What if Zenimax disables the shared DPS API?

FantasticFreddie

Tradewind wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

With the amount of times zos has had to come in here and nuke things I’m surprised they haven’t closed this.

Given how crucial and so good this function is for players, it's improbable that they'll choose to close it.
However, there is a high possibility of players being banned for expressing their opinions about how bad this function is. Let's hope that they receive at least one warning before any drastic action is taken.

You still haven't answered the most basic question: how do you form cohesive groups for vet content without the raid lead knowing anyone's dps?

Agenericname

This is10 pages long. I apologize if this has been asked and answered, I didnt read every single response.

Why not form your own trial group and run it how you would like? If DPS sharing is as detrimental as you are saying, it shouldnt be very difficult to find 11 other like-minded players.

FantasticFreddie

Agenericname wrote: »

This is10 pages long. I apologize if this has been asked and answered, I didnt read every single response.

Why not form your own trial group and run it how you would like? If DPS sharing is as detrimental as you are saying, it shouldnt be very difficult to find 11 other like-minded players.

Apparently he did and they couldn't clear vHRC hm and disbanded....

Treeshka

I did not read much after my reply to this post but lets say developers removed all possible official and non official methods of damage sharing or viewing from the game.

Under these circumstances lets say a random person applies to a raiding guild and links some of their previous achievements to the guild leader and asked if they can join or not.

I am sure raid leader will just group that player and go to Slimecraw boss in Wayrest Severs and will ask that player to kill it while raid leader taunts the boss, if they want to learn about that player's damage.

No matter what developers do players will always find a way to discriminate people and select amongst applicants. This can be damage, gear, character race, achievements, Champion Point count and some other stuff that they want to discriminate with. In the end they are also human and they have the sole charge in their group and they surely want to achieve something.

Tradewind

@Treeshka
How they Tracker DPS on Consoles? How they form groups?

@Agenericname
We just failed one vDungeon now. I'm not sure if it was because of low DPS or a fake Tank, but I do know that none of these players will be joining me for vHRC HM until they improve their DPS.

jaws343

Tradewind wrote: »

How they Tracker DPS on Consoles? How they form groups?

Quite a few of the guilds I have run in that had minimum requirements asked for screen shot of text DPS and a recording of the parse and gear equipped. Not cuts. Had to show gear immediately after parse ended or immediately before it started.

Barring any of that, as others have said, they'll just drag you to a world boss or dungeon boss and time your parse.

Ultimately, it is perfectly within any person's power in this game to form their own group and do dungeons without asking for any minimum expectations from other players. Rather than expecting other players to bow to your expectations of a group, do it yourself.

FantasticFreddie

Tradewind wrote: »

@Treeshka
How they Tracker DPS on Consoles? How they form groups?

@Agenericname
We just failed one vDungeon now. I'm not sure if it was because of low DPS or a fake Tank, but I do know that none of these players will be joining me for vHRC HM until they improve their DPS.

You can't make this stuff up

Tradewind

jaws343 wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

How they Tracker DPS on Consoles? How they form groups?

Quite a few of the guilds I have run in that had minimum requirements asked for screen shot of text DPS and a recording of the parse and gear equipped. Not cuts. Had to show gear immediately after parse ended or immediately before it started.

Barring any of that, as others have said,

they'll just drag you to a world boss or dungeon boss and time your parse.

Ultimately, it is perfectly within any person's power in this game to form their own group and do dungeons without asking for any minimum expectations from other players. Rather than expecting other players to bow to your expectations of a group, do it yourself.

And after all that work, the raid leader still excluded one HA player to bring a 2bar player with the same DPS?
Of course, the raid leader has every right to choose who to kick or bring along.
I am speaking in a general way and this includes any content. I am discussing the general actions of players! Because this happen in Craglorn to for any vTrial.

ps: And I have some players whom I will avoid in my vHRC HM trial. So, yes, I believe the Raid Leader has every right to choose who they take along.

fizl101

Tradewind wrote: »

@Treeshka
How they Tracker DPS on Consoles? How they form groups?

@Agenericname
We just failed one vDungeon now. I'm not sure if it was because of low DPS or a fake Tank, but I do know that none of these players will be joining me for vHRC HM until they improve their DPS.

We parse on the dummy and show screenshots or videos of the parse including gear, skills and CP setup. Before dummies a tank went with you to a boss in a dungeon and you soloed it with them holding it and you were timed to work out dps.

FantasticFreddie

OP the entire thread: You should NEVER discriminate against low DPS!!

