No DK nerfs?

Jammy420

Lets be honest, DK is MASSIVELY overperforming right now due to a plethora of reasons, including their absurd easy access to damage buffs.

Why on earth arent dk nerfs front and center? PvP might as well be called DK v DK atm, because it really feels like 95 percent of the playerbase are using DKs due to how broken they are.

i11ionward

DK is:
1. The best class tank passives (DK is the best with block casting).
2. Super strong ults (Corrosive Armor and Take Flight).
3. Excellent sustain (it is possible to restore resources when blocking).
4. Strong burst damage.
5. Strong AoE damage.
6. Strong dot damage.
7. Strong SS (Talons, Take Flight, Petrify).
8. Strong healing.
9. A large number of buffs in the class set. There is almost no need to use weaker general skills.
DC is literally the best in everything. The only drawback is melee, but the low cost of Take Flight allows you to completely ignore this drawback.
Go to the BG and check - 50% of all players will be on DK (at least on a high MMR), this state of affairs is not fun at all (and also note that 70% of all players wear maras, not fun, not fun...)

INM

It's funny how DK players were crying because they were nerfed last year, but a year later they are still topdogs.

Morvan

maybe it doesn't need nerfs, it's just everything else that needs buffs

sneakymitchell

Wuuffyy

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Bait is not: ‘simply stating facts, because clarity is not going to hurt on something when IT IS very clearly over performing’

olsborg

Abadd wrote: »

maybe it doesn't need nerfs, it's just everything else that needs buffs

Well if everything else is buffed to dk standards right now, nothing will die, ever. Id rather they nerf DK with a fat hammer and bring balance closer, DK has been dominating too long. Its due to corrosive, molten whip, all the dot pressure and their insane heals.

Urzigurumash

olsborg wrote: »

all the dot pressure.

And which DoT is giving the most pressure? Seems to me it's Burning. Burning often has the largest numbers on my recaps. (I've never worn Mara's).

Again I say, seems plausible it will be difficult to balance DK so long as Undeath + Vampire Flame Damage Taken penalty are in their present state. I go on about it here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/628489/dk-needs-a-13-damage-nerf#latest

(and I'm a DK main, 5k+ hours, 5 star, etc. etc.)

It's not the whole story, but it's a huge part. I think, I could be wrong.

On that point, besides the alternatives I list in my poll, we could also say add a strong DoT to some of the other status effects. The Minor Vuln on Shock and Minor Breach on Physical are nice but - DK enjoys 13% Vuln from Vampire and maximal Pen from Corrosive. That would be Power Creep yes but it could help the imbalance. A DoT on DIseased rather than the Direct Damage would probably help Necro.

Jammy420

i11ionward wrote: »

DK is:
1. The best class tank passives (DK is the best with block casting).
2. Super strong ults (Corrosive Armor and Take Flight).
3. Excellent sustain (it is possible to restore resources when blocking).
4. Strong burst damage.
5. Strong AoE damage.
6. Strong dot damage.
7. Strong SS (Talons, Take Flight, Petrify).
8. Strong healing.
9. A large number of buffs in the class set. There is almost no need to use weaker general skills.
DC is literally the best in everything. The only drawback is melee, but the low cost of Take Flight allows you to completely ignore this drawback.
Go to the BG and check - 50% of all players will be on DK (at least on a high MMR), this state of affairs is not fun at all (and also note that 70% of all players wear maras, not fun, not fun...)

Exactly, thats why it needs a nerf nuke. PvP during peak times is 99 percent dks using the same boring, uncreative, cookie cutter builds.

Abadd wrote: »

maybe it doesn't need nerfs, it's just everything else that needs buffs

Nah, thats not how it works. If one class is massively overperforming, it needs nerfing. If a few are slightly over performing, and some underperforming, then you can pull them up. But dk itself is in an unprescedented spot, nearly as bad as the immortal dk vamps of old.

Wuuffyy wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Bait is not: ‘simply stating facts, because clarity is not going to hurt on something when IT IS very clearly over performing’

They are obviously just trying to defend how op it is, because they probably are using said op build.

Luke_Flamesword

Problem is tank meta in PvP and dk as best tank class always will be better in that meta. You can of course nerf to the ground their damage but than it will AGAIN useless in PvE. I play dk as dd mostly in PvE and I don't want another serious nerf, because PvP is inbalanced.

