had the option to use two bars, they would likely prefer it. Unfortunately, they are excluded from the raid because the raid leader can see that they don't have the same level of DPS as a player with two bars.
And now, they will be the target of a nerf. Things are only going to get worse for all these players.

edit:
Many of you may not care about this, but I do. However, that doesn't mean that all of you are bad players or lacking in feelings. It simply implies that the majority of players in ESO prioritize self-pride over having fun.

Are these actions bad for the game? Yes, of course they are. But it's even worse to see that the best Zenimax can do is make life even harder for all these players.

FantasticFreddie

Tradewind wrote: »

Players who use HA builds are often excluded from raids simply because they play with two bars. Even if they have high DPS and a good knowledge of mechanics, they may still be overlooked because of their HA build.
Of course, as a raid leader, it's your right to choose the players you want to invite, and I've also excluded people from my raids for various reasons. However, I don't think I've ever excluded someone solely because they use an HA build.

I've seen to many instances where a player with two bars who does 100k damage and has good mechanics is preferred over a player with an HA build who is in the same position.
This is unfair to the HA player because if they had the option to use two bars, they would likely prefer it. Unfortunately, they are excluded from the raid because the raid leader can see that they don't have the same level of DPS as a player with two bars.
And now, they will be the target of a nerf. Things are only going to get worse for all these players.

edit:
Many of you may not care about this, but I do. However, that doesn't mean that all of you are bad players or lacking in feelings. It simply implies that the majority of players in ESO prioritize self-pride over having fun.

It's not as simple as you are making it out to be.

A friend of mine has an intermediate group that she is running, and she specifically does not allow 1 bar/HA builds.

Why?

Because she wants all players to develop similar skill levels and heavy attack builds are inherently easier

She can't let everyone do a HA build-- you still need support dds that can't make heavy attack or one bar builds work and healers and tanks generally need 2 bars to tick all the boxes for buffs and debuffs.

Since she can't let everyone get by on an easier build, she's decided that to keep things fair, everyone is held to the same standards of play-- which means everyone learns to weave, and keep up a rotation.
Does she have players that would hit higher numbers with a HA build? Yep. Is that the goal she has for this group? Nope.

Soarora

Tradewind wrote: »

Players who use HA builds are often excluded from raids simply because they play with two bars. Even if they have high DPS and a good knowledge of mechanics, they may still be overlooked because of their HA build.
Of course, as a raid leader, it's your right to choose the players you want to invite, and I've also excluded people from my raids for various reasons. However, I don't think I've ever excluded someone solely because they use an HA build.

I've seen to many instances where a player with two bars who does 100k damage and has good mechanics is preferred over a player with an HA build who is in the same position.
This is unfair to the HA player because if they had the option to use two bars, they would likely prefer it. Unfortunately, they are excluded from the raid because the raid leader can see that they don't have the same level of DPS as a player with two bars.
And now, they will be the target of a nerf. Things are only going to get worse for all these players.

edit:
Many of you may not care about this, but I do. However, that doesn't mean that all of you are bad players or lacking in feelings. It simply implies that the majority of players in ESO prioritize self-pride over having fun.

And I’ve seen too many instances of people HAVING to use a HA build to get into a group. And at the end of the day, a HA build is objectively easier than a traditional build and thus should not be able to complete the same content. If the build were just as difficult as a traditional build then I would have no problem with it.

Tradewind

Soarora wrote: »

And I’ve seen too many instances of people HAVING to use a HA build to get into a group. And at the end of the day, a HA build is objectively easier than a traditional build and thus should not be able to complete the same content. If the build were just as difficult as a traditional build then I would have no problem with it.

Should HA builds be able to make world records? Absolutely not.
Should they be able to complete any content? Yes, absolutely any content.

FantasticFreddie

Tradewind wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

And I’ve seen too many instances of people HAVING to use a HA build to get into a group. And at the end of the day, a HA build is objectively easier than a traditional build and thus should not be able to complete the same content. If the build were just as difficult as a traditional build then I would have no problem with it.

Should HA builds be able to make world records? Absolutely not.
Should they be able to complete any content? Yes, absolutely any content.

And they can so whyyyyyyyy are you so pressed about it ?

TimeWizard

Tradewind wrote: »

Should HA builds be able to make world records? Absolutely not.
Should they be able to complete any content? Yes, absolutely any content.