OP when he actually wants to clear something: these dds are too low and can't come

Tradewind

fizl101 wrote: »

We parse on the dummy and show screenshots or videos of the parse including gear, skills and CP setup. Before dummies a tank went with you to a boss in a dungeon and you soloed it with them holding it and you were timed to work out dps.

I don't see any problem with giving them some hard work. Due to their heavy workload, they may not care whether you play with one bar or two bars, as long as you know the mechanics and can output enough DPS. Unless they are aiming for something very specific, such as Godslayer. Of course, the Raid Leader needs to know whom they will carry, and I agree with this. But generally speaking, DPS Sharing should not be available.

"Maybe" Not all of you have had the pleasure of doing trials with some of the best players. I have, and no one has ever excluded me for having too little or too much DPS or for having blue or yellow items. However, they may exclude someone very quickly for not following orders.
And every day I cry because I didn't take the opportunity to do vHRC HM with them.

Once again, DPS Sharing may helps good raid leaders. But do they really need it? No. And bad raid leaders (Players in general) use it maliciously.

Ragnarok0130

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

This is10 pages long. I apologize if this has been asked and answered, I didnt read every single response.

Why not form your own trial group and run it how you would like? If DPS sharing is as detrimental as you are saying, it shouldnt be very difficult to find 11 other like-minded players.

Apparently he did and they couldn't clear vHRC hm and disbanded....

And yet he keeps advocating for that which doesn’t work.



It’s almost like over the past 9 years trial groups realized that DPS requirements were needed and one deviates from established best practices at their own peril. I’ve seen groups form with his philosophy before and when a group starts clearing content they always want to progress to more difficult content and inevitably end up withDPS/set/class requirements as they tackle more difficult trials.

VaranisArano

Good raid leaders respect the time and effort of the players they are asking to cooperate for hours in order to meet a common goal.

In my PVP guild, my raid leaders enforced our clearly stated rules about faction loyalty, staying on Crown, following the RaId Leader's orders in battle, and wearing the sets that supported the group. They did this because when they didn't, our group had less fun. Players who agreed to those rules and then didn't follow them got booted because they clearly didn't want to play like we did. No hard feelings; we weren't the right guild for someone who wanted to skirmish while Crown was charging into the breach.

In any Trials guild, good raid leads respect their teammates' effort. Part of that is vetting new players' gear, parses, and experience. Part of that is continuing to evaluate performance during runs. There's nothing inherently malicious about that. If that's not someone's cup of tea, no hard feelings, that just won't be the right group for them.


If someone is using DPS sharing maliciously to mock and insult, ZOS has already said that's reportable. Report the jerks.

Tradewind

By the way, have any of you ever done a trial with some of the best raid leaders in this game and some pugs with low DPS? How many times have you seen them exclude someone? I bet the answer is 0, not even once. They simply disband the group or try to finish it, simple as that.

However, with a Graglorn leader who has access to DPS sharing, how many times have you seen them kick someone out because of low DPS, lack of knowledge of mechanics, or playing with a HA? Too many times.

[snip]


edit:
Only for @VaranisArano

Can you report someone if this happens in Discord groups? No. Like I said before, it's difficult for players to find trial groups in the game because there's no function for that, and we have to travel through all the maps and guilds, shouting and looking for players. In Discord, it's undoubtedly easier. But you may be kicked, rejected, or become the target of harassment. You know what I'm talking about, and we both know that Zenimax can't do much about this. But you understand what I'm saying. I know you understand that it's not easy to report this, and it will result in nothing if we do it.

[edited for baiting]

Zastrix

Tradewind wrote: »

By the way, have any of you ever done a trial with some of the best raid leaders in this game and some pugs with low DPS? How many times have you seen them exclude someone? I bet the answer is 0, not even once. They simply disband the group or try to finish it, simple as that.

I kicked so much players in pug runs because they couldn't follow mechanics (almost all HA players don't follow mechanics), nothing to do with DPS sharing as most of the pug groups don't share their DPS.

Tradewind wrote: »

[snip]

So basically everyone is wrong and only you, someone who is totally not entitled, is right... Yeah, right.

(And before you do say anything, I've lead multiple successful training runs for veteran trials and I have my own build on youtube where I explain every detail before you call me an 'toxic elitist' and a 'gatekeeper')

[edited quote]

VaranisArano

Tradewind wrote: »

edit:
Only for @VaranisArano

Can you report someone if this happens in Discord groups? No. Like I said before, it's difficult for players to find trial groups in the game because there's no function for that, and we have to travel through all the maps and guilds, shouting and looking for players. In Discord, it's undoubtedly easier. But you may be kicked, rejected, or become the target of harassment. You know what I'm talking about, and we both know that Zenimax can't do much about this. But you understand what I'm saying. I know you understand that it's not easy to report this, and it will result in nothing if we do it.