Afterip

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Problem is tank meta in PvP and dk as best tank class always will be better in that meta. You can of course nerf to the ground their damage but than it will AGAIN useless in PvE. I play dk as dd mostly in PvE and I don't want another serious nerf, because PvP is inbalanced.

Dk is a tank who can also do incredible damage in pvp. Few days ago i was hitten by DK's crit wisp 11K!, even through my 2100 impen...

My blastbone NEVER HIT SO HARD AS DK CAN!

Elrond87

swings and roundabouts.. they were *** sometime ago i felt like only dk playing give it time another class will be too good

ketsparrowhawk

In pvp the only thing dk brings to the table is mele offensive pressure. Not much group support. Limited mobility. Limited ranged options. They have to be good at offense because it's the only thing they can do. If we wanted to give, say, Templar the same offensive potential we would need to take away some of their support capabilities. when it comes to offense imo DK should over perform somewhat.

ZDunlain

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

In pvp the only thing dk brings to the table is mele offensive pressure. Not much group support. Limited mobility. Limited ranged options. They have to be good at offense because it's the only thing they can do. If we wanted to give, say, Templar the same offensive potential we would need to take away some of their support capabilities. when it comes to offense imo DK should over perform somewhat.

DK provides more buffs than templars.

Limited mobility is not true, dk use race against time or mist form so they have the same mobility as a templar or necro.

Limited ranged options... yes, but templars have limited ranged options too.

Also a ultimate when used you become inmortal and literally deal oblivion damage to enemies...

Also dk have an entire toolkit for stuns and slows that templar doesnt have.

The only thing dk needs is an execute but dk have aaaaaaall other things, in tankyness they are the best and also in damage, not in healing but they are amazing providing buffs and utility.

Jammy420

Afterip wrote: »

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

Problem is tank meta in PvP and dk as best tank class always will be better in that meta. You can of course nerf to the ground their damage but than it will AGAIN useless in PvE. I play dk as dd mostly in PvE and I don't want another serious nerf, because PvP is inbalanced.

Dk is a tank who can also do incredible damage in pvp. Few days ago i was hitten by DK's crit wisp 11K!, even through my 2100 impen...

My blastbone NEVER HIT SO HARD AS DK CAN!

This one gets it. If a class excels in tanking, it should be ok in damage, if it is amazing at damage, it should only be ok at mitigation. I dont know how this is hard to understand by the balance team.

ZDunlain wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

In pvp the only thing dk brings to the table is mele offensive pressure. Not much group support. Limited mobility. Limited ranged options. They have to be good at offense because it's the only thing they can do. If we wanted to give, say, Templar the same offensive potential we would need to take away some of their support capabilities. when it comes to offense imo DK should over perform somewhat.

DK provides more buffs than templars.

Limited mobility is not true, dk use race against time or mist form so they have the same mobility as a templar or necro.

Limited ranged options... yes, but templars have limited ranged options too.

Also a ultimate when used you become inmortal and literally deal oblivion damage to enemies...

Also dk have an entire toolkit for stuns and slows that templar doesnt have.

The only thing dk needs is an execute but dk have aaaaaaall other things, in tankyness they are the best and also in damage, not in healing but they are amazing providing buffs and utility.

Well said, I was thinking " saywut " to myself when i read that.

TechMaybeHic

Elrond87 wrote: »

swings and roundabouts.. they were *** sometime ago i felt like only dk playing give it time another class will be too good

It's been a long time. Both DK and Templar were in a bad spot. They both got boosted to the top around the same time. Templar got torn down while DK kept going up.

ketsparrowhawk

Right but the Templar keeps your healthbar full. Even offensively spec'd plars are essentially healers on the back bar. DK support mostly takes the form of offense. If they don't have that then their usefulness in a team comp is minimal. Currently the only reason to bring a DK vs a Warden in group BG's is the DK has better killing power. Take that away then there is very little reason not to just replace them with a Warden.

Fair point re Mist Form. Everyone competes with Sorcs now.

Not "literal" oblivion damage.

sneakymitchell

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

In pvp the only thing dk brings to the table is mele offensive pressure. Not much group support. Limited mobility. Limited ranged options. They have to be good at offense because it's the only thing they can do. If we wanted to give, say, Templar the same offensive potential we would need to take away some of their support capabilities. when it comes to offense imo DK should over perform somewhat.

Only range is stone giant aka poop rocks. It ain’t much but it’s honest poop.

Dk substain relies on battle roar mainly other classes can have built in skill for good regen. Dks don’t have anything like that.

The damage burst is balanced cause any class can purge the dot pressure and just worry about burst damage. Which isn’t a lot compared to say warden with combo burst.

Dragon knights are not strong healer in groups. Reason why you don’t see a lot of dk healers cause they don’t have a lot of support just healing with small damage shield. The new arcanist class will be the new and better damage shield healer.

Mesite

Don't nerf.DK yet. I just created a DK. Give me a year.

Jammy420

Mesite wrote: »

Don't nerf.DK yet. I just created a DK. Give me a year.

No.

Adernath

Jammy420 wrote: »

Lets be honest, DK is MASSIVELY overperforming right now due to a plethora of reasons, including their absurd easy access to damage buffs.

Why on earth arent dk nerfs front and center? PvP might as well be called DK v DK atm, because it really feels like 95 percent of the playerbase are using DKs due to how broken they are.

Indeed. It is totally out of control.

The general tank meta is going on since years and, instead of adjusting mechanics, all we get are some weird new sets which do not address the root of the problem and turn out to be ineffective. I really don't understand how ZOS can keep this running since years already.

xylena_lazarow

They effectively deleted the Elder Dragon passive from PvP. DK no longer has a melee reach advantage and gained nothing in return for losing that advantage. It's much more significant than it first looks, especially when it comes to the faster paced competitive action. Meanwhile, NBs spamming 7m range Veiled Strike on you is gonna be FUN...

Stx

Veiled strike doesn’t hit as hard as whip and NBs don’t have the control or tankiness of DK so I’m not worried about that.

xylena_lazarow

Stx wrote: »

Veiled strike doesn’t hit as hard as whip and NBs don’t have the control or tankiness of DK so I’m not worried about that.

You must not be encountering strong NBs. Either way, I'll be giving my DK a break if I stick around for U38. It won't be unplayable or anything but without that little piece of unique class identity, I might as well go enjoy other classes.

Afterip

As necro i should be very lucky and skillfully if i want to kill low skilled DK in pvp. Good skilled dk just unkillable...
So my suggestion is to lower DK to the level of neco, so that they would not be so lonely at the bottom...

Ragnarok0130

Mesite wrote: »

Don't nerf.DK yet. I just created a DK. Give me a year.

Now you can create an Arcanist.

TechMaybeHic

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

Don't nerf.DK yet. I just created a DK. Give me a year.

Now you can create an Arcanist.

Probably your best bet. Although, I thought NB and DK would be nerfed this update to make way. That hasn't happened. Either has my Necro buff prediction The rest of my prediction of more slight nerf to warden, and meaningless perception buffs to Templar and Sorc are there

emilyhyoyeon

PVP is full of DKs, and in terms of PVE...

current top DDs on esologs for all the DLC trials:



overwhelmingly full of DKs (except vAS obviously) and has been so I think for the last year. This isn't even accounting for their presence as tanks being relevant since the beginning of time.

sneakymitchell

Don’t worry soon class identity will be a myth.

Adernath

Something is so wrong with this tank meta bs. Its not only DK, the class just is good in tank stuff and so its naturally on top. But its the general tank meta which prevents burst combos to go through without the need for (pro)active defense or dodge. People just eat ults and burst with their sets/builds like nothing happend, heal back to full hp with 1 button and press on the offensive.

The healing is out of control.

I am really tired of fighting against the meta every day. Yes the lag is gone, but this problem persists and makes end-game PvP not enjoable for me seriously.

My suggestion?

Overwork of the stats and sets. Main goal:
The PvP performance of a player will be mapped into one point in a triangle with defense, damage and healing as extreme spots. If you build around full defense for example, you sit in one corner and have very low healing and make very low damage. Same with other configurations.

Too many sets just mess up PvP. Make dedicated PvP sets, disable PvE sets and do not introduce more and more without proper balancing. Its so messy already.

Adernath

And please get some quality control team up for PvP with true experts. I have the feeling that no one really cares about what's going on every day.