And just what content cant they complete currently? Groups have gotten PB using HA builds
The only thing I can currently think of that is NOT completable with HA builds is cloudrest and that is because of a mechanic built into the trial that requires barswapping

Tradewind

TimeWizard wrote: »

And just what content cant they complete currently? Groups have gotten PB using HA builds
The only thing I can currently think of that is NOT completable with HA builds is cloudrest and that is because of a mechanic built into the trial that requires barswapping

For now, I believe they can make anyone. After the nerf, we will have to wait and see.

TimeWizard wrote: »

[snip]

Why is it so hard to accept that some players can't improve further? You don't know my DPS with 2bars, and you don't even know how long I have been playing the game. Despite this, you believe that I don't want to improve?! Many players are unable to improve, and it's not a laughing matter.

[edited to remove quote]

VaranisArano

Tradewind wrote: »

I've seen to many instances where a player with two bars who does 100k damage and has good mechanics is preferred over a player with an HA build who is in the same position.

This is unfair to the HA player because if they had the option to use two bars, they would likely prefer it. Unfortunately, they are excluded from the raid because the raid leader can see that they don't have the same level of DPS as a player with two bars.

Wait, which is it?

Is the 2-bar player being preferred over the HA builds player simply because they have 2-bars...or because the HA player doesn't have the same level of DPS?

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Since she can't let everyone get by on an easier build, she's decided that to keep things fair, everyone is held to the same standards of play-- which means everyone learns to weave, and keep up a rotation.
Does she have players that would hit higher numbers with a HA build? Yep. Is that the goal she has for this group? Nope.

A perfect example of the human nature of group-building. Not every group will have the same purpose or goals, and a training group that's choosing to focus on teaching everyone to use 2-bar builds is a valid choice. She's the one putting in the time and effort to run her group; she gets to decide how she's going to do it.


However, there's also nuance to this conversation too, because by the nature of excluding HA builds, players do end up de facto excluding disabled players who use HA builds exclusively. When we talk about "fairness," there's the fairness of equality...and the fairness of equity.



Not every guild is interested in providing an equitable environment (and ZOS doesn't require guilds to outside of the bounds of the TOS), but it is worth considering that guilds who provide an "equal" environment by excluding HA builds don't necessary create an equitable environment.

Fortunately there are also a number of end game guilds who have taken more equitable approaches for players who benefit from that, as evidenced by the players who've spoken up here about their experiences as disabled players who do and don't use HA builds. So I'm not trying to knock your friend - I support her decision to run her group however best works for her. I just think the best solution for a nuanced situation is for players to seek out guilds that welcome their playstyles. Thankfully, there seem to be plenty of groups who are welcoming to HA players, whatever their reason for using it.

alcoraptor

Tradewind wrote: »

Create the perfect team for, let's say, vRG HM with 2 Tanks, 2 Healers, and 8 DDs.
Make one list, in order, of all the sets each player should use to cover the maximum possible buffs.

Why does it matter? If a trial lead or group requests certain setups, or excludes them, that's up to them.
There is nothing discriminatory or disrespectful about it - they have their preferred way of running the trial, and if it doesn't suit you then there are plenty of other groups.
In my experience (on both console and PC), if you can post a 80-90k parse you will have no trouble finding a team to run with.

However, if you're expecting to be able to join a vRG HM team by saying "No, you can't see my DPS, but I hit 90k, trust me" - you will probably not be accepted into the team, with good reason.

Tradewind wrote: »

Do you know how sellers sell vCR HM GH? One player starts the trial dead. Do you know why that's not important at all? Because no one needs them. The best they can offer is DPS, and these guys really don't need them.

This is not really relevant. A carry group is something different entirely, with the express purpose of running with 11 people.
Of course it can be done, but 99% of trial groups are not set up for, or capable of, this.

TimeWizard

Tradewind wrote: »

Why is it so hard to accept that some players can't improve further? You don't know my DPS with 2bars, and you don't even know how long I have been playing the game. Despite this, you believe that I don't want to improve?! Many players are unable to improve, and it's not a laughing matter.

Okay I'll humor you, why then can you not improve further?

I regularily play with arthritic people, deaf people, all sorts of disabled people. I myself am disabled, and my disabilities make it hard for me to progress as far as I would like in this game. But I can improve, everyone can improve, the ceiling might be lower for some people, but no one ever truly reaches their ceiling.

The only people I have ever met in this game who did not improve where people who were too lazy, too stubborn, or didnt care enough to improve.

I do not care if a given player improves their gameplay or not. UNLESS, that player tries to force their way of playing onto me, or tries to tell me I'm a bad person or toxic for always striving to improve.

tomofhyrule

Tradewind wrote: »

For now, I believe they can make anyone. After the nerf, we will have to wait and see.

Out of curiosity - have you tested the upcoming nerf on PTS yet, or are you just going off of what other people are saying?

I don't play that build myself (I play a tank in any sweatier content), but I have sorc-main friends who have moved to OakenSorc heavy builds since they got popular. But I know the upcoming nerfs aren't going to hit them much. Yes, Empower is going down to 70% instead of 80%, but a 10% difference isn't the end of the world. It seems like the biggest nerf that's incoming is to the Storm Master set, and my OakenSorc friends don't use that one (so I know it's not central to the build). They prefer Infallible Aether, which has the side benefit of applying Minor Vulnerability to the enemy - which is a debuff that doesn't have too many sources outside of a Warden support. I've also heard of others preferring different sets in that position as well. IA is also getting a change that it only works on monsters but nothing else, so it's not a nerf in PvE content.

It really seems like the incoming nerfs are targeting one set primarily, so Heavy Attack builds will still be viable for anyone willing to use a different set there.

Ratzkifal

Tradewind wrote: »

Zastrix wrote: »

[snip]

What "could change the story" is if Zenimax blocked all kinds of DPS sharing options. I agree that I need to see my own DPS.

@Tradewind No, that could not change the story. As I have told you before. There was a time where all of these "DPS sharing options" did not exist. I was playing during that time. We still did DPS tests by going into a dungeon. A tank and a healer from your future raid group to-be would go into that dungeon with you and they would count the seconds it takes to kill a boss of known durability, in my case that was Bloodspawn.
Nothing would change if ZOS disabled these. Nothing.
ZOS is not discriminating against HA builds despite nerfing them because they buffed them to the point that they can compete at all in the first place. Now ZOS thinks they buffed them a bit too much and now they are getting nerfed again a bit - not by much.
Maybe some groups don't like HA builds because they think the players using them are too inexperienced and thus aren't fit for their elite raiding group. But there are plenty of more open and beginner friendly raiding communities out there who do not turn away people who use HA builds.

You are claiming there is a systemic issue here but providing no evidence that the problem you describe is actually systemic.

[edited to remove quote]

Tradewind

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You are claiming there is a systemic issue here but providing no evidence that the problem you describe is actually systemic.

I may have mentioned this in another thread, or perhaps in this one.

• Please invite me to any content, and I will gladly join on PC-EU (HA Build with 90K Parse). By the way, I need all the achievement trials for this account.

So far, only one player has sent me a PM and invited me to join them. People don't invite me because I play with HA? Is it because I think differently or can't follow mechanics, or is it simply because they don't want to?
Let's say: they don't invite me for any reason, but it's not because of the HA build.

VaranisArano

Tradewind wrote: »

TimeWizard wrote: »

You are claiming there is a systemic issue here but providing no evidence that the problem you describe is actually systemic.

I may have mentioned this in another thread, or perhaps in this one.

• Please invite me to any content, and I will gladly join on PC-EU (HA Build with 90K Parse).

So far, only one player has sent me a PM and invited me to join them. People don't invite me because I play with HA? Is it because I think differently or can't follow mechanics, or is it simply because they don't want to?
Let's say: they don't invite me for any reason, but it's not because of the HA build.

That's your evidence of a systemic issue with HA players being excluded?

That you've only gotten one invite from the forums where not only is the active population tiny, but you've also been actively arguing that guilds shouldn't be allowed to measure your DPS?

Huh.

Sorry, I'm going to try to be helpful about this. I think you'd get more invites if you advertised in game or used guildfinder and let your DPS with an HA build speak for itself.

Maybe it's really true that the average HA build with a 90k parse can't find a group willing to take them to appropriate content.

Ratzkifal

Tradewind wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

You are claiming there is a systemic issue here but providing no evidence that the problem you describe is actually systemic.

I may have mentioned this in another thread, or perhaps in this one.

• Please invite me to any content, and I will gladly join on PC-EU (HA Build with 90K Parse). By the way, I need all the achievement trials for this account.

So far, only one player has sent me a PM and invited me to join them. People don't invite me because I play with HA? Is it because I think differently or can't follow mechanics, or is it simply because they don't want to?
Let's say: they don't invite me for any reason, but it's not because of the HA build.

Hey, I would invite you if I was any good at the game lol. But I am not. In fact I parted with my raiding guild because I could not be bothered to regrind several new healer sets that had become "meta" just after I got done grinding the last sets that were required and my tank character is a Templar, not the best kind of tank at that level of gameplay. I don't invite you because there is nothing to invite you for. You should go into the "looking for group" section of the forum perhaps or use the ingame guild finder to find a casual raiding guild that won't turn away HA DPS.
Lastly, I think making a thread like this one isn't leaving the best first impression with others so that might also factor into it.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have removed some insulting back and forth that was disruptive. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own. With that being said, please be sure to keep our Community Rules in mind when posting on our forums.

Thank you for your understanding.

Tradewind

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Lastly, I think making a thread like this one isn't leaving the best first impression with others so that might also factor into it.

Because I express my frustration about it in forums?
So, people hate me in-game because I can't parse enough with 2 bars, and they try mock me because I play with HA. And now I'm making enemies on the forum for expressing my opinion about something that I find to be absurdly bad for the game.

That's indeed a very difficult position for someone to be in.

edit:
Any healer available so that I can be cured of my bad mood/luck?

Soarora

Tradewind wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Lastly, I think making a thread like this one isn't leaving the best first impression with others so that might also factor into it.

Because I express my frustration about it in forums?
So, people hate me in-game because I can't parse enough with 2 bars, and they try mock me because I play with HA. And now I'm making enemies on the forum for expressing my opinion about something that I find to be absurdly bad for the game.

That's indeed a very difficult position for someone to be in.

edit:
Any healer available so that I can be cured of my bad mood/luck?

You’re not making enemies because of your opinion you’re making enemies because you’re a brick wall made out of a mix of brick, steel, stone, and other materials. No one should be mocked, most people have been, as established that is not a HA-only issue. And there are groups that take HA people no problem.

EnerG

The people that complain about dps sharing are the people who only do 8kdp/s anyway, just disable your own sharing, it's all entirely opt in.

Tradewind

Soarora wrote: »

You’re not making enemies because of your opinion you’re making enemies because you’re a brick wall made out of a mix of brick, steel, stone, and other materials. No one should be mocked, most people have been, as established that is not a HA-only issue. And there are groups that take HA people no problem.

Nah. But can I change my point of view in a general way because of all of this? No, I can't.
I am old enough to observe the world around me and think for myself.

ps: I don't hold a grudge against anyone for having a different opinion than mine... except for one or two players, about whom I didn't even know what to say due to their immense lack of sensitivity.

MachineGod

So all of this is about getting 1 invite to 1 guild to do trials... because you don't want any group to measure your DPS? And you wonder why people won't invite someone who, I hope you will forgive me, seems like they are after a free carry.

Your stories are wildly inconsistent which is not helping either and none of the arguments have any consistency or substance.

isadoraisacat

Katheriah wrote: »

isadoraisacat wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

"Deserve" has nothing to do with getting difficultachievements. Either you can, or you can't.

What does that even mean to you? Should all players have the same DPS? Why do you have perfect and non-perfect item sets if all those who use the perfect version don't deserve (according to your thoughts) to have more DPS?!

[snip]

[snip]

Look sometimes people can put an enormous amount of effort into something and still be bad at it. If you don't have the dps, if you miss the block and die, if you can't master the hardmode mechanics, it doesn't matter how hard you work or how much time you put into your build or how creative you are-- you don't get the achievement, period.

[snip]

Are you missing the point where multiple people state they used the shared information so it's possible to pinpoint what goes wrong (build, rotation, et cetera) and where OP claims he doesn't need anything like that?

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I didn’t miss anything. You are choosing to read into what I’m saying and interpret in a certain way.

I personally think it should be kept private unless permission is given by the player. But that’s just me.

I think that’s making the claim that all people have good intensions because they don’t.