Can you report them on Discord? Discord doesn't allow bullying or harassment either.

Can you screenshot it in Discord and report it to ZOS because it is happening about an in-game activity? ZOS doesn't allow stream sniping and such, so at least it builds the case against that player.

You keep saying that ZOS won't do anything about it. Are you giving them the chance?

However, I am going to continue to point out the distinction between being kicked and not included in the group vs becoming the target of harassment. You know the difference, right?

A group can kick me because of low DPS/gear/experience.

A group can refuse me a group spot because of low DPS/gear/experience.

A group may not insult me because of low DPS/gear/experience. (Report to ZOS/Discord)

A group may not harass me because of low DPS/gear/experience. (Report to ZOS/Discord)

FantasticFreddie

VaranisArano wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

edit:
Only for @VaranisArano

Can you report someone if this happens in Discord groups? No. Like I said before, it's difficult for players to find trial groups in the game because there's no function for that, and we have to travel through all the maps and guilds, shouting and looking for players. In Discord, it's undoubtedly easier. But you may be kicked, rejected, or become the target of harassment. You know what I'm talking about, and we both know that Zenimax can't do much about this. But you understand what I'm saying. I know you understand that it's not easy to report this, and it will result in nothing if we do it.

Can you report them on Discord? Discord doesn't allow bullying or harassment either.

Can you screenshot it in Discord and report it to ZOS because it is happening about an in-game activity? ZOS doesn't allow stream sniping and such, so at least it builds the case against that player.

You keep saying that ZOS won't do anything about it. Are you giving them the chance?

However, I am going to continue to point out the distinction between being kicked and not included in the group vs becoming the target of harassment. You know the difference, right?

A group can kick me because of low DPS/gear/experience.

A group can refuse me a group spot because of low DPS/gear/experience.

A group may not insult me because of low DPS/gear/experience. (Report to ZOS/Discord)

A group may not harass me because of low DPS/gear/experience. (Report to ZOS/Discord)

OP seems to conflate not being included as bullying.... which begs the question, is he bullying those dps that failed the dungeons with him by not including them in his vHRC???

It's the hypocrisy for me. Gives off strong "Rules for thee but not for me" vibes.

Vaqual

I only skimmed over most but it all reads like this:

"I want to be part of a group and knowingly perform below the level that is expected of me, but I do not want people to know that"

Basically you are asking to be carried in the most dishonest way. Nothing against carries. There are a lot of helpful, patient and kind people. But if you compromise the run and waste everyones time that is just selfish. You can clearly communicate your limits, I am sure a lot of people are fine with that.

FantasticFreddie

Zastrix wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

By the way, have any of you ever done a trial with some of the best raid leaders in this game and some pugs with low DPS? How many times have you seen them exclude someone? I bet the answer is 0, not even once. They simply disband the group or try to finish it, simple as that.

I kicked so much players in pug runs because they couldn't follow mechanics (almost all HA players don't follow mechanics), nothing to do with DPS sharing as most of the pug groups don't share their DPS.

Tradewind wrote: »

[snip]

So basically everyone is wrong and only you, someone who is totally not entitled, is right... Yeah, right.

(And before you do say anything, I've lead multiple successful training runs for veteran trials and I have my own build on youtube where I explain every detail before you call me an 'toxic elitist' and a 'gatekeeper')

[edited quote]

I've been in a total of two runs ever, in 4 years, where someone was kicked mid run. Once, someone was drunk and disruptive, another time a dd had signed up for a run and it was clearly beyond him, and he got kicked when it became clear that he was incapable of following mechanics or doing any real damage. (TWINS. Need I say more....)
I've been in plenty of runs where people were passed over for one reason or another. I've been passed over myself for dds that do better damage or are more confident or mechanics, or for healers that have a more impressive pedigree. Never once have I thought that hiding my own limitations so people wouldn't know what I was able to do was the answer to getting on those rosters.

Katheriah

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Tradewind wrote: »

@Treeshka
How they Tracker DPS on Consoles? How they form groups?

@Agenericname
We just failed one vDungeon now. I'm not sure if it was because of low DPS or a fake Tank, but I do know that none of these players will be joining me for vHRC HM until they improve their DPS.

You can't make this stuff up

You'd think so

ZOS_Kraken

Greetings,

As this thread has continued to derail with baiting and flaming comments, despite our previous message, we have decided to close it down. When posting, we ask that forum members remain civil, constructive, and within the guidelines that we have in place. If there are any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